Guild Wars 2

Hello.
Well i realy dont understand this, maybe someone can clear this out for me?
Guardian is a meele class, with much less mobility than warrior, (almost no mobility).
Lowest health pool in the game? how can a meele class that got such a low mobility have such a low health pool while having same toughness as warrior?
i just dont know what makes up for that low health pool.
If we had atleast 15k base health it would be bad yeah, but not that bad, but 11k..
the staff speed buff lasts too short unless you stack it up which means you have to stand at the same place.

Honestly i wouldnt be disappointed with the class at all, if we had more health and more mobility, its realy sad to always see your team getting ahead and youre behind so slow :/

Thanks for replying, im not trying to be rude, i just realy dont know what to say.

99% of the people on this forum will tell you the class is fine and learn to play.

My main is a 80 guardian. This is nothing new on the network news but let us play anyway. Level 80 guardian, full armor and exotic weapons. Ascended accessories. Enter WvW and check your health pool. What do you see, 13k and some change? Now go and kill some guards provided you have 250 or so realm rank to boost that bad boy up a bit getting it closer to 15k…

Now find your first empty character slow. Roll say a Thief. Do the starter quest for whatever race you play and port out to WvW. Now you have missing armor or white scraps on and whatever weapon you could find. Only one weapon more than likely. Now check out that health pool and we’ll talk.

You basically took a level one ambient character with nothing on but his or her birthday suit and it has more HP than your level 80 exotic armor and weapons ascended accessory wearing avatar.

Sad but true.

Get speed/traveler runes, hydromancy sigils, a GS and Sw, and JI. If not, then dont complain

Crapgame.6519:

99% of the people on this forum will tell you the class is fine and learn to play.

My main is a 80 guardian. This is nothing new on the network news but let us play anyway. Level 80 guardian, full armor and exotic weapons. Ascended accessories. Enter WvW and check your health pool. What do you see, 13k and some change? Now go and kill some guards provided you have 250 or so realm rank to boost that bad boy up a bit getting it closer to 15k…

Now find your first empty character slow. Roll say a Thief. Do the starter quest for whatever race you play and port out to WvW. Now you have missing armor or white scraps on and whatever weapon you could find. Only one weapon more than likely. Now check out that health pool and we’ll talk.

You basically took a level one ambient character with nothing on but his or her birthday suit and it has more HP than your level 80 exotic armor and weapons ascended accessory wearing avatar.

Sad but true.

Im talking about base health, i have myself 16k hp with some soldier.
Base health, not how much with full sentinel.
That doesnt change the fact the a class with much more mobility and same gear, got atleast 8k-9k more health.

Sometimes when I’m fighting a warrior I’m like “kitten , they have so much health :/”

The Guardian isn’t the real “Bunker” of the game. Warrior is the Berserker fighter and the Bunker tank at the same time. You can play a Warrior and obtain more or less the same healt regeneration of the Guardian, but obtain more self stability and Immunity skills.
Warrior > Guardian.

BUT

When you play a Guardian you must think that: You’re not playing a Bunker, you’re playing a Cleric. Yes, a F***ing Cleric class. Guardian is a defensive class that use magic skills to heal itself and support allies. Isn’t that a Cleric?
If you think about that, you can find the point: You’re not the main bunker, but you can play as the better tank of the game. But not whit your defence. You must play whit your Health Regeneration skills to survive and protect your allies!
If you make your build thinking that, you find that there’s many traits and skills that can grant you some kind of healing ability or health regeneration. And you have Aegis!
You can obtain Healt by: Virtue, Regeneration, AH/Meditations, Symbols+Rune of Dolyak.
The only problem is that the Warrior can do almost the same whit Healing Signet+trait adrenaline heal+ banner regen+ rune of dolyak.

But don’t think about that… no one want a Bunker Warrior in group, because they think that the Guardian is better.
Shhhhhh!!! ;-)

That’s the sad truth of the Guardian class.
And that’s because we can never be a dps or a condition damage class and the only build aviable for the Guardian is the Supporter (or Tank, if specialized in self heal ability).

Don’t forget our active defense though. All those blinds/aegis/protection/whatever effects are quite nice, and a lot are for the entire group!

We’re a strange thing, i’ll agree. A highly defensive profession with low health and low mobility. It’s like a riddle, it seems silly, but it’s not. We do have decent mobility in GS leap and the Sword/JI teleports. It’s no where near a warrior, but we’re not warriors are we? I of course would love to see more mobility, like if hammer2 leaped as far as GS3… ohh baby i’d be happy. But again, we are what we are, and warriors are what they are.

My question would be though, why did you choose a guardian if you’re worried more about the stuff that creates a solo kitten?

Maybe It’s just me, but I think of what 6k extra hp would give me in full soldier gear setups and I’m just thinking “god, I don’t think there’s anything in the game that could kill me with that”.

I look at warriors and my thought is simply “they’re too strait forward”. They may be powerful, but god I don’t have any fun playing one =/

ProRulez.5207:

Im talking about base health, i have myself 16k hp with some soldier.
Base health, not how much with full sentinel.
That doesnt change the fact the a class with much more mobility and same gear, got atleast 8k-9k more health.

I think you missed the point. What I said is that a level 1 thief with no armor up-scaled to 80 via WvW will have more HP than a lvl 80 Guardian…in exotics. So in other words, yes. Guardian’s have low health. But hey – you are supposed to regen health faster or have other abilities to reduce damage.

That has since been adjusted down in previous patches while other classes adjusted up.

Silv.9207:

The Guardian isn’t the real “Bunker” of the game. Warrior is the Berserker fighter and the Bunker tank at the same time. You can play a Warrior and obtain more or less the same healt regeneration of the Guardian, but obtain more self stability and Immunity skills.
Warrior > Guardian.

BUT

When you play a Guardian you must think that: You’re not playing a Bunker, you’re playing a Cleric. Yes, a F***ing Cleric class. Guardian is a defensive class that use magic skills to heal itself and support allies. Isn’t that a Cleric?
If you think about that, you can find the point: You’re not the main bunker, but you can play as the better tank of the game. But not whit your defence. You must play whit your Health Regeneration skills to survive and protect your allies!
If you make your build thinking that, you find that there’s many traits and skills that can grant you some kind of healing ability or health regeneration. And you have Aegis!
You can obtain Healt by: Virtue, Regeneration, AH/Meditations, Symbols+Rune of Dolyak.
The only problem is that the Warrior can do almost the same whit Healing Signet+trait adrenaline heal+ banner regen+ rune of dolyak.

But don’t think about that… no one want a Bunker Warrior in group, because they think that the Guardian is better.
Shhhhhh!!! ;-)

That’s the sad truth of the Guardian class.
And that’s because we can never be a dps or a condition damage class and the only build aviable for the Guardian is the Supporter (or Tank, if specialized in self heal ability).

But…wait for it….there is no official tank, healing, or dps meta in this game.

It was sold, and built (sorta anyway) has a trait to play game.

Silv.9207:

The Guardian isn’t the real “Bunker” of the game. Warrior is the Berserker fighter and the Bunker tank at the same time. You can play a Warrior and obtain more or less the same healt regeneration of the Guardian, but obtain more self stability and Immunity skills.
Warrior > Guardian.

BUT

When you play a Guardian you must think that: You’re not playing a Bunker, you’re playing a Cleric. Yes, a F***ing Cleric class. Guardian is a defensive class that use magic skills to heal itself and support allies. Isn’t that a Cleric?
If you think about that, you can find the point: You’re not the main bunker, but you can play as the better tank of the game. But not whit your defence. You must play whit your Health Regeneration skills to survive and protect your allies!
If you make your build thinking that, you find that there’s many traits and skills that can grant you some kind of healing ability or health regeneration. And you have Aegis!
You can obtain Healt by: Virtue, Regeneration, AH/Meditations, Symbols+Rune of Dolyak.
The only problem is that the Warrior can do almost the same whit Healing Signet+trait adrenaline heal+ banner regen+ rune of dolyak.

But don’t think about that… no one want a Bunker Warrior in group, because they think that the Guardian is better.
Shhhhhh!!! ;-)

That’s the sad truth of the Guardian class.
And that’s because we can never be a dps or a condition damage class and the only build aviable for the Guardian is the Supporter (or Tank, if specialized in self heal ability).

The big problem is that healing power is proven to be one of the worse stats out there, and almost anything except condi stats will be better than cleric.
if you go full cleric you will have very low health pool still, even with heals, you have cooldowns, eventualy you will die pretty quick compared to any warrior.

Im so anoyyed when fighting and the opposite enemy just managed to easily run away.

Also when speaking of support, meh every class got it’s skills to survive for himself, ye support guard will help here and there, but still, wish we had more options, maybe more mobility, not like warrior but atleast close.

Jerus.4350:

Don’t forget our active defense though. All those blinds/aegis/protection/whatever effects are quite nice, and a lot are for the entire group!

We’re a strange thing, i’ll agree. A highly defensive profession with low health and low mobility. It’s like a riddle, it seems silly, but it’s not. We do have decent mobility in GS leap and the Sword/JI teleports. It’s no where near a warrior, but we’re not warriors are we? I of course would love to see more mobility, like if hammer2 leaped as far as GS3… ohh baby i’d be happy. But again, we are what we are, and warriors are what they are.

My question would be though, why did you choose a guardian if you’re worried more about the stuff that creates a solo kitten?

Maybe It’s just me, but I think of what 6k extra hp would give me in full soldier gear setups and I’m just thinking “god, I don’t think there’s anything in the game that could kill me with that”.

I look at warriors and my thought is simply “they’re too strait forward”. They may be powerful, but god I don’t have any fun playing one =/

Well i tried to play warrior, i quit at lvl 6 and deleted it, i love playing guardian.
But cmon man, what is this… 10,800hp? whaaaaaattttttttt
this is just way too low, even 15k hp is low for melee with low mobility, but i would be fine with 15k base health.
What about being good guard for dungs? that means you need full berserker, but then you die too fast beacause of health pool, if you go supportive youre not wanted, in pve its all about dmg and not dying.

Ohh I understand the issue. It’s frustrating but at the same times REALLY fun, in that you gotta play to a higher level. Maybe It’s just because I’m a masochist when it comes to content, but that’s something I enjoy when I go zerk guard. I’m squishy so I gotta be perfect.

And a support guard isn’t bad in any way, it’s just not the meta and lots of people blindly follow the meta without looking at aspects that the meta ignores. The meta is Speed focused, and it ignores most everything else. It’s not about getting through dungeons easily, it’s about getting through them fast. My group runs a support guard, assuming everyone in the group is roughly the same damage, we end up losing 15% damage as a group, that’s a decent amount, but what we gain is the support that allows everyone to make a couple mistakes and still be ok, rather than one or two little screw ups ending in death.

So we trade some speed for less stress, it’s a worthwhile tradeoff to us =).

And just a FYI Thief and Ele is the same base HP, less defense though. All 3 are what I consider high risk, high reward. Guard has your utility that can make/break a fight (reflect walls, aegis, stability, etc) Thief has stealth, which that alone can cut a crazy amount of time off runs. And ele… FGS, Ice Bow, might stacking all on top of good personal damage. We all bring much more than just our damage.

Jerus.4350:

Ohh I understand the issue. It’s frustrating but at the same times REALLY fun, in that you gotta play to a higher level. Maybe It’s just because I’m a masochist when it comes to content, but that’s something I enjoy when I go zerk guard. I’m squishy so I gotta be perfect.

And a support guard isn’t bad in any way, it’s just not the meta and lots of people blindly follow the meta without looking at aspects that the meta ignores. The meta is Speed focused, and it ignores most everything else. It’s not about getting through dungeons easily, it’s about getting through them fast. My group runs a support guard, assuming everyone in the group is roughly the same damage, we end up losing 15% damage as a group, that’s a decent amount, but what we gain is the support that allows everyone to make a couple mistakes and still be ok, rather than one or two little screw ups ending in death.

So we trade some speed for less stress, it’s a worthwhile tradeoff to us =).

And just a FYI Thief and Ele is the same base HP, less defense though. All 3 are what I consider high risk, high reward. Guard has your utility that can make/break a fight (reflect walls, aegis, stability, etc) Thief has stealth, which that alone can cut a crazy amount of time off runs. And ele… FGS, Ice Bow, might stacking all on top of good personal damage. We all bring much more than just our damage.

Yeah well if you do a dungeon 10 times, you can easily make it perfect always later on when you learn boss mechanics.
I rather spend 10 mins doing a dungeon then 20 mins, beacause in same time i would of made 2 dungeons already.
But then, full zerker is a joke anywhere outside of pve.
About thief and ele, they have a reason to have low health pool, which is for thief the stealth that allows them to survive/regen, and the ele got can how some nice ranged attacks and mobility not bad.

I love reading these threads because it makes me feel pro for being so capable at playing this class. You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink and struggle to maintain minimal damage output.

The health pool argument is weak and revisiting it every month doesn’t make it more compelling without something changing ingame. The thing that makes up for the low health pool is … the player. Anet is throwing HP-deficient Guardians a bone tomorrow anyways.

ProRulez.5207:

Yeah well if you do a dungeon 10 times, you can easily make it perfect always later on when you learn boss mechanics.
I rather spend 10 mins doing a dungeon then 20 mins, beacause in same time i would of made 2 dungeons already.
But then, full zerker is a joke anywhere outside of pve.
About thief and ele, they have a reason to have low health pool, which is for thief the stealth that allows them to survive/regen, and the ele got can how some nice ranged attacks and mobility not bad.

What part of about 15% less damage makes you double the time? it actually runs very smoothly and only a minute or two longer than a good full zerk run, and the kicker though, is if we have slip ups in the zerk run, the runs we do with a support guard are actually faster! So /shrug it’s a more casual setup that works very well for our oganized team, my point was simply to give an example of how we use a support guard to show that they aren’t a complete loss. Of course when I PUG I always go zerk =), without the organization it’s simply easier to rely on good damage and good play and hope for the best.

We have Aegis, Regen, Projectile Walls, and then Blinds. Thief has Stealth, Blinds, and evades. I don’t see how that doesn’t match up pretty well. In fact I’m still impressed at the level of defense I can put in while in full zerk. All those blinds are quite nice, ending fights not having been hit with my aegis still up is always nice. Of course that’s not on bosses, but bosses usually are easier to dodge correctly, or avoid with aegis and what not. In the end we have what we NEED, of course I’d like more health, but we do have so much active defense that we can often come out unscathed. It just requires more skill to utilize active defense than passive defense, but that’s what makes it fun =)

Obtena.7952:

You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink

If they can’t be blinded with: VoJ, Sword2,and GS3
If we don’t have Aegis/blocks or it hits through the aegis of: VoC passive, VoC active, Retreat, mace3, and shelter
If we don’t have protection from: Symbol of Protection, Hold the Line, and Save yourself
If we can’t use LoS and the Warding lines
If we can’t use the projectile walls: Shield5, WoR, SotA, and Sanctuary
If we don’t or can’t dodge

Then we drop in a blink =b

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink

If they can’t be blinded with: VoJ, Sword2,and GS3
If we don’t have Aegis/blocks or it hits through the aegis of: VoC passive, VoC active, Retreat, mace3, and shelter
If we don’t have protection from: Symbol of Protection, Hold the Line, and Save yourself
If we can’t use LoS and the Warding lines
If we can’t use the projectile walls: Shield5, WoR, SotA, and Sanctuary
If we don’t or can’t dodge

Then we drop in a blink =b

It’s a good thing guardians can do all of that in the same build.

Amins.3710:

Jerus.4350:

Obtena.7952:

You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink

If they can’t be blinded with: VoJ, Sword2,and GS3
If we don’t have Aegis/blocks or it hits through the aegis of: VoC passive, VoC active, Retreat, mace3, and shelter
If we don’t have protection from: Symbol of Protection, Hold the Line, and Save yourself
If we can’t use LoS and the Warding lines
If we can’t use the projectile walls: Shield5, WoR, SotA, and Sanctuary
If we don’t or can’t dodge

Then we drop in a blink =b

It’s a good thing guardians can do all of that in the same build.

DPS build I’d have all the blinds, all but mace blocking, possibly all 3 protections depending, Lines of warding if needed i can simply swap a weapon, Projectile walls would be a skill swap for when needed.

Do you have it all available at the same time, naw, but you do have quite a bit of it available at any time.

And, to note, I forgot to add Focus 4 to blinds, and Focus5 to blocks, and Sword3 to projectile defense, doh, but they are all within the same weapon setup =).

Obtena.7952:

I love reading these threads because it makes me feel pro for being so capable at playing this class. You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink and struggle to maintain minimal damage output.

The health pool argument is weak and revisiting it every month doesn’t make it more compelling without something changing ingame. The thing that makes up for the low health pool is … the player. Anet is throwing HP-deficient Guardians a bone tomorrow anyways.

Do you think running with 13,000 HP is a bonus?

You have to trait for the 3k bonus – I’ll pass, thank you though or get it from killing guards.

Crapgame.6519:

Obtena.7952:

I love reading these threads because it makes me feel pro for being so capable at playing this class. You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink and struggle to maintain minimal damage output.

The health pool argument is weak and revisiting it every month doesn’t make it more compelling without something changing ingame. The thing that makes up for the low health pool is … the player. Anet is throwing HP-deficient Guardians a bone tomorrow anyways.

Do you think running with 13,000 HP is a bonus?

You have to trait for the 3k bonus – I’ll pass, thank you though or get it from killing guards.

No, I think it’s a challenge. That’s why I hate to see the threads wanting to dilute the gameplay of the class. The things typically asked for are not required to make this a better class. They are things that people want to bridge the gap into a simpler approach to the class.

Obtena.7952:

Crapgame.6519:

Obtena.7952:

I love reading these threads because it makes me feel pro for being so capable at playing this class. You would think the way Guardians are described, we drop in a blink and struggle to maintain minimal damage output.

The health pool argument is weak and revisiting it every month doesn’t make it more compelling without something changing ingame. The thing that makes up for the low health pool is … the player. Anet is throwing HP-deficient Guardians a bone tomorrow anyways.

Do you think running with 13,000 HP is a bonus?

You have to trait for the 3k bonus – I’ll pass, thank you though or get it from killing guards.

No, I think it’s a challenge. That’s why I hate to see the threads wanting to dilute the gameplay of the class. The things typically asked for are not required to make this a better class. They are things that people want to bridge the gap into a simpler approach to the class.

Well, at least we agree it is a challenge. And yes, that is what I’m currently running (at least prior to later tonight if/when I login). The DPS is there for sure but you really need to know when to pull out of a fight and re-engage or cut it and run.

I don’t agree though when you say simpler but that is just my opinion.