Guild Wars 2

Not even same universe as defensive and dps buffs so many other class’s have got this year. I logged in just post this for you die hard guardians.

I might come back again in a few more months to check and see if its worth coming back to play my favorite class that’s been pigeonholed into one build due to the designers having one whole type of spvp map, conquest. Over a year later, conquest.

Other classes have multiple viable builds such as power or condi, condi or power bunker, support etc.

And these December changes to the guard show how out of touch the design is.

I doubt ill come back to play, probably just to check in. Ascended grind carrot, lowest tier of health, no soft CC for the most melee oriented class in the game, all because of conquest “hold the point”. As soon as another mode comes out that doesn’t require holding a point maybe the deficiencies in my favorite class will be addressed. By that time though some other “next gen” MMoS will be out, and I’m afraid gw2 will meet the statute of my limitations.

I don’t even recognize the names on this forum anymore. All the old timers are basically gone or rerolled.

Ill check back in, in a few more months. Given this years direction of the game, I don’t have hope.

Sad day.

I don’t know why you are complaining about dps, guards already do good dps and have strong condition removal + support, they are currently one of the strongest classes in pve for example in high level fractals even 2 guards are optimal. But yes I agree the release wasn’t exactly good

Go away, your like that drunk dude that leaves a voice mail on his ex-girlfriends phone about how much he doesn’t miss her.

Guards already have good dps OR strong condition removal + support. We can’t have both, and our middle ground is bad too. We either sacrifice too heavy on one side or the other.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Guards already have good dps OR strong condition removal + support. We can’t have both, and our middle ground is bad too. We either sacrifice too heavy on one side or the other.

Actually using 10,30,0,5,25 with sword focus I think you will find we can

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Guardians are fine, l2p.

I agree with you Proteous, I play so many other classes in PvP, its funny to see when you actually play them for any amount of time how much better they perform than Guards.

Painbow.6059:

I don’t know why you are complaining about dps, guards already do good dps and have strong condition removal + support, they are currently one of the strongest classes in pve for example in high level fractals even 2 guards are optimal. But yes I agree the release wasn’t exactly good

He is talking about PvP. Which he is correct. DPS guard in a high tier PvP match, is a handicap. Bunker guard still rocks, but that’s about all we can do at a high level. Which is why I still bunker mid hard

i wouldnt say that dps guards are bad in high pvp, I mean dps guards are really at good 1v1 (not so good at 1vx if they know what they doing). The problem is that in conquest a bunker guard outperforms a dps guard heavily (he brings only high damage but nearly no utillity). So going bunker is always the better choice for high pvp, as you want normally different classes in a team, so 1 guard is enough.

Gyler.8150:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

Guardians are fine, l2p.

Guardian shortcomings only present themselves in a PvP environment where the enemy is actually intelligent and can actively avoid your attacks or nullify your damage / ability to fight through various conditions or smart game-play.

PvEasy is just a DPS zerg, whether you are running dungeons or killing a dragon, it takes very little skill and doesn’t factor into a serious balancing discussion at all.

If a high survival class like guardian start to have high damage options then I will stop talking bad about warriors.

The only situation that Guardians are going to get great DPS options is the day our survival will get nerfed. And I prefer to keep the second.

SoulSin.5682:

If a high survival class like guardian start to have high damage options then I will stop talking bad about warriors.

The only situation that Guardians are going to get great DPS options is the day our survival will get nerfed. And I prefer to keep the second.

You see the problem here. Is that warriors can have survivability and great dps. We must choose.

Except Guardian defensive superiority is just short of a myth. Every offensive class is getting more and more defensive options, while guardian aren’t getting more offensive options. Several parts of the class are also plagued by outdated design and clunky usage.

Gyler I’m talkin spvp and www here, learn to read.

Poster above me knows. I called this months ago when some were calling it months before that. Check my post history.

Basically guards stagnated while everyone else got buffs for damage and survivability. Real buffs, not the laughable jokes Guardians have been given

In one sentence:

Dps Guardians will never be in a great place for tpvp or wvwvw until the devs stop pigeon holing guardians into holding a point – dps guards don’t hold points.

.. Now guards want to dps like a warrior. kitten this forum is hilarious, QQ over all place. I read all your comments and i see everything should be nerfed and buffed at the same time rotfl. Guardians want to be Warriors, Warriors want to be Guardians.. Jesus Christ ..

It’s not about wanting to be warriors. It’s a about wanting more viable builds for pvp and www. Bunker is basically it to be optimal.

What’s the only class without a powerful and effective condition-anything build? Mm hmm. And burst dps without any escape and low HP? K

Knox.3748:

.. Now guards want to dps like a warrior. kitten this forum is hilarious, QQ over all place. I read all your comments and i see everything should be nerfed and buffed at the same time rotfl. Guardians want to be Warriors, Warriors want to be Guardians.. Jesus Christ ..

We want more, when they made warriors have the same sustain as us or even better. So…. Why shouldn’t we get more offense?

Even better ? rotfl. And the problem is not only the Guardian or the Warrior, its the whole classes. Check all classes and you will see posts to QQ about anything. So is everything wrong? I have two opinions.

1. This forum is full of 14 years old who die alot and must come to foruns to rage.
2. Bad game design but you still play it.

I pick both.

Knox.3748:

Even better ? rotfl. And the problem is not only the Guardian or the Warrior, its the whole classes. Check all classes and you will see posts to QQ about anything. So is everything wrong? I have two opinions.

1. This forum is full of 14 years old who die alot and must come to foruns to rage.
2. Bad game design but you still play it.

I pick both.

You seem mad. I’m guessing you pick both because number 2 describes the situation and number 1 describes you?

Digressing. No I don’t die a lot. I bunker just fine. And the reason Guardian Bunkers are preferred over warrior is because of the boons and stability they give out. Not because they can outlast a warrior.

In PvP guardians are essentially buff bots, and dedicated rezers. I don’t hate doing it, since I enjoy winning and bunkering mid is a key role to fill. But it’d be nice if a damage guard was viable in this current(or any meta). This doesn’t include hot join, where you dps around playing against glory farmers or noobs.

DPS guard works in roaming WvW since 99% of WvW players are awful and you can go around 1vX’ing.

I feel like you don’t understand how things work in PvP, or you just like to argue. But guardians lack of soft CC, and long cooldowns on our few reliable pins makes our specs very situational.

Some people get it and some don’t. Those who don’t will do whatever they can to make others feel bad for raising real comprehensive concerns, such as offering hilariously bad false dichotomies and just tryin to stir stuff for people already upset.

There is a reason this forum has no new guides, no theory crafters anymore, and all those guide writers are playing other classes. Yes you still have players doing bunkers and then everything else for pve; what we don’t have are soft cc for dps specs or -any- condition builds in a game where conditions are the meta.

If guardians had soft cc deep in zeal or an actual condi bunker build, I probably wouldnt even be posting this and actually rather playing the game still.

If any class deserves condi bunker, its guardians with their low HP and need to skimp on dps stats for their bunker specs with 10.7k hp. Other bunkers cab condi it up and miss zero offensive power. For a guardian it’s too much of a trade to try and have damage while bunkering, thanks to retaliation and conquest.

God I hate conquest. My personal opinion is that the Devs refuse to do anything else because the know the design of the guardian falls short when there is nothing to capture. Guardians excel at making a (tiny) area around them extremely hostile. In pve this is fine mobs run straight into it. In conquest this fine, park that hostile area on the node. Everywhere else its terrible, more so for dps guards than bunkers.

And that dec “discussion” thread? Lol discussions are usually more than one post. And the Devs KNOW dps guards need some help but refuse to take the necessary steps to resolve it, namely, soft CC. So I refuse to play until its done and won’t even give them the “concurrent logins” they so desperately crave.

I know what Guardians lack and i also know what Warriors lack, since i main both Still, all i see is QQ on this forum. Eles QQ, Engis QQ, Necros QQ, Even thiefs and Mesmers QQ. Its amazing. Its probably one of the worst mmo foruns ever created where the top 10 topics on each classe starts by “We miss this” or “Why the nerf that” or even “Imma reroll my Guardian because i die alot with my Zerk Warrior”

Proteus.6320:

God I hate conquest. My personal opinion is that the Devs refuse to do anything else because the know the design of the guardian falls short when there is nothing to capture. Guardians excel at making a (tiny) area around them extremely hostile. In pve this is fine mobs run straight into it. In conquest this fine, park that hostile area on the node. Everywhere else its terrible, and not just for dps.

Not even anymore. Guardians are preferred for their team buffs through boons and resing. Bomb kit/Grenade engies wreck a guard 1v1 for making a point an extremely hostile environment. Guards a great mid bunkers in team fights. On their own, too many classes are hard counters. Engies, mesmers, and necros are tough matchups on points for a boon guardian bunker.

Keep in mind that a spvp guardian’s job is not to win those 1v1s but to survive and hold the point until a team member joins the fight.

fadeaway.2807:

Keep in mind that a spvp guardian’s job is not to win those 1v1s but to survive and hold the point until a team member joins the fight.

Which is hard as hell do to with all the crap the classes I mention can put on us if we stay in a little circle. Its just a hold out for 30 seconds so a teammate can come help. Certain classes I won’t die to. Others are just awful to counter bunker on a small node.

Sigh. And that’s due to their non stop buffs while guards remained stagnant. This game started out great and then just went downhill. Bait n switch on design, it wasnt a next gen MMO about fun instead of gear, and they did a 180 on direction.

My faith or trust evaporated months ago and this December patch is a confirmation that it was a valid feeling.

Good luck to those of you who carry the torch for the guardian.

Cat Has Ducks.1982:

guardians lack of soft CC, and long cooldowns on our few reliable pins makes our specs very situational.

This has always been the issue. I’ve been preaching this for well over a year.

unfortuantly, the people who design and balance have absolutely zero understanding of WHY a Melee ONLY class would need soft CC.

lawl.

Shoot. Amins you had to prove me wrong; I thought the old timers had already move on.

You’re right too.

“Oh crap its a guard, run.”

Said no one ever.

Proteus.6320:

Sigh. And that’s due to their non stop buffs while guards remained stagnant. This game started out great and then just went downhill. Bait n switch on design, it wasnt a next gen MMO about fun instead of gear, and they did a 180 on direction.

My faith or trust evaporated months ago and this December patch is a confirmation that it was a valid feeling.

Good luck to those of you who carry the torch for the guardian.

Yes. The game started with game having OP Guardians while, NECROS, WHO CAN ACTUALLY COMPLAIN, were just kitteny and bugged as hell. This post just proves my point. QQ.. QQ everywhere.

My main is a Guardian. I love him. I want to play him…but the Warriors just have so many of the tools that I want. So, so many of them. They’re shiny…they’re calling to me.

Can’t believe the Devs think that a 5% increase to sword damage is how they’re going to help our DPS. Want to know how to help our DPS? Give us HALF of the tools for being sticky that other melee builds have.

I don’t need Dogged March and Warrior’s Sprint and for all my attacks to cripple, I just want SOME of these tools. Instead? I get forced into using Runes of Vitality. Gee, thanks.

I’d say the message is loud and clear: if you want to dps in pvp don’t go guardian.

Sadly I don’t reroll characters, I reroll games.

Proteus.6320:

I’d say the message is loud and clear: if you want to dps in pvp don’t go guardian.

Sadly I don’t reroll characters, I reroll games.

:(

Cya then.

i been saying this for a while too. honest opinion. i really do think Guards, as a standalone class, are pretty decent. definitely lot of room for improvement, but we’re not in a bad place at all.

the problem, however lies within what Proteus is saying about how the Guard remains stagnant, due to us “being in a good place” according to the devs, yet other classes and the general direction, the meta , if you will, continues to change. (not saying all classes are fine and dandy as well either…)

Not sure what other pvp games you play, but when you’re talking high end, there will always be an optimal build, just be glad we’ve always remained an optimal class to bring. Higher up you get the more streamlined everything gets. If you’re wanting one class to be able to do everything at high end competitions, only way to make that fair is have only 1 class in the game. For lols i use to run around on my guard in zerker gear with sword focus and JI, pop focus 5 wait til the last second and JI to the person and see a ~9k crit while also using zealot’s defense. Of course with my 11k healthpool if another zerker/spiker sees me and I don’t see him I’m dead just as easily.

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

I think the only real solution at this point, if you think the guardian class is flawed and not tended properly, is to stop playing it. Arenanet have decided they do not want to seriously openly collaborate with the community on the class like they did with others. The community has said all there is to be said suggetionwise, and unlike other classes where people voiced against decisions and arenanet at very least replied " we think this works fine", we are left with nothing. This is common courtesy for the effort they asked us to bring to the CDI.
I am leaving behind a fully stacked guardian that was my main and only use for the last year. And lets see how things go from here.

Entioch.6594:

Go away, your like that drunk dude that leaves a voice mail on his ex-girlfriends phone about how much he doesn’t miss her.

lol spot on.

He’s not the only one sadly…it’s like 80% of the people on this forum, it’s like they think somebody should care about their little crybaby tantrums.

They always say stuff like “I stopped playing 5 months ago, I just check the forums every single day about 7 times a day because i think some of the people on the forums are funny lol”…….as if somebody actually believes that.

Azylir.9137:

Not sure what other pvp games you play, but when you’re talking high end, there will always be an optimal build, just be glad we’ve always remained an optimal class to bring. Higher up you get the more streamlined everything gets. If you’re wanting one class to be able to do everything at high end competitions, only way to make that fair is have only 1 class in the game. For lols i use to run around on my guard in zerker gear with sword focus and JI, pop focus 5 wait til the last second and JI to the person and see a ~9k crit while also using zealot’s defense. Of course with my 11k healthpool if another zerker/spiker sees me and I don’t see him I’m dead just as easily.

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

Thank you.

So, basically, they give us an entire patch of nothing but buffs after a year of treating us better than most other classes – and you complain that it wasn’t good enough.

Yes, we have problems. No, we don’t have it nearly as bad as quite a few other classes. In fact, most of the community is under the impression that we are overpowered as is.

Basically, I got nothing from this but whining and entitlement. It’s one thing to point out the areas of any class that can be improved and another entirely to whine and say you’ll quit the game if they don’t give your (already good) class a cookie.

If by treating us better then most other classes, you mean basically ignoring every issue the Guardian class has had since inception and tossing us a bug fix or two when other classes get a page full of changes, sure.

and Last I checked, the numbers also indicate Shattered Aegis and SoS were nerfs as well.

It isn’t about having it as bad as other classes, its about Guardian basically being ignored when it comes to actual balance changes, not to mention all the false promises made for this patch.

Idk about you, but i lurve my meditation guard.

Azylir.9137:

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

But would you agree that by telling the person to stop expecting to be viable in everything you should also tell every other class to not expect all of our abilities? You can’t have it both ways. If a player decides to play a full DPS based class then that same player can’t expect to have the same defensive capabilities has the Guardian. Yet they do.

Other classes have higher health pools AND defensive abilities that allow them to either get away or rest the fight. So what is the answer? There are 3 meta’s in the game. Throw out PvE because it doesn’t apply that leaves 2 which focus on PvP meta’s. There is no “formal” healing role in this game. Correct?

Now try and justify what the Guardian gives up in order to play a DPS role compared to other classes that can. And then look at the so called primary DPS classes and look at their survivability in contrast.

To the fella that said they don’t reroll and a few comments by others after words. I’m not going to put words into the fella’s mouth but if I had to guess it is more of a time / investment thing. Some people don’t really like to level up after one character or level alts so their main is it. Once it becomes no longer fun it is time to take a break or move on. I can understand that actually. The good news is that in GW2 we don’t have a monthly fee and can come back at any time.

Crapgame.6519:

Azylir.9137:

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

You can’t have it both ways. If a player decides to play a full DPS based class then that same player can’t expect to have the same defensive capabilities has the Guardian. Yet they do.

No they dont. You dont need an high health pool on guardian. This just shows its not a classe problem..

For you naysayers Ived logged in twice in the 3 months. I’ve posted in this thread only in 2 months. I don’t play anymore. You’re wrong. Nice chest thumping though.

For you other guardian white knights, I’m sure you’re bunkers are still asked for to be a boonbot for the real classes.

My point was about dps guardians, because ya know, arenanet says they want multiple viable builds for each class. Other classes have bunkers and dps or even support too, like warriors, guardians have one. I didn’t realize at first when I started playing this game it was WoW and I has chosen the tank class that couldn’t dps. But you white knights keep at it, defend it all you want. You’re missing the forest for the trees.

I merely wanted a dps option for wvwvw or spvp that didn’t need to sacrifice everything under the sun to get good dps- like other classes. It wasnt too much to ask, it still isn’t – clearly the Devs acknowledge this- why can’t you?

I’m voting against their design so far by acting the only way i can- stop paying and playing, express my discontent.

Knox.3748:

Crapgame.6519:

Azylir.9137:

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

You can’t have it both ways. If a player decides to play a full DPS based class then that same player can’t expect to have the same defensive capabilities has the Guardian. Yet they do.

No they dont. You dont need an high health pool on guardian. This just shows its not a classe problem..

Let me know how that DPS build of yours works out in WvW with a 15k health pool.

Crapgame.6519:

Knox.3748:

Crapgame.6519:

Azylir.9137:

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

You can’t have it both ways. If a player decides to play a full DPS based class then that same player can’t expect to have the same defensive capabilities has the Guardian. Yet they do.

No they dont. You dont need an high health pool on guardian. This just shows its not a classe problem..

Let me know how that DPS build of yours works out in WvW with a 15k health pool.

If you itemized for 300+ vitality to hit 15k HP, that’s not a dps build.

Knox.3748:

… So your problem is that you cant survive with 15k hp yet i see GREAT Guardians kittening on people on spvp or WvW with their guardian. Please… Guardians started the game as being better than other classes and now just because other classes are getting some good and deserved buffs you are crying. Well.. too bad for you. I still remember when Necro was full of bugs and Guardians were all happy here because their char “wasnt op” but was strong. rotfl. This forum is hilarious.

Oh so you anecdotal experience is worth more than others, and its okay to be an e-thug because your super objective data their is somehow better than ours? Why don’t you get off that high horse pal. That’s your opinion and its just as valid as others and you’re the one making it hilarious. We aren’t talking about where guardians were a year ago- were talking about after 4 months of lots of class changes guardians have been left behind. You may read the words but you don’t get it. You’re remembering when players were fresh, the game was new, and retaliation was OP. news flash. That was over a year ago.

Got any videos to back your anecdotal experiential claims? Oh cause you saw some beefy guardian stomping uplevel scrubs in wvvwv, guards are OP? K.

Proteus.6320:

I merely wanted a dps option for wvwvw or spvp that didn’t need to sacrifice everything under the sun to get good dps- like other classes. It wasnt too much to ask, it still isn’t – clearly the Devs acknowledge this- why can’t you?

So you want DPS without sacrifice other stats.. So if a warrior goes full bunker, wont he loose dps? Yes he will. So he will sacrifice something to get other thing. WOW AMAZING. Now dont come talking about warrior base HP etc because like i told you its not a Guardian problem. The problem is between the PC and the Chair. I still dont understand what you are crying about. I mean, Zerker Guardian has more sustain than Zerker Warrior… YOU DONT have the same DPS but YOU HAVE MORE SUSTAIN. Whatever, people wil cry and cry and this wont change. Not that it needs to change, only thing that should change in this game are people who can only look at their classes and blame anet and they dont look to the whole picture. Lets cry about Guardian having low hp when they have 15 skills of damage mitigation when necro started the game with almost 100 bugs.

Knox.3748:

… So your problem is that you cant survive with 15k hp yet i see GREAT Guardians kittening on people on spvp or WvW with their guardian. Please… Guardians started the game as being better than other classes and now just because other classes are getting some good and deserved buffs you are crying. Well.. too bad for you. I still remember when Necro was full of bugs and Guardians were all happy here because their char “wasnt op” but was strong. rotfl. This forum is hilarious.

Actually if you read what I said, I’m not crying. I simply said the player base can’t have it both ways. If a Guardian has to give something up to play a suggested DPS build, then so should the other classes. Simply put, there should not be a hybrid tax just because the Guardian can be more defensive by nature. Why? Because that defensive is given up when they trait to be DPS.

This isn’t unique to GW2 if you have been around the block or two in other similar games. Once the line starts to get blurred between classes, think homologous here please, the Guardian becomes the weakest class because other classes get what we at one time did the best. Does that make sense?

The 15k health pool is just a figure of speech or a number but the point still stands. Compare any of the other classes in their DPS spec, then look at their health, then look at their defensive abilities, and have this discussion. Shall we talk about Warriors, the Thief, or how about the Mesmer?

I agree this isn’t utopia and everyone is equal. However, this game does not have a primary healing roll for any class and therefore you trait to do something. That at least should be equal. If you have a hard time with that then no, we won’t be in agreement at all.

However, I’d still share a beverage with you. So no, I’m not made, uptight, or angry. Just find it odd the way the class works.

And when a warrior can spec dps he doesn’t need to Spec for any vitality. Tell me, how do all those “mitigation tools” you boast about (which warriors have many of as well) handle against a thief burst where you have less than a second to react? Only that helps is base HP.

Knox you’re clearly stuck in the past. With players like you, I’m glad I no longer play- have fun with the thread you hijacked.

Enjoy your pigeonholed boonbot so the other real classes can dps.

Proteus.6320:

Crapgame.6519:

Knox.3748:

Crapgame.6519:

Azylir.9137:

Stop expecting to be viable to do everything at the top, because if the games balanced that wont happen, and our classes initial design/natural disposition is defensive.

One thing I would like to see is the gap between base health pools slightly reduced.

You can’t have it both ways. If a player decides to play a full DPS based class then that same player can’t expect to have the same defensive capabilities has the Guardian. Yet they do.

No they dont. You dont need an high health pool on guardian. This just shows its not a classe problem..

Let me know how that DPS build of yours works out in WvW with a 15k health pool.

If you itemized for 300+ vitality to hit 15k HP, that’s not a dps build.

Just a number for reference. I think when I’m in my dps WvW set up I’m at 16.2k which isn’t that far above actually (exotics mind you).