Blackdeath.2607:

Sorry Notics i didn’t intend nor wish to insult/undermine or insinuate that your suggestion was inferior at all i was merely making one of my own. My sincerest apologies if it did offend you in any way or form.

once again you have made yet another fantastic suggestion for puncture shot changes. Love the sound of the shattering effect as well, but i feel the issue is puncture shots currently inability to apply cripple to 1 target and the poor bounce mechanic it currently has.

Once again tho another great suggestion you have made, looking forward to seeing more of these thoughts ill admit.

Don’t worry, that was my bad, sorry for the confusion. sometimes it is quite difficult for me to express what I really want to say it is because i learned english just playing video games with a dictionary on my hand when i was a kid

What i was trying to say is “why we cant have both so here is my new idea” or something like that.

Deflecting Shot: this is one of my old ideas. Fire a projectile that block any projectile (which means that it will trigger any blocking trait) and when it reach 300 range. it would begin to drastically (and progressively) slow down in movement speed while expanding in width as it continues to move away. (We used to have good conversations with rebornbyfire, he gave me the idea of make it expand in width while slow down in movement speed)

Love the idea of it expanding the further it travels, not a fan of it becoming slower as it travels further tho. Still such a change would be far better then current deflecting shot since its rather prone to being inaccurate, during beta i had alot of times where deflecting shot would miss even if u aimed right thu the center of enemies if it was shot on a angle.

keep the great ideas coming Notics.

Obtena.7952

The number of current signets doesn’t exclude the addition of another. There is no reason to ‘invent’ rules to restrict what could be.

took the time to check around some professions do have 6 of a skill type. I guess that was a misconception on my part. So your right a run speed signet is still a possibility for guards.

Blackdeath.2607:

I do agree Bezagron.7352 signet of courage is in major need of a over-haul currently its pretty terrible for 180sec CD skill.

Changing the passive effect to heal every second is a fantastic idea.

As for the activation my suggestion is : change the cast time to 2seconds make the heal equal to 100% of the guardians maximum HP and allow this heal to revive downed targets but downed targets are only healed for half as much. This change to the heal amount should justify the cast time reduction.

4.25sec cast was never a good idea for a skill that doesn’t even work on downed targets in that time not only could a enemy player kill you while you cast it, in pve scenarios such as dungeons or Fotm the cast time is also uesless and this is where it also really hurts that it doesn’t effect downed targets either.

Having it heal every second would be quite nice.

As for the active, just scrap it & bring back the old skill on the tome that granted regeneration & protection to allies (including the guard) for the next 10 seconds.

With that the cast time & CD could even be lowered due to the fact that boons can be countered.

Blackdeath.2607:

Obtena.7952

The number of current signets doesn’t exclude the addition of another. There is no reason to ‘invent’ rules to restrict what could be.

took the time to check around some professions do have 6 of a skill type. I guess that was a misconception on my part. So your right a run speed signet is still a possibility for guards.

Heck even if they didnt want to create a new one they could just tack it on signet of wrath.

Makes sense, the passive boosts your speed while the active immobilizes the enemy.

Now if only the signet trait was as good as it used to be……

Blackdeath.2607:

I can hear the screams of all wvw guards saying GIVE IT TO ME NOW (and probably alot of other professions too)

On the subject of better run speed runes this is idea is beyond fantastic, it would certainly be better not just for guards but everyone in wvw. I myself never take my guard into wvw ever cos even traveler runes were never a good enough option.

Still doesn’t fix the run speed issue for guards in pve but id really love this rune set to be implemented as it would a far better viable run speed rune option for all wvw’ers not just guards.

I really hope Karl takes notice of this brilliant idea.

Thanks . I’ve cobbled together new rune-sets for 7 of the 10 elite specs (I don’t feel like I know the weaknesses of the other three professions well enough to propose something sufficiently optimized for their needs). The intent is definitely to add options all profession would consider and the namesake profession would LOVE.

On a side note: love the animated picture Nike =)

It’s a good example of the level of excitement I want the new Runes to create!

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

docMed.7692:

Good changes overall and I’m glad to see blades get an overall damage buff (it needed it badly). The Dragon Maw change is also pretty godly.

My only quick adjustment I would recommend is rather than making tethered enemies pull to you (which is kind of the opposite idea of what we want as ranged dps) – why not make it immob for 2 sec?

There is already a trait that turns justice into a 2 or 3s unblockable immob,

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

i agree with this

+15% duration is good and all but you already put duration increase in 2. otherwise it looks gr8

Blackdeath.2607:

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

It synergizes very well with the master trait that activates Signet of Wrath on VoJ use. I agree though, I’m not a fan of light aura on signets. Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

Skyline Crash.6254:

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

i agree with this

+15% duration is good and all but you already put duration increase in 2. otherwise it looks gr8

It should be +20% cripple duration and +7% damage against cripple, just like Flame Legion runes. I’d prefer that to movement speed

Blackdeath.2607:

Love the idea of it expanding the further it travels, not a fan of it becoming slower as it travels further tho. Still such a change would be far better then current deflecting shot since its rather prone to being inaccurate, during beta i had alot of times where deflecting shot would miss even if u aimed right thu the center of enemies if it was shot on a angle.

keep the great ideas coming Notics.

Ty =) maybe karl is taking note of our ideas.

I am still waiting for the answer of karl, is there any incoming update on the LB1 before HOT release? it has been almost 2 months since he said this

Puncture Shot: We’re also looking at the base and bounce functionality

Ghotistyx.6942
Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

Your so right there it isn’t funny, adding light aura as a on hit effect to radiant retaliation is a fantastic idea, tbh i doubt if any1 actually uses radiant retaliation atm cos it needs 1k condi for it to be a gain over power.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Skyline Crash.6254:

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

i agree with this

+15% duration is good and all but you already put duration increase in 2. otherwise it looks gr8

It should be +20% cripple duration and +7% damage against cripple, just like Flame Legion runes. I’d prefer that to movement speed

Movement speed is the entire point of the rune in the context of this discussion.

Blackdeath.2607:

Ghotistyx.6942
Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

Your so right there it isn’t funny, adding light aura as a on hit effect to radiant retaliation is a fantastic idea, tbh i doubt if any1 actually uses radiant retaliation atm cos it needs 1k condi for it to be a gain over power.

You know you can click the arrow in the bottom right corner of someone’s post to quote it, right?

Isarii.2804:

Movement speed is the entire point of the rune in the context of this discussion.

Not necessarily. It’s only a proposed DH based Rune to go along with the profession based runes that currently exist. There’s nothing about the Dragonhunter that requires +25% movement speed. In fact, I’d actually change it to:
Superior Rune of the Dragonhunter
1) +25 Power
2) +10% Cripple Duration
3) +50 Power
4) 25% chance when struck to cause Cripple for 5 seconds. (10s icd)
5) +100 Power
6) +20% Cripple Duration. When you use a Trap skill, you gain 6 seconds of Aegis

Synergy with traps, blocks, and Cripple access feels much much more DH-esque.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Isarii.2804:

Movement speed is the entire point of the rune in the context of this discussion.

Not necessarily. It’s only a proposed DH based Rune to go along with the profession based runes that currently exist. There’s nothing about the Dragonhunter that requires +25% movement speed. In fact, I’d actually change it to:
Superior Rune of the Dragonhunter
1) +25 Power
2) +10% Cripple Duration
3) +50 Power
4) 25% chance when struck to cause Cripple for 5 seconds. (10s icd)
5) +100 Power
6) +20% Cripple Duration. When you use a Trap skill, you gain 6 seconds of Aegis

Synergy with traps, blocks, and Cripple access feels much much more DH-esque.

Nike’s rune suggestion is attempting to hit the most requested effects that each elite spec is asking for while also playing into the class mechanic.

And regardless of if you think we Need it or not run speed rune with power is something most requested by the guardian community.
(Personally I never see the need and just swift myself wherever I go)

I think of all of Nike’s posts this one does resonate the best for the profession.

Maybe if not OP you could put the run speed on (4) instead of the cripple applier and have +20% cripple duration and +7% damage against cripple on the (6)
But that is just the best of all worlds instead of a reasonable Choice.

Arutha.9874:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Isarii.2804:

Movement speed is the entire point of the rune in the context of this discussion.

Not necessarily. It’s only a proposed DH based Rune to go along with the profession based runes that currently exist. There’s nothing about the Dragonhunter that requires +25% movement speed. In fact, I’d actually change it to:
Superior Rune of the Dragonhunter
1) +25 Power
2) +10% Cripple Duration
3) +50 Power
4) 25% chance when struck to cause Cripple for 5 seconds. (10s icd)
5) +100 Power
6) +20% Cripple Duration. When you use a Trap skill, you gain 6 seconds of Aegis

Synergy with traps, blocks, and Cripple access feels much much more DH-esque.

Nike’s rune suggestion is attempting to hit the most requested effects that each elite spec is asking for while also playing into the class mechanic.

And regardless of if you think we Need it or not run speed rune with power is something most requested by the guardian community.
(Personally I never see the need and just swift myself wherever I go)

I think of all of Nike’s posts this one does resonate the best for the profession.

Maybe if not OP you could put the run speed on (4) instead of the cripple applier and have +20% cripple duration and +7% damage against cripple on the (6)
But that is just the best of all worlds instead of a reasonable Choice.

It’s not only requested by the guard community. Its requested by others as well.

While giving each of the new specs a corresponding rune is a great idea they could also stand to add a few new runes that simply add run speed in addition to useful offensive stats like precision, condition damage & power.

It would also be great if they were to add a new rune related to using traps or change the existing trapper rune to be a bit more universally useful. (super speed & stealth are not as useful as they sound once you figure CD’s in and the fact that thieves already have plenty of stealth & the +condition duration is kinda meh for a DH)

One more thing I forgot to mention in Nike’s objective, the rune should be useable by other professions as well.
1. Requested especially for this spec.
2. Buffs effects common on this spec.
3. Useful for other specs.

And guardian is the profession that only gets access through runes so it feels right to have it as the namesake.

But if you want to design a trap one that is good too but I think less DH would use it due to traps being less than impressive.

all runes are usable by all professions, its simply themed towards dragon hunter, Nike said he was also thinking of some variations to be themed after the other professions as well, certainly looking forward to seeing them.

Blackdeath.2607:

all runes are usable by all professions, its simply themed towards dragon hunter, Nike said he was also thinking of some variations to be themed after the other professions as well, certainly looking forward to seeing them.

Ahh they are in the other forums, for example the Tempest one is based around auras.

But that is just borderline alright as every class can achieve auras with leaps, where as if we built one that said give quickness on virtues that would not be useable by any other profession.

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

I would rather have vitality on it.

Asmodal.6489:

Jaxom.7310:

Nike.2631:

…and now for something completely different…

SUPERIOR RUNES OF THE DRAGONHUNTER

(1) +25 Power
(2) +10% cripple duration
(3) +50 Power
(4) 25% chance when struck to inflict cripple for 5 seconds. (Cooldown: 20 seconds)
(5) +100 Power
(6) +15% cripple duration, +25% move speed

((suggestion for new profession-complimentary runes for HoT))

(6) +7% dmg to crippled foes

w/ or w/o speed and i’d be a fan, maybe 5% dmg + speed

I would rather have vitality on it.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_Speed

Why isn’t procession of blades a whirl finisher?

nearlight.3064:

Why isn’t procession of blades a whirl finisher?

Why isn’kitten whirl finisher that bleeds & cripples you mean.

Trueshot Issues:

Unlike most ranged abilities in GW2, it is very easy to miss a max range Trueshot on a moving target due to the self immobilize.

In pvp, another player at 1200 range could slightly backpeddle to completely avoid the damage by watching our animations.

As such, could trueshot have 1,200 range limitation to start the cast, but allow its after cast range check reach out to 1,500 range to help it land on fleeing foes more reliably?

If this is not technically possible, increasing Trueshots range to 1,500 would help tremendously.

Swiftwynd.1685:

Trueshot Issues:

Unlike most ranged abilities in GW2, it is very easy to miss a max range Trueshot on a moving target due to the self immobilize.

In pvp, another player at 1200 range could slightly backpeddle to completely avoid the damage by watching our animations.

As such, could trueshot have 1,200 range limitation to start the cast, but allow its after cast range check reach out to 1,500 range to help it land on fleeing foes more reliably?

If this is not technically possible, increasing Trueshots range to 1,500 would help tremendously.

+1

so what changes to defenders dogma would people be like to see happen?

In order of preference:

1) changed to 25% run speed trait ( i know I’ve raid this one alot but this is more a discussion centered around defenders dogma rather then RS)

2) 50% chance When struck by a melee attack cripple all foes around you for 3seconds 10 second CD. Cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer.

3) longbow attacks have a 35% chance to cripple foes for 2seconds 2second ICD, cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer (change trait name to suit)

4) change it to refresh spear of justices CD instead with a 10second cool down.

Currently DH’s main form of cripple comes from the traps test of faith and fragments of faith, long bows ability to apply cripple is rather lacking right now as longbow can’t yet apply cripple to 1 target and can only apply it conditionally to 2. DH may bring cripple to the table for guards but i feel it hasn’t been integrated into the theme of dragon hunter as much as it should of been.

Swiftwynd.1685:

Trueshot Issues:

Unlike most ranged abilities in GW2, it is very easy to miss a max range Trueshot on a moving target due to the self immobilize.

In pvp, another player at 1200 range could slightly backpeddle to completely avoid the damage by watching our animations.

As such, could trueshot have 1,200 range limitation to start the cast, but allow its after cast range check reach out to 1,500 range to help it land on fleeing foes more reliably?

If this is not technically possible, increasing Trueshots range to 1,500 would help tremendously.

thx for re-posting this Swiftwynd.

I do really agree with this as this would add alot of realism as to why the guard must still stay to cast such a powerful shot.

again thx for a great suggestion Swiftwynd.
hope you dont mind me putting my own spin on it for a second:

If increasing true shots range isn’t able to be done how about making true shot explode in a 300 radius when it reaches 1200 ?

bow still needs more damage, especially skill 2

Blackdeath.2607:

so what changes to defenders dogma would people be like to see happen?

In order of preference:

1) changed to 25% run speed trait ( i know I’ve raid this one alot but this is more a discussion centered around defenders dogma rather then RS)

2) 50% chance When struck by a melee attack cripple all foes around you for 3seconds 10 second CD. Cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer.

3) longbow attacks have a 35% chance to cripple foes for 2seconds 2second ICD, cripple you inflict lasts 20% longer (change trait name to suit)

4) change it to refresh spear of justices CD instead with a 10second cool down.

Currently DH’s main form of cripple comes from the traps test of faith and fragments of faith, long bows ability to apply cripple is rather lacking right now as longbow can’t yet apply cripple to 1 target and can only apply it conditionally to 2. DH may bring cripple to the table for guards but i feel it hasn’t been integrated into the theme of dragon hunter as much as it should of been.

Personally I’m sick & tired of traits that encourage you to either never use your virtues or encourage you to use them all the time.
I’d (and I’m sure I’m not alone here) would love to see virtue related traits that effect the same virtue merged.

So as to defenders dogma. Leave the part already on there as is but tack on an additional effect.
Like

Defenders Dogma: Whenever you block an attack the passive effect of virtue of justice is refreshed & the active CD is reduced (by say 3-4 seconds).

This would be good weather you have a build that never wants to use the active or if you have a build that wants to use it all the time.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Blackdeath.2607:

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

It synergizes very well with the master trait that activates Signet of Wrath on VoJ use. I agree though, I’m not a fan of light aura on signets. Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

This ^.

If the signet trait was going to give anything it should be either condi removal or resistance & protection.

As is there is little reason to spec for signets as several of them suck & the loss of sustain hurts allot.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Blackdeath.2607:

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

It synergizes very well with the master trait that activates Signet of Wrath on VoJ use. I agree though, I’m not a fan of light aura on signets. Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

This ^.

If the signet trait was going to give anything it should be either condi removal or resistance & protection.

As is there is little reason to spec for signets as several of them suck & the loss of sustain hurts allot.

I’m a little late to the party here, but I do feel that Light Aura on Radiant Retaliation is an excellent idea. I think it would certainly need a bit of a duration increase as well, however.

As for Signets, I think the idea of Protection/Resistance and Condi Removal is great, but maybe a little simple? I feel as if the Signets themselves could use a little balancing as their CDs seem generally a little high for the quality of their active effects since they’re also very highly telegraphed. Given the very short duration of Light Aura some of the Signet effect an practically guarantee the enemy won’t get a chance to strike you while its up.

Whatever the decision, I feel like Perfect Inscriptions needs to be gifted an alternative bonus to make Signets less detrimental to our survivability. If they were balanced better I could see some excellent synergy occurring with the Dragonhunter.

xinkspillx.3914:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Ghotistyx.6942:

Blackdeath.2607:

Perfect inscriptions:

the addition of light aura to this trait has failed to make this a proper GM trait , most guards only use this trait to grab the extra 36 power/condi damage increase and CD reduction for signet of resolve. Currently the only signet guards possess that’s actually worth activating is signet of resolve, which makes a on activation effect rather pointless for us.

Idea : instead of light aura on activation make this trait provide 50 precision per signet not currently on cool down (maximum of 3), not sure if such a idea is too strong but something along the lines of this would be alot better then light aura.

All i can say anything other then light aura on activation would help make this trait worthy of its current slot.

It synergizes very well with the master trait that activates Signet of Wrath on VoJ use. I agree though, I’m not a fan of light aura on signets. Light aura should be an on hit effect granted from Radiant Retaliation (in addition to its current effects), while Signet use should have a different bonus.

This ^.

If the signet trait was going to give anything it should be either condi removal or resistance & protection.

As is there is little reason to spec for signets as several of them suck & the loss of sustain hurts allot.

I’m a little late to the party here, but I do feel that Light Aura on Radiant Retaliation is an excellent idea. I think it would certainly need a bit of a duration increase as well, however.

As for Signets, I think the idea of Protection/Resistance and Condi Removal is great, but maybe a little simple? I feel as if the Signets themselves could use a little balancing as their CDs seem generally a little high for the quality of their active effects since they’re also very highly telegraphed. Given the very short duration of Light Aura some of the Signet effect an practically guarantee the enemy won’t get a chance to strike you while its up.

Whatever the decision, I feel like Perfect Inscriptions needs to be gifted an alternative bonus to make Signets less detrimental to our survivability. If they were balanced better I could see some excellent synergy occurring with the Dragonhunter.

Signets in general arent that great, even with the my proposed changes.

Generally this is because of the long CD’s & cast times that bane signet, signet of mercy & signet of courage have.

The Passives of signet of mercy & courage are also meh.
Lastly the actives of mercy & courage are often outshined by other abilities that could keep an ally from needing a full heal or rez in the first place.

As a whole signets & their corresponding traits need work.

Imo light aura should include a condi clense as base line. Whirling a light field gives cleansing projectiles while leaping gives self clense, I think the only other access to light aura is the rune and this signet trait.
Then perhaps adding a Active effects are better to the GM is required also as every single one could use a buff, Immobilise on 30s, and knockdown on 40s cooldown is pretty pathetic and the tanking one could use protection also.

I think the questions we need to answer are;

• What play style do we want with Signets & Radiance?
• What play style do we want with Spirit Weapons & Zeal?
• What play style do we want with Consecrations & Virtues?

If we can come to a common consensus I think this would greatly help Arenanet.

Signets – In Combat Mobility & Symbols
My idea for Signets was a more sustain combat mobility through multiply sources of swiftness making boon strip less effective. It was also looking at adding making signets the utilities of choice for symbol builds. To achieve this I was looking at replacing Perfect Inscription’s Light Aura with creating a Symbol of Swiftness on signet activation. With Writ of Persistence this would provide some extra health sustain.

This would also tie in nicely with knockdown & immobilise providing a speed boost to help close that gap if foes are trying to run. Also if used to set up for a spike this would add extra damage, vulnerability (with Zeal) & give speed to either stick to them or more on to next objective.

Spirit Weapons – Burning & Bounded Minions
First of all this all depends on Cast Time & CD functionality improvements which provide reasonable summon up time & summon ability in melee combat. The largest change is SW are no longer self mobile but bounded to & move with the guardian. The benefits are the player directly controls the mobile position of SWs. Leaving it up to the player to remove them from AoE’s. Another aspect is the bound range would place SW within symbols allowing them to receive full benefit from symbols.

Now as SWs are bounded to the guardian they can only apply their benefit locally around the guardian making them more like a mobile symbol. To enhance SWs as a viable burning build option I would look at adjusting Expeditious Spirit so it has a use with Bow of Truth, Shield of the Avenger & any future SW heal or elite. So:

Expeditious Spirit
Spirit weapons burn foes they strike. When summoned & commanded spirit weapons remove burning from the guardian. If burning is removed the spirit weapon applies burning to nearby foes. Spirit weapon summon and command skills have reduced recharge.

Consecrations – Back Line Support
I feel what’s holding consecrations back are the CDs on Hallowed Ground & Sanctuary which are way to long to be practical. I would be very interested in how these play with a CD reduction. Another confusing fact is for a utility set tied to the Virtue Specialisation they provide very little benefit to boon or virtues game play with actually Shouts being a better fit for this game play.

I also feel Shelter could be a great option as a heal for consecrations. Consecrations & Shelter also feel very close in theme & functional gameplay which I feel could place shelter nicely into this skill category. An idea is a small adjustment to Shelter turning it into a back line support option as well. The idea is to separate the heal & the block.

Shelter (40 sec)
Consecration: Heal self & consecrate the target area blocking all attacks to allies inside.
Healing: 4,545
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2 sec
Radius: 120
Combo Field: Light
Range: 900

Bezagron.7352:

I think the questions we need to answer are;

• What play style do we want with Signets & Radiance?
• What play style do we want with Spirit Weapons & Zeal?
• What play style do we want with Consecrations & Virtues?

If we can come to a common consensus I think this would greatly help Arenanet.

Signets – In Combat Mobility & Symbols
My idea for Signets was a more sustain combat mobility through multiply sources of swiftness making boon strip less effective. It was also looking at adding making signets the utilities of choice for symbol builds. To achieve this I was looking at replacing Perfect Inscription’s Light Aura with creating a Symbol of Swiftness on signet activation. With Writ of Persistence this would provide some extra health sustain.

This would also tie in nicely with knockdown & immobilise providing a speed boost to help close that gap if foes are trying to run. Also if used to set up for a spike this would add extra damage, vulnerability (with Zeal) & give speed to either stick to them or more on to next objective.

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Spirit Weapons – Burning & Bounded Minions
First of all this all depends on Cast Time & CD functionality improvements which provide reasonable summon up time & summon ability in melee combat. The largest change is SW are no longer self mobile but bounded to & move with the guardian. The benefits are the player directly controls the mobile position of SWs. Leaving it up to the player to remove them from AoE’s. Another aspect is the bound range would place SW within symbols allowing them to receive full benefit from symbols.

Now as SWs are bounded to the guardian they can only apply their benefit locally around the guardian making them more like a mobile symbol. To enhance SWs as a viable burning build option I would look at adjusting Expeditious Spirit so it has a use with Bow of Truth, Shield of the Avenger & any future SW heal or elite. So:

Expeditious Spirit
Spirit weapons burn foes they strike. When summoned & commanded spirit weapons remove burning from the guardian. If burning is removed the spirit weapon applies burning to nearby foes. Spirit weapon summon and command skills have reduced recharge.

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Consecrations – Back Line Support
I feel what’s holding consecrations back are the CDs on Hallowed Ground & Sanctuary which are way to long to be practical. I would be very interested in how these play with a CD reduction. Another confusing fact is for a utility set tied to the Virtue Specialisation they provide very little benefit to boon or virtues game play with actually Shouts being a better fit for this game play.

I also feel Shelter could be a great option as a heal for consecrations. Consecrations & Shelter also feel very close in theme & functional gameplay which I feel could place shelter nicely into this skill category. An idea is a small adjustment to Shelter turning it into a back line support option as well. The idea is to separate the heal & the block.

Shelter (40 sec)
Consecration: Heal self & consecrate the target area blocking all attacks to allies inside.
Healing: 4,545
Number of Targets: 5
Block Duration: 2 sec
Radius: 120
Combo Field: Light
Range: 900

Hello again, trying to keep distracted from total Hype :-)

I like the idea of making signets the go to for symbol builds it would actually give quite a lot of synergy. Then zeal, radiance, honor could be a real guardian signet build.
I will support you on this if they bring up a core suggestion thread.
But how about each symbol is unique to the signet?

Heal -> Symbol of Energy at feet. (Long Bow) Vigor added to heal not game breaking.
Immobilise -> Symbol of Swiftness at feet. (Staff) 12/30s Our movement signet.
Knockdown -> Symbol of Wrath at target. (GS) DPS signet that KD to guarantee DPS.
Dam Reduction -> Symbol of Protection at target. (Hammer) Lose 10% gain Protection.
Resurrection -> Symbol of Faith at ground target. (Mace) Regen for health after res.
Elite -> Symbol of Judgement at ground target and at cast time. (Downed)
Worst thing about the full heal is it doesn’t res people but if played right this symbol could res ally then full heal them right as they stand up. And access to this powerful symbol is still restricted because of the cast time.(may need thought on cancel casting…)

Shorter on the other suggestions:
While I am not a big fan of attaching spirit weapons to the guardian, (unless they become untargettable non minion more like aura effects(due to targeting issues)) instead suggest that they bring the PvE invulnerability to AoE to all SW and add Stun break to Bow.
I do agree something should be done about Expeditious Spirit’s burn not working with utility spirit weapons. I like the transfer burn idea, it makes guardian its own counter, which could lead to hilariously high stacks of burn.

And on consecrations I described previously that I think Sanctuary should be unnerfed and made an elite instead with some other utility taking its spot. (check Spirit Weapon Heal and Other Elites thread) However about Shelter I would recommend not changing much as it is such a core staple of guardian gameplay across all forms of gameplay. Consecrations no longer have a trait related to ground targeting so Shelter is no longer the odd one out, it should remain cast on self. The only problem of making it a consecration now would be giving it a further buff of +20% duration and -20% cd.
So my recommendation is nerfing non traited Shelter(thereby buffing other heals) in a way that leaves traited shelter basically the same. 40s(32s) cooldown and 2s(2.5s) block.

Arutha.9874:

Hello again, trying to keep distracted from total Hype :-)

Yes concepting the time away till HoTs & a look at all the changes incoming. Then it be how can we use want we have, what needs fixing & any improvement that could further enhance.

I like the idea of making signets the go to for symbol builds it would actually give quite a lot of synergy. Then zeal, radiance, honor could be a real guardian signet build.
I will support you on this if they bring up a core suggestion thread.
But how about each symbol is unique to the signet?

Heal -> Symbol of Energy at feet. (Long Bow) Vigor added to heal not game breaking.
Immobilise -> Symbol of Swiftness at feet. (Staff) 12/30s Our movement signet.
Knockdown -> Symbol of Wrath at target. (GS) DPS signet that KD to guarantee DPS.
Dam Reduction -> Symbol of Protection at feet. (Hammer) Lose 10% gain Protection + Add Stun break baseline.
Resurrection -> Symbol of Faith at ground target. (Mace) Regen for health after res.
Elite -> Symbol of Judgement at ground target and at cast time. (Downed)
Worst thing about the full heal is it doesn’t res people but if played right this symbol could res ally then full heal them right as they stand up. And access to this powerful symbol is still restricted because of the cast time.(may need thought on cancel casting…)

I was thinking about differing symbols for each signet but felt the trait started to get to complex. The reason I went for Symbol of Swiftness for all signets was that it actually plays well with most circumstances & instants you would currently be using a signet active skill. Swiftness on knockdown or immobilise would help greatly when chasing helping to close the gap faster. On Heal & Signet of Judgement (Stun Break) it will help in escaping & repositioning. The objective was you sacrifice passive stat bonuses for mobility.

Although I won’t be against each signet having it’s own associated symbol.

Arutha.9874:

Shorter on the other suggestions:
While I am not a big fan of attaching spirit weapons to the guardian, (unless they become untargettable non minion more like aura effects(due to targeting issues)) instead suggest that they bring the PvE invulnerability to AoE to all SW and add Stun break to Bow.
I do agree something should be done about Expeditious Spirit’s burn not working with utility spirit weapons. I like the transfer burn idea, it makes guardian its own counter, which could lead to hilariously high stacks of burn.

I think there’s many advantages to bounded SWs that greatly out weigh the weakness to AoEs.

• Be able to apply symbol boons easier to SWs.
• Targeting noise making it harder to target the guardian.
• SWs count towards AoE target limits mean allies might not receive any damage.
• SWs will act like mobile symbols allowing for better positional control over command ability placement & help focus their damage in one place.

Add in the new changes to minions in PvE with 95% damage reduction if not main target & I think your found a unique gameplay between Necro minions & gyros.

I definitely agree SWs GM trait needs to benefit all SWs including non attacking ones. There’s almost no point to it for Bow of Truth & Shield of the Avenger. I like the idea that a SW condition build has control over burning (to foes & self).

Arutha.9874:

And on consecrations I described previously that I think Sanctuary should be unnerfed and made an elite instead with some other utility taking its spot. (check Spirit Weapon Heal and Other Elites thread) However about Shelter I would recommend not changing much as it is such a core staple of guardian gameplay across all forms of gameplay. Consecrations no longer have a trait related to ground targeting so Shelter is no longer the odd one out, it should remain cast on self. The only problem of making it a consecration now would be giving it a further buff of +20% duration and -20% cd.
So my recommendation is nerfing non traited Shelter(thereby buffing other heals) in a way that leaves traited shelter basically the same. 40s(32s) cooldown and 2s(2.5s) block.

I was actually looking at basically keeping the core function of Shelter & buff it so the blocking part could be used on allies at a distance if needed. I was looking at leaving the heal as a self heal & having the same current heal values. The trick to use it in it’s current form would be the quick self casting. A large buff was that you could now use abilities while blocking attacks. I actually don’t feel this is to strong a heal if adjusted to this & would slot smoothly into consecration back line support gameplay.

Regarding Sanctuary I feel this has been left behind with the development of GW2 combat over the years. Although it was strong near release it is next to useless these days. I would like to see the radius slightly increase so that standing in the centre a player can not be attacked from melee from a foe just standing outside sanctuary. I would also like to see resistance added providing this feeling of being in a sanctuary & also allowing the small heal to have some benefit even if loaded with conditions but doesn’t remove conditions.

The consecration back line support is about providing your allies breathing room. I would like to see current utilities stay as the utilities & shelter become the heal with a new elite that allows the teleportation of allies back to you to help allow those clutch plays. So it can’t be used to troll allies, like portal allies would be required to interact with it (“F”). Not sure what other benefits it could provide if it needs some.

Bezagron.7352:

I was thinking about differing symbols for each signet but felt the trait started to get to complex.
Although I won’t be against each signet having it’s own associated symbol.

I think this would be similar to the engi traits Streamlined Kits and Gadgeteer which both give unique additions to multiple skills in a utility type, so I think this would give Signets more build variations since different Signets have different purposes, swift, dps, prot, etc.

I think there’s many advantages to bounded SWs that greatly out weigh the weakness to AoEs.

• Be able to apply symbol boons easier to SWs.
• Targeting noise making it harder to target the guardian.
• SWs count towards AoE target limits mean allies might not receive any damage.
• SWs will act like mobile symbols allowing for better positional control over command ability placement & help focus their damage in one place.

Add in the new changes to minions in PvE with 95% damage reduction if not main target & I think your found a unique gameplay between Necro minions & gyros.

A little greedy imo, we want to go from below power curve to just balanced. I think the 95% reduction on AoE will already make them really powerful without changing anything else about mechanics. (besides the speed and following buffs Gyro got)
And also you list “Targeting noise making it harder to target the guardian.” as an advantage. . . This is the only reason that PvP HATES minion builds, do think about discouraging it more instead of encouraging it. That is the single reason is why I think this is a Bad idea.

I was actually looking at basically keeping the core function of Shelter & buff it so the blocking part could be used on allies at a distance if needed.

Finally I think you are missing some interactions that will change the skill to something very different.
The skill has a 2 second cast time, with the heal only at the end, so you couldn’t cast other things during it.
If the Block is ground targeted you couldn’t move while casting the heal, and if you mean anyone in the circle gets the Block shield attached to them, then that would be a way overbuff.

Arutha.9874:

I think this would be similar to the engi traits Streamlined Kits and Gadgeteer which both give unique additions to multiple skills in a utility type, so I think this would give Signets more build variations since different Signets have different purposes, swift, dps, prot, etc.

True, I still lean towards just symbol of swiftness as I really like to idea of all that swiftness access but I would take either option & can see large benefits for both. My original thoughts regarding the addition of symbols & some skill changes are below for signets:

Perfect Inscriptions
Sears a Symbol of swiftness at your location on signet activation. Signets recharge faster & have improved passive effects Original symbol idea.

Signet of Mercy
Signet of Mercy Passive: Increase boon duration by 25%.

Signet of Mercy Active: Grant Regeneration (8 seconds) & resistance (5 seconds) to nearby allies. Cast time 3/4 second, CD 75 seconds.

Signet of Courage
Signet of Courage Passive: Radiate healing to nearby allies every second (about 15% of what it does now every 10 seconds) , (360 radius)

Signet of Courage Active: Grant protection (6 seconds) to nearby allies and heal them (say around 3-4k with moderate-high healing power) . Radius 360, cast time 3/4 second, CD 150 seconds. If ally is in down state they rally (with half health not receiving the heal).

Going with Differing Symbols
I would still like the above changes to Mercy & Courage & if they had these changes & received different symbols I would be looking similar to your idea:

• Signet of Resolve: Symbol of Energy
• Bane Signet: Symbol of Swiftness – Swapped with Symbol of Wrath because they’s little benefit gained with retaliation for knockdowned foes were swiftness should help in closing the gap faster.
• Signet of Wrath: Symbol of Wrath – Swapped with Symbol of Swiftness as immobilise foes can still attack providing greater benefit from retaliation, we do lose some swiftness uptime.
• Signet of Judgement: Symbol of Protection
• Signet of Mercy: Symbol of Judgement – Swapped with Symbol of Faith to provide reviving of allies back to this skill as with skill changes made little sense added to courage.
• Signet of Courage: Symbol of Faith – Swapped with Symbol of Judgement as the active now revives

Arutha.9874:

A little greedy imo, we want to go from below power curve to just balanced. I think the 95% reduction on AoE will already make them really powerful without changing anything else about mechanics. (besides the speed and following buffs Gyro got)
And also you list “Targeting noise making it harder to target the guardian.” as an advantage. . . This is the only reason that PvP HATES minion builds, do think about discouraging it more instead of encouraging it. That is the single reason is why I think this is a Bad idea.

I can see the targeting HATE but thought tab targeting was fixed so it always targets players first, only making this an issue for click targeting. I would also be interested to see how action camera mode targeting options plays out. Also the new ground target snap to target setting would most likely mean any ground target at SWs would also hit the guardian.

I also think a lot of the hate came about because of the passive benefits that greatly enhanced spirit rangers allowing 11111s plus the visible screen noise making tells hard to see & that there was next to no point with killing the spirits because they would just summon them straight away (no spirit CD time when build first started unless killed twice).

The thing to remember with the 95% damage reduction that is only for PvE monsters with players still applying full damage to all minions. So this has no change to WvW & sPvP. So I can see the player being able to reposition SWs out of damaging effects & tighter control over command ability placement as a larger benefit. It also means if they are locked down your typically also going to also take out their SWs just from cleave. SW builds have very little innate defences against stun & condition builds (Seen little benefit with currnet Bow of Truth but might be stronger when bound near you. So the objective would be kill the bow first).

For me the noise is both a benefit & a great weakness as any typical cleave or AoE hitting guardian will also hit your SWs & any typical cleave or AoE hitting your SWs will also be hitting the guardian. I also don’t see having typically more then 2 SWs summoned viable game play as without any SWs SW builds would have little survivability.

Lastly the aspect of binding them was to remove part of that NPC interaction feeling which is at the heart of why PvPers HATE minions. As they what to fight the person not some computer AI.

I would like to at least test it but I think we both have different opinions regard the targeting noise. But I’m definitely up for making the GM a benefit for all SWs & looking for improvements to them as Judgement was one of my favour concept image of guardians at release which was also were I came up with the bound idea.

Arutha.9874:

Finally I think you are missing some interactions that will change the skill to something very different.
The skill has a 2 second cast time, with the heal only at the end, so you couldn’t cast other things during it.
If the Block is ground targeted you couldn’t move while casting the heal, and if you mean anyone in the circle gets the Block shield attached to them, then that would be a way overbuff.

Yes I’m looking at turning the block into a targeted ground effect that benefits 5 allies (or you & 4 allies). I’ve changed my mind on allowing ability use & gone back to a channelled skill with the heal occurring after the channel.

The idea is if used at range to help allies the guardian doesn’t need the block. If used over self it basically functions the same as Shelter now & can block for allies close by (very close).

This is quite a large buff as it can now benefit allies but I feel the ability provides many opportunities for counter play:

• Interrupting the channel stops the heal & the blocking effect.
• Using unblockable bypasses the defence this skill provides.
• Small radius mean allies will need to group close together if they want to benefit making them great targets for cleave & AoEs once effect wares off or is interrupted.
• If used to protect allies you will be using you heal skill meaning you will no longer have access to your heal if need while on CD making you now a great target to take down.

I would look at increasing the base CD to 40 sec making it 32 sec with CD reduction & I don’t think a 0.4 sec longer channelled block is to strong. Overall I think it keeps much of it’s current game play while opening up many more options but each option comes at a cost. It would also round off consecration back line support game play extremely nicely. Basically I’m looking at consecrations providing small windows of breathing space for allies which will feel greatly different to the support Shouts provides.

I hope we get some nice threads next week where we can make these suggestions, I do like what we made of symbol signet guardian.
A real spec I would be excited to have.

And spirit weapons will get their day sometime soon as we are just here to give potential ideas to devs I think we have done a good job.

I wish everyone good luck with the expansion! It will be amazing I do not doubt!!! Hype train has arrived! :-D

Arutha.9874:

I hope we get some nice threads next week where we can make these suggestions, I do like what we made of symbol signet guardian.
A real spec I would be excited to have.

And spirit weapons will get their day sometime soon as we are just here to give potential ideas to devs I think we have done a good job.

I wish everyone good luck with the expansion! It will be amazing I do not doubt!!! Hype train has arrived! :-D

Same, good luck & enjoy all! Train is here were just waiting for the doors to open!

So the patch notes don’t list the boons being granted by the traps. Gonna be testing this out shortly.

Nike.2631:

So the patch notes don’t list the boons being granted by the traps. Gonna be testing this out shortly.

The patch notes didn’t list any of the changes to elite specs from the previous beta, far as I could see. All they listed were the descriptions for the weapon skills, profession mechanics, and utilities of each elite spec. Probably because, since they’re new to some people (and technically new to the core game period, since previous things were beta), having a huge section of “changes” wouldn’t really make sense.

Hopefully Anet plans on coming in and giving us a full rundown on each professions’ changes at some point here in the individual forums. I’m sure some of the stuff we can suss out on our own, but it’d be nice to have a comprehensive list of which changes made it into the live release.

Here’s my synopsis of the DH thus far.

Traps: From a dps perspective, this is only useful with Trapper runes. Without these, an offensive Guardian using traps won’t be optimal. Bunker is another story.

Long Bow: Solid dmg and control but no real defensive capabilities when someone gets in your face unlike other ranged weapons(Rifle kb, LB on ranger with stealth and kb.)

Traits:

Adepts:

-Piercing light helps a ton when running a near-full trap build but again, without trapper runes, it becomes a chore/dangerous.

Soaring Devastation: solid damage but goes against the theme that is dragonhunter with a bow. I’m supposed to want to stay at ranged, not move closer.

Dulled Senses: Subpar compared to the top two. Without constant kb’s, you’ll never see these conditions applied consistently enough

Masters:

Hunter’s Determination: Excellent for bunker Guardians

Zealot’s Aggression: Not bad but it discourages you from popping your active, this needs to be adjusted.

Bulwark: Shield of Courage is on an unnecessarily long cd for being primarily selfish. Baseline should be reduced and this maybe reduce it further.

Grand masters:

Hunter’s Fortification: This one feels very weak. VERY difficult to keep the 10% mitigation up since everything sneezes conditions and in comparison to say Adaptive armor which is always up and is always rewarding, this feels very weak in comparison.

Heavy Light: Just like Hunter’s Fort, feels very weak and heavily rng-based. This should also be overhauled.

Big Game Hunter: Just like the other two, it feels very weak and if you’re running Zealot’s aggression, you’ll never utilize this. The damage modifier is small for a gm.

Overall: Traps are good for bunkers, very situational for dps. Long bow feels solid for it’s dmg and cc but has no defensive capabilities like some other ranged counterparts. Traits overall feel relatively weak, especially the gm’s.