I can sort of understand the idea behind the dragon hunter.
Its similar to dark avengers or blackguards which were twisted forms of the paladin.
I can definitely deal with that.
What i can’t fathom though is how badly they screwed the execution of the class. A longbow is fine, traps are simply stupid from both a gameplay and thematic perspective.
Instead of traps they can very well use mantras, or copy paste skills from the old paragons such as arias, echos (basically shouts that are renewed upon meeting a certain condition) etc
everyone is creaming his lungs out saying Dragon hunter is bad in EVERY SINGLE game mode yet Anet remains silent and buffs numbers instead of changing functionality
If anyone has ever played Monster Hunter, you’ll see the connection.
Also, don’t speak for me, especially when you’re so blatantly wrong.
This isn’t monster hunter. And he isn’t wrong. There is a consensus in the community that it simply does not fit the class. There will not be a single DH build that will replace current guardian builds in any meta. You could argue that bow had some niche usages but is not optimal in any situation. Even at kiting instances id prefer getting mobility from shouts and using a scepter/focus.
Well the DH certainly offers a comparable if not superior WvW medi-roamer and duelist from my experiences. Won some pretty difficult duels/matchups, and even some out-numbered fights with DH.
As for thematics I think i’m going to agree with Adam on this 1. The whole monster-hunter theme better fits warrior, mayyyyyybe engineer (something largely WITHOUT magic).
Traps are pretty awful, not gonna lie. Fragments of faith is decent, but we can’t justify an entire utility category because of one skill.
So what exactly do you guys want? I hear bow is crap, traps are crap, blah blah blah… so what do you guys want to see? I think it makes encounters pretty kitten easy to deal with and is actually pretty good so saying everyone is complaining about it is entirely wrong.
So what exactly do you guys want? I hear bow is crap, traps are crap, blah blah blah… so what do you guys want to see? I think it makes encounters pretty kitten easy to deal with and is actually pretty good so saying everyone is complaining about it is entirely wrong.
A signet or trait that provides 25% enhanced speed while selected.
A ranged weapon which projectiles are comparable in speed to bows, rifles or pistols in other classes. Some form of condition must exist in the auto attack.
Some cripple/chill effects linked to that weapon skils.
A shield which blocks/is viable in the game.
Yeah the DH has an identity crises. It isn’t conditions, power or support. I think with traps they were trying to go for utility/control but even that fails miserably compared to any other cc build for any other profession. I am more well equipped for those things with scepter/focus and 5 signets completely untraited than I am with traps and bow.
The dev in charge of the DH doesn’t know anything about guardians.
When I think of guardians I imagine them to be a heavy armored magical class. With spells of protection and boons to boot.
How it got turned into an archer with traps makes me feel confused.
Bow and arrow play can be magical (I like to think of the light arrows from Legend of Zelda xD) but the way they play out for DH takes it far from what I feel like it started out as. We aren’t given any more ways to protect our allies (besides 1 trap . . .) and it doesn’t feel like a Guard anymore.
DH doesn’t add anything to Guard to make me feel like it was expanded on but more taken away from.
Just my opinion really. But as I keep saying everywhere I’m a giant salt cube since we lost our tomes. That was the start of Guardian becoming less of what I thought it was intended and into something it wasn’t meant to be.
And people can say it all day. “We’re in a good place”. But it’s also drab, boring, and lost that special something for a lot of players I know.
Guardian is ok class, it needs more skill to be competitive (not talking about burn guard).
Dragonhunter is also good but needs few stuff to ge very good. I got used to it now and I don’t know how I will go back to regular guard. Bow is real refreshing to our class. Gameplay is totally different, its like ranger but little squishier. After 3 years of waiting for longbow I can’t get enough of it
The dev in charge of the DH doesn’t know anything about guardians.
When I think of guardians I imagine them to be a heavy armored magical class. With spells of protection and boons to boot.
How it got turned into an archer with traps makes me feel confused.
Bow and arrow play can be magical (I like to think of the light arrows from Legend of Zelda xD) but the way they play out for DH takes it far from what I feel like it started out as. We aren’t given any more ways to protect our allies (besides 1 trap . . .) and it doesn’t feel like a Guard anymore.
DH doesn’t add anything to Guard to make me feel like it was expanded on but more taken away from.
Just my opinion really. But as I keep saying everywhere I’m a giant salt cube since we lost our tomes. That was the start of Guardian becoming less of what I thought it was intended and into something it wasn’t meant to be.
And people can say it all day. “We’re in a good place”. But it’s also drab, boring, and lost that special something for a lot of players I know.
I 100% agree. It doesn’t feel like a stalwart defender like we all imagined the class to be like on the day of release. Its turning into some weird pseudo monk ranger thing. Every other classes specialization is an extension of who they are. druid and acrobat being the biggest reach. I’m just confused and sad. The class that was once played with great praise is being replaced by everyone else.
Guardian is ok class, it needs more skill to be competitive (not talking about burn guard).
Dragonhunter is also good but needs few stuff to ge very good. I got used to it now and I don’t know how I will go back to regular guard. Bow is real refreshing to our class. Gameplay is totally different, its like ranger but little squishier. After 3 years of waiting for longbow I can’t get enough of it
p.s. traps are bad.
Nobody wanted to “be like a ranger” If we did we would have just rolled a freaken ranger. Every other class gets their own unique style and we get this kitten ranger love child with a name that doesn’t even fit the kittening class. Like dragon hunter? Really that’s the best you could do Anet? Here’s a few off the top of my head vanguard,warden, and sentinel.
If you guys dont like it, dont play it. No one said you needed to be a dragon hunter. Dragon hunter was meant to, at least how they explained specializations early on, fill a void that the profession was missing. Next might be a condition specialization even though people have already gotten like 40 stacks of burning which is pretty kitten good.
I really dont see the problem with the specialization other than some people dont like it. I for one love the option.
Thematically, I’m okay with the deviation. If the goal was to be a subclass, it doesn’t explicitly have to be an exaggeration of the Guardian features. However, most of the other classes have elite spec options that supplement the core abilities of the class in interesting ways. Unfortunately, DH really misses that mark. The traps are (as are all other traps really) flawed, the activation time makes them almost irrelevant, and the opportunity cost of running traps rather than meditations/shouts/consecrations (or some combination of the above) is just too high. The virtues are interesting, but after years of instant-cast, usable while CC’d, Virtue usage … being hamstrung in that way makes it very unlikely to see DH anywhere in the PvP meta. In open world PvE, DH has been fun and fairly effective. But, the damage contribution isn’t really sustainable like our other guardian (non-DH) builds will be. The control may prove valuable in some unforeseen content, but I can’t imagine some other class being able to do it better and with a lesser opportunity cost on potential throughput. I’ve posted my commentary in the feedback thread and, while I’m sure the devs read these posts, make sure you try to post there as constructively as you can.
its kinda bland, but i enjoy it in solo pve and wvw roaming. i like having a true ranged weapon…and traps are fine in melee and range (if the mobs get to you…they’re dead), though i certainly wouldn’t fill my bar w/ them.
Chaos Organ (Ele), Pistol Opera (Thief), Modular Man (Eng)
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This isn’t monster hunter. And he isn’t wrong. There is a consensus in the community that it simply does not fit the class. There will not be a single DH build that will replace current guardian builds in any meta. You could argue that bow had some niche usages but is not optimal in any situation. Even at kiting instances id prefer getting mobility from shouts and using a scepter/focus.
You’re right, this isn’t Monster Hunter. It also isn’t Silent Hill, and yet the inspiration for the Reaper it still is. The concept of Dragonhunter works within Guild War 2’s combat system. Plenty of people have made it work.
On the subject, no, there isn’t a consensus amongst the community. To think so would be blind to almost any thread about the DH. Elite specializations aren’t designed to replace the current meta (for however long that actually lasts). So of course no DH build will replace anything. The whole idea is to add, not replace.
A signet or trait that provides 25% enhanced speed while selected.
A ranged weapon which projectiles are comparable in speed to bows, rifles or pistols in other classes. Some form of condition must exist in the auto attack.
Some cripple/chill effects linked to that weapon skils.
A shield which blocks/is viable in the game.
Is that hard?
25% isn’t needed. We’ll probably get it eventually, but now is certainly not the time.
Bow has a RoF equal to engineer’s Hip Shot (Rifle 1)
Longbow cripples on 1 and 5.
Shield has aoe aegis on SoJ (shield 4).
This isn’t monster hunter. And he isn’t wrong. There is a consensus in the community that it simply does not fit the class. There will not be a single DH build that will replace current guardian builds in any meta. You could argue that bow had some niche usages but is not optimal in any situation. Even at kiting instances id prefer getting mobility from shouts and using a scepter/focus.
You’re right, this isn’t Monster Hunter. It also isn’t Silent Hill, and yet the inspiration for the Reaper it still is. The concept of Dragonhunter works within Guild War 2’s combat system. Plenty of people have made it work.
On the subject, no, there isn’t a consensus amongst the community. To think so would be blind to almost any thread about the DH. Elite specializations aren’t designed to replace the current meta (for however long that actually lasts). So of course no DH build will replace anything. The whole idea is to add, not replace.
Except it adds nothing, by specing into DH you are actually taking away, sacrificing a far better core trait line and better virtues. You are deliberately nerfing yourself going DH.
Some people have made it work in rare circumstances in PVP, but thats it, to say “Plenty of people have made it work” is a lie.
Bow has a RoF equal to engineer’s Hip Shot (Rifle 1)
Shield has aoe aegis on SoJ (shield 4).
I was specifically talking about the speed of the projectiles, not the rate of fire. A high rate of fire doesn’t help at all if your shots fly so slow that people can prevent the impacts just walking to the sides strafing them over the distance of 600 units. Both the scepter and the longbow in the guardian are really inconsistent over that range due how slow their shots fly.
And aegis isn’t a replacement for “blocks over x seconds”. Works well against PvE foes that rely on power hits or some character builds based on stuns, knockdowns, etc… but is utterly crap against any build based on spams (most of condi builds, most of the ones based on auto attacks or things like ranger’s LB #2).
I have over 4k hours in the game, more than 3k of them on my guardians, and never got any use of the shield in any section of the game. Same with every signet and every spiritual weapon.
Dragon hunter significantly lacks synergy. The bow does not synergize well with other weapons, and traps are too easy to escape for an average skilled player. I agree that thematically it does not fit our profession nor does it make me excited to begin playing my profession’s specialization upon HoT release.
Guardian is ok class, it needs more skill to be competitive (not talking about burn guard).
Dragonhunter is also good but needs few stuff to ge very good. I got used to it now and I don’t know how I will go back to regular guard. Bow is real refreshing to our class. Gameplay is totally different, its like ranger but little squishier. After 3 years of waiting for longbow I can’t get enough of it
p.s. traps are bad.
Nobody wanted to “be like a ranger” If we did we would have just rolled a freaken ranger. Every other class gets their own unique style and we get this kitten ranger love child with a name that doesn’t even fit the kittening class. Like dragon hunter? Really that’s the best you could do Anet? Here’s a few off the top of my head vanguard,warden, and sentinel.
Good thing if you don’t like DH because you think it’s ranger wannabe, you don’t have to.
This isn’t about what players wanted or like; it’s about what Anet’s goal was: to provide a completely different approach to playing the class. IF the option appeals to players, they will use it. If not, for whatever reason, they don’t have to. There are similarities to Ranger. How is that even a problem?
People can continue to make these DH suck threads … it’s going no where and neither at the tools we were given with it. Get over it.
This isn’t about what players wanted or like; it’s about what Anet’s goal was:
……..
think aboot wat u’ve said here, and try to apply that to nearly any other industry/company and tell me thats ok?
Auto Industry: (emissions cuz its a hot topic amirite?)
This isn’t about what consumers/drivers want or like; its about what VW’s goal was: moar monies i think?
Banking/housing industry:
This isn’t about what consumers/home owners want or like; its about what (insert bank here)’s goal was: sub prime lending etc
Phones (android’s y apples)
This isn’t about what consumers want or like; its about what Google/Apple’s goal was: ads? i dunno i’m losing interest in this.
point is, thats a silly thang to say. users/consumers/etc should always push companies to do better, don’t blindly accept what a company says u should git
Now you’re twisting words. Also, your grammar doesn’t help get your point across. I’m not talking about “I don’t speak English like a native” grammar either, but rather “I never left 4th grade in the late 90s” grammar.
The point being, Dragonhunter was never something designed by popular opinion. Nobody took a poll of all Guardian players asking them what they wanted. What they did do, was find an aesthetic inspiration (witch/demon/dragon hunters from fantasy and history) and they found a mechanical inspiration (traps, big game hunting, Monster Hunter). Put those together and make them work in your game’s lore and mechanics, and boom, we’ve got the Dragonhunter.
The elite specs are designed to offer something different than the base class, but no one hired a consultant to ask the population of the game what they wanted. What the elite discussions might’ve missed popularity wise can be made up with a second, or third, or other specializations on the future. And if you notice, this is exactly what this other companies do. They don’t consult their market every single time they try to develop a new product. They get enough ambient feedback that they can make those decisions on their own. They might ask about which feature their market wants first, but development and design are largely decisions made by the producer, not the consumer.
This isn’t about what players wanted or like; it’s about what Anet’s goal was:
……..
think aboot wat u’ve said here, and try to apply that to nearly any other industry/company and tell me thats ok?
I have … do you QQ to Toyota because you like Honda styling/performance/floor mats better? No, you just buy Honda … same here buddy. You have choice in the market and Anet and their competitors know that. You might not think Anet understands that because they don’t sway to the whim of every player but the fact that this game is still around after 3 years is proof of it.
May I offer something that is a logical route for Guardian and doesn’t ignore the core of the Guardian Profession? I hope my long winded opinion offers a view into the possibility of Guardian Elite Specs. Confessor Elite Specialization
Enjoy <3
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