Guild Wars 2

Good changes overall and I’m glad to see blades get an overall damage buff (it needed it badly). The Dragon Maw change is also pretty godly.

My only quick adjustment I would recommend is rather than making tethered enemies pull to you (which is kind of the opposite idea of what we want as ranged dps) - why not make it immob for 2 sec?

This is all great news, but Pure of Sight is still missing the point that everyone’s complaining about. Not to mention a damage modifier for a minor is completely uninspired.
Just roll the damage over the threshold to either baseline bow or heavy light, and give us something new for a trait we are forced to take.

I like these! Thanks Karl!
I’m sure more tweaks will come but this is a good step. =D

Like the changes, love justice new mechanic.
Great job karl, keep it up!

Oh getting better, thanks. But as always I wont sing victory until a month passes after being implemented, cause you know… inb4 nerfs LOL

Karl, I kittenin love you man! Amazing changes, the hype is real this time!

Why is there no 25% MS buff?

Amaya.1483:

Why is there no 25% MS buff?

This

I can understand why they dont want to give guardians a speed buff, but there still needs to be something diferent on the grandmaster minor imo.

Why is there no 25% MS buff?

Because we’re playing Guardians and Guardians don’t get selfish movement speed. All their MS comes from applying swiftness to themselves and allies, which Dragonhunter can do. Asking for everything other classes have dilutes our identity. Part of picking a Guardian is that you don’t get a selfish movement speed trait, just like you don’t get poison or bleeding either. Wings of Resolve already adds a lot of mobility to the otherwise least-mobile class short of Necromancers.

I find it ironic that many people complain that Anet or Karl don’t understand Guardians, then say that what Dragonhunter needs is a selfish movespeed trait. Guardian’s solutions to catching enemies are leaps, immobilizes, and pulls, not movement speed. Between Wings of Resolve, Longbow five, and the new Spear of Justice, Dragonhunter has gotten all three.

Amazing change on the Spear of Justice! Thank you!

Wouldn’t it be better if Light’s Judgement placed a Debuff on an enemy that applies the reveal periodically so that they can be constantly revealed even if they run away? (forced disengagement for stealth reliant builds) The Vulnerability can be changed to a 1 time application when the trap triggers (along with an increased duration if needed).

Also, imo, remove the cripple from fragments of faith and add it to Procession blades instead. 1 sec cripple per strike (10 hits total) would make it work extremely well with Dulled senses, since it would make it apply 10 vulnerability in rapid succession.

Hunter’s Verdict is great.

The boons are a nice touch. Just one trap with condi cleanse would have made me super excited about the change, but overall a positive direction.

i’ll leave the guardian mains to go more in depth on the effect of those changes, but i wanted to give my two cents:

• boons on trap activation is good, and gives them more utility, but it’s kind of boring. like a lazy solution to give them more interesting play. but then again, it’s guardian we’re talking about, boons galore is their thing, so that adds some synergy between core guard and them.

• the healing trap really needs to be looked into. as it is, it’s completely useless because you’re relying on your opponent to trigger it for you. anyone with a ranged weapon and half a brain knows that, no matter how hard the dragonhunter hits from range, if they can’t heal themselves, they’re more likely to die than you are. my suggestion is either make the trap trigger on allies passing through (like healing spring), swap the two parts of the heal around (bulk of the heal on set-up, bonus heal on activation), or both. that would make me actually consider that trap over shelter or litany of wrath.

Thank you for the changes! I absolutely can’t wait to try out the justice pull. If i remember right the range of the tether is 1,200, right? So it’s as long as magnet pull? Since it’s unblockable it might let you interrupt other guards using shelter.

It’s gonna feel real good to pull 3 enemies at 1,200 range right into 3 or 4 traps exploding all over their faces.

The fragmentation change sounds like it might make it a nice utility for any guardian spec since it gives not just a stun break, but cripple, aegis and stability. I really appreciate the buff to procession of blades and dragon’s maw. With the damage increase to procession, and fury and might from maw and blades, it might make a very bursty trap, if you also include test of faith also getting an initial burst of damage on activation as well.

Purification with regen sounds ok (condition cleanses might have been more useful), but i’m not really feeling light’s judgement. Still feels like you’re better off killing a stealth user as fast as possible rather than taking this trap that lets them restealth if they get out of the trap. Might be a good troll if you happen to hit them with justice beforehand and then pull them back in to reveal them again.

I give these changes two thumbs up though. Thanks again.

Karl McLain.5604:

• New skill: Hunter’s Verdict
• Hunter’s Verdict: Pull all tethered enemies to you, breaking the tether. This ability’s cooldown (40s) is separate to that of Justice.
• Procession of Blades: Increased damage per attack by roughly 20%. This trap now grants Fury for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Fragments of Faith: Fixed this trap striking multiple times. Base damage has been reduced by 40% and is no longer unblockable. This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered. note: The design of this trap is moving back toward its defensive nature and has much more functionality than before, thus the reduction in overall damage.
• Test of Faith: This ability is now instant and grants protection for 6 seconds when triggered. Additionally, it now strikes enemies for 66% of its full damage when it triggers.
• Light’s Judgment: This trap now grants Swiftness for 10 seconds when triggered. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 30.
• Purification: This trap now grants regeneration for 10 seconds when triggered.
• Dragon’s Maw: This trap now grants 10 stacks of might for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Pure of Sight: This trait now grants bonus damage of 7% from 0-600 range, 13% beyond 600 range.

Once again, thanks for the constructive feedback through the beta weekends.

Cheers,
-Karl

1. I like the idea of the Hunter’s Verdict, but I feel like a Knockback instead of a Pull mechanic would be more appropriate to synergize with Dulled Senses and fit the theme of the range play from Longbow. I kinda just see a bad RNG situation where Heavy Pull is going to proc when you’re trying to pull an enemy towards you and you’re going to end up negating yourself.

2. The issue of Wings of Resolve clearing immobilize AFTER the cast is done is very unfortunate. That combined with the fact that Wings of Resolve (Virtue of Resolve) gains a 1 second cast time simply by going into the Dragonhunter trait line feels like a punishment.

3. The Boons added to the traps are nice, but I would much rather see some usage of the new Resistance boon added to the traps, maybe even as a GM trait, similar to how Monk’s Focus operates for Meditations. That might be overkill, but Resistance on the Purification Trap seems like a must have given the highly reactive nature of a Trap Heal.

4. I definitely agree with the lack of satisfaction with Pure of Sight. I feel like there should be something interesting there… For instance, Pure of Sight would allow Longbow projectiles to cleanse conditions from allies they pass through. Something a little more alluring than a damage modifier.

Hunter’s Verdict: amazing, sometimes not worth using due to Fiery Wrath/Big Game Hunter, but still a really cool mechanic that adds to the hunting aspects of the Dragonhunter.

Procession of Blades: Having this trap do roughly the same about of damage as Whirling Wrath makes it a really tempting trap and definitely one that will be taken when damage is of importance. The Fury is the cherry on top.

Fragments of Faith: Having the standard Stunbreak per skill type with Fragments of Faith works really well on this defensive Trap, so it’s very welcome. The damage being nerfed is perfectly understandable since another defensive measure was added as Stability, and a defensive Trap isn’t really supposed to damage a lot.

Light’s Judgment: Some nice Swiftness to catch those pesky stealthed Thieves/Mesmers. Not outstanding but nice.

Purification: More love for the healing skill, always nice a buff to compete with the almighty Shelter.

Dragon’s Maw: I’m not quite sure this Trap was holding more than one enemy during the BWE3, but the 10 Might stacks are very welcome.

Pure of Sight: Solid, amazing change to a damage modifier. Not only caters to the Melee crowd, one of which I am, but also benefits rangers even more while not damaging the people who will hunt dragons up close.

What an overall great way to make Traps really cater to Guardian players by buffing them to a level that makes them really, really good, but not something that would frustrate players that would fight the Dragonhunter in environments such as PvP.

The only thing that’s been concerning the Guardian community is the lack of a 25% damage boost, when Revenant has a Facet that gives permanent Swiftness, Mesmer in Chronomancer got a minor trait with passive 25% speed bonus and almost everyone else having a passive 25% speed bonus while making Guardian take Traveler’s for that.

Also, if it wouldn’t be much to ask, making the Cripple on Puncture Arrow not need a second target could help a lot towards the Longbow aspect of the Dragonhunter, and maybe adding one more bounce could be good.

Right now, the speed is my only concern, the rest looks incredible.

New Pure of Sight is less dead weight, but still kind of misses the point. :/

Pull looks really good. I don’t see why there’s an issue with potential synergy with Renewed Justice though. It’s on kill, so you’ll never be pulling an enemy more than once, and furthermore that’s exactly the kind of synergy DH needs with the base class.

Boons should be applied when traps are placed, not triggered. This doesn’t really do anything to change the fact that they’re too difficult to use effectively.

Good changes, but still just not enough. Traits need more work.

I really like the spear of Justice change (although a little smaller cd would be nice)
Fragements of Faith also sounds awesome too.
Some things that could still be improved:

-Make Traps groundtarget

-The condi clear on the GM was bugged last Beta. pls fix

-Make the heal trap activate on allies like rangers heal trap(even then it would rarely see use i guess)

-I would really like an evade frame on Wings of Resolve. being 1 second in stuck in air sucks and makes you really vunerable. This skill will get interrupted most of the time.

Darmikau.9413:

Why is there no 25% MS buff?

Because we’re playing Guardians and Guardians don’t get selfish movement speed. All their MS comes from applying swiftness to themselves and allies, which Dragonhunter can do. Asking for everything other classes have dilutes our identity. Part of picking a Guardian is that you don’t get a selfish movement speed trait, just like you don’t get poison or bleeding either. Wings of Resolve already adds a lot of mobility to the otherwise least-mobile class short of Necromancers.

I find it ironic that many people complain that Anet or Karl don’t understand Guardians, then say that what Dragonhunter needs is a selfish movespeed trait. Guardian’s solutions to catching enemies are leaps, immobilizes, and pulls, not movement speed. Between Wings of Resolve, Longbow five, and the new Spear of Justice, Dragonhunter has gotten all three.

SO selfish beeing at par with other classes, you so right… kappa.

I feel like there’s gonna be some pretty serious power creep with these changes

Bacon.1835:

I feel like there’s gonna be some pretty serious power creep with these changes

The only really big enough one is the tether pull, which already has a separate CD than the virtue itself so they can be balanced differently.

On a side note, can wings of resolve please be a leap finisher? It doesn’t make sense it’s not with that animation.

#BelieveInKarl

Hello Karl, and good job on the changes. I think you nailed the traps this time around and they will see plays.

If you are “looking” for any other changes to do, do consider the core guardian and its weapons. The shield changes are great and I think they are on par with the other off-hands now.

If you can, I’d like if you could look into sword, especially it’s chain attack. The third hit causes projectiles but it’s not working in a good way. The revenant just got its auto-attack chain changed to physical attack instead of letting out projectiles and I’d hope you could do the same with the guardian.

I’d also like if you could take a look into the third skill of the sword, Zealot’s Defense, and take a look around the rooting if it’s needed, or perhaps change something else, like the projectiles coming out hits the target, like actually homing to it.

Thanks.

Better then what it was.

However many of the traits could still stand to see some adjustments & some of them could still stand to be merged & or scrapped completely for something new.

As for the traps. The idea of giving them boons on trigger was nice & widely supported.

That being said the lack of condition cleanse, the reliance on an enemy triggering your heal & the lack of condition application hurts.
The boons that a few of them apply are also questionable due to the fact they are again triggered by enemies.

Over all an improvement but there is still a ton of work that needs to be done if the spec & its utilities are going to compete with existing stuff.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all,
Here’s a list of new stuff we’ve got going as we draw closer to launch. Traps are gaining a functionality and are branching out just a tad bit, granting boons to the guardian when the trap is triggered.
We’ve also been evaluating a secondary ability for Spear of Justice, which will pull all tethered enemies toward you, should you desire. In testing with the interaction of Radiance’s Justice refresh mechanic, we felt like this would blow out in quite a few scenarios. Thus, the cooldown of this secondary is separate from Justice itself, allowing for adjustments more freely. Renewed Focus does recharge this ability.

• New skill: Hunter’s Verdict
• Hunter’s Verdict: Pull all tethered enemies to you, breaking the tether. This ability’s cooldown (40s) is separate to that of Justice.
• Procession of Blades: Increased damage per attack by roughly 20%. This trap now grants Fury for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Fragments of Faith: Fixed this trap striking multiple times. Base damage has been reduced by 40% and is no longer unblockable. This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered. note: The design of this trap is moving back toward its defensive nature and has much more functionality than before, thus the reduction in overall damage.
• Test of Faith: This ability is now instant and grants protection for 6 seconds when triggered. Additionally, it now strikes enemies for 66% of its full damage when it triggers.
• Light’s Judgment: This trap now grants Swiftness for 10 seconds when triggered. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 30.
• Purification: This trap now grants regeneration for 10 seconds when triggered.
• Dragon’s Maw: This trap now grants 10 stacks of might for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Pure of Sight: This trait now grants bonus damage of 7% from 0-600 range, 13% beyond 600 range.

Once again, thanks for the constructive feedback through the beta weekends.

Cheers,
-Karl

These changes are the sort of thing I know some of us were definitely looking for. There are some aspects I’m very unsure about, but overall I’m quite happy.
While they don’t directly address the mechanical issues surrounding Traps, I love that the Dragonhunter is getting a unique relationship to them. It feels appropriate.
Some more detailed thoughts:

Trap Changes – Thank you so much for expanding the functionality of Traps. This makes them feel far more in line with the Guardian’s core essence and boons are always welcome!

Hunter’s Verdict – I like this idea very much and I feel like it goes a very very long way toward improving the Dragonhunter thematically as well. I’m extremely anxious to give this a try!

Procession of Blades – Exactly what I wanted & Fury seems quite appropriate for a rapid strike skill.

Fragments of Faith – While disappointed to see us lose any damage I definitely think it’s justified with the defensive nature of this skill and having it now be a stun break and grant stability is excellent!

Test of Faith – This change sounds worthwhile and coupled with the addition of protection it certainly ensures at least some use from this skill. (Sorry, it seems in my excitement I misread this change as being a reduction of damage for crossing the threshold to 66%, not the addition that this change actually is).

Light’s Judgement – This is pretty underwhelming to be honest. I understand the concept behind this . . . but the Trap itself is pretty weak and I’m not sure the CD reduction or addition of swiftness will make it worthwhile.

*Purification * – I felt like the amount of healing from this skill was fine. The addition of Regeneration is nice, but I know that since there are many people who probably won’t be taking the Hunter’s Fortification grandmaster, it wouldn’t hurt to put at least 1 little condi cleanse on Purification.

Dragon’s Maw – 10 stacks of might is nice, but it definitely does not address the fact that the trap itself doesn’t do very much damage.

Pure of Sight – Well, it’s nice for Melee to no longer be excluded here, but it’s most certainly still a very boring trait! It’s a straight damage increase so it’s a little rudimentary in concept, I think. Still, this is much better than it was!

I still have a few concerns about the longbow and I’m not totally convinced that this will improve Traps enough to compensate for the issues they pose, but I think I can finally say that I feel like the Dragonhunter is in an overall pretty usable place.

Thanks to Karl and all the other Devs for not making us wait too long! You’re doing good work, even if not everyone agrees. What counts is that you’re trying.

Any chance we’ll see more changes before launch or is this about it for now?

EDIT: Because I misread the change to Test of Faith.

Traps and virtues are better. Traits still need some work (and again, please add a movement speed trait given the range/melee hybrid nature of Dragonhunter).

Good QoL changes on the traps. I am still cautious about them being worthwhile in sPvP, but it is a good compromise.

To clarify, the wording of Fragments of Faith: “This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered.” This does mean it will be a stun break, correct? Not “it breaks stun when triggered?” I just want to be sure.

I like the flavor of Hunter’s Verdict, I’m looking forward to getting to use it. The damage buff to Pure of Sight might give us enough reliable damage modifiers to compete with the other core specializations. I don’t think this will shift the meta away from GS/Mace+Torch, but it might provide an alternative that isn’t too far off.

However, I see no commentary on the really, really high opportunity cost of DH Virtues. I see their potential and understand the relative value of the skills compared to baseline guardian virtues. HOWEVER, the DH virtues almost completely invalidate the investment in the Virtues line. Many of those traits function so well only because they were usable inside of a stun/cc, etc.

That said, the Virtues line has almost reached the level that “Arcane” was with regards to guardian builds. Almost every single guardian build worth its salt is running Virtues. It’s really not a choice. As far as core Guardian changes go, I feel like this is one of the biggest opportunities.

I understand the lack of time to iterate, but I hope you guys keep these things in mind moving forward in to and after HoT goes live.

Did the root on Longbow 2 get removed yet? Someone wake me up when that’s done and the spec isn’t soul-crushing to use in combat.

Great changes on traps and spear of justice! If it isn’t proven to be too OP perhaps the cd on the pull could be lowered or effected by refreshing justice in radiance. Also the trait defender’s dogma still seems out of place in a traitline that encourages the active use of virtues.
Like others said a % modifier is nice & all but perhaps add something unique to Pure of Sight if you guys have spare time. Lastly any chance of getting a whirl finisher on procession of blades? Keep up the good work guys!

For the love of all that’s holy, please add a +25% move speed effect to one of the Minors in Dragonhunter. I’d really like to be able to remove Retreat from my bar while just running around the map. Otherwise I really like these changes, although I still find the Master Minor (Justice reaches max charge when you block) to be very underwhelming, so it’s a good candidate to add the +25% move speed to.

I like everything I’m reading. Would still be nice to know if you guys are working on fixing the Hunter’s Fortification grandmaster, but I think that’s moving traps in the right direction. Definitely still worth it to slot Hunter’s Determination, FoF will give me the stunbreak I’m missing by dropping virtues.

Especially excited for Hunter’s Verdict, would it go in the F4 slot?

Hunter’s Verdict is a fantastic flip skill that will give the traitline some great synergy for a variety of builds.

The Guardian has several ways to keep enemies away through weapon skills or the Longbow knockback trait.

Finally a new pull tied to a class mechanic, more than just GS5 is a welcome addition.

Rather good changes all round and pure of sight is still boring but effectively reframed to include melee builds. Thanks!

BrunoBRS.5178:

• the healing trap really needs to be looked into. as it is, it’s completely useless because you’re relying on your opponent to trigger it for you. anyone with a ranged weapon and half a brain knows that, no matter how hard the dragonhunter hits from range, if they can’t heal themselves, they’re more likely to die than you are. my suggestion is either make the trap trigger on allies passing through (like healing spring), swap the two parts of the heal around (bulk of the heal on set-up, bonus heal on activation), or both. that would make me actually consider that trap over shelter or litany of wrath.

Rangers are not using Healing Spring as much as before for this very reason

xinkspillx.3914:

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all,
Here’s a list of new stuff we’ve got going as we draw closer to launch. Traps are gaining a functionality and are branching out just a tad bit, granting boons to the guardian when the trap is triggered.
We’ve also been evaluating a secondary ability for Spear of Justice, which will pull all tethered enemies toward you, should you desire. In testing with the interaction of Radiance’s Justice refresh mechanic, we felt like this would blow out in quite a few scenarios. Thus, the cooldown of this secondary is separate from Justice itself, allowing for adjustments more freely. Renewed Focus does recharge this ability.

• New skill: Hunter’s Verdict
• Hunter’s Verdict: Pull all tethered enemies to you, breaking the tether. This ability’s cooldown (40s) is separate to that of Justice.
• Procession of Blades: Increased damage per attack by roughly 20%. This trap now grants Fury for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Fragments of Faith: Fixed this trap striking multiple times. Base damage has been reduced by 40% and is no longer unblockable. This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered. note: The design of this trap is moving back toward its defensive nature and has much more functionality than before, thus the reduction in overall damage.
• Test of Faith: This ability is now instant and grants protection for 6 seconds when triggered. Additionally, it now strikes enemies for 66% of its full damage when it triggers.
• Light’s Judgment: This trap now grants Swiftness for 10 seconds when triggered. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 30.
• Purification: This trap now grants regeneration for 10 seconds when triggered.
• Dragon’s Maw: This trap now grants 10 stacks of might for 8 seconds when triggered.
• Pure of Sight: This trait now grants bonus damage of 7% from 0-600 range, 13% beyond 600 range.

Once again, thanks for the constructive feedback through the beta weekends.

Cheers,
-Karl

These changes are the sort of thing I know some of us were definitely looking for. There are some aspects I’m very unsure about, but overall I’m quite happy.
While they don’t directly address the mechanical issues surrounding Traps, I love that the Dragonhunter is getting a unique relationship to them. It feels appropriate.
Some more detailed thoughts:

Trap Changes – Thank you so much for expanding the functionality of Traps. This makes them feel far more in line with the Guardian’s core essence and boons are always welcome!

Hunter’s Verdict – I like this idea very much and I feel like it goes a very very long way toward improving the Dragonhunter thematically as well. I’m extremely anxious to give this a try!

Procession of Blades – Exactly what I wanted & Fury seems quite appropriate for a rapid strike skill.

Fragments of Faith – While disappointed to see us lose any damage I definitely think it’s justified with the defensive nature of this skill and having it now be a stun break and grant stability is excellent!

Test of Faith – While protection is a pretty powerful effect, I am concerned about the decrease in damage from this skill. I’ll reserve judgement for now, but this may prove to be too weak to worth it now.

Light’s Judgement – This is pretty underwhelming to be honest. I understand the concept behind this . . . but the Trap itself is pretty weak and I’m not sure the CD reduction or addition of swiftness will make it worthwhile.

*Purification * – I felt like the amount of healing from this skill was fine. The addition of Regeneration is nice, but I know that since there are many people who probably won’t be taking the Hunter’s Fortification grandmaster, it wouldn’t hurt to put at least 1 little condi cleanse on Purification.

Dragon’s Maw – 10 stacks of might is nice, but it definitely does not address the fact that the trap itself doesn’t do very much damage.

Pure of Sight – Well, it’s nice for Melee to no longer be excluded here, but it’s most certainly still a very boring trait! It’s a straight damage increase so it’s a little rudimentary in concept, I think. Still, this is much better than it was!

I still have a few concerns about the longbow and I’m not totally convinced that this will improve Traps enough to compensate for the issues they pose, but I think I can finally say that I feel like the Dragonhunter is in an overall pretty usable place.

Thanks to Karl and all the other Devs for not making us wait too long! You’re doing good work, even if not everyone agrees. What counts is that you’re trying.

Any chance we’ll see more changes before launch or is this about it for now?

im pretty sure he meant that it does 66% of the damage in the beginning as burst damage; the damage from them crossing isnt changed.

everything looks great except for:

root on skill 2 LB
no movement speed buff

but alas, i dont think we gon get those changes

regardless, good job Karl!

arkealia.2713:

BrunoBRS.5178:

• the healing trap really needs to be looked into. as it is, it’s completely useless because you’re relying on your opponent to trigger it for you. anyone with a ranged weapon and half a brain knows that, no matter how hard the dragonhunter hits from range, if they can’t heal themselves, they’re more likely to die than you are. my suggestion is either make the trap trigger on allies passing through (like healing spring), swap the two parts of the heal around (bulk of the heal on set-up, bonus heal on activation), or both. that would make me actually consider that trap over shelter or litany of wrath.

Rangers are not using Healing Spring as much as before for this very reason

why not make the heal 50/50 on trigger and activate? it would make it more balanced

Great changes all around. Great to see Karl continuing to implement feedback from the community (ala the pull flip skill and a trap with a stun break, in particular).

The lack of a 25% MS trait is still pretty appalling, though, as Guardian being the only class without this basic QOL option is fairly appalling. Please integrate this as the first minor trait for the Dragonhunter line or try to fit it into one of the base lines.

would it be possible to make defenders dogma also affect destroying projectiles? so deflecting shot or zealots defense would have some added functionality when you bring zealots aggression by crippling the foes hit by them;

the cripple effect on zealots aggression is pretty short anyway so i wouldnt think it would be OP or anything

These are great changes! I’m definitely a fan of that change to pure of sight. But nothing on heavy light or traps ground targeting?

Good move with applying boons to traps. Gives continuity with Symbols and gives needed distance from being too similar to Ranger traps. I can now see the DH being related to a core specialization of the Guardian (Zeal).

I honestly don’t mind the DH lacking access to a +25% Movement Speed trait, because everything should have an Achilles’ heel. But I do think that it should have a trait that gives it short bursts of swiftness when applying cripple. So the DH gets time to quickly move into long range distance but only when an enemy sets off a crippling trap or with something like their LB’s auto attack. Could even be applied with other movement hampering conditions. That way the DH has some needed movement but only granted strategically.

I was running a trap heavy celestial spvp build with 3 traps in beta. For that build these changes are amazing. I will jsut go over changes on things i used alot and give my opion on em.

Procession of Blades: I already felt the damage was bad, yet i still used it. Since worked well combo’ed with dragon maw. All i wanted was a damage increase, though i had hoped it was through condition for condi/burn dragon hunter. But you also decided to throw me a nice fury buff on top of a damage boost, that just a huge bonus. So i am pretty happy with this change.

Test of Faith: This was also part my build. Some people might seen this as useless, but for me it was a insane area control for spvp. So i am getting triggered damage and i am still keeping the “moves through” damage. This trap now actually helps in my “point trap bomb” when defending in spvp and afterwards gives me a nice affect that helps control points. Yet on top of that i also get a nice protection buff. I was happy with this already, yet you made it even better.

dragon maw: you can never complain about 10 might. Also made “trap bomb” even stronger, since some traps damage will be doing more thanks to the might. Yeah i am happy, and looking forward to more free kills on skyhammer with this. (I had people rage when fighhting over skyhammer itself and i had this trap over one those disappearing window and 3 people fell to they death :P)

So i gained more damage, protection, fury and 10 might when i do my traps bomb in spvp. Yeah i am pretty happy overall with traps power now. (Even though nothing was added for condi/burn, which sad since dragonhunter was announced in start to add some kinda condi damage)

For rest:
Pure of Sight: So at close range i will only do 3% less damage compared to BWE3, while if they at range i am actually gaining 3% damage compared to BWE, The difference is 6% for clsoe range to long range. Yes it has gotten far better and now works for both melee and ranged. It is ok now

Hunter’s Verdict: I did not see this coming this way. I know a lot people been asking for a pull, so happy to see you listen to community. Hard to comment this without trying, but i will say i am happy you decided to give it a different cooldown. Though for me i still don´t see justice worth using, since losing passive is not a option for me! (that burn and cripple does alot of work!)

traps i skipped:
Purification: is still a big gamble overall. My opinion was, it is to much of health placed on “trigger” part. I still feel more should be moved to “when placed” part. Yet you decided to do opposite and put even more healing on triggering part. Nah still won´t ever wanna use it
Light’s Judgment: I still don´t care for vul from this, damage is meh and all you did was add swiftness and reduce cooldown. Yes trap is better, but but main thing it does still doens´t really do anything people want. i could see reveal part seeing use now and then in raids (If encounters ask for it)
Light’s Judgment: Some people might be sad about lowered damage. But actually i like the idea of a high defensive focused trap. aegis, stun break and stability(and cripple?) with some bonus damage, seem perfecly fine overall.

Closing comment. I was already ok with dragonhunter. But these changed only made me more happy to go dragonhunter for HoT, but i hope you not done.
I still feel dragonhunter deserve 25% run speed, it fits the theme and something we need. ( a slow hunter that has to dodge big game like dragons, makes no sense!)
Change defenders dogma, still more or less only has usefulness when we use shield of courage, since we can attack while blocking a lot. Change it to something like “when you block trigger justice passive on enemy”, does seem thing, but never feel like we wasted it, when procc when justice passive already was ready.
And last add some condi/burn please!! Make cripple do damage, burn/bleed on crit, let justice passive work when we used the cooldown or whatever(Adding more then 1 option is also ok :P).

For now thank you karl and other devs working on dragonhunter, keep up the good work!

These changes do nothing to make Dragon Hunter a viable PvE option.

Is the Dragon Hunter designed to be purely a PvP spec?

If so tell us so we can stop providing feedback, accept it, and then move on. Don’t drag us along with the false idea that the Dragon Hunter should be PvE viable.

Traps are still terrible, mechanically they are flawed, slapping random boons on them will not make them viable.

Adding a pull on F1 is a lazy fix to make Traps more attractive, players were already using Wings of Resolve to get into melee.

The only slightly positive change is ‘Pure of Sight’, largely because even with the Longbow we are always heavily in melee, particularly if Traps insist on staying melee. However it is still a boring trait, ‘Defenders Dogma’ needs changing too.

Overall Dragon Hunter is still a terrible elite spec (for PvE) and until Karl or other devs clarify that the Dragon Hunter is not meant to be for PvE i will continue to fight for it’s viability.

Those are great changes, my Greatsword/Hammer + Traps build is happy.

Pure of Sight now gives an overall damage boost of 7%, which is equivalent to Fiery Wrath without the Burning requirement, and even stacks on top of Fiery Wrath.
This is great, and it goes further to add 5% extra damage to faraway enemies. Even if you ignore this portion and go full melee(which I am going to), it is still a worthy trait.
Not to mention Trap damage is now always boosted.

Greatsword/Hammer + Traps build:
Shelter, Fragments of Faith, Procession of Blades, X, Dragon’s Maw
(X can be another Trap, Contemplation of Purity, Stand Your Ground, Retreat)
Zeal: Fiery Wrath, Binding Jeopardy/Zealous Blade, Shattered Aegis/Symbolic Avenger.
Virtues: Unscathed Contender, Absolute Resolution, Indomitable Courage.
DH: Soaring Devastation, Zealot’s Aggression, (Pure of Sight), Hunter’s Fortification.
(Traits can vary. Dulled Senses, Piercing Light, Hunter’s Determination are also good options)

Greatsword5 or Spear of Justice to pull foes into the Trap.
Hammer3 or Soaring Devastation to Immobilize foes if needed.
Zealot’s Aggression to keep foes from walking far away.
Hammer5 to keep foes inside the Traps area.
Symbolic Power feeds Fiery Wrath. Fragments of Faith feeds Unscathed Contender. Zealot’s Aggression feeds itself. On top of this, you now have boons from Traps, Dragon’s Maw provides 10 stacks of Might, Procession of Blades provides Fury.

Damage: checked (listed above)
Control: checked (listed above)
Stunbreaker: checked (Fragments of Faith)
Stability: checked (Indomitable Courage, Fragments of Faith)
Condition removal: checked (Absolute Resolution, Hunter’s Fortification)
Sustain: checked (Shelter, Wings of Resolve)

Dragonhunter can make a decent PvE Speed Clear, specially with the new boons from the Traps. (could even take Longbow, but would be less effective than Hammer in PvE)
Not to mention the effectiveness of Traps in WvW, this was already the case prior to Traps being buffed, or Traps now giving out boons like candy. (Longbow instead of Hammer for WvW)
Dragonhunter Traps will still be a gimmick in PvP.

First thanks Karl for taking the time out in what must be such a busy time for you all. Okay I have yet to read all responses but here’s my initial reaction:

PULL on SoJ My GOD THANK YOU THANK YOU. The synergy this has for trap builds & control builds is fantastic. I only wonder is it so strong that in needs a CD twice the duration of base SoJ. Binding Blade’s base CD is only 30 sec & 24 sec when traited. Could this maybe be reduce to match SoJ’s CD otherwise I see this becoming quite clunky gameplay wise. I would also prefer an overall reduction to number of targets tethered to 3 if needed for this CD.

Traps, I was already starting to enjoy the overall gameplay provide & was finding the viable. The addition of Boons PLUS Stun Break & I can no longer wait to play. My only last complaint has to do with Purification although the regeneration is nice I feel a 2 condition cleanse on placement would help this trap so much more. This would also tie in with the chosen name Purification which at the moment your like *wait it does purify (remove conditions).

Pure of Sight changes help but I still feel overall DH minors don’t have great synergy within the elite or when combined with core specialisations. As a GM minor I want more then just a passive damage modifier as I find these boring. I still feel both minors could use some changing.

First make Zealot’s Aggression a minor trait this is just too perfect. It plays well with most builds, DH & Core, ties in with the aggressive nature of DHs & as a minor shouts out HERE CRIPPLE your new condition to access.

Next adjust Pure of Sight of benefit active gameplay, my idea was the addition of quickness to help tie into the hunter theme with the concept of quickly finishing prey off. But please look at adding of adjusting so it’s just not a passive +Dmg & also has an active gameplay element.

Aggressive Nature – +10% dmg to foes beyond the range threshold (360) & gain Quickness (3 sec, 30 sec ICD) when crossing the range (360) threshold.

With the removal of DS & relocation of ZA to a minor trait this opens up a major. As many have ask for some more mobility & that the DH is themed after a hunter & is quoted as they take the fight to their foes & are more selfish I thought this could be an opportunity to add this mobility.

Hunter’s Swiftness – Gaining swiftness (5 sec) when you control an enemy.

This should provide greater mobility while in combat (Taking the fight to foes) but still limit guardians overall out of combat mobility & escape which is part of their profession theme.

Hi there,

I realize this is a little late but there were two things that stood out during BW3 that I don’t see addressed here:

Wings of Resolve should be a leap finisher, baseline. Traited with Soaring Detestation, however, it feels like it should be a blast, maybe.

It would feel more worthwhile if Heavy Light (and similar trait based cc’s with an internal timer) would not attempt to activate on bosses unless their break bar is open so as to not waste the internal cooldown. Having it waste against regular blocks / evades / etc is fine, of course.

Overall DH felt very nice and tangible though. Good job!

Again overall really cool changes but few things to note:

The healing trap (Purification) should break stun on activation imo. That way you could use it when somebody jumps on top of you (more often than not CCing you) to get guaranteed trigger and a big heal.

I slightly worried about the clunkyness/bugs that are bound to come from interaction between Hunter’s Verdict and Renewed Justice. I fully expect Renewed Justice to also reset Hunter’s Verdict and it to be patched. What I am more worried is a following scenario: Tether two enemies with Justice. Kill one and refresh your Justice. How does the UI react? Can throw a second justice to stack even more burns (as it was possible all these BWEs)? Or do I have to use Hunter’s Verdict to use my second Justice? Or does the UI flip into Justice and doesn’t allow usage of Hunter’s Verdict until I land the second justice? What if I want to pull and reapply the tether (for the Big Game Hunter trait)? I am worried how will this particular interaction work and that it will take some of the tactical choices you can make due how the UI will turn out.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hi all,
Here’s a list of new stuff we’ve got going as we draw closer to launch…

Dragonhunter is looking pretty exciting! I enjoy the theme of the elite spec, taking the point control idea a bit further by rewarding players who can successfully lure their prey into their traps.

Hopefully, the traps will be worth taking over other utilities now. If not, and if making them even more powerful is unappealing, reducing the risk of using them by increasing their effective range would really help.

Furthermore, in order to help integrate DH, I’d suggest some weapon swap CD reduction. This could just be tacked on to a trait, but to keep it interesting… put some more “action” in Virtuous Action by making using the virtue actives reduce the CD of weapon swap by, say, 5 seconds.

To further facilitate the process of switching from ranged and melee play, a new mobility solution to help players dart in and around the thick of a fight would help greatly. An interesting way to do this would be to have True Shot moderately reduce the CD of Wings of Resolve when landed. This would help keep the skill interesting, too – it’s very simple right now, and this would synergize pretty well with the proposed weapon swap CD reduction on Virtuous Action.

I also support giving Wings of Resolve some minor evasion, just for the duration of the animation. The animation gives you the impression you should be evading things.

Given these proposed changes, a passive +25% movement speed would be excessive. Passives are boring, and elite specs, specifically, seem to be intended towards more skillful yet more rewarding gameplay anyway.

For folks asking for +25% speed:

That is a GUARDIAN problem and it needs to be addressed in GUARDIAN trait lines. If it’s not we’re just gonna see a “speed trait tax” on every Guardian Espec from now ’til the servers go dark.

Fix it where it’ll do the most good.