Guild Wars 2

As an experiment I took a daredevil, outfitted him with all the damage reduction I could find, loaded him up on toughness, and equipped him with vulnerability and weakness skills. I took him into unranked and pulled a dragonhunter aside. I threw on all the weakness and had him then throw his traps. Daredevil insta-down. Either boost the thief’s toughness and vitality, or rein the dragonhunters traps damage.

One other thing I’d suggest is making the dragonhunter traps more like the thieves… you can’t instadrop all of them, they each have a 1-2 second cast time with an animation of the thief actually setting the trap. That would help tremendously.

Link.1049:

As an experiment I took a daredevil, outfitted him with all the damage reduction I could find, loaded him up on toughness, and equipped him with vulnerability and weakness skills. I took him into unranked and pulled a dragonhunter aside. I threw on all the weakness and had him then throw his traps. Daredevil insta-down. Either boost the thief’s toughness and vitality, or rein the dragonhunters traps damage.

One other thing I’d suggest is making the dragonhunter traps more like the thieves… you can’t instadrop all of them, they each have a 1-2 second cast time with an animation of the thief actually setting the trap. That would help tremendously.

While your at it why not make the traps explode with confetti and pixi dust but no damage.

They would be just as effective then as they would with your solutions.

The fact is

1:Anyone on any class can completely avoid all of the trap damage on a DH if they pay any attention at all & respond accordingly.
&
2: The thief even with all you did is not meant to be tanky in the least, they are meant to use avoids/evades to negate damage in large amounts for moderate durations while spiking someone down quickly or whittling them down with conditions.

Did you try to dodge?

Also, who tests things like that in unranked. That’s what custom arenas/guild arenas are for.

Yyeaah, this is why I play thief with an Assassin Amulet. Even if you have toughness and vitality, it’s pretty much just cutting down your damage, and not playing to your strengths. Thief survivability is based on dodging, mobility and positioning.

Anyway, this is a DH thread. I think the traps are pretty much fine as they are.

Guardians have been OP vs Thieves for a very long time… no surprise that DH performs just as good vs them.

I’ll tell you what though, nerf Thieve’s incredibly hi mobility and/or burst damages and maybe I’ll support a dh nerf.

For the record, a good thief can beat a DH. I know a couple thieves who has a legitimate 50% chance of 1v1ing me. And bunker thieves are bad builds never use them.

tl;dr
Although dh doesn’t have to try nearly as much as thieves, it can be an even matchup between the two classes but there are way more bad thieves than guardians.

It is frustrating to get instant killed om thief to DH traps

I would ratherr NOT have theese 100-0 skill with no skill requriment. So lowering dmg modifiers from thrinkets. Ferocity and boost base dmg so the traps Are better in tankier builds. More base dmg budt less modifier bonus from power ferocity critting ect.

Your daredevil have like infinite dodge, you should try to use it, its that yellow bar divided 3 times.

DD is not brawler “in ya face dagger type”, you poke 9k dmg and then teleport out, poke again teleport. You should try and watch some youtube videos to understand your class before posting something unreasonable like this thread.

I think you guys missed what he was saying. He wasn’t saying that he couldn’t dodge it, or that you couldn’t build a thief to beat a DH, or any of this.

All the original poster is saying is that with all the vitality and toughness he could get, and after putting weakness on the DH, the traps still pumped out enough damage past his toughness to take his health to zero.

Whether that is true or not, whether there are other mitigating circumstances, I don’t know. Just figured I’d clarify what his point was, since everyone was going off on tangents.

He didn’t say with all the vitality and toughness, he said with all the toughness. Given he went into pvp this probably means he ran knights, which I’m sure the OP can confirm/deny. And even so, nobody missed what he was saying, just that his conclusions are wrong since the premise is wrong.

The entire “experiment” is fundamentally flawed, and all conclusions drawn from it on the state of balance of DH traps are invalid. DD has 3 dodges, yes? Stacking semi-passive defenses against what’s probably a berserker or marauder DH probably isn’t a good idea, given DD’s defenses are built around not being hit, and DH is built around spike damage. By this logic in reverse DH traps would be underpowered if a full-sentinel’s necro in shroud were able to survive them, and they should therefore all be instant and scale better with power.

While I’m feeling sarcastic, if anyone would be kind enough to run a test for me I’d appreciate it: If you take a DH, load up on toughness and damage reduction, apply weakness or protection, and jump into all of a glass-cannon DH’s traps, do you die instantly? Remember to strip aegis first, for full effect. I’d like to know if guardian needs more base toughness and vitality in the ever-changing state of balance.

@bearshaman.3421, well output damage > toughness, mitigation in this game is kill target faster than he kills you, and players should use a effective gimmick base buid/class for it.

Guardian has alot of issues, if the traps fail to killon the first contac, guardian is on risk to get easilly killed.

Guardian DH with traps works while game is in power creep based, w/o it guardian traps are useless.

Saiyan.1704:

Guardians have been OP vs Thieves for a very long time… no surprise that DH performs just as good vs them.

I’ll tell you what though, nerf Thieve’s incredibly hi mobility and/or burst damages and maybe I’ll support a dh nerf.

For the record, a good thief can beat a DH. I know a couple thieves who has a legitimate 50% chance of 1v1ing me. And bunker thieves are bad builds never use them.

tl;dr
Although dh doesn’t have to try nearly as much as thieves, it can be an even matchup between the two classes but there are way more bad thieves than guardians.

shouldn’t really ever happen where a thief beats a DH unless they start with little cds.

Against a thief standing perfectly still, is there any class in the game that can’t kill them in under 4s (length of Dragon Maw)?

guardians have hard countered thieves like forever. Nothing new here.

As Saiyan said, nerf Daredevils mobility, burst and disengage potential then we can talk about nerfing DH

Plays a kitten build. Check. Faces his “counter”- class. Check. Misplays horribly. Check. Cries his opponent is OP. Check.

Comes to the forum with a poorly constructed, badly presented argument for his self-imposed dragonhunter hate. Check check check.

As silly as OP sounds, I actually agree that we need a cast time on par with thief and ranger traps.

Turk.5460:

As silly as OP sounds, I actually agree that we need a cast time on par with thief and ranger traps.

The only traps that do not have a cast time are test of faith & fragments of faith.

All of the guardian traps can be dodged as well_(also have a very telling 1/2 second daze before any damage is done)_

Conversely ranger & thief traps cannot be avoided by anything short of an evade effect going of at the exact same time they are triggered.

Given all this guardian traps are more or less fine as is. If they were going to do anything they should do all of the following

1: Reduce the damage & cool down on procession of blades. (say 25% less Cd and 20% less damage)

2: Make traps share any boons granted with nearby allies

3: Tack some bleeding onto procession of blades (say 2 stacks for 5 seconds per hit)

This would mean the traps would be less likely to instantly nuke people but would still have good spike.
As an addition any boons granted would be shared & procession of blades would also apply some condition pressure for those willing to utilize it.

Well the only problem in Wvw with guardian traps is super stacking (i.e. instakill 5+ traps) and stupidly long durations after the person leaves.

In PvP you need to dodge more most likely unless the DH used judge’s intervention to teleport to you

As another thief player: Im not exactly sure, what the ops intention is, but: the traps are not a problem. If there is an easy-to-avoid burst, a glassy class should not survive it.
We dodge, we live, we dont dodge, we die. Fair is fair.
If the dh was any other class but with the traps, a thief would have no problem to fight them(if we didnt have a general problem with fighting that is). Unfortunately you have been our nemesis for a long time, and even that is ok. Counter mechanics are part of the game, and if we should ever get buffed to the point of viability again, there needs to be someone, who can sit on a point and stop us.

Its also pretty ridicoulus seeing guards and thieves asking to nerf each other. We all need some serious love for our class, if we want to play it on competitive level.
We should like…start a movement together. I’ll go get the warriors, you guys think of a good name. ^^

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Turk.5460:

As silly as OP sounds, I actually agree that we need a cast time on par with thief and ranger traps.

The only traps that do not have a cast time are test of faith & fragments of faith.

All of the guardian traps can be dodged as well_(also have a very telling 1/2 second daze before any damage is done)_

Conversely ranger & thief traps cannot be avoided by anything short of an evade effect going of at the exact same time they are triggered.

Given all this guardian traps are more or less fine as is. If they were going to do anything they should do all of the following

1: Reduce the damage & cool down on procession of blades. (say 25% less Cd and 20% less damage)

2: Make traps share any boons granted with nearby allies

3: Tack some bleeding onto procession of blades (say 2 stacks for 5 seconds per hit)

This would mean the traps would be less likely to instantly nuke people but would still have good spike.
As an addition any boons granted would be shared & procession of blades would also apply some condition pressure for those willing to utilize it.

See buts that’s the thing, even though you dodge them, they still cast and affect anybody in them. E.g. you dodge procession of blades, it doesn’t get disarmed, it just misses the first few hits.

If you dodge thief’s traps it disarms them and they literally do NOTHING.

This needs to be fixed.

Hendrix.9763:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Turk.5460:

As silly as OP sounds, I actually agree that we need a cast time on par with thief and ranger traps.

The only traps that do not have a cast time are test of faith & fragments of faith.

All of the guardian traps can be dodged as well_(also have a very telling 1/2 second daze before any damage is done)_

Conversely ranger & thief traps cannot be avoided by anything short of an evade effect going of at the exact same time they are triggered.

Given all this guardian traps are more or less fine as is. If they were going to do anything they should do all of the following

1: Reduce the damage & cool down on procession of blades. (say 25% less Cd and 20% less damage)

2: Make traps share any boons granted with nearby allies

3: Tack some bleeding onto procession of blades (say 2 stacks for 5 seconds per hit)

This would mean the traps would be less likely to instantly nuke people but would still have good spike.
As an addition any boons granted would be shared & procession of blades would also apply some condition pressure for those willing to utilize it.

See buts that’s the thing, even though you dodge them, they still cast and affect anybody in them. E.g. you dodge procession of blades, it doesn’t get disarmed, it just misses the first few hits.

If you dodge thief’s traps it disarms them and they literally do NOTHING.

This needs to be fixed.

I disagree, our traps are of a different flavor than either thief or ranger traps. If you wanna talk balance, lets be real here: there are only two traps that give an even slightly skilled player any trouble and those are Test of Faith and Dragon’s Maw.

I think these two traps should be balanced and reworked slightly. ToF needs a short cast time to it (and perhaps a small damage buff to crossing the barrier), and Dragon’s Maw could be reworked such that it punishes you much harder (than it currently does) for staying inside the entire time by dealing its damage in multiple hits, but doesn’t do a lot of up-front damage. I think this would be a good change as it would be more condi-build friendly. These changes wouldn’t hurt a tactical player’s use of the traps, and would also lead to less steponatrapandinstantlyblowup-type situations for other classes.

Hendrix.9763:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Turk.5460:

As silly as OP sounds, I actually agree that we need a cast time on par with thief and ranger traps.

The only traps that do not have a cast time are test of faith & fragments of faith.

All of the guardian traps can be dodged as well_(also have a very telling 1/2 second daze before any damage is done)_

Conversely ranger & thief traps cannot be avoided by anything short of an evade effect going of at the exact same time they are triggered.

Given all this guardian traps are more or less fine as is. If they were going to do anything they should do all of the following

1: Reduce the damage & cool down on procession of blades. (say 25% less Cd and 20% less damage)

2: Make traps share any boons granted with nearby allies

3: Tack some bleeding onto procession of blades (say 2 stacks for 5 seconds per hit)

This would mean the traps would be less likely to instantly nuke people but would still have good spike.
As an addition any boons granted would be shared & procession of blades would also apply some condition pressure for those willing to utilize it.

See buts that’s the thing, even though you dodge them, they still cast and affect anybody in them. E.g. you dodge procession of blades, it doesn’t get disarmed, it just misses the first few hits.

If you dodge thief’s traps it disarms them and they literally do NOTHING.

This needs to be fixed.

You cannot dodge a thief or rangers trap unless your dodging through it is what triggers it.
They are completely unavoidable if you just wonder into them.

On guardian traps there is an instant after it triggers were you can dodge/evade/block your way out of it.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

You cannot dodge a thief or rangers trap unless your dodging through it is what triggers it.
They are completely unavoidable if you just wonder into them.

On guardian traps there is an instant after it triggers were you can dodge/evade/block your way out of it.

That’s what I’m saying.
If you dodge through a thief’s trap it DISARMS it. E.g. it won’t affect, hurt, or do ANYTHING to ANYBODY who was inside of it after it got disarmed.

Now take Procession of Blades, Dragon’s Maw, WHATEVER. You dodge through it, it doesn’t disarm it, oh no. It ACTIVATES it. Now you dodged through it so you’re good, but now it’s killing every single teammate that was in it’s area of effect but may not have been the one to trigger it.

Do you see the difference now?
This need to be fixed.

Although I do agree that Dragon’s Maw should do DoT while trapped inside of it. That makes more sense, doesn’t make Dragon’s Maw so immediately threatening, but keeps the dmg there.

I also think that traps shouldn’t be able to crit, similarly to how mug can’t crit on a thief. In exchange traps should apply burning, bleeding, poison, vulnerability, or even weakness to reduce foe DPS to keep guards safer.

Hendrix.9763:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

You cannot dodge a thief or rangers trap unless your dodging through it is what triggers it.
They are completely unavoidable if you just wonder into them.

On guardian traps there is an instant after it triggers were you can dodge/evade/block your way out of it.

That’s what I’m saying.
If you dodge through a thief’s trap it DISARMS it. E.g. it won’t affect, hurt, or do ANYTHING to ANYBODY who was inside of it after it got disarmed.

Now take Procession of Blades, Dragon’s Maw, WHATEVER. You dodge through it, it doesn’t disarm it, oh no. It ACTIVATES it. Now you dodged through it so you’re good, but now it’s killing every single teammate that was in it’s area of effect but may not have been the one to trigger it.

Do you see the difference now?
This need to be fixed.

Although I do agree that Dragon’s Maw should do DoT while trapped inside of it. That makes more sense, doesn’t make Dragon’s Maw so immediately threatening, but keeps the dmg there.

I also think that traps shouldn’t be able to crit, similarly to how mug can’t crit on a thief. In exchange traps should apply burning, bleeding, poison, vulnerability, or even weakness to reduce foe DPS to keep guards safer.

You’re comparing two different kinds of traps as if they should act the same.

Guardian has always been about AoE bursts and CC (hammer#5, Shield#5, Staff#5). Our traps opperates in the same way. As far as dragon’s maw, it’s one of those make or break Elite specs that’s very out-playable.

Removing the burst nature of it, removes the theme of it. Doing that means you’ll have to treat all other classes in the same way… and I can say quite a bit about Thieves, Revs, Engi etc.

Saiyan.1704:

You’re comparing two different kinds of traps as if they should act the same.

Guardian has always been about AoE bursts and CC (hammer#5, Shield#5, Staff#5). Our traps opperates in the same way. As far as dragon’s maw, it’s one of those make or break Elite specs that’s very out-playable.

Removing the burst nature of it, removes the theme of it. Doing that means you’ll have to treat all other classes in the same way… and I can say quite a bit about Thieves, Revs, Engi etc.

Every class has the ability to burst, but with Guardian being heavy armor and having some of the best defensive abilities in the game (their heal blocks everything, a shield that blocks attacks and then explodes, some blinds, etc.) saying that were meant to be solely burst is just wrong.

Thief has been known for its burst as well, with backstab, vault, basilisk venom, etc, and yet their traps don’t do physical damage?

While I think the way the traps do dmg, the worst part is the way they get triggered. Thief traps won’t do damage to anyone if they get evaded over, and even if they do trigger they only do dmg to one person, while a guardians traps get triggered and can do damage to more than 1 person even if they were rolled over with an evade. The core foundation of this is just unfair.

There’s just so many things wrong with guard traps when a guard stacks all their traps and can kill anybody using zerker gear who didn’t evade through them at the time of trigger. They’re just too punishing all at once and can’t be disarmed like the other traps.

Do you even play guardian? Do you even play block-based classes? Blocks don’t block everything in the game. There are these things called “unblockables”. If you interrupt that 2s cast heal with an unblockable CC, guess what: it doesn’t go off. By this logic DD is super op because they get an extra dodge, and as far as I know there is no “unevadable” effect.
Thieves don’t need traps to do physical damage, they have other things. Traps are the only guard utility besides Smite Condition that actively apply notable direct damage to the enemy besides Sword of Justice and Hammer of Wisdom. Guards also don’t get a lot of damage on most weapons. It’s not like guardians have high mobility on weapon skills besides S2 and GS3 either. You brought the trap on yourself, by either waltzing into it or getting hit by the yolo teleport bomb. Given the only guard survivability comes from AH or medis, and only shout guards run AH, most guardian survivability is lost with the addition of more traps in place of medis. Glass cannon with burst survivability/damage is glass cannon still. As for the “disarmed” like other traps: they still don’t move. If you dodge out of it, you’ll be fine. If your allies decide to stay and eat it, then they’ll eat it and hopefully die like they should for their poor decision-making. If they have blocks, guess what, procession of blades (main damage) is not unblockable.

King Cephalopod.7942:

By this logic DD is super op because they get an extra dodge, and as far as I know there is no “unevadable” effect.

Wards

Ragnarox.9601:

Your daredevil have like infinite dodge, you should try to use it, its that yellow bar divided 3 times.

DD is not brawler “in ya face dagger type”, you poke 9k dmg and then teleport out, poke again teleport. You should try and watch some youtube videos to understand your class before posting something unreasonable like this thread.

Ima laugh later xD

Arcaedus.7290:

King Cephalopod.7942:

By this logic DD is super op because they get an extra dodge, and as far as I know there is no “unevadable” effect.

Wards

Oh yeah, forgot about that; you are correct, but it’s not an effect so much as an inherent aspect of the ability type based on the extemely niche nature of wards. If you could dodge through them they would be worthless.

lol this f-ing guy.

shelter is so bad in this meta and can be interrupted by so many sources leaving you with no heal and full cooldown that anyone with even 10 hrs of guardian experience has swapped over to purification.

Darknicrofia.2604:

lol this f-ing guy.

shelter is so bad in this meta and can be interrupted by so many sources leaving you with no heal and full cooldown that anyone with even 10 hrs of guardian experience has swapped over to purification.

Shelter not working is pretty much balanced, can u imagine if other classes needed work to kill guardians?