Dragon Hunter, not worth taking?

Dragon Hunter, not worth taking?

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Posted by: Arnath.2319

Arnath.2319

I am messing with some build ideas with the calculator on Dulfy and i’m struggling to find a reason to take Dragon Hunter.

Weighing up the pros and cons i think we are at a disadvantage taking DH, the LongBow and 2/3 new Virtues are good, but traps are problematic to use, condi guard still isn’t viable, and the DH traits are extremely lacklustre compared to the great things our core traits offer.

Is DH really worth taking just for a viable range weapon? We have survived this long with only sceptre could we give the LongBow a miss?

I was super excited for the LongBow, i would love to use it, but unless they fix traps and make the traits worthwhile the Dragon Hunter is not worth taking in my opinion. Our core traits are just too good, and with the new changes coming in they will be even stronger.

HoT is still in beta so hopefully we can still get changes to make the DH a viable option (although considering shield is still broken i dont have high hopes). The main problem is the DH lacks synergy with our other trait lines and our core profession mechanics.

Thoughts?

(edited by Arnath.2319)

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Posted by: Vargamonth.2047

Vargamonth.2047

Are you talking about some specific content / game mode?

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I see the Longbow worth taking over Scepter. It’s versitility and cripple supports may be refreshing, especially for people who’ve always found Scepter frustrating to use.

I see Zerk guards using Blades or Light to replace Smite condition. It’s whether or not they want more sustains, or more burst damage.

I disagree that traps wont be useful. They’re passing around Slows like it’s candy! You’ll easily be able to place a trap in the heat of battle with all the cc that’s going around. I think at least 1 trap being utilized, whether than be an elite’s cc or a single trap burst utility.

aka FalseLights
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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I think the OP’s analysis is a little short. Traps has little to do with how good DH elite traits are, so struggling to find a reason to use DH because traps aren’t good makes little sense.

DH 2,6,8 is a no-brainer for PVE if you use a Hammer, and I think it’s clear that LB will have more value over Scepter if you demanda long range weapon in PVE build. Little utility is sacrificed to obtain this massive increase in damage. I’m going to wait for the theorycrafting because we don’t have alot of cooldown information.

The PVP options for DH are very good, even if you don’t use traps. In fact, I think the weakest trait is DH1. The trap synergy is weak, but this says more about the how good traps are vs. how good the DH trait is. I don’t think the LB was made to camp and that’s a smart approach.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

I think you’re going to get a lot of negative feedback with the title.. But I am inclined to agree, to some extent.

With our old trait lines being bolstered so much I’m having a hard time working out when I would want to take the DH line. Coming from a purely PvE perspective I see almost no reason that DH would be taken outside of a potential max DPS build (utilising Big Game Hunter) that sacrifices utility for the sake of DPS.

In my personal opinion the 2 minors are straight up BAD and wholly unappealing for PvE.

  • Defenders Dogma: Getting a free ‘5th attack’ proc on Virtue of Justice after a block is too niche, and while it may happen in PvE encounters, it won’t happen often and the result of it proccing will be underwhelming.
  • Pure of Sight: Just plain bad. This damage multiplier will never be active with PvE’s current state. Why not bake this into the Longbow AA?

The virtues sound fairly appealing, with the re-work of justice and courage being seemingly more powerful, with courage verging on OP if it retains its ‘all attacks’ blocking, rather than just projectiles. Not sure if it’s just me, or the stream, but I hate the animation for the justice spear-tether, the chains looked awful and the de-tethering animation was clunky and ugly (/rant).

I feel like the traits weren’t at all well thought out either, some of my favourite bad examples are:

  • Piercing Light: This feels like a trait thrown together to appeal to condi builds and to make it seem like traps weren’t shoehorned into the guardian class.
  • Hunter’s Determination: I am truly struggling to work out how a brief bit of stability on a ranged weapon skill is useful.. Even assuming you’re in the fray, and that CC is being thrown your way, it comes after a cast-time skill.. which could be interrupted. I don’t like this trait at all, maybe put 2 seconds of stab on cast, and 1 extra per target hit? Though that’s potentially too powerful.
  • Dulled Senses: This trait feels like it was implemented purely to synergise with the bad GM trait that knocks back.. as is the guard has minimal knockbacks, certainly not worth traiting for.
  • Hunter’s Fortification: 4 seconds of protection in a TINY radius on virtues.. and it’s a GM trait? This is god awful protection up time tied to important CD’s, it’s only going to trigger passively, nobody would ever pop a virtue for this. Maybe virtue of justice spam on trash mobs would have some nice synergy, but it’s so niche, and requires 2 trait lines.. not even worth humouring. If you want prot uptime, take a hammer, not a GM.
  • Heavy Light: Tiny knockback with a sizeable ICD that only applies to ONE weapon.. No thanks. What’s more it’s not even controllable, it could proc at a stupid time that serves you little to no benefit, passive rubbish at its finest.

There’s plenty more I could say about the traits, with numerous others being (IMHO) equally bad, but I won’t bore people.

The traps seem ok, though I doubt they will ever be seriously run outside of gimmick builds (also the maw animation looked awful and low-res, but that could be me again).

I’ve no issue with longbow and the skills associated with it, skill 5 could use a CD reduction, but my main beef is with the traits.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

I’ll wait to make a decision on it being “worthless” until it’s actually released. However, the general concept isn’t looking promising.

The longbow traits all focus on keeping enemies away from you at range. But guardians even with DH don’t have a lot of other abilities which take advantage of that range. The longbow will be easily kited at longer ranges. Further, Spear of Justice and Wings of Resolve run counter to the idea of keeping people at range.

Traps have always been lackluster on ranger, and they won’t be any different on DH. If you know the DH is using traps, you can trigger then with a dodge and not be effected. If the effect is over time, you trigger it and immediate leave the circle. They do provide area denial for a decap in conquest and maybe some extra AoE damage against brain-dead mobs in PvE, but nothing spectacular. They don’t pair well with longbow’s idea of keeping enemies at range either.

The virtue changes hamper the use of the DH specialization in a group support build, so even though Shield of Courage seems great for support, the other two are lacking, and you’re really just trading benefits on Courage rather than gaining them.

Taking either of the three parts (longbow, traps, virtue changes) independently would make for interesting builds. But together they seem to work against each other.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Guardian had a good time in the past…maybe it is time to let others shine….and accept to enter the gimmick club.

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

Guardian had a good time in the past…maybe it is time to let others shine….

Guardians have historically been in a good place, therefore we’re not allowed an exciting, well thought-out, elite spec?

That makes good coherent sense to me (/s).

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

Guardian had a good time in the past…maybe it is time to let others shine….

Guardians have historically been in a good place, therefore we’re not allowed an exciting, well thought-out, elite spec?

That makes good coherent sense to me (/s).

If all guardians are pushed to reroll it makes game life much longer…thus more benefit…

does it sound more coherent sense now ?

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

I’m with you on many of these.

Defenders Dogma is just bad. It has a 16/66% of doing absolutely nothing because you are already at full charge with your burning attack primed. And if you take the obvious complimentary trait Supreme Justice, then Defender’s Dogma becomes worse, failing to deliver any benefit 20% of the time. Actual anti-synergy.

It gives an average of 2.5 strokes worth of charge for Virtue of Justice (only 2 strokes with SJ) on a painfully rare trigger. Because it’s tied to ‘on block’, it synergizes with weapons for the in-close brawler (mace/focus) while having zero synergy with weapons more likely to be found in the hands of a “backline support” spec (scepter, shield and staff).

The only thing that may salvage it is if it at least charges and holds charge while Virtue of Justice is on cooldown. And even then… meh?

I’d MUCH rather see a minor trait that helps a wider range of weapons/tools and gives me more ways to blend the Dragonhunter’s heavy bow-emphasis with all our weapon choices (I am going to have SOMETHING not-a-bow in my other weapons slots…). Something like “All your auto-attacks are unblockable” would let me mix-and-match more effectively — a relentless combatant without increasing my maximum damage potential.

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

Excitement is subjective, to me it didn’t have the wow-factor that the mesmer or necro elite specs did.

I am not particularly interested in whether the spec addressed peoples desires and concerns, I personally find guardian to be fine, I enjoy using the scepter as a ranged weapon.

I’ve addressed in a far larger post, earlier in the thread, why I think the DH is poorly thought out, and it comes mostly down to traits. I don’t thematically dislike the idea, I don’t dislike the bow, and I won’t cry about the name.

I just don’t think the DH has traits on a similar level to the mesmer or necro traits, and traits are SO important.

(edited by Dom.4859)

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

Guardian had a good time in the past…maybe it is time to let others shine….

Guardians have historically been in a good place, therefore we’re not allowed an exciting, well thought-out, elite spec?

That makes good coherent sense to me (/s).

If all guardians are pushed to reroll it makes game life much longer…thus more benefit…

does it sound more coherent sense now ?

Even less, not sure if you’re trolling me now.

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Posted by: Kicast.1459

Kicast.1459

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

Why ?
Pvp wise traps have never worked for every prof…any idea why ?
Traits do not synergize pretty well
Conditions are still to restricted to tackle numerous cleansee
New Virtues are not bringing much to the table in regards with what guardian have to leave.

Meanwhile people are theorycrafting on reaper and chrono…why nothing on dh ?
maybe because there is close to nothing to theorycraft…
But I hope it is just me who do not see anything appealing on dh

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Those are very subjective questions and observations that don’t indicate DH isn’t an exciting well-thought out spec. Again, DH has delivered many of the things that people have been asking for in PVP for a long time. If the DH spec delivering those things isn’t good for PVP, then it just proves people don’t understand what the class needs in PVP.

Traps aren’t not ‘the DH spec", so who good they are has no indication of the Dh spec itself.
I think there is synergy in the traits; I don’t think a few singular instances proves there isn’t any.
Conditions subject to cleansing isn’t a ‘bad DH spec’ problem
The virtues thing is to be proven in play. Values will be critical to that assessment once they reach live.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

Excitement is subjective, to me it didn’t have the wow-factor that the mesmer or necro elite specs did.

Of course they aren’t; those classes needed MUCH more work to get them to whatever Anet’s baseline performance is. As indicated by Anet, Guardian was already quite close or right on top of where they wanted it. Granted, that does limit the excitement to people wanting something new but even then, Anet did deliver something new to us, though to more limited game areas.

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

Those are very subjective questions and observations that don’t indicate DH isn’t an exciting well-thought out spec. Again, DH has delivered many of the things that people have been asking for in PVP for a long time. If the DH spec delivering those things isn’t good for PVP, then it just proves people don’t understand what the class needs in PVP.

Traps aren’t not ‘the DH spec", so who good they are has no indication of the Dh spec itself.
I think there is synergy in the traits; I don’t think a few singular instances proves there isn’t any.
Conditions subject to cleansing isn’t a ‘bad DH spec’ problem
The virtues thing is to be proven in play. Values will be critical to that assessment once they reach live.

What good is addressing the issue of poor ranged weapons if the weapon itself is tied to a poor trait line?

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

Excitement is subjective, to me it didn’t have the wow-factor that the mesmer or necro elite specs did.

Of course they aren’t; those classes needed MUCH more work to get them to whatever Anet’s baseline performance is. As indicated by Anet, Guardian was already quite close or right on top of where they wanted it. Granted, that does limit the excitement to people wanting something new but even then, Anet did deliver something new to us, though to more limited game areas.

This argument is so lazy it infuriates me. I’m not asking for something better than what we currently have, I’m not asking for an elite spec that fixes anything, I want a reason to take DH outside of a ranged weapon. Interesting traits, traits that can oppose other traits we’re offered in different lines, an interesting theme.

As it stands, if I want to run a bow, I need to be tied into a traitline that is objectively worse than others. The flavour doesn’t do it for me, I want a tangible reason to drop 1/3 of my trait lines, and that reason right now is not there for me.

(edited by Dom.4859)

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

everything will resume how much damage class X do in zerker gear, if doesnt kill fast has players wants its worthless, but by other hand Anet promised healthy gameplay so lets see what they will define by heavy damage value.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Those are very subjective questions and observations that don’t indicate DH isn’t an exciting well-thought out spec. Again, DH has delivered many of the things that people have been asking for in PVP for a long time. If the DH spec delivering those things isn’t good for PVP, then it just proves people don’t understand what the class needs in PVP.

Traps aren’t not ‘the DH spec", so who good they are has no indication of the Dh spec itself.
I think there is synergy in the traits; I don’t think a few singular instances proves there isn’t any.
Conditions subject to cleansing isn’t a ‘bad DH spec’ problem
The virtues thing is to be proven in play. Values will be critical to that assessment once they reach live.

What good is addressing the issue of poor ranged weapons if the weapon itself is tied to a poor trait line?

I think it’s degree of awesome is not established yet so it’s pretty speculative to say its poor. The fact is that if you rock a LB, you are playing a specific kind of role in PVP and I think the traits decent enough in DH to support the LB properly. The LB itself appears to be a pretty good weapon though we don’t what it’s coefficients are on the skills. The other prof elite specs aren’t any different in that respect; they have a specific kind of play in mind if you choose them.

For me the only complaint is that necro spec appears to be formed around 3 themes which really has potential to give more than one style of play. DH does not appear to have that variety.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

I think it’s degree of awesome is not established yet so it’s pretty speculative to say its poor. The fact is that if you rock a LB, you are playing a specific kind of role in PVP and I think the traits decent enough in DH to support the LB properly. The LB itself appears to be a pretty good weapon though we don’t what it’s coefficients are on the skills. The other prof elite specs aren’t any different in that respect; they have a specific kind of play in mind if you choose them.

For me the only complaint is that necro spec appears to be formed around 3 themes which really has potential to give more than one style of play. DH does not appear to have that variety.

I was saying the traits are poor, which isn’t at all speculative as we have access to them now (even if they do go on to get tweaked). It is a shame that no such themes exist in the line, it seems loosely thrown together with a few synergies tacked on to make it look like thought was put in.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

As it stands, if I want to run a bow, I need to be tied into a traitline that is objectively worse than others. The flavour doesn’t do it for me, I want a tangible reason to drop 1/3 of my trait lines, and that reason right now is not there for me.

You have a point but I don’t think they deliberately wanted LB to replace Scepter. Scepter is indeed inferior in comparison. If people don’t like the traitline, they’ll spec in which ever tree they feel is fitting but they’ll be stuck with Scepter (or other weapon) instead.

The Specialization tree is meant to have its own specialized mix of traits. The only aspect I feel the tree misses is supporty-tank roles. But I guess the bow offers that “support” via cripple and #5. But that’s no excuse. I feel that grandmaster trait that offers Protection needs to have another effect of some sort.

As much as they want the specilization tree to be perfect, they can’t. Else they risk build diversity; everyone will feel they Need the tree. There will be a few builds that wont need the tree while other guardians will find the tree refreshing, to say the least.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
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(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I think it’s degree of awesome is not established yet so it’s pretty speculative to say its poor. The fact is that if you rock a LB, you are playing a specific kind of role in PVP and I think the traits decent enough in DH to support the LB properly. The LB itself appears to be a pretty good weapon though we don’t what it’s coefficients are on the skills. The other prof elite specs aren’t any different in that respect; they have a specific kind of play in mind if you choose them.

For me the only complaint is that necro spec appears to be formed around 3 themes which really has potential to give more than one style of play. DH does not appear to have that variety.

I was saying the traits are poor, which isn’t at all speculative as we have access to them now (even if they do go on to get tweaked). It is a shame that no such themes exist in the line, it seems loosely thrown together with a few synergies tacked on to make it look like thought was put in.

OK, that’s still pretty subjective if you ask me. I wouldn’t mind understanding why you think the traits are poor. Not all of them are great, but I can still see ways to use the line for a bunch of things. They do appear a little random to appeal to the new things we are getting but they aren’t haphazard. I’m eager to try a DH2,6,8 with LB/Hammer for instance.

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Posted by: Dom.4859

Dom.4859

OK, that’s still pretty subjective if you ask me. I wouldn’t mind understanding why you think the traits are poor. Not all of them are great, but I can still see ways to use the line for a bunch of things. They do appear a little random to appeal to the new things we are getting but they aren’t haphazard. I’m eager to try a DH2,6,8 with LB/Hammer for instance.

I’ve explained earlier in this thread some of the traits I feel are weak, feel free to read what I’ve said there.

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Posted by: Manimarco Devil.1790

Manimarco Devil.1790

All these arguments seem to be from a pve perspective which is confounding when you can literally play some garbage like mace and get through stuff in pve. A lot of these traits and skills are balanced around pvp implications, they have rarely ever balanced around pve.

And as to the point about traps, pvp guardians don’t particularly care. We wanted a long range weapon and that is what we got, the traps may or may not work we don’t know yet. In fact, I’m not sure why you’d even be complaining from a pve perspective since the elite specializations are not supposed to be power creep(auto required) and you did get a trap that can give max vulnerability stacks.

Battlelord Taeres

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

I don’t think all these arguments are PVE perspective. I know my own are certainly not. I’m very serious when I’m suggesting that a DH2,6,8 with LB/Hammer may be a very potent combination. Traps are situational, but I think they have merit depending on what a person wants to accomplish. Again, to take my own example, there are two traps that would work with the above build.

From a PVE perspective, I regard the DH as a nice alternative though admittedly, I find less of the traits useful for PVE, especially Defender’s Dogma (because I don’t think I fully understand how Justice ‘charges’). I can already anticipate trying DH2,6,9 for PVE, but I don’t know if it will be better than any of the lines we have now without some real theorycrafting. It’s hard to ignore the potential to deal an additional 25% damage in PVE that you can get from DH, even if some traits are not useful in PVE.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

OK, that’s still pretty subjective if you ask me. I wouldn’t mind understanding why you think the traits are poor. Not all of them are great, but I can still see ways to use the line for a bunch of things. They do appear a little random to appeal to the new things we are getting but they aren’t haphazard. I’m eager to try a DH2,6,8 with LB/Hammer for instance.

I’ve explained earlier in this thread some of the traits I feel are weak, feel free to read what I’ve said there.

OK I’ve had a look. While I have to agree with some of the traits you’ve pointed out, I think it’s important to see how some of you list will work with the other traits/skills we have. Analyzing them by themselves does not give them all the full appreciation for what they can do. Some examples with your text:

Pure of Sight: Just plain bad. This damage multiplier will never be active with PvE’s current state. Why not bake this into the Longbow AA?

How will this never be active? It’s up to the Guardian to ensure they set their range to the mob they attack in PVE. This could be active a significant amount of time. The main issue I have with this trait isn’t that it wouldn’t be active, it’s that it’s range doesn’t overlap the knockback range on DH 8.

Dulled Senses: This trait feels like it was implemented purely to synergise with the bad GM trait that knocks back.. as is the guard has minimal knockbacks, certainly not worth traiting for.

While it has limited use, this trait would be critical to the LB/Hammer build I outline above. Yes, while I do agree it was formulated specifically for a skill we have limited access to, it’s a very strong one.

Heavy Light: Tiny knockback with a sizeable ICD that only applies to ONE weapon.. No thanks. What’s more it’s not even controllable, it could proc at a stupid time that serves you little to no benefit, passive rubbish at its finest.

I think this trait is part of the whole idea on how Anet envisions a LB guardian will operate; effective LB users will not likely camp this weapon. I feel that the ranges should be adjusted to be bigger (at the detriment of my build suggestion no less). A knockback every 7 seconds can be very powerful as it also interrupts. I think that’s more than appropriate; any more would be ridiculous IMO.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

Guardian had a good time in the past…maybe it is time to let others shine….and accept to enter the gimmick club.

Only that’d it’d shine brighter in PVP and WvW now…

Mediation’s Guardian’s only weakness is always the lack of snaring ability and good range option, that some classes can toy around Guardian while kiting. With the new LB, opponents can no longer do that because the damage is at least 70% of ranger’s LB, with good utilities, AOE, snaring, and CC.

Also DH has alot of good dps traits for PVE contents.

(edited by Toxsa.2701)

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Posted by: Arrk.4102

Arrk.4102

especially Defender’s Dogma (because I don’t think I fully understand how Justice ‘charges’).

Currently the Virtue of Justice and Spear of Justice work like this:
Every 5 attacks your next attack applies Burning. With Defender’s Dogma after you block, the “charge” of attacks, I.E. the number of attacks before the next one burns becomes zero, so if you get 5 attacks, burn someone, and then block, you will instantly apply another stack of burning.

On topic:
The trait’s don’t really work together with what we already have, so the synergy is barely there. To get a good use out of these, we will have to modify our builds extensively, which is not how synergy works. I can see some situational uses but they are few.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

especially Defender’s Dogma (because I don’t think I fully understand how Justice ‘charges’).

Currently the Virtue of Justice and Spear of Justice work like this:
Every 5 attacks your next attack applies Burning. With Defender’s Dogma after you block, the “charge” of attacks, I.E. the number of attacks before the next one burns becomes zero, so if you get 5 attacks, burn someone, and then block, you will instantly apply another stack of burning.

On topic:
The trait’s don’t really work together with what we already have, so the synergy is barely there. To get a good use out of these, we will have to modify our builds extensively, which is not how synergy works. I can see some situational uses but they are few.

I believe they added it for a reason. Since 500 damage burns (according to the stream) was quite low, they added several forms of burn applications. In tpvp you’re hitting multiple foes so it’s not going to matter much but for 1v1/2v2 small skirmish fights, I see the extra procs making a world of difference. Especially since it doesn’t have a cd. Place a symbol over you, block with shelter and you’re doing double burn procs.

I think they truly did wanted condi guard to be viable, in one form or another. Whether it’s meta zerk or condi i’m estatic all the same!

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Posted by: google.3709

google.3709

was I the only person who saw those 4.5k Burning ticks?

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Posted by: Arrk.4102

Arrk.4102

Numbers are a subject to change. Was reapeated every 2 minutes.

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

Yeah, they could get bigger. :p

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Don’t have the energy to go into long in depth posts like I usually do, but wanted to voice I agree with Dom and Arnath on this one. Besides the “wow it’s new” factor everyone else is raving about, I’m not mechanically seeing the advantages.

It will be effective and probably entertaining enough to play, but we will have to see it for ourselves in the long run. Right now my opinion is low though.

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

TBH looking at the skill changes in the other trait lines i much prefer other builds i can make without taking Dragonhunter right now. Of course everything could/will change before release regarding balancing etc.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: DerWish.3125

DerWish.3125

I am more excited for the non-LB medi hammer + S/F DH with 4 immobilizes.

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Posted by: Vizardlorde.8243

Vizardlorde.8243

I think you’re going to get a lot of negative feedback with the title.. But I am inclined to agree, to some extent.

With our old trait lines being bolstered so much I’m having a hard time working out when I would want to take the DH line. Coming from a purely PvE perspective I see almost no reason that DH would be taken outside of a potential max DPS build (utilising Big Game Hunter) that sacrifices utility for the sake of DPS.

In my personal opinion the 2 minors are straight up BAD and wholly unappealing for PvE.

  • Defenders Dogma: Getting a free ‘5th attack’ proc on Virtue of Justice after a block is too niche, and while it may happen in PvE encounters, it won’t happen often and the result of it proccing will be underwhelming.
  • Pure of Sight: Just plain bad. This damage multiplier will never be active with PvE’s current state. Why not bake this into the Longbow AA?

The virtues sound fairly appealing, with the re-work of justice and courage being seemingly more powerful, with courage verging on OP if it retains its ‘all attacks’ blocking, rather than just projectiles. Not sure if it’s just me, or the stream, but I hate the animation for the justice spear-tether, the chains looked awful and the de-tethering animation was clunky and ugly (/rant).

I feel like the traits weren’t at all well thought out either, some of my favourite bad examples are:

  • Piercing Light: This feels like a trait thrown together to appeal to condi builds and to make it seem like traps weren’t shoehorned into the guardian class.
  • Hunter’s Determination: I am truly struggling to work out how a brief bit of stability on a ranged weapon skill is useful.. Even assuming you’re in the fray, and that CC is being thrown your way, it comes after a cast-time skill.. which could be interrupted. I don’t like this trait at all, maybe put 2 seconds of stab on cast, and 1 extra per target hit? Though that’s potentially too powerful.
  • Dulled Senses: This trait feels like it was implemented purely to synergise with the bad GM trait that knocks back.. as is the guard has minimal knockbacks, certainly not worth traiting for.
  • Hunter’s Fortification: 4 seconds of protection in a TINY radius on virtues.. and it’s a GM trait? This is god awful protection up time tied to important CD’s, it’s only going to trigger passively, nobody would ever pop a virtue for this. Maybe virtue of justice spam on trash mobs would have some nice synergy, but it’s so niche, and requires 2 trait lines.. not even worth humouring. If you want prot uptime, take a hammer, not a GM.
  • Heavy Light: Tiny knockback with a sizeable ICD that only applies to ONE weapon.. No thanks. What’s more it’s not even controllable, it could proc at a stupid time that serves you little to no benefit, passive rubbish at its finest.

There’s plenty more I could say about the traits, with numerous others being (IMHO) equally bad, but I won’t bore people.

The traps seem ok, though I doubt they will ever be seriously run outside of gimmick builds (also the maw animation looked awful and low-res, but that could be me again).

I’ve no issue with longbow and the skills associated with it, skill 5 could use a CD reduction, but my main beef is with the traits.

I felt the same way about dulled senses till i found out wards and sanctuary are knockbacks instead of knockdowns

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Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

I wanted to categorize both Defender’s Dogma and Purity of Body to be incredibly niche and discourages you from utilizing the active portion of your virtue’s.

Edit: Zealous scepter also falls into this category of discouraging the use of virtue’s…why?

(edited by Arken.3725)

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Posted by: rajule.8054

rajule.8054

I wanted to categorize both Defender’s Dogma and Purity of Body to be incredibly niche and discourages you from utilizing the active portion of your virtue’s.

Edit: Zealous scepter also falls into this category of discouraging the use of virtue’s…why?

I think their idea with these types of traits is use in conjunction with the new courage active effect, get multiple blocks and quickly stack on burning or might.

Yes you will want to hesitate using justice when you’re trying to set this up, but you would throw down some aoe or do a big multi hit attack right after popping VoC get you burn and/or might stacks then maybe pop justice or a little extra burn.

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Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

I see your point but don’t you think that should maybe be baked into the virtue and not tied to a trait?

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Posted by: rajule.8054

rajule.8054

I don’t think it should be baseline any more than any other nice trait you’d rather have for free.

you could say that about any trait. “it’s good, but it should be baseline.. cause then I can trait for something else and have even more.”

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Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

That’s fair. I was just never a fan of traits that discourage the use of a class mechanic.

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Posted by: rajule.8054

rajule.8054

I suppose in this case its purely subjective. you may see it as deterring use of the virtues. Where as I see it more as incentive to use them differently or change when you use them in your “rotation” I don’t feel it completely discourages using the active effects.

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Hey everybody keep in mind we don’t have to use longbow with Dragon Hunter.
I plan to use DH with Melee weapons and using traps for Melee combat. In PvP I plan to use Traps for defending cap points with Melee weapons and defensive builds..

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Posted by: Genesis.8572

Genesis.8572

Hey everybody keep in mind we don’t have to use longbow with Dragon Hunter.
I plan to use DH with Melee weapons and using traps for Melee combat. In PvP I plan to use Traps for defending cap points with Melee weapons and defensive builds..

You’re kinda gimping yourself given how you’re losing the bonus damage of “Pure of Sight” by going melee.

Will Hawkins (Human Guardian)
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Tarnished Coast

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Hey everybody keep in mind we don’t have to use longbow with Dragon Hunter.
I plan to use DH with Melee weapons and using traps for Melee combat. In PvP I plan to use Traps for defending cap points with Melee weapons and defensive builds..

You’re kinda gimping yourself given how you’re losing the bonus damage of “Pure of Sight” by going melee.

Thats a sacrifice worth making for melee oriented utility skills (traps) and better defense of team.

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Posted by: Relentliss.2170

Relentliss.2170

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

In my mind many of the elite classes are opening up powerful and different play styles for each class.

For guardian, I don’t see what is being offered in the expansion as powerful at all. If anything I see a whole new level of mediocricty being offered to us.

Nor does it feel interesting at all seeing as how you could just roll a ranger to do what the DH does.

The guardian elite class is more of an afterthought than a powerful new way of playing guardian.

We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional

Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I don’t think that’s a fair statement. Why is DH not an exciting, well though-out spec? Aside from continuing calls for 25% RS buff, it delivers many things people have asked for PVP-wise. From a PVE view, I don’t think we needed anything so the fact that any of the DH spec is even useful in PVE is just icing.

In my mind many of the elite classes are opening up powerful and different play styles for each class.

For guardian, I don’t see what is being offered in the expansion as powerful at all. If anything I see a whole new level of mediocricty being offered to us.

Nor does it feel interesting at all seeing as how you could just roll a ranger to do what the DH does.

The guardian elite class is more of an afterthought than a powerful new way of playing guardian.

I don’t see that at all. Sure we don’t have a cool name like Reaper and an awesome death sfx transformation abilities but hey, we have a Deathstar trap and a giant blender

The Bow is definitely a new play style and most definitely a game changer.

A lot of ranger’s wished they had our longbow. They’re saying we have all the perks of their dream weapon (or ranger in general) without the burden of a pet. The current ranger will not be able to do what the DH does. Not even close. You might as well compare GS ranger to a GS guardian.

I find 2k tick bleeds and 5k tick burns very powerful. I also find the overall CC potential we have very powerful as well. That’s because we haven’t added Hammer to the equation yet, either.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Knighthonor.4061

Knighthonor.4061

Are there any HoT build Cals with Elite Specs in them?

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Posted by: Vizardlorde.8243

Vizardlorde.8243

Hey everybody keep in mind we don’t have to use longbow with Dragon Hunter.
I plan to use DH with Melee weapons and using traps for Melee combat. In PvP I plan to use Traps for defending cap points with Melee weapons and defensive builds..

You’re kinda gimping yourself given how you’re losing the bonus damage of “Pure of Sight” by going melee.

I’m already gimping myself by going zeal since the symbol of wrath doesnt help when I play well and I’m not allowed to use symbols when the scepter ele’s from the guild join the party (not that the 3seconds of vulnerability would be any help).