Guild Wars 2

…it does NOT expand on the guardian.

So at first glance I too was puzzled about this spec, but after toying around with builds I think something finally clicked on me. It’s not supposed to expand upon the class the way, say, chronomancers expand on mesmer. I think it’s more on the line of druids, giving us a new, completely diferent gameplay option. And that’s not necessarily a bad thing.

Guardian was the first class I played, but since it was my main on release, I got bored of it as time went on. It also didn’t help that guardians were always “in a good place” and as such didn’t recieve many noticable changes in gameplay. But I finally gave dragonhunters a try this beta and made a really glassy build for wvw/pvp (also used it in pve on a slightly altered version), and I gotta say, it was actually the most fun I had with guardian since release! It was just a completely unique gameplay style that the class just didn’t have before. It felt like the sniper elite spec thieves have been asking for. Sniping people down while teleporting everywhere with your meditations and sword blink. It made me think more positionally, be aware of my skill recharges and know when to pop my shield of courage to get my shots off.

I know many people are upset about the class “bringing nothing to guardian”, when in truth, it’s the oposite. It’s something completely new. On the other hand, Tempests, which brought the eles a lot more of the same they already had, are also quite poorly received.

I guess what I’m trying to say is just toy with it, find NEW builds, just don’t shoehorn DH into your existing builds because they may very well have conflicting playstyles.

PS: traps are still super lame as utilities though, I did get a good use out of the elite one however.

So your statement here is that using meditation with a longbow is a new spec?

You start saying that it feels like a sniper, then bring up using blinks(all of ours being forward to melee range blinks) meaning you will only spend perhaps 5 seconds in range, and then you describe the typical meta guardian build.

And claim it is a new build???

You are in describing the fact that there are NO NEW builds just the typical meditations and you will spend just one second in over 600 range then give up and go back into melee.

I played full zerk with defensive traits and 2 shouts
That actually was new playstyle for me and I loved it.

The V.8759:

I played full zerk with defensive traits and 2 shouts
That actually was new playstyle for me and I loved it.

It may have been a new spec for you but how was that synergising with DH?
Shouts are only 600 range so anti synergy there why was this on dragon hunter then?

Arutha.9874:

So your statement here is that using meditation with a longbow is a new spec?

You start saying that it feels like a sniper, then bring up using blinks(all of ours being forward to melee range blinks) meaning you will only spend perhaps 5 seconds in range, and then you describe the typical meta guardian build.

And claim it is a new build???

You are in describing the fact that there are NO NEW builds just the typical meditations and you will spend just one second in over 600 range then give up and go back into melee.

Well yes, using JI right before a true shots was kinda hilarious, but that’s not allthere is to it. I mean using your teleports and wings for mobility, closing the gap when needed or teleporting/winging away for bigger shots. The new shield buffs also helped with this gameplay.
To be more specific, I was taking virtues and valor on the other lines, for increased damage with Unscathed contender as well as some other traits like shield CD reduction and meditation for fury.
Something like shield 4 for aegis, smite condition for fury and then firing away. Or if in need to close the gap, JI together with dragon’s maw was a really good setup for more burst. Shield of courage also does a lot for sword users now IMO.

The V.8759:

I played full zerk with defensive traits and 2 shouts
That actually was new playstyle for me and I loved it.

I did start with shouts myself too but I was quickly realizing if I wanted that sniper playstyle I needed the fury to make sure true shot would crit. So I swapped over to meditations for fury and got some teleports and condi cleanses along the way so that was also good for my build. It also helped that the medi trait is in the same line as the shield trait which, with the recent buffs, works pretty well for this build!

1) Get runes of the Trapper
2) Trait Monk’s focus and Smiter’s Boon
3) Slot a trap, can start fight with Purification and Fury now
4) Gain stealthed True Shots :D
5) Get nerfed D:

Setting traps and pewpewing are new?

Go figure.

fireflyry.7023:

Setting traps and pewpewing are new?

Go figure.

Well, to be fair nobody plays a trap ranger so it’s like they don’t exist. He must have forgotten about them just like A-net apparently did to think this would be viable. Hey lets take something that nobody uses on Rangers (traps) and give to Guardians along with an inferior longbow to rangers.

brannigan.9831:

fireflyry.7023:

Setting traps and pewpewing are new?

Go figure.

Well, to be fair nobody plays a trap ranger so it’s like they don’t exist. He must have forgotten about them just like A-net apparently did to think this would be viable. Hey lets take something that nobody uses on Rangers (traps) and give to Guardians along with an inferior longbow to rangers.

Nope. This “to be fair” doesn’t work. I see tons of trap rangers in wvw.

cry more :D

brannigan.9831:

fireflyry.7023:

Setting traps and pewpewing are new?

Go figure.

Well, to be fair nobody plays a trap ranger so it’s like they don’t exist. He must have forgotten about them just like A-net apparently did to think this would be viable. Hey lets take something that nobody uses on Rangers (traps) and give to Guardians along with an inferior longbow to rangers.

Apparently you people didn’t read. I wasn’t using traps. I’m just talking about the big hit son range, sniper kinda deal you can do on dragonhunter. Not unlike killshot on warriors.
Also, by new I meant new for the guardian, not new in general.

Playing a trap ranger is a new way to play?

Vennyhedgie.5369:

The V.8759:

I played full zerk with defensive traits and 2 shouts
That actually was new playstyle for me and I loved it.

I did start with shouts myself too but I was quickly realizing if I wanted that sniper playstyle I needed the fury to make sure true shot would crit. So I swapped over to meditations for fury and got some teleports and condi cleanses along the way so that was also good for my build. It also helped that the medi trait is in the same line as the shield trait which, with the recent buffs, works pretty well for this build!

I mainly used Rune of the pack for fury uptime:) seemed to be enough for me. Ofcourse its personal preference. And yes shield is cool. Got some more synergy with aegis now, also from that trap with fragments

The V.8759:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

The V.8759:

I played full zerk with defensive traits and 2 shouts
That actually was new playstyle for me and I loved it.

I did start with shouts myself too but I was quickly realizing if I wanted that sniper playstyle I needed the fury to make sure true shot would crit. So I swapped over to meditations for fury and got some teleports and condi cleanses along the way so that was also good for my build. It also helped that the medi trait is in the same line as the shield trait which, with the recent buffs, works pretty well for this build!

I mainly used Rune of the pack for fury uptime:) seemed to be enough for me. Ofcourse its personal preference. And yes shield is cool. Got some more synergy with aegis now, also from that trap with fragments

My immediate thought was using runes of the pack too, but since I was using meditations, the swiftness buff was mostly wasted, plus the way to get fury from said rune set is by getting hit, which you didn’t want to happen. So I opted for rune of rage instead.
Build editor has had its traits updated so here’s the specific build I was running (sigils may have varied a little):

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAT8ensABVDhlDBeDBkdilGi6aYXgAQ+4L+oPL+uv8D-TpBBwAG3fAwDAoxRAocZgAHEAIXAAA

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Also, by new I meant new for the guardian, not new in general.

Therein lies my problem with the whole spec.

If I wanted this playstyle I would have rolled a ranger or thief 3 years ago. Thing is I’m not into pewpewing and setting traps and it was my understanding that this class was a support based melee class, with a ranged option like all the classes no doubt, but still founded on being most effective when wacking things face to face in the heart of battle while also having the ability to throw out team support.

Awesome.I’m in thanks.

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

I know many are loving it, more power to them, but it’s like giving ele’s a “Gun slinger” elite spec when they clearly rolled the class to cast fireballs and freeze dudes.

Like wtf?

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

fireflyry.7023:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Also, by new I meant new for the guardian, not new in general.

Therein lies my problem with the whole spec.

If I wanted this playstyle I would have rolled a ranger or thief 3 years ago. Thing is I’m not into pewpewing and setting traps and it was my understanding that this class was a support based melee class, with a ranged option like all the classes no doubt, but still founded on being most effective when wacking things face to face in the heart of battle while also having the ability to throw out team support.

Awesome.I’m in thanks.

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

I know many are loving it, more power to them, but it’s like giving ele’s a “Gun slinger” elite spec when they clearly rolled the class to cast fireballs and freeze dudes.

Like wtf?

That’s exactly my point. Dragonhunter is definitely more on the damage/control side on a support oriented class. Which is totally fine by me. Why would you want MORE support, you already have plent of options. Plus, you’re not entirely right anyway, as dragonhunters can also spec for support, it’s just in a different way. The new virtues are actually better than the old ones when it comes to support, you’re just looking at the utilities and thinking those are too offensive, which you are right, since they are traps after all. And even so, there’s still a support trap, and most traps also bring a lot of control which is in its own way a type of support.

I gotta say I’m happy with dragonhunter bringing something different, precisely because I was tired of playing guardian as a support and only being wanted for that. It’s just new options we can play with, it’s not like you’re losing your old utilities and weapons.

PS: before tempest was revealed there were a LOT of eles requesting a spell slinger kind of spec. In fact looking at tempest, which brings a lot more of what eles already had, and the negative feedback it got should give you a clue that oversaturating a class with the same stuff can end up not being that beneficial at all

Fashion Mage.3712:

Playing a trap ranger is a new way to play?

A trap ranger with PERMA-STOW for their pets.

Hell yes that’s a new way to play!

Nike.2631:

Fashion Mage.3712:

Playing a trap ranger is a new way to play?

A trap ranger with PERMA-STOW for their pets.

Hell yes that’s a new way to play!

This made me chuckle. xD
Idk I never really had a problem with pets myself.

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

OMG not that dead horse again ….
if Hunters fortification has synergies so does the whole DH Traitline.
Everything that causes a block synergizes with the core class and DH itself.
Every virtue has synergy with the core class. We od have knockbacks outside of DH and LB – hello shield my new friend. The only thing that DH has no deep synergies with are shouts and medis. And only shouts have a synergy between honor and valor.
where is the synergy between zeal and valor? Shattered aegis? please…
Where is the synergy between Virtues and honor? What makes honor and radiance a good combo that is far better then Radiance and DH?

Shouts are still good and medis are too if you want them. They do not contradict the traitline in any way.

I have yet to see an example of how other classes have so much superior synergy that actually does not come directly from an extremely strong effect in the new traitline itself. You can argue that DH is underpowered compared to others but the synegy is there.

Reading the posts here I feel I am listening to childrens arguments. A good sign that a true discussion is not possible any more. people want to see what they want to see and read accordingly.

Virutes behaviour is avalid point
Missing stun breaks are an issue
Utility depdencies are a general problem with guards
Usefulness of traps can be discussed and improved
Overall strength of the effect ar up for debate.

lack of synergy is not.

I think JI works pretty well with DH. Teleporting to someone and dropping a trap on them instantly is pretty hilarious

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Asmodal.6489:

I have yet to see an example of how other classes have so much superior synergy that actually does not come directly from an extremely strong effect in the new traitline itself. You can argue that DH is underpowered compared to others but the synegy is there.

Well tempest aura sharing in water and scrapper juggernaut come to mind instantly.
As most people point out no other elite spec besides Dragon Hunter and Druid ask you to do something your profession has not been able to do before and only Dragon Hunter contains traits that literally punish you for going back to your standard methods(melee range) and fail to deliver complete gameplay at range due to zero options for ranged utilities.

I actually really liked playing dragon hunter. the build I ran was Medi Dragon hunter with shelter JI, Contemplation of purity, the reveal trap(you activated my trap card shenanigans), and renewed focus. I had 6 superior runes of Holebruk(hope I spelled that right). I had on my bow sigil of fire and sigil of bloodlust.

So during the beta weekend instead of doing raids as we were planning to do. We did WvW and by Balthazar I had fun. I wish we had recorded it. At 25 stacks of bloodlust I crit a person using bow #2 for 8,815. Loved using bow 5 lockdown people(My guilds reaper enjoyed that as well). I enjoyed using the DH virtues as it let me help keep more of my team mates alive.

I agree its not perfect(nothing ever is): for example traps need some more dmg to them like the whirl trap. or remote trap triggering. But right now I believe the Devs(and their resources) are so spread out trying to get heart of thorns mechanics( such as the squad and raid systems) nailed down before heart of thorns. That they have to hold off on a lot of change discussions until its released. So until Heart of Thorns is released lets not all trait zeal irl.

My guild is planning to do Review of the beta( of the classes elites/specializations and HoT in general) soon on our you tube Channel.
Time-Keepers: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTetJ60Vv6WxOzAz4reAEKw

Arutha.9874:

Asmodal.6489:

I have yet to see an example of how other classes have so much superior synergy that actually does not come directly from an extremely strong effect in the new traitline itself. You can argue that DH is underpowered compared to others but the synegy is there.

Well tempest aura sharing in water and scrapper juggernaut come to mind instantly.
As most people point out no other elite spec besides Dragon Hunter and Druid ask you to do something your profession has not been able to do before and only Dragon Hunter contains traits that literally punish you for going back to your standard methods(melee range) and fail to deliver complete gameplay at range due to zero options for ranged utilities.

Ele yes, scrapper no.

Mass Momentum is basically the same as hunters fortification. Its very strong but completely linear.

I take the ele no matter, this is superior synergy but compared to the overall elite specs also pretty unique. The aura part is extremely overdone compared to others. Auras where not a real thing before no they may be.

In terms of DH this would have ment boosting SW or Signets via DH line. A trap that spawns spirit weapons … with no command oh the crying. A trap that activats singnets actives … good stiff but rather boring and on top we only have two traits that cater to that mechanic.

Boosting Medis or shouts with a trap as secondary effect… well I would have taken that but really original is this not.

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

I’m not sure if I can convince you that a lot of those synergies are and can be powerful so I’m just going to walk away with the fact that you’ve agreed that those are synergies with the base guardian.

You can say they are weak synergies all you want (I still know for a fact that you are wrong based off of experience) but I’m just going to take my little victory and walk away.

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

I’m not sure if I can convince you that a lot of those synergies are and can be powerful so I’m just going to walk away with the fact that you’ve agreed that those are synergies with the base guardian.

You can say they are weak synergies all you want (I still know for a fact that you are wrong based off of experience) but I’m just going to take my little victory and walk away.

I can asure you, you can’t convince him since he hasn’t even bothered geting HoT to test for himself yet :p

New ways to play!? Everyone is totally blown away by traps, my goodness it is so new! Enemy’s just walk over it and things happen! What!? But wait, we don’t have animal sidekicks? What!?

Oh right, none of that is original or new game-play. Druid has a better place in the game than DH (That’s a different story about Druid). I’m sure the damage DH brings makes a difference in your Zerker Meta of a life. But this isn’t what Guardian is at the Core. It is a weird class that brings support but likes to be a block-a-holic and hit things as it burns them. Guardian is confused but It managed to work! If a Elite Specialization truly took advantage of the basic core ideas of Guardian something insane will happen with the F Skill Ability’s. I can give you a great example with Confessor Elite Specialization
DH just adds to the horrid Zerker Meta and is not a new play style overall even from the beginning of GW2 Time It is not a new way to play challenging content.
CC through traps isn’t exciting new game-play to me.

Tearthy Flame.1463:

Oh right, none of that is original or new game-play.

These statements are pretty obtuse. Anet told us it was a new way to play the class. That didn’t mean the elements weren’t already something similar to other classes. C’mon people.

Tearthy Flame.1463:

New ways to play!? Everyone is totally blown away by traps, my goodness it is so new! Enemy’s just walk over it and things happen! What!? But wait, we don’t have animal sidekicks? What!?

Oh right, none of that is original or new game-play. Druid has a better place in the game than DH (That’s a different story about Druid). I’m sure the damage DH brings makes a difference in your Zerker Meta of a life. But this isn’t what Guardian is at the Core. It is a weird class that brings support but likes to be a block-a-holic and hit things as it burns them. Guardian is confused but It managed to work! If a Elite Specialization truly took advantage of the basic core ideas of Guardian something insane will happen with the F Skill Ability’s. I can give you a great example with Confessor Elite Specialization
DH just adds to the horrid Zerker Meta and is not a new play style overall even from the beginning of GW2 Time It is not a new way to play challenging content.
CC through traps isn’t exciting new game-play to me.

You sir have completely missed the point I made. Precisely because it’s something different compared to the rest of the class it is a new playstyle. I don’t enjoy going support guardian anymore which is why I appreciate a new, more aggressive option which, mind you, I used in pvp and wvw to great effect, and not in pve to catter to the zerker meta you seem to hate so much.

brannigan.9831:

fireflyry.7023:

Setting traps and pewpewing are new?

Go figure.

Well, to be fair nobody plays a trap ranger so it’s like they don’t exist. He must have forgotten about them just like A-net apparently did to think this would be viable. Hey lets take something that nobody uses on Rangers (traps) and give to Guardians along with an inferior longbow to rangers.

I play a sniper/trap ranger in WvW, and do pretty well with it. As I said elsewhere, I’m not able to follow the cutting edge of GW2 game play – I have to accommodate my limitations as a player. Would I stand up to someone who’s fully embraced the meta and has the Mad Skilz™ to stomp their opposition to powder? About as long as it takes to crumple a tissue, but that’s not the game I’m trying to play.

DH looks fun, and has characteristics that look like they’d fit well with My limitations and permit me to participate effectively, if not at the cutting edge of game play. That cutting edge isn’t my thing. Rather, its finding a way as “second best” to carry my weight in group efforts like WvW and dungeons (I’ve got no problems really with PvE, and have plenty of fun there as well, whether grouped or solo). I’m hoping the Dev’s take the feedback various folks have given to tweak it a bit more, at which point, I’ll guarantee I’ll be trying out new builds with him.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Tearthy Flame.1463:

New ways to play!? Everyone is totally blown away by traps, my goodness it is so new! Enemy’s just walk over it and things happen! What!? But wait, we don’t have animal sidekicks? What!?

Oh right, none of that is original or new game-play. Druid has a better place in the game than DH (That’s a different story about Druid). I’m sure the damage DH brings makes a difference in your Zerker Meta of a life. But this isn’t what Guardian is at the Core. It is a weird class that brings support but likes to be a block-a-holic and hit things as it burns them. Guardian is confused but It managed to work! If a Elite Specialization truly took advantage of the basic core ideas of Guardian something insane will happen with the F Skill Ability’s. I can give you a great example with Confessor Elite Specialization
DH just adds to the horrid Zerker Meta and is not a new play style overall even from the beginning of GW2 Time It is not a new way to play challenging content.
CC through traps isn’t exciting new game-play to me.

You sir have completely missed the point I made. Precisely because it’s something different compared to the rest of the class it is a new playstyle. I don’t enjoy going support guardian anymore which is why I appreciate a new, more aggressive option which, mind you, I used in pvp and wvw to great effect, and not in pve to catter to the zerker meta you seem to hate so much.

Venny, sounds like you and I are on the same page here.

Thank you sir.
I am currently in the middle of an all ranger raid night on my wvw server and we’re having tons of fun, they just cannot keep up with the range pressure. I proposed an all DH raid when it eventually comes out and the concensus seems to be positive as it’s basically the same as longbow ranger but more CC.

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

I’m not sure if I can convince you that a lot of those synergies are and can be powerful so I’m just going to walk away with the fact that you’ve agreed that those are synergies with the base guardian.

You can say they are weak synergies all you want (I still know for a fact that you are wrong based off of experience) but I’m just going to take my little victory and walk away.

Look at Chronomancer.

Look at Reaper.

Now look back at Dragonhunter.

It is nowhere near being on the same level.

Chronomancer makes me feel like it could actually be worth giving up Domination, Dueling, or Chaos, and still have an amazing Mesmer. It’s still a Mesmer, but it’s also a new spin on a Mesmer that you won’t find with anything else.

Reaper is even more enticing. I don’t even play my base Necro, and I’m quite interested in its applications. I’ve seen builds that could work by making the most out of both Reaper and base Necro mechanics.

There are 60 base Guardian traits. You managed to list two of them that DH has some degree of synergy with. Worse still, those two that you mentioned aren’t even unique properties that you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of without taking DH. I flat-out do not see any sort of build combination involving Dragonhunter that doesn’t end up actually being more of a handicap to the base class than anything else. And that’s certainly not how you’re supposed to design an addition to an existing class.

jdallen.5179:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Tearthy Flame.1463:

New ways to play!? Everyone is totally blown away by traps, my goodness it is so new! Enemy’s just walk over it and things happen! What!? But wait, we don’t have animal sidekicks? What!?

Oh right, none of that is original or new game-play. Druid has a better place in the game than DH (That’s a different story about Druid). I’m sure the damage DH brings makes a difference in your Zerker Meta of a life. But this isn’t what Guardian is at the Core. It is a weird class that brings support but likes to be a block-a-holic and hit things as it burns them. Guardian is confused but It managed to work! If a Elite Specialization truly took advantage of the basic core ideas of Guardian something insane will happen with the F Skill Ability’s. I can give you a great example with Confessor Elite Specialization
DH just adds to the horrid Zerker Meta and is not a new play style overall even from the beginning of GW2 Time It is not a new way to play challenging content.
CC through traps isn’t exciting new game-play to me.

You sir have completely missed the point I made. Precisely because it’s something different compared to the rest of the class it is a new playstyle. I don’t enjoy going support guardian anymore which is why I appreciate a new, more aggressive option which, mind you, I used in pvp and wvw to great effect, and not in pve to catter to the zerker meta you seem to hate so much.

Venny, sounds like you and I are on the same page here.

Damage is a need in a game such as GW games, or others like Blackguard. But bringing down the health bar of a Boss, Monster, Player(s), or other, to Zero is not the part that makes defeating your foes rewarding. It is the challenge of learning how to use your skills to over come difficult situations. Having your ability as a player be challenged. If anyone has read my long winded yet detailed thread they may understand why I did it. GW2 needs very brilliant developers to make a 1 Line Specialization work to change the play-style and function of profession mechanics yet still bring new game-play.

I dislike the Zerker Meta because it promotes laziness and I know ArenaNet could do so much better than this if they realize the flaws of their Specializations. Putting Professions on top of Professions would be a better Idea and balancing that wouldn’t fight against the Base Professions. If Dragon Hunter was its own profession a full 5 specialization lines and set of traits and did different things with Guardians base weapons and new downed skills yet still brought its own new weapon, this would be a different topic. But no DH is a very weird hybrid idea that came from Ranger trying to infuse it self with Guardian Affects? I don’t see the fun in playing a clone.

Sorry? Guardian is a support based class that’s how it was made but damage elements were lazily put on top of that idea to make it more enjoyable. Burning still makes no sense to me why it should it be there? News Flash, Spoiler Alert, professions will have rolls in GW2. Good to be back to the old concept of rolls in a MMO.

Game-Play is different from a player(s) personal Play-Style.

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

I’m not sure if I can convince you that a lot of those synergies are and can be powerful so I’m just going to walk away with the fact that you’ve agreed that those are synergies with the base guardian.

You can say they are weak synergies all you want (I still know for a fact that you are wrong based off of experience) but I’m just going to take my little victory and walk away.

Look at Chronomancer.

Look at Reaper.

Now look back at Dragonhunter.

It is nowhere near being on the same level.

Chronomancer makes me feel like it could actually be worth giving up Domination, Dueling, or Chaos, and still have an amazing Mesmer. It’s still a Mesmer, but it’s also a new spin on a Mesmer that you won’t find with anything else.

Reaper is even more enticing. I don’t even play my base Necro, and I’m quite interested in its applications. I’ve seen builds that could work by making the most out of both Reaper and base Necro mechanics.

There are 60 base Guardian traits. You managed to list two of them that DH has some degree of synergy with. Worse still, those two that you mentioned aren’t even unique properties that you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of without taking DH. I flat-out do not see any sort of build combination involving Dragonhunter that doesn’t end up actually being more of a handicap to the base class than anything else. And that’s certainly not how you’re supposed to design an addition to an existing class.

Off the top of my head there’s already two traits in Zeal that synergize with dragonhunter, which is the main reason to take zeal with it in a pve zerker environment. Damage to burning foes and damage to foes standing on your symbols, which can be accomplished with a single skill on the longbow, or with the tether from your spear. And this is just from memory I haven’t even checked yet, I’m sure there’s lots more.
Honestly Bbox you just keep repeating yourself but you literally haven’t even given the class a chance from the start, and you haven’t seen how it improved in the last beta. Of course some things are flawed and there’s plenty of feedback about it already, but you’re just blindly hating on it at this point.

“Dragonhunter brings NEW ways to play” sounds suspiciously like a positive way of spinning “Dragonhunter has no synergy with base class”.

Vennyhedgie.5369:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

Black Box.9312:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

Dirame.8521:

fireflyry.7023:

This spec does nothing to compliment the Guardian play-style as originally promoted and actually goes totally against the grain with very little synergy, 3 years of timesink after the fact.

It’s either you just haven’t found the right build yet or maybe you haven’t even tried. But trust me, you are so wrong, the Devil would be envious of how wrong you are.

It’s not about right or wrong. It’s about subjective preference.

If that is the case then you should’ve worded your statement differently. To say the Dragonhunter has little synergy or does not compliment the Guardian entirely is wrong.

If your statement was “I don’t like the Dragonhunter’s synergies” then we’d be having a different conversation.

Except DH really doesn’t synergize with the base class. Hunter’s Fortification is just about the only thing that has any sort of cohesiveness with what we already have, and even that isn’t as reliable as things like Absolute Resolution and Pure of Voice/Rune of the Soldier. Hell, one of the new traits actually provides aegis on CC, which is literally something that the base class ALREADY HAS. It’s almost like they didn’t even look at what class they were dealing with when they came up with this elite spec.

Dulled Senses + Wards (Ring of Warding, Line of warding etc), Pure of Sight + Scepter, Hunter’s Determination + Pure of Heart or any aegis trait, Soaring Devastation + Binding Jeopardy.

It’s either I’m crazy or I’m a genius.

Do you seriously expect wards to provide reliable cripple access?

Really?

As for Pure of Sight, a scepter/longbow build would get murdered by anything that can close a gap, and no other build would benefit enough for it to be worthwhile. The other two work, but are nearly negligible in terms of actual impact. There are far easier ways to apply aegis and 3 vulnerability from WoR is not going to change the course of battle.

The goal is supposed to be to make Dragonhunter worth taking over other Guardian builds. Right now, I don’t see a single situation where that is the case.

I’m not sure if I can convince you that a lot of those synergies are and can be powerful so I’m just going to walk away with the fact that you’ve agreed that those are synergies with the base guardian.

You can say they are weak synergies all you want (I still know for a fact that you are wrong based off of experience) but I’m just going to take my little victory and walk away.

Look at Chronomancer.

Look at Reaper.

Now look back at Dragonhunter.

It is nowhere near being on the same level.

Chronomancer makes me feel like it could actually be worth giving up Domination, Dueling, or Chaos, and still have an amazing Mesmer. It’s still a Mesmer, but it’s also a new spin on a Mesmer that you won’t find with anything else.

Reaper is even more enticing. I don’t even play my base Necro, and I’m quite interested in its applications. I’ve seen builds that could work by making the most out of both Reaper and base Necro mechanics.

There are 60 base Guardian traits. You managed to list two of them that DH has some degree of synergy with. Worse still, those two that you mentioned aren’t even unique properties that you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of without taking DH. I flat-out do not see any sort of build combination involving Dragonhunter that doesn’t end up actually being more of a handicap to the base class than anything else. And that’s certainly not how you’re supposed to design an addition to an existing class.

Off the top of my head there’s already two traits in Zeal that synergize with dragonhunter, which is the main reason to take zeal with it in a pve zerker environment. Damage to burning foes and damage to foes standing on your symbols, which can be accomplished with a single skill on the longbow, or with the tether from your spear. And this is just from memory I haven’t even checked yet, I’m sure there’s lots more.
Honestly Bbox you just keep repeating yourself but you literally haven’t even given the class a chance from the start, and you haven’t seen how it improved in the last beta. Of course some things are flawed and there’s plenty of feedback about it already, but you’re just blindly hating on it at this point.

You literally admitted that it doesn’t expand upon the base class.

And I’m not blindly hating, I’m forming an opinion around facts that I already know.
1. I’m already losing interest in the Guardian as a class.
2. I don’t like currently existing trap builds because of how ineffective they are.
3. DH traits are based around weak concepts that either don’t mesh well with Guardian or are just lackluster in general.
4. DH really doesn’t effectively solve any problems the core class has.
5. There are other reasons besides DH as to why I am still not sold on HoT.

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

As it stands, guardian has 2 more offensive oriented trait lines and 3 defensive ones. Which means it’s already geared to a lot more defense and support. Even if DH is more of an offensive line, the way the new virtues work bring even more defensive options as well. With renewed focus you can have 12 seconds, 12!, of complete frontal invulnerability through shield of courage and a high amount of CC.

So, no I don’t agree with your assumption that DH doesn’t expand on the core class

Vennyhedgie.5369:

As it stands, guardian has 2 more offensive oriented trait lines and 3 defensive ones. Which means it’s already geared to a lot more defense and support. Even if DH is more of an offensive line, the way the new virtues work bring even more defensive options as well. With renewed focus you can have 12 seconds, 12!, of complete frontal invulnerability through shield of courage and a high amount of CC.

So, no I don’t agree with your assumption that DH doesn’t expand on the core class

Vennyhedgie.5369:

…it does NOT expand on the guardian.

Black Box.9312:

Vennyhedgie.5369:

As it stands, guardian has 2 more offensive oriented trait lines and 3 defensive ones. Which means it’s already geared to a lot more defense and support. Even if DH is more of an offensive line, the way the new virtues work bring even more defensive options as well. With renewed focus you can have 12 seconds, 12!, of complete frontal invulnerability through shield of courage and a high amount of CC.

So, no I don’t agree with your assumption that DH doesn’t expand on the core class

Vennyhedgie.5369:

…it does NOT expand on the guardian.

Fine, poor wording aside (considering those posts are like two days appart), what I meant on the first one being, it does not expand on what the guardian already has, but rather it expands the class to be able to do new stuff. In contrast with the Tempest, which expands on the core elementalist by bringing it more of its existing stuff, rather than giving it something new.

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at a trait list and see the potential interactions with other traits, which, in the case of the DH in relation to the base class, is very little.

So quite frankly, I don’t care what you feel the need to tell me. If you want to make things personal, fine, that’s your call. But I guarantee it won’t end well.

Well, it sure plays different from the core guardian, but it certainly wasn’t effective for me; While the bow is a solid addition, the DH offensive traits are a total letdown, and it’s not worth picking up the DH for its’ defensive traits either; there’s way too many subpar selections in the DH traitline. Why isn’t soaring devastation and Bulwark made baseline is completely beyond me… Don’t even get me started on the minor traits, it’s been a topic of active discussion.

Arguing won’t change anything. I was personally involved in BWE3 and I can say:

DH feels awkward because LB is different option than scepter/focus. It does not give defensive options like s/f but it does good dmg.
It needs few improvements tho:
-Virtue of courage could use some buffing to cd, 40-50 sec cd would be satisfying.
-Traits need more love and some of them are not good.
-Traps…I can’t even start about traps, one trap was too good and bugged and it got fixed. Personally I would like to see swapping of heal in healing trap, other traps need more cd reduction if you want more ppl using it.
-Virtue of justice need to have 2 options like GS #5 attack. 1 for usage and other for pulling.
-we need 25% movement minor trait so we can finally have more options for runes except travelers.

I know most of you are against DH, but it is different gameplay and you must adapt to it.
If they accept mine suggestions above we might be competitive in every game mode.