Guild Wars 2

Watching warriors like this with 22K HP (which is more than I’ve ever had on my Guardian, ever) wrastle around the battlefield with crazy mobility, sustain, AoE disables AND AoE burst, just makes me so sad.

I’ve put many hours into my Guardian, and nearly every build. But honestly have never seen battle effectiveness like this.

Don’t compare yourselves to others. For every amazing Warrior that does great things with the class is an equally terrible Warrior who has no success at all. They’re both having fun, as should you. The HP discrepancy between Guardian and Warrior is there for balance (at least, as much balance as can be managed with Warrior). It’s well known that we have the smallest health pool. That’s not an indicator of our effectiveness.

rolling a warrior now…

lol jk, if i ever play something else , i would try a gunslinger thief.

But i do agree that in big fights, warriors are offensive juggernauts. guardians are more like punching bags

Danson.1094:

Don’t compare yourselves to others. For every amazing Warrior that does great things with the class is an equally terrible Warrior who has no success at all. They’re both having fun, as should you. The HP discrepancy between Guardian and Warrior is there for balance (at least, as much balance as can be managed with Warrior). It’s well known that we have the smallest health pool. That’s not an indicator of our effectiveness.

Sorry if you misunderstood my post, this has absolutely nothing to do with fun. This has everything to do with effectiveness with a given class at a given skill level.

Do I think I’m as good or better than the warrior featured in this video? Definitely

Have I ever done so much damage, while disruption so many foes, AND staying alive without much support from allies? Not even close.

The problem is currently Guardians have to sacrifice everything for something.

1) Healway: Warrior-esque survivability, PITIFUL damage. Worse especially against condi as much of the damage is based off retaliation
2) Glasscannon/Meditation: Great burst and damage, but simply put, get destroyed by kiting. Better hope you don’t run into a condi engi or necro who have more tricks up their sleeve than you have skills on your toolbar.
3) AH + 15radi or something considered “balanced” : Decent damage, decent condi removal/sustain, bad at keeping targets in range. Okay at a few things, however great at nothing. Trivial when compared to a well-played hammer warrior

George Steel.1804:

Danson.1094:

Don’t compare yourselves to others. For every amazing Warrior that does great things with the class is an equally terrible Warrior who has no success at all. They’re both having fun, as should you. The HP discrepancy between Guardian and Warrior is there for balance (at least, as much balance as can be managed with Warrior). It’s well known that we have the smallest health pool. That’s not an indicator of our effectiveness.

Sorry if you misunderstood my post, this has absolutely nothing to do with fun. This has everything to do with effectiveness with a given class at a given skill level.

Do I think I’m as good or better than the warrior featured in this video? Definitely

Have I ever done so much damage, while disruption so many foes, AND staying alive without much support from allies? Not even close.

The problem is currently Guardians have to sacrifice everything for something.

1) Healway: Warrior-esque survivability, PITIFUL damage. Worse especially against condi as much of the damage is based off retaliation
2) Glasscannon/Meditation: Great burst and damage, but simply put, get destroyed by kiting. Better hope you don’t run into a condi engi or necro who have more tricks up their sleeve than you have skills on your toolbar.
3) AH + 15radi or something considered “balanced” : Decent damage, decent condi removal/sustain, bad at keeping targets in range. Okay at a few things, however great at nothing. Trivial when compared to a well-played hammer warrior

I suppose I can’t relate then. I play games for fun, not to gauge the relative effectiveness of a particular string of code.

Is for that i make a warrior and now i am very happy with it.

I love my guardian, but the warrior is far superior right now.

havent played my guardian extensively in a long time. Focusing on easy mode now.

Stealth thief, can literally run for hours without being killed
AOE condi necro, it just dont get any easier.
And ofc my war that runs the build displayed in the clip and a hybrid condi build. Whats not to like about over 500-600 regen and good damage.

Have my hopes on the 15th of october though and that we arent just condicleansers after that.

What I would really like to see is some objective person roll level 80 for each profession and give some rank of how the professions stack against each other. I get that warrior is better than Guardian. What else?

Obtena.7952:

What I would really like to see is some objective person roll level 80 for each profession and give some rank of how the professions stack against each other. I get that warrior is better than Guardian. What else?

The OP is being objective. And the comparison is fair, warrior and guardian are the two heavy armor classes, the two in your face fighting style classes.

At this time there isn’t much of a reason to pick a guardian over a warrior. Warrior does everything guardian does but much more easier, without having to sacrifice much to achieve it. Its not just George saying this, there are lots of complaints every where about them.

Through out the last several months Anet has basically given guardian’s strengths to warrior.

You misunderstood. I’m not accusing the OP of not being objective. I want to know about all the other classes with relation to Guardian.

Not really. That’s just the typical fotm warrior build that is going to get nerfed. Also there’s nothing amazing about that warrior. That build is very easy to play, and pretty much every warrior is running something like it because they know it’s broken.

I do like my warrior though. Two lvl 80 warriors and Champion Legionnaire before this cheese build came along. So I have a lot of experience with it, and the current meta warrior is op.

I love my Guardian more then anything, and I’ll continue to play it.

Obtena.7952:

You misunderstood. I’m not accusing the OP of not being objective. I want to know about all the other classes with relation to Guardian.

With the exception of Ele, it probably would be hard to do a comparison with the rest of the classes, since they play so differently.

man, 3 stuns on warrior hammer

none on the guard. they should consider giving us a stun on our hammer.

hammer 4 should have been aoe banish.

Harbinger.8637:

Not really. That’s just the typical fotm warrior build that is going to get nerfed.

Is not only that build.

Berserker warrior has a LOT OF DAMAGE, tons of damage. With 19k health and a lot of blocks by time (3 sec shield, 4 sec endure pain, 4 sec endure pain by traits) a lot of mobility to go in and out of combat and still great condi removal options…

Stunlock warrior with mace and shield has much more stuns than that build.

Condi bunkers warrior has 30k health with 3200 armor and a lot of condition damage with range and mobility and a lot of regeneration.

I can go on. Warrior right now has a lot of things, a LOT, CC, regen, great health pool, mobility, invuls, blocks, condi removal, softCC, low CD abilities, more base damage, offensive buff, speed, great self stability, range, support abilities (with horn/hammer banners build i give a lot of CC, condi removal and buff to my team).

Right now the guardian is a very limited class with few viable builds and need to sacrifice a lot to get something. I have both profession full equipped with a couple of builds each and overall war is better right now.

You still need a guardian in your team, is very important have a guardian in your team or lot of guardians in a zerg, but only for one role and job, for versatility or anything else, pick a warrior.

George Steel.1804:

Do I think I’m as good or better than the warrior featured in this video? Definitely

Have I ever done so much damage, while disruption so many foes, AND staying alive without much support from allies? Not even close.

Wait, so you want to do better like you currently do AND get all those things that you’re jealous of warriors for having? That’s like going on the warrior forums with a healway video and complaining that you don’t get tons of heals, aegis, protection, group stability, wall of reflection, etc.

Not all classes are the same. Duh. If you’re doing better, how can you possibly be complaining? Sorry, there is no uber-god class that has it all.

George Steel.1804:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2EXSxUBgDk

Watching warriors like this with 22K HP (which is more than I’ve ever had on my Guardian, ever) wrastle around the battlefield with crazy mobility, sustain, AoE disables AND AoE burst, just makes me so sad.

I’ve put many hours into my Guardian, and nearly every build. But honestly have never seen battle effectiveness like this.

Well I know his vids and he is a very good warrior indeed. But his healing, his words, also comes from the engi’s he plays with and also they work very well together.

urieldhynne.2743:

You still need a guardian in your team, is very important have a guardian in your team or lot of guardians in a zerg, but only for one role and job, for versatility or anything else, pick a warrior.

How can you say you need a guardian on your team and still be complaining?

Not to mention, what kind of versatility are you talking about? Everything positive about warriors is their control and damage. That’s one role. You make it sound like they can switch to some kind of effective support role or then to some ranged damage keep defense role, etc. which isn’t true. Warriors are just as pigeonholed as Guardians but you just like their role better so you’re jealous. Play a warrior then.

I have a level 80 of every profession in the game, here’s what I have learned. Each class has it’s own strengths and weaknesses, but in the comparison game between warrior and guardian, they are unique.
A guardian will never have the damage output (the damage co-efficient on warrior weapon skills is far higher than a guardian’s) or battlefield mobility a warrior has, on the other hand, a guardian has more flexibility. Both are more than capable of standing on the front lines, it honestly boils down to play style. Warrior is designed to be the offensive style, the beat stick of the party. He moves in, does insane damage, moves out or around, the offensive choice. Guardian, is a defensive role, once a guardian gets in the thick of combat, they are designed to withstand the abuse rather than avoid. Warrior is the sword, guardian is the shield. A sword, yes, has far more obvious offense capabilities and would seem to be the best choice on a battlefield. But never neglect a shield, it has a lot of capability that will surprise people.
Like I said, depends on play style, sword or shield. Even though I have all of the classes, I main a guardian, decent damage, good armor, and lots of condition cleansing and healing.

Obtena.7952:

What I would really like to see is some objective person roll level 80 for each profession and give some rank of how the professions stack against each other. I get that warrior is better than Guardian. What else?

I have an 80 of both classes.

Warrior:
-More damage.
-More mobility.
-Better able to adapt to ranged fights.
-Far superior ranged abilities.

Guardian:
-More defense.
-Overall greater survivability.
-More ways to counter attacks.
-Far superior group utility. Hands down. It’s not even close.

Notes:

Guardian has more protection against ranged attacks, but few ways to counter it, so warrior wins when it comes to ranged adaptability. The guardian “counter” is for him to throw up his ranged protection and then one of two things happens: his group kills whatever, or he himself closes the distance and hopefully doesn’t take too long doing so. Guardian is as a turtle. Warrior is as a guy who bobs and weaves at higher risk til he reaches his target and kills it. Or simply uses his limited defense to last through the volley, and returns a powerful volley of his own that is frequently underestimated. I guess you could sum it up as: guardian protects, warrior adapts and counters. In a group: guardian is the one that shields everyone. Warrior is the one that lives either way and doles out the punishment.

Warrior has counters but is somewhat a one-trick-pony in comparison to guardian. As a note, this refers to adaptability, not quantity – warrior technically has -more- counters, they just work extremely similarly and are more often single target. The guardian can also respond to a greater variety of complications. Detriments, DOTs, incoming damage, even enemy movement. Whereas the warrior counters are more literal mechanical counters and mostly amount to short-burst protection followed by “JUST KILL IT WITH DAMAGE!”

Warrior has more stuns, knockdowns, ETC. However, something to keep in mind is that these abilities are often referred to as “crowd control”. But I will tell you right now that while warrior has more stuns, knockdowns, etc, the guardian most definitely has a greater ability to control crowds. (see: staff, hammer.)

Warrior has “okay” survivability. One thing to keep in mind is that they are in the top tier for base health, alongside necromancer. The reason for this is that without a lot of health, they’re honestly very weak. If they were in the middle tier they’d be pretty weak. If they were in the bottom, they’d be completely shredded. But they DO have the ability to adapt in a pinch – in that they have short duration long cooldown abilities to stem the incoming damage and potentially turn the tide of a fight against an unwary opponent. Elite banner can work in a similar manner to turn fights around.

Warrior does have some group utility, but with the exception of the elite banner, they’re basically crappy/less controlled versions of guardian boons. All they “really” bring to a group is damage and the elite banner. The rest is just noticeably inferior versions of guardian stuff. And there’s a lot of terrible warriors who don’t even run the elite banner in groups. (note: I don’t use banners in groups usually, but ALWAYS ALWAYS use the elite banner).

Guardians are in THE LOWEST health tier. Alongside thief and elementalist. Despite this, they have the greatest survivability of all classes due to ample access to protection, healing in general, regens, blocks, etc etc etc. They also don’t honestly have ANY weak healing skills – even the SIGNET heal is powerful, which is an oddity among GW2 signets.

Guardian utilities are far superior to warriors in general. You can massively empower a group depending on your build and loadout. Guardians can massively improve group survivability through protection and regeneration and blocks. They can massively improve group damage as well from multiple sources – the biggest of which is the staff #4 buff. Pair that with a mesmer to double it up and the group becomes monstrous. There’s also more specific things like: access to multiple ways to block projectiles for the group (in my group support build, I can have three AE projectile blocks ready to go), line of warding to control adds so as to keep the group alive or simply concentrate fire…there’s just a lot. Way more than warrior. There’s the reason the warrior section is shorter.

I personally feel that the warrior elite banner is superior in a general sense to any of the guardian elite skills.

(continued in next post)

In a general sense, I wouldn’t say that any class is straight superior to the other overall. It just depends on what you want to do. As an example – between the two, I would prefer to take warrior to WVW, primarily due to their superior ranged abilities (people really really underestimate warrior ranged damage if you know what you’re doing!). When it comes to groups? Guardian wins there – they just bring so much more to the table and are extremely adaptable. Even within one build (my build focuses on personal defense, group defense, and crits) I can trade off between improved group damage, projectile counters, and overall healing/survivability by changing my weapons and my utility skills.

Hope this was helpful. There’s more to it, but I’m trying to keep it relatively short.

I’m not a fan of guardian empower since it’s only 12s. FGJ is 30s might stacks, and blasted fire fields give you 20s might stacks, and both classes can drop fire fields and then blast them though I’d say warriors have a more spammable one since it’s the longbow burst skill.

I have a guardian and a warrior. I enjoy using both as my main. Seeing that video, my opinion on the matter didn’t change. You can do that too if you wish with either warrior or guardian as long as you practice.

There is no magic formula which will make you a pk king. It’s all about practice, practice, and practice.

Zackie.8923:

man, 3 stuns on warrior hammer

none on the guard. they should consider giving us a stun on our hammer.

hammer 4 should have been aoe banish.

I would love love love love love this… And a little bit more range? 200? maybe? Anet

From an Spvp point of view. My warrior who has 50 wins is more effective than my Guardian with 500. Its just that much easier, more survivable and does more damage with having less put into it.

You would think I would be more effective on the guardian given the time I’ve spent on it. But the Warrior class is just that much better atm.

It reminds me of when I switched from a Witch Elf to a Warrior Priest. The WP was just 10x more effective in every way.

Sovereign.1093:

You can do that too if you wish with either warrior or guardian as long as you practice.

No amount of practice will make up for the fact that a guardian needs a very defensive trait build and 400+ healing power to equal the amount of passive healing that a warrior gets from just Healing Signet and Adrenal Health with 0 healing power.

There is no existing guardian build that combines the amount of damage and survivability that warrior has.

With that said, no, I’m not rethinking my decision, because I made my guardian specifically to support my group with stability, might and space control skills, which are still things a guardian does better than a warrior. But the fact that guardians still have a niche in team play does not mean that warriors’ current level of passive, low-investment survivability is balanced.

IDK no warrior (imo) is nearly as annoying as a full-wall Guardian. In conquest, those builds can kiss my kitten . I’ll deal with the warrior instead.

jportell.2197:

Zackie.8923:

man, 3 stuns on warrior hammer

none on the guard. they should consider giving us a stun on our hammer.

hammer 4 should have been aoe banish.

I would love love love love love this… And a little bit more range? 200? maybe? Anet

yea, in fact, every guard’s 2h weapon skill is AOE except the hammer 4.

aoe banish = good CC
single banish = trolol skill

on a side note, mighty blow should have a targetting circle too.

The severe lack of CC on a guardian is frustrating…like very frustrating.

Ohh, and I might add that the specific reason Guards were nerfed over the entire beta events was because we:
A) Had too much self healing
B) Had too much damage
C) Had too much health

This is exactly what warriors are right now, except they have 3 times as much hard CC and twice as much soft CC.

Stice.5204:

Sovereign.1093:

You can do that too if you wish with either warrior or guardian as long as you practice.

No amount of practice will make up for the fact that a guardian needs a very defensive trait build and 400+ healing power to equal the amount of passive healing that a warrior gets from just Healing Signet and Adrenal Health with 0 healing power.

There is no existing guardian build that combines the amount of damage and survivability that warrior has.

With that said, no, I’m not rethinking my decision, because I made my guardian specifically to support my group with stability, might and space control skills, which are still things a guardian does better than a warrior. But the fact that guardians still have a niche in team play does not mean that warriors’ current level of passive, low-investment survivability is balanced.

How do you guys always conveniently forget about protection, aegis, blind, etc. I like how you also ignore your heal skill. It’s too hard to press 6?

Yaki.9563:

Stice.5204:

Sovereign.1093:

You can do that too if you wish with either warrior or guardian as long as you practice.

No amount of practice will make up for the fact that a guardian needs a very defensive trait build and 400+ healing power to equal the amount of passive healing that a warrior gets from just Healing Signet and Adrenal Health with 0 healing power.

There is no existing guardian build that combines the amount of damage and survivability that warrior has.

With that said, no, I’m not rethinking my decision, because I made my guardian specifically to support my group with stability, might and space control skills, which are still things a guardian does better than a warrior. But the fact that guardians still have a niche in team play does not mean that warriors’ current level of passive, low-investment survivability is balanced.

How do you guys always conveniently forget about protection, aegis, blind, etc. I like how you also ignore your heal skill. It’s too hard to press 6?

Shelter is over rated.