Guild Wars 2

I find I can’t overall agree with those that say DH has no synergy with the core specialisation. So a little look at traits, longbow & traps.

Take “Aegis” & “On Block Effect” for builds that use them DH provides:

• Great Aegis access through Fragments of Faith & Hunter’s Determination.
• Another “On Block Effect” - remove 1 condition (if only it was work for BWE3).
• A new channelled block (Shield of Courage) that still allows skill use & is longer then Shelter getting better benefit from “On Block Effect” due to their ICDs. Add Bulwark & it’s larger & longer.

My only complaint other then some effect modifications/enhancement changes (please see BWE3 feed back thread on my thoughts if interested) is that you can’t take Bulwark & Hunter’s Determination as there both master traits. Swap Bulwark & Soaring Devastation & DH becomes a strong blocking / Aegis build trait line options (Talk about minor & GM traits towards the post end).

For damage modifiers DH provides Zealot’s Aggression (10% cripled foes), Pure of Sightn (10% foe foes beyond 360 range) & Big Game Hunter (10% to foes effected by SoJ active)* possibly adding an extra 30%. Vulnerability can further this through Dulled Senses (Vulnerability on cripple) & Big Game Hunter (Vulnerability on striking tethered foes).

Now what about “Control” builds what does DH provide for these:

• Cripple every had problems sticking to foes well DH provides access to cripple now. For some builds this could mean the difference between finishing your foe off to watching them run away.
• A Knockback on longbow through Heavy Light which also grants stability (slightly a bit too random for my liking).
• Another long duration immobilize (3 sec) with [i]Soaring Devastation{/i].
• Traps which turn the local battle field into a mine field for foes.
• Longbow which is a weapon focused on control & damage.

Edit: Sorry accidentally hit post to soon when aiming for preview I’ll continue in next post.

Overall I find DH provides greater synergy with Block & Control core builds & them adds a whole new game play when focusing around the DH elite spec. The largest issues I find which makes this synergy not as efficient is caused by the minor traits.

Defender’s Dogma now feels at odds with DH as overall the traits, longbow & traps no longer improve condition builds which is at the heart of this trait. Making DH as less them attractive choice for condition specs. When now looking of all guardian spec lines this almost feels better to combine it with Kindled Zeal. I feel Zealot’s Aggression would be a much greater minor which would provide greater synergy when combining DH with core specs.

Pure of Sight feels like it was only designed with longbow in mind. Although it can be used with Scepter & Staff it is a trait that punishes the build choice of melee range. I believe combat build range options should always be a choice. For this I looked at a name change & the addition of quickness.

Aggressive Nature
Deals bonus damage (+10%) to enemies beyond the range threshold (360). Gain quickness (3 sec, ICD 25 sec) when crossing to be within the range threshold (360).

So to finish up, fix the minor traits as these are always force choices when taking DH & I would see greater synergy between DH & Core.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

If an artist draws a deformed figure and calls it a human being, I don’t have to have personal drawing experience to be able to tell how it’s deformed and what is wrong with the drawing.

Would personal experience help? Probably. But not by a great enough degree for it to be worth me dropping $50 to try it when I can look at what I see and put the pieces together in my head.

I think it’s funny that the warrior’s berserker also has no synergy with the base class either. Both heavies but then you have the revenent which descended from the heavens to rapture all the old warrior and guardian players.
Also, BB it would help your chase to say you at least fought some DHs in PvP. I did and for the very few I did meet they weren’t all that impressive…

The big thing is our long have we had to experience DHs. Do we believe were discovered everything it has to offer & all it’s synergies. I for one don’t believe we have or that players that have just started experimenting will match up to players of the same skill level playing the core professions because if we have I would find that quite sad.

Black Box.9312:

And I’m not blindly hating, I’m forming an opinion around facts that I already know.
1. I’m already losing interest in the Guardian as a class.
2. I don’t like currently existing trap builds because of how ineffective they are.
3. DH traits are based around weak concepts that either don’t mesh well with Guardian or are just lackluster in general.
4. DH really doesn’t effectively solve any problems the core class has.
5. There are other reasons besides DH as to why I am still not sold on HoT.

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

That’s an interesting definition of facts you have there =P

Don’t feed the troll. Black Box has already committed to trying to group kick Dragonhunters the moment he sees them because not only does he know your character better than you do, he knows the absolute maximum potential of a class he has never and will never play. We’re not talking about blindness anymore, this is squinching your eyes shut so you can’t possibly see how wrong you might be.

Nike.2631:

Don’t feed the troll. Black Box has already committed to trying to group kick Dragonhunters the moment he sees them because not only does he know your character better than you do, he knows the absolute maximum potential of a class he has never and will never play. We’re not talking about blindness anymore, this is squinching your eyes shut so you can’t possibly see how wrong you might be.

The sad thing is that I’m not really even trolling. I know for a fact that I wouldn’t want someone in my party with an RNG knockback that happens every 10 seconds. Rangers using longbow 4 is annoying enough as it is.

Obal has already said that DH is not worth taking in PvE anyway, so I’d be just fine doing it with a clean conscience.

Like I said. Eyes squinched shut. Because no Dragonhunter could possibly NOT be running the KB trait in small group content where it would be stupid and annoying to have that traited. See icon, kick. Mind closed like a bank vault door.

And who the kitten is the sainted Obal and at what point did they gain the ability to see through time? Because some of the changes we just got have NEVER been played yet. I’d love to hear how that got factored into this prophetic judgment.

Nike.2631:

Like I said. Eyes squinched shut. Because no Dragonhunter could possibly NOT be running the KB trait in small group content where it would be stupid and annoying to have that traited. See icon, kick. Mind closed like a bank vault door.

And who the kitten is the sainted Obal and at what point did they gain the ability to see through time? Because some of the changes we just got have NEVER been played yet. I’d love to hear how that got factored into this prophetic judgment.

I’d rather not take the risk. And Obal is DnT’s Guardian specialist; he has a thread stickied above.

Ah, so you know your KB-spam complaint is untrue, you just want to assume everyone but you is an idiot. Too hard to actually ask a player if they have that traited.

And Obal’s last comments are now two versions out of date.

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

If an artist draws a deformed figure and calls it a human being, I don’t have to have personal drawing experience to be able to tell how it’s deformed and what is wrong with the drawing.

Would personal experience help? Probably. But not by a great enough degree for it to be worth me dropping $50 to try it when I can look at what I see and put the pieces together in my head.

Your example outlines why you are wrong; lack of experience. You can comment on the picture because you have experience what a head looks like. YOu don’t have that same experience with DH to form an opinion about how ‘deformed it’s head is’.

True, it might not be worth $50 for you to try it and no one faults you for that. The complaint here is you’re soapboxing your opinion based on zero experience, purely based on speculation and heresay. There is actually no reason anyone should pay attention to what you have to say, since there are people with actual experience at this point worth discussing things with.

Well if everyone played by DnT’s rules this would be a horribly boring game that’s for sure.
I’m definitely not gonna let the “top players” decide what’s good for the game. Just because they’re the most well known doesn’t mean they know best.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

If an artist draws a deformed figure and calls it a human being, I don’t have to have personal drawing experience to be able to tell how it’s deformed and what is wrong with the drawing.

Would personal experience help? Probably. But not by a great enough degree for it to be worth me dropping $50 to try it when I can look at what I see and put the pieces together in my head.

Your example outlines why you are wrong; lack of experience. You can comment on the picture because you have experience what a head looks like. YOu don’t have that same experience with DH to form an opinion about how ‘deformed it’s head is’.

True, it might not be worth $50 for you to try it and no one faults you for that. The complaint here is you’re soapboxing your opinion based on zero experience, purely based on speculation and heresay. There is actually no reason anyone should pay attention to what you have to say, since there are people with actual experience at this point worth discussing things with.

Cool. I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

One of the biggest issues is it’s a new play style. Different play styles work for different players. As it varies a fair bit from base guardian I’m not surprised some aren’t finding variable options as it clashes with the play styles their natural with.

Another major factor is how much has Arenanet really shown use of their new PvE content. This content that suppose to challenge us beyond what we currently find in PvE. Until we access all the new PvE content I’m not prepared to say fully one way or another what builds will come out on top.

At the moment I’m quite happy with DH as it’s not I own this spot (Although it can to that) but more of this is my battlefield type of play style which I’ve been finding acceptable fun & even viable.

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

If an artist draws a deformed figure and calls it a human being, I don’t have to have personal drawing experience to be able to tell how it’s deformed and what is wrong with the drawing.

Would personal experience help? Probably. But not by a great enough degree for it to be worth me dropping $50 to try it when I can look at what I see and put the pieces together in my head.

Your example outlines why you are wrong; lack of experience. You can comment on the picture because you have experience what a head looks like. YOu don’t have that same experience with DH to form an opinion about how ‘deformed it’s head is’.

True, it might not be worth $50 for you to try it and no one faults you for that. The complaint here is you’re soapboxing your opinion based on zero experience, purely based on speculation and heresay. There is actually no reason anyone should pay attention to what you have to say, since there are people with actual experience at this point worth discussing things with.

Cool. I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

Yes, that’s exactly what heresay means … point made

I’m pretty sure he’ll change is mind when he sees someone do a 10k Trueshot.

Dirame.8521:

I’m pretty sure he’ll change is mind when he sees someone do a 10k Trueshot.

To him .

Honestly I can’t wait to get all of this out of the lab and into play. I expect non-stop caterwauling that the DH no ‘true guardian’ will ever play is going to be one of the most hated things fans of other professions have ever had to face against. One mis-step and you get your brains blown out the back of your helmet. My experience with the so called ‘useless’ traps has been I CAN’T MISS with them when fighting on point and I’ve played enough Ranger trap-setting to not feel like there’s much PvE content where I can’t dart in, drop of my bundle of compressed joy and watch it protect, spindle, reveal, mutilate, etc. my targets.

Yeah, there’s some specific skills required to use these properly. Skills the core Guard doesn’t rely because its not a ranged or trap-setting profession. But if you have them — or develop them — the DH is a substantial package of new tools to mix and match with the current array. Unlike most of the Especs, this is gonna be an icon to watch for because when you see it, its NOT the core profession coming at you with some paint splashed on it.

Nike.2631:

…
My experience with the so called ‘useless’ traps has been I CAN’T MISS with them when fighting on point and I’ve played enough Ranger trap-setting to not feel like there’s much PvE content where I can’t dart in, drop of my bundle of compressed joy and watch it protect, spindle, reveal, mutilate, etc. my targets.
…

This was one thing I was also worried about until BWE3 & one of the reason I was pushing so hard for the addition of a pull to SoJ (Still can’t believe we got it…) So Happy, Thanks Devs). With the cast time reduced to 0.5 sec I was finding a smoother gameplay & having the same experience with the so called ‘useless’ traps.

I found as melee trapper combat fast & fun, having no problems placing traps where I wanted. Off to the side for later use or directly below said foe guaranteeing triggering. Funnly triggering is one aspect always brought up with regarding Purification issues but I could always guarantee triggering in a melee build as well as triggering with a range build with teleports.

Also Test of Faith was one trap I loved in PvE as getting mobs to cross it multiply times was too easy. Lastly I find I have high uptime of traps when compared to meditations as on average they have shorter CDs. Meditation play is instant requiring foes to respond after the fact were trap play is like walking into a mine field were they have to watch their step. Overall if looking at the three pillars of GW2 combat Meditations fall more into the Damage Pillar & Traps fall more into the Control Pillar they each provide different play styles.

Black Box.9312:

Obal has already said that DH is not worth taking in PvE anyway, so I’d be just fine doing it with a clean conscience.

to cool things off a little bit and actually get back on track I would like to respond to this since there have been further developments that are not taken into obals posts.

Status quo: DH will become part of PVE dps builds
Assuming optimal prerequisites in pve group encounters (talking melee here ofc) DH will now get 10% damage modifier from cripple, 7% without any prerequisites.

In addition we can have a 10% bonus over 6 seconds and a mechnic that will secure max stack of vurnability through BGH. What I am not aware of is if the damage modifier is for the whole team or not. That set aside I would argue that this is a nice little burst but to little to factor it in right now (I am sure Obal will consider it).

What the new changes did is pretty much bringing DH on par (if not more reliable due to symbol DT) with zeal in terms of damage modifiers that are not tied to a specific weapon.

So basically for PVE what will be tested is if DH is a higher dps boost compared to Radiance and Honor. Simply put: 25% crit chance vs. 10%+7% damage modifier.
Pretty sure that even with burning damage considered DH will come out on top.

IF this would be correct then DH/Virtues/Zeal is the new dps build coming with HoT.
I would argue that the utility of DH F3 is even better in some encounters.

I would also assume that mace/shield + mace /focus might be a better choice in terms of support an increasing the Uptime of aegis for UC – little as it may be and added survivability.

conclusion:
so I am sure that DH will play a role in PVE as a substitue for Radiance. even if the number do not turn out higher, DH might still prove itself to be more useful due to the access to hunters fortification for more condi removal. The pull could also be a good addition to drag trash into the kill box. Radiance does not offer any kind of group utility so its easily substituted. you could also substitue zeal if you are not running GS or mace (for wahtever reasons) and still be where you are now dps wise.

If you are agree to the statemens above then all this discussion about the traitline *DH being kitten pretty much was hanging at a 7% damage modifier. *IF you are still with me we can keep the discussion solely focused on giving traps the last edge they need so everyone feels fine.

And OT
Personally I think with new changes there are even more new ways to play DH more efficiently. The Pull will be godly especially if it is instant(which it should). Dragons Maw just became a lot more useful to set up a control trap combos.
Pulling the enemies in one spot to get a tether on all the targets and then pulling them into another trap for example.

dropping test of faith and purging flames infight. push back with shield 5, pull back with F1, mighty blow, knock back with banish. This is heavy control and damage.

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Obtena.7952:

Black Box.9312:

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time.

You can’t tell anyone anything about the DH because you have, literally, 0 experience with the Specialization.

We are saying that, out of personal experience in 3 BWE weekends, that DH is a certain way.

You’re saying it’s the complete opposite and have 0 experience to back it up.

When there’s a difference of opinion, like this thread, you realize why we can’t take what you’re saying seriously right?

If an artist draws a deformed figure and calls it a human being, I don’t have to have personal drawing experience to be able to tell how it’s deformed and what is wrong with the drawing.

Would personal experience help? Probably. But not by a great enough degree for it to be worth me dropping $50 to try it when I can look at what I see and put the pieces together in my head.

Your example outlines why you are wrong; lack of experience. You can comment on the picture because you have experience what a head looks like. YOu don’t have that same experience with DH to form an opinion about how ‘deformed it’s head is’.

True, it might not be worth $50 for you to try it and no one faults you for that. The complaint here is you’re soapboxing your opinion based on zero experience, purely based on speculation and heresay. There is actually no reason anyone should pay attention to what you have to say, since there are people with actual experience at this point worth discussing things with.

Cool. I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

Yes, that’s exactly what heresay means … point made

“Hearsay” would be if I just went with the consensus of the general public. These are people who I know on a personal level that I trust a hell of a lot more than forum apologists.

So no, it’s really not hearsay.

No, hearsay has nothing to do with general public opinion. It’s simply information that has been taken as truth from others that you can’t support directly with you own experience. No matter what you call it, disputing this is academic. The point still stands. Lack of experience gives you no point of reference to speak with authority on what you don’t like about it.

Elementalists have the same problem, but it’s like whoever designed this elite spec has never even played a Guardian.

Or was trying to introduce a brand new play style currently not possible at all with core guardian while still having a guardians theme & favour.

Zeppelin.6832:

Elementalists have the same problem, but it’s like whoever designed this elite spec has never even played a Guardian.

wait what?

I thought the major complain about tempest is that it brings nothing new to the class besides cool skill effects?

This is the opposite of the guardian problem. DH is so different that some people claim that is has no synergy which does not make any sense since the elite spec only makes up for 1/3 of the build but well.

I guess DH will remain an elite spec whoch you either love or hate. Just from pure damage numbers the traitline should be fine now.

I was messing around with some defensive builds that may be required for some of the new content and actually DH came out with some decent stuff that’s all about granting aegis for days.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAS5en8ABlChFdC+CBEEhl4BrKAslqXYLh/TWQ+/FAPgA-TRCBABap0ANlgYpMDgLAglq/U1+D5prRvjAoRIgHCQAAEgJOxkYJWiTMTciTciTciNxJOxJOxJWKg80aB-e

I think I’d be willing to give this build a shot, as well as Asmodal’s idea regarding zeal / virtues / DH trait line. When I first tried it out, it was boring as all hell personally. It’s pretty, there’s no debating that, but after some of the updates, I can actually see quite a bit of interesting things to run in there (though I have yet to see them mention anything about allowing the symbol from LB being shootable behind and such, which is yet another sadness point). Longbow felt quite a bit like scepter to me, but without the focus bonus. 10k from true shot? Against large hitbox bosses, doesn’t scepter do about that anyways?

The biggest thing about the other Elite specs was that there was quite a bit of “wow” factor with them. Daredevil gets another endurance bar AND 3 different dodges with different effects! I mean, that alone is worth the trait line! Reaper got some much needed love with greatsword! Herald got some awesomeness with shield and massive party support potential! Druid became a god of healing (Zealots might actually become a thing)! Chronomancer gets Alacrity AND quickness! The list goes on, but guards get mediocre traps, arguably non-synergizing traits, minor upgraded virtues and longbow that is arguably no better than scepter. You can see why people are salty.

In Black Box’s defense, yea, when you have someone who’s comfortable with the class in it’s regular role, reading the skills and watching the videos are pretty sufficient for figuring out what it’s capable of. You gave an example of having someone who’s never eaten chinese food yet having an opinion, but someone’s who’s familiar with the taste of oyster sauce, MSG, sweetened sauces, etc can likely form a fairly informed decision about the taste of a lot of chinese foods without having ever tasted it. It’s entirely possible to make a fair judgement about something with previous related experience rather than first hand experience.

StaticX.7695:

I think I’d be willing to give this build a shot, as well as Asmodal’s idea regarding zeal / virtues / DH trait line. When I first tried it out, it was boring as all hell personally.

there is no denying that it is boring but so is the current meta dps build for guards. besides spamming F1 in trash mob scenarios where you do not need it anyway it does not offer anything “interactive”. this might change in HoT.

StaticX.7695:

The biggest thing about the other Elite specs was that there was quite a bit of “wow” factor with them. Daredevil gets another endurance bar AND 3 different dodges with different effects! I mean, that alone is worth the trait line!

funny tha tinitially many thieves complained that getting something as elite that they can achieve with a sigil was pretty boring. But I think they are getting around as well.

StaticX.7695:

The list goes on, but guards get mediocre traps, arguably non-synergizing traits, minor upgraded virtues and longbow that is arguably no better than scepter. You can see why people are salty.

i really can not see it. lack of synergy is not for debate here. DH provides aegis, blocks, immobilize, F1 passiv activation on block, activ F1 damage boost, condi cleanse on block – all per trait. Where are the synergy great traits on reaper that have such a great synergy? They either synergize with the class mechanic (which we do have as well) o they are function without any other trait fine by themsleves. the strongest synergy is shivers of dread and that is a minor. there is no synergy they just add to exisiting mechanic. If DH has no synergy then reaper sure as hell dosent either.

StaticX.7695:

someone’s who’s familiar with the taste of oyster sauce, MSG, sweetened sauces, etc can likely form a fairly informed decision about the taste of a lot of chinese foods without having ever tasted it.

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

###

Personally I think we can move past this issue because an opinion ist still an opinion. Its just important to put it in context of how it got formed.

With the new changes to the DH there are plenty other things worth talking about and seeing how things change it might be good to focus on constructive feedback.

Black Box.9312:

I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it.

These are people who I know on a personal level that I trust a hell of a lot more than forum apologists.

I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

Are you saying these players of yours have theorycrafted/developed/played every single Guardian build, spent hundred of hours dueling with such builds, TPvP competitively, and/or posted certain Guardian build guides on the forums? I’m just trying to understand the exact credibility of the people you’ve been talking to.

I have been Guardian for 2,115 hours. My games played is 2,888 with 1,839 Ranked games. The only PvE experience I have is up to lvl 73 Guardian and 3.6k AP points to my name. I’ve spent just as much time dueling and theorycrafting builds as I have spent playing Unranked/Ranked/WvW.

Don’t think that your Guildies or RL friends are any more experienced than the certain Guardian players on this forum. Oh, and let me know if these experienced personal friends of yours ever like to challenge me and my guildies to a 5v5 or even a 1v1 Guild vs Guild tournament.

I’ve never said DH was going to be the best spec ever. Heck, I don’t even know if it can even keep up with the power creep of Revenants, Reapers, Scrappers and Chronomancers in the competitive scene.

What I will say and have been saying, is that DH has its strong points since the last BWE. You’ve completely ignored these items, either because you haven’t played it or your friend’s credibility are lacking to the point of calling the entire spec worthless. You have not listed the specific items that makes DH worthless, nor have you listed items that the DH was good at.

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it.

These are people who I know on a personal level that I trust a hell of a lot more than forum apologists.

I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

Are you saying these players of yours have theorycrafted/developed/played every single Guardian build, spent hundred of hours dueling with such builds, TPvP competitively, and/or posted certain Guardian build guides on the forums? I’m just trying to understand the exact credibility of the people you’ve been talking to.

I have been Guardian for 2,115 hours. My games played is 2,888 with 1,839 Ranked games. The only PvE experience I have is up to lvl 73 Guardian and 3.6k AP points to my name. I’ve spent just as much time dueling and theorycrafting builds as I have spent playing Unranked/Ranked/WvW.

Don’t think that your Guildies or RL friends are any more experienced than the certain Guardian players on this forum. Oh, and let me know if these experienced personal friends of yours ever like to challenge me and my guildies to a 5v5 or even a 1v1 Guild vs Guild tournament.

---

I’ve never said DH was going to be the best spec ever. Heck, I don’t even know if it can even keep up with the power creep of Revenants, Reapers, Scrappers and Chronomancers in the competitive scene.

What I will say and have been saying, is that DH has its strong points since the last BWE. You’ve completely ignored these items, either because you haven’t played it or your friend’s credibility are lacking to the point of calling the entire spec worthless. You have not listed the specific items that makes DH worthless, nor have you listed items that the DH was good at.

I spent my whole time testing DH in bwe3.
All I can say, LB gamestyle is different from any other playstyle we had over the years. LB feels fresh and competitive. Those who don’t know guardian very well or playing casually won’t get use to it for sure. Just give it time.

PVP: Elites: those awfull OP reapers were going down one by one like flies. DD’s dodge is annoying as hell but not that tough. Scrappers were fun to deal with. Druids and revenants were tough to deal with, especially those who knew their strengths and weaknesses. Chronos were annoying. DH trappers died from autoattack because I am not that stupid to walk over traps. Saddly I encountered few berserkers, they pose no threat. (forgot tempests, seen few that do very good aoe dmg).

Base classes: Necros were dropping like flies. Thieves pose no threat. Engies were moderate threat. Rangers pose no threat. Mesmers are tough. Guardians are moderate/tough. Eles are easy. Warriors are medium threat.

Build used:
Virtues(2,2,3), Valor(2,3,2), DH(3,3,2).
GS (air,energy), LB (fire, energy/intelligence)
Rune of the Traveler (rune of pack)

Stomping is easy now with DH, just autoattack till stability pop up and thats it.

- Traps were awful so I tried it once and gave up.

Pve: Traps were fun and I can see them viable.

WvW: Tried medi DH in zerg fights and solo. It was good but not that good as gs-sc/f. Need more testing tho.

So I can’t wait 23.10. to go back to DH medi again.

DH have its flaws that can be improved but overall its very good after 3 days of testing.

Asmodal.6489:

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

I am Chinese and grew up on Chinese foods of all kinds, thank you… No, I’m not thinking of stereotypes, I’m thinking of my life where I had to bring cautious newbies to Chinese restaurants (not Panda Express) for the first time. You’re not missing a whole lot if you have exposure to the more common spices around the world (ginger, saffron, garlic, etc). There are a couple that might surprise you, but overall it’s really not that special.

Call it a bad example specifically with Chinese food, but the general principle of a professional cook being able to read a recipe for a dish and without tasting it, come up with a general idea of what it tastes like due to his/her exposure to difference spices from their own experience. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll be close enough to have an intelligent discussion. Which Black Box seems to be going from.

StaticX.7695:

Asmodal.6489:

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

Call it a bad example specifically with Chinese food, but the general principle of a professional cook being able to read a recipe for a dish and without tasting it, come up with a general idea of what it tastes like due to his/her exposure to difference spices from their own experience. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll be close enough to have an intelligent discussion. Which Black Box seems to be going from.

That was an absolute terrible metaphor, but i’ll role with it.

A professional cook in this scenario would be the metaphorical player who has played the Guardian class in every single way – doesn’t play a certain elite specialization BUT has faced that Elite specialization numerous times in either the competitive scene, or the dueling scene, to have a pretty fair judgement of the class’s strong and weak points.

Has smelled the food, has seen the food, has tasted it to know exactly how it’s suppose to be.

We have absolutely 0 knowledge of these random “professional cooks” that Black Box has said tasted the “cuisine”. Who are we to know they’re professional cooks who know what they’re talking about? Looking back at his responses, the remarks he made is making sense considering he never tried the cuisine himself. Sure, maybe he knows a lot about that cuisine type. What he doesn’t know are the intricate details of taste and how much more or less an ingredient should be to alter that taste.

Black Box is, in this metaphorical example (like how I’m keeping it going?), is instead an average cook who loves eating a variety of foods but has only researched a certain exotic food as oppose to actually cooking it and tasting it for himself. But hey, he watches food channel videos and hears a lot about other food culture’s opinions so he suddenly has a strong opinion (we all know how diversified people’s opinions and experiences can be) of how the food is suppose to taste, look and appear. He brings that knowledge to other Chiefs, can form a fairly solid discussion about the cuisine itself until he says something that’s not politically correct. Now he’s being questioned on his taste, his knowledge, and his credibility on the cuisine.

He then tells the Chef he never actually tried it… well, then don’t tell me how it’s suppose to taste!

StaticX.7695:

Asmodal.6489:

the chinese cuisine is probalby the most diverse in the world. There are so many dishes simply due to thousands of years of culture and land mass. You basically proved the point all the way.

you are thinking in stereotypes and what chinese Food represents for you in your horizon of knowledge. But really having no idea what baozi is or tastes like – or you did not consider it for your argument which basically leads to the same conclusion. You think you know. But really you do not or do not consider all options. Which is understandable chinese food in my country is exactly what you describe. But it is a very narrow way of looking at the whole picture espcially if you try to grasp what else might be out there.

I am Chinese and grew up on Chinese foods of all kinds, thank you… No, I’m not thinking of stereotypes, I’m thinking of my life where I had to bring cautious newbies to Chinese restaurants (not Panda Express) for the first time. You’re not missing a whole lot if you have exposure to the more common spices around the world (ginger, saffron, garlic, etc). There are a couple that might surprise you, but overall it’s really not that special.

Call it a bad example specifically with Chinese food, but the general principle of a professional cook being able to read a recipe for a dish and without tasting it, come up with a general idea of what it tastes like due to his/her exposure to difference spices from their own experience. It won’t be perfect, but it’ll be close enough to have an intelligent discussion. Which Black Box seems to be going from.

Your hertiage is really not the point. Actual experience is and the language, choice of words and comparison that go along. That being said how about we all agree that we are all wise kitten and and could spin this on and on. I might even admit that I set the example up to turn out this way.

I value Black Box passionate opinion in any case and we have seen that if we are vocal stuff changes. so lets continue to do that.

perspective is still important because there are enough people that read these forums and repeat everything unfiltered in one way or the other without actually forming an opinion for themselves.

Saiyan.1704:

Black Box.9312:

I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it.

These are people who I know on a personal level that I trust a hell of a lot more than forum apologists.

I’ve talked with people who have tried it, and still agree with me.

So yeah.

Are you saying these players of yours have theorycrafted/developed/played every single Guardian build, spent hundred of hours dueling with such builds, TPvP competitively, and/or posted certain Guardian build guides on the forums? I’m just trying to understand the exact credibility of the people you’ve been talking to.

I have been Guardian for 2,115 hours. My games played is 2,888 with 1,839 Ranked games. The only PvE experience I have is up to lvl 73 Guardian and 3.6k AP points to my name. I’ve spent just as much time dueling and theorycrafting builds as I have spent playing Unranked/Ranked/WvW.

Don’t think that your Guildies or RL friends are any more experienced than the certain Guardian players on this forum. Oh, and let me know if these experienced personal friends of yours ever like to challenge me and my guildies to a 5v5 or even a 1v1 Guild vs Guild tournament.

---

I’ve never said DH was going to be the best spec ever. Heck, I don’t even know if it can even keep up with the power creep of Revenants, Reapers, Scrappers and Chronomancers in the competitive scene.

What I will say and have been saying, is that DH has its strong points since the last BWE. You’ve completely ignored these items, either because you haven’t played it or your friend’s credibility are lacking to the point of calling the entire spec worthless. You have not listed the specific items that makes DH worthless, nor have you listed items that the DH was good at.

He also has talked to friends who don’t agree with him but he never mentions that part :p

Speaking of powercreep, I actually found reapers extremely easy to beat on Dragonhunter, probably because they lack range but hey, more power to us!

Asmodal.6489:

Your hertiage is really not the point. Actual experience is and the language, choice of words and comparison that go along. That being said how about we all agree that we are all wise kitten and and could spin this on and on. I might even admit that I set the example up to turn out this way.

I value Black Box passionate opinion in any case and we have seen that if we are vocal stuff changes. so lets continue to do that.

perspective is still important because there are enough people that read these forums and repeat everything unfiltered in one way or the other without actually forming an opinion for themselves.

You’re right, it really isn’t the point, and yes we can go back and forth on this until we’re blue in the face. I do maintain that BB sounds like he has enough base experience with the class to have enough information to form an opinion and don’t think people should be dismissing his opinions simply because he hasn’t played the class, but I supposed we can just agree to disagree on that point.

That said, I do disagree with him given that the more I look at the classes, it does seem to have potential. I don’t like the long bow, I don’t care for most of the traps except in super special circumstances, but I do see your points on both the DPS side and I do want to try out the build I linked above as a defensive option. As much as the game tries to pull away from the holy trinity, I love playing tanks and have a great deal of fun with it in “difficult” content like lvl 50 fractals.

I really don’t know why the community revolted so much against the daredevil elite, I tried it out and had an absolute blast with it. The dodges added a really different slant to the character, and staff was just nuts in how much it reminded me of kungkittentheater (Certainly helped that I was watching Ip Man while playing it). Reaper, I only had a little bit of play time on, but yea, the chill synergy was really cool, reaper’s shroud was fantastic, but also the minionmancer being amazing as well. It really reminded me of the gw1 necro (which is what I was initially thinking of when I mentioned synergy on the necro).

With guard, I’m starting to see a little more collaboration in skills, but I never really noticed the gaps in the damage bonus from symbols, since I usually have 100% symbol up time between mace and hammer (I don’t use greatsword except when I want the pull, which is going to be replaced by the new tether pull thingy we just got, so I’m even more happy about that).

Basically each class got new four different things: new F skill, new traits, new utilities and new weapon. I figure if 2/4 were cool, it was worthwhile. DH traits were kinda meh to me, but some of the changes have been worthwhile to lend weight to them, one of the traps is interesting, and I do like the new virtues which has me leaning more towards liking it overall. I do wish they’d replace our shield 5 skill with the revenant shield 5 skill, but that’s kinda wishful thinking at this point. ><

Vennyhedgie.5369:

He also has talked to friends who don’t agree with him but he never mentions that part :p

Yeah, all 1 of them. x_x

And thanks for the defense I guess, guys? But I dunno if I really need it. I think I’m just being misrepresented more than anything else. I’ve never said that absolutely everything about DH is worse than anything and literally hitler.

I like the bow, at least, and have always seen potential in it (other than when it was bugged), even though some things like Deflecting Shot and Hunter’s Ward will unlikely see much use in their current states. The new pull on F1 looks nice, even though there really isn’t any reason to have it out of sync with the base virtue. The block on F3 seems like a good skill, even though the cooldown is still pretty atrocious.

I just don’t think it’s nearly worth taking the traitline and sacrificing any core Guardian traitline for, and I still think that even with the changes. As noted above, even the things that I like are limited by drawbacks that I feel take away from what it could be.

And I still would rather pretend that traps don’t actually exist.

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at a trait list and see the potential interactions with other traits, which, in the case of the DH in relation to the base class, is very little.

So quite frankly, I don’t care what you feel the need to tell me. If you want to make things personal, fine, that’s your call. But I guarantee it won’t end well.

Man you are toxic. Relax, and be constructive and TRY to see someones opinion from their POV and not yours. your supposed to be hear to socialize, be constructive, and rarely come up with something new to help out the professional developers work.

All of your replies are so rude, AND if your this invested in gw2, you really should consider getting HoT back then even if it was just for the beta access…You are enjoying the tireless work of a company, between LS1 LS2, BL skins, fractals, and many more updates since launch.

You seem to have good points, but it is hard to listen to someone so volatile and toxic.

Cheers

has anyone considered this fun little trap combo i found?:

-judge’s intervention+symbol of wrath
-procession of blades
-whirling wrath

traited right this actually gave me a pretty decent AOE spike due to the sudden DPS. i’ll see if i can dig up what build i used for it later.

Carlin Sanders.3587:

has anyone considered this fun little trap combo i found?:

-judge’s intervention+symbol of wrath
-procession of blades
-whirling wrath

traited right this actually gave me a pretty decent AOE spike due to the sudden DPS. i’ll see if i can dig up what build i used for it later.

well if you would have found:

- Dragons maw+judge’s intervention
- procession of blades
- symbol of wrath
- whirling wrath

you would be basically where everyone else is that makes a trap/medi dps combo

Roman God of War.6953:

Black Box.9312:

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I don’t need to drop $50 to playtest the DH because I have more than enough hours on my Guardians to know that this is not at all what the class needs to remain competitive.

rofl
are you serious?? you are one the most vocal vocies against the DH and you have zero playtime on the elite spec?

You have literally no experience how the bow behaves, how the damage feels, what numbers you can actually produce, how traits connect and what not and you are dissing the elite spec and everyone who has even the slightest love for the spec.

you act like a know it all and yet you know nothing from first hand experience.

incredible. I do not care how much experience you have on the core class.
Thats like saying “I know how chinese food tastes. it sucks! I havnt had it yet but I am very well experienced at eating.”

Please put an “I assume…” infront of you posts from now on. jeezus.

I know enough about the game and the base class to not need to play it. I’ve seen videos and talked to guildies that have tried it. That’s given me more than enough information to know that it’s not worth my time. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to look at a trait list and see the potential interactions with other traits, which, in the case of the DH in relation to the base class, is very little.

So quite frankly, I don’t care what you feel the need to tell me. If you want to make things personal, fine, that’s your call. But I guarantee it won’t end well.

Man you are toxic. Relax, and be constructive and TRY to see someones opinion from their POV and not yours. your supposed to be hear to socialize, be constructive, and rarely come up with something new to help out the professional developers work.

All of your replies are so rude, AND if your this invested in gw2, you really should consider getting HoT back then even if it was just for the beta access…You are enjoying the tireless work of a company, between LS1 LS2, BL skins, fractals, and many more updates since launch.

You seem to have good points, but it is hard to listen to someone so volatile and toxic.

Cheers

I’m toxic? Have you been reading at all? I’ve simply given my opinion, and only received hostility for it. Anything further from me was just for my own defense.

As for preordering HoT, even with my negative opinion of game preordering in general aside, why would I want to do that if I haven’t been actively playing GW2 for months now? I’ve played the occasional PvP match, but not much else. And I plan to keep my money until I know for certain whether or not HoT is something I want to invest on.

I can appreciate the new playstyle it brings to the class, as that’s exactly what they were going for. However, it’s pretty explicitly worse than base Guardian for high-level PvE content like Fractals, because imo, the only reason you should ever be ranging on a Guardian (again, in PvE) is if you absolutely don’t have the option of going all melee in a particular encounter.

Maybe they will make some changes that make it better, but idk if I will ever be able to get over losing insta-cast on the virtues. Too many time-critical uses for those effects.

Andred.1087:

I can appreciate the new playstyle it brings to the class, as that’s exactly what they were going for. However, it’s pretty explicitly worse than base Guardian for high-level PvE content like Fractals, because imo, the only reason you should ever be ranging on a Guardian (again, in PvE) is if you absolutely don’t have the option of going all melee in a particular encounter.

Maybe they will make some changes that make it better, but idk if I will ever be able to get over losing insta-cast on the virtues. Too many time-critical uses for those effects.

why does DH means being ranged?
F3 + RF + bulwark + heal shout + Aegis heals can carry any group through anything.

thats like saying “guardian doesent make sense in most enounters because why would you want to bring a scepter?”

Black Box.9312:

I’m toxic? Have you been reading at all? I’ve simply given my opinion, and only received hostility for it. Anything further from me was just for my own defense.

As for preordering HoT, even with my negative opinion of game preordering in general aside, why would I want to do that if I haven’t been actively playing GW2 for months now? I’ve played the occasional PvP match, but not much else. And I plan to keep my money until I know for certain whether or not HoT is something I want to invest on.

sigh
my neck hurts from shaking in disbelief

Asmodal.6489:

Black Box.9312:

I’m toxic? Have you been reading at all? I’ve simply given my opinion, and only received hostility for it. Anything further from me was just for my own defense.

As for preordering HoT, even with my negative opinion of game preordering in general aside, why would I want to do that if I haven’t been actively playing GW2 for months now? I’ve played the occasional PvP match, but not much else. And I plan to keep my money until I know for certain whether or not HoT is something I want to invest on.

sigh
my neck hurts from shaking in disbelief

Feel free to send me $50 via PayPal then.