Guild Wars 2

DiogoSilva.7089:

Black Box.9312:

DiogoSilva.7089:

Anything can happen at this point. It seems like people are criticizing the entire elite spec simply because they can’t handle its creative guardian/ ranger combo.

That’s what bothers me: It’s NOT creative. It’s not new. It’s plastering something we already have from another class onto this one. I mean I get that maybe it’d be hard to match something as unique as the chronomancer, but this just makes me feel like they didn’t even attempt to do so.

I don’t understand this.

Chronomancer is using Necromancer’s wells. Are they anything alike? No.

Dragonhunter has a shield arrow that absorbs arrows, winged leaps, revenant’s absorb wall, condition damage, support effects and no pets. This is completely unlike the longbow ranger. Yes, the teaser showed a barrage-like skill, and we know they’ll get traps, but it is unknown at this point of their actual effects.

Dragonhunter is quite a creative spec so far, imo, except its mediocre name. I mean, we’re talking about a leaping angel that shoots shield arrows. That’s not a ranger. That’s at chronomancer-level of awesome.

I think the teaser and the spec’s name are giving it a worse impression than what it deservers.

Yep. If the video had a slight bit more action and less waiting between skills and it was named like Sentinel or Vanguard of whatever, it would have been much better received. Technically speaking, it’s what most guardians have asked for. And frankly, I love it. The name though is god-awful…

Uhh yeah…I’ll probably never pick up a long bow on my Guardian…We belong in the thick of the fight if you ask me. We should still be in the thick of the fight, up close and personal in harms way…least it is what I was hoping for.

Just seems like a buffing ranger with traps. O_o

Not to mention the specialization name sounds lame as hell.

Won’t see me running around with that profession.

I’ll stick with the shield next to my character’s name.

ronpierce.2760:

Yep. If the video had a slight bit more action and less waiting between skills and it was named like Sentinel or Vanguard of whatever, it would have been much better received. Technically speaking, it’s what most guardians have asked for. And frankly, I love it. The name though is god-awful…

I agree that if the spec was named differently, people would have been reacting differently as well.

A generic name like “dragonhunter” coupled with ranger-esque theme seems completely unrelated with each other, and gives an unfocused feel to it.

Names are just names. Its insane how much people are caring about it. I’m seeing people saying they’re quitting their guard because of the name. I mean, really?

I can barely even remember the current name of our trait lines. For the most part I just remember, “Ok, my WvW build is 0/0/6/4/4” or something like that and look up the actual trait line names if I need to know them. They could change the names to anything and it wouldn’t make any difference.

Totbot.4583:

Names are just names. Its insane how much people are caring about it. I’m seeing people saying they’re quitting their guard because of the name. I mean, really?

I can barely even remember the current name of our trait lines. For the most part I just remember, “Ok, my WvW build is 0/0/6/4/4” or something like that and look up the actual trait line names if I need to know them. They could change the names to anything and it wouldn’t make any difference.

Eh, it matters. People identify with a class and it’s purpose more than the specific specializations. If Warrior was renamed “Doofy Butt-Clown” it would likely cause some controversy and… Well it would either be less popular or more, not really sure… But regardless, class recognition does matter much in the same way people care if they are shooting arrows or fireballs or shadows.

Meh, there’s a pretty big difference between “Dragonhunter” and “Doofy Butt-Clown”.

And if there was a class called Doofy Butt-Clown and it was a fun class that was powerful, I doubt too many people would actually care in the long run.

Totbot.4583:

Meh, there’s a pretty big difference between “Dragonhunter” and “Doofy Butt-Clown”.

And if there was a class called Doofy Butt-Clown and it was a fun class that was powerful, I doubt too many people would actually care in the long run.

Sure, but it wouldn’t be ideal. That’s sort of the idea here. It’s somewhat early and little connection. If they were to change it ever, it’d be now. Some things have lasting impressions for old and new players too. Super cliche can be a real turn off and does sort of suggest lack of creativity. (For the record, I tend to be against the notion that EVERY MMO needs a “warrior” class.)

Totbot.4583:

Meh, there’s a pretty big difference between “Dragonhunter” and “Doofy Butt-Clown”.

And if there was a class called Doofy Butt-Clown and it was a fun class that was powerful, I doubt too many people would actually care in the long run.

Symbolism is important.

“Not being ideal” is very different than whats going on right now. There is a big difference between “Not a fan” and “I’m going to quit about it”.

I love this change, although reserving full judgement until i see all the new skills and traits.

Paragon was my fav gw1 class and anything they can do to make it more Paragon’ish is fine with me.

TyPin.9860:

Zackie.8923:

specialization should not be mixing classes together…

From what I gather that is the whole point of specializations. In GW1 you could always combine 2 professions. In GW2 this role seems to be done by elite specializations. In this case it was obviously a combination of Guardian and Ranger as Chronomancer seems to be a combination of Mesmer and Necromancer.

Wow you just said chronomancer was a combination of necromancer just ‘cus it ended with “mancer”, didn’t you?

./cry

I still think they just threw a bunch of terms on the wall to make sense of the crap they decided to call a specialization. Polishing a terd, so to speak.

THUNK! BACKLINE SUPPORT

THUNK! DRAGON OHHHHHHHHHH

THUNK! HUNTER! WE GOT OURSELVES A WINNER!

I liked the reveal. I had been hoping this would be a defensive counter to the pirate ship/Ranger meta that’s been floating around, and that’s exactly what it appears to be. And more mobility! I can definitely see myself sticking with this specialization all the time.

Unspecified.9142:

Before today Guardians were screaming how much they wanted longbow. They get a longbow that works like a longbow. Now everyone is complaining.

What exactly did people think Guardian Longbow was going to be?

1. Not all of us were screaming for Longbow. I wanted mace personally, or off hand sword.
2. The problem is the utilities. They are all traps, something that isn’t super useful on other classes. For example, since the healing skill is a trap, you’re reliant on your enemy to trigger it for you to get healed. It will be absolutely useless in a ranged fight, something that a longbow Guardian will be doing.

If they gave it a skill that teleports you at the enemy position and does an area knockdown if it crits, and then lets you smash their head in with the bow before continuing with your melee weapon of choice, I think DH would fulfill the guards’ expectations

Not like this… not like this….

fluxit.8247:

Once people begin to realise they don’t actually have to take traps and they don’t actually have to use a longbow their attitudes might change. The virtue changes alone seem interesting.

than all we get from the new ES is new virtue active effects,,, thats it… a waste of trait line for just that…..

ronpierce.2760:

If Warrior [it] was renamed “Doofy Butt-Clown” it would likely cause some controversy

IMO Dragonhunter is about on par with “Doofy Butt Clown”; they both sound juvenile and try-hard and just too… silly for an otherwise serious MMO.

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”

^this exactly.
Guardian is weapon in condition builds, burning damage was gimick, now you have filler conditions to cover your burn and do extra damage, so condition build might finaly be viable, and Guardian always lacked reliable long range option, which a lot of guardians have been complaining since forever, i don’t see why is this happening now.

but i do agree the name is kind of funny.

I FOUND GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE OF DRAGON HUNTER GUISE

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”

You’re putting words in a lot of other players mouths. I never wanted another range weapon, and I’m not a fan of condition builds, nor traps. Frankly, if the new trait line is mostly about Longbows/Traps (which it probably will be) I will just stick with my current build.

I would have been happier with them making us more like a light magic ele or something than this.

Morsus.5106:

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”

You’re putting words in a lot of other players mouths. I never wanted another range weapon, and I’m not a fan of condition builds, nor traps. Frankly, if the new trait line is mostly about Longbows/Traps (which it probably will be) I will just stick with my current build.

Again, Specialization is there to fill the blank in play styles.
If you don’t like it, stick with the old ones, it’s never meant to be OP and completely dominate anything existing. It’s just there to fill the blank so every one can be happy.

Not to mention all the other traitline are also getting completely revamped, so it’s not “old”

The specialization sounds and looks as uninteresting as was expected to be; no need to move from my med guard niche, neither from PvP or WvW.

The only susprise is the cheesy name. So overall I’m happy with the ANet work: the new guardian skills won’t outshine the current builds, so I will not be force to use my guardians in cluncky ways.

I am very happy with this actually, I wanted some long range option for the longest time! I might actually make a guardian who uses the virtues trait line now, or I may just play a switch hitter between support and up close damage.

Not certain what the complaints are about but so far I am excited.

fluxit.8247:

Once people begin to realise they don’t actually have to take traps and they don’t actually have to use a longbow their attitudes might change. The virtue changes alone seem interesting.

Not necessarily.

I could be wrong, it might be an instant projectile coming out of our chest, but Spear of Justice sounds like an animated skill to me, which means no instant blind during stomps, resses, channels (probably quite useful for Stronghold) or any other thing you could be doing. And that’s assuming the blind is not moved to the spear itself, which would be quite a nerf.
The new mechanic doesn’t sound specially interesting for PvE either. Unless it’s extremely powerful, shared burn application will outclass it in any bossfight.
Going back to Justice is Blind, we will also have a harder time finishing solo fights while consistently blinding packs of enemies, mostly because we would be spending the time to finsih them off throwing DoTs at next to dead enemies.
Not much to say either about the weird combination of a proximity tether and a featured long range weapon.

Depending on the implementation, we could have similar issues with other virtue activation traits too.

Honestly, the specialization looks totally unimaginative (even in the name!!) and the Virtue rework feels incredibly random, like figuring out a new functionality for no other reason but the shake of changing … but well, it’s not like Virtues were the most creative mechanic to begin with.

Zealot would fit, other then that sounds sweet

Pyriel.4370:

They seem to have given us the stuff that should be given to rangers to fix them.

Don’t worry, rangers will “steal” mediation, concentration, as well as staff from Guardian as “Druid” anyway. Then we rangers can finally be useful to the party.

Well I’m still debating buying HoT. This pretty much makes me want to main a Revenant. I’m not going to pay for an expansion just to get a new class. Another game maybe. I might go back to WoW after this. SAD…

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”
[…]
but i do agree the name is kind of funny.

It’s also cause the DH doesn’t seem to fit the guardian. Like, at all.

Guard getting ranged weapon == good.
Guard becoming pet-less ranger == silly.
DragonHunter name == silly.

scerevisiae.1972:

lighter.2708:

Guardians before announcement:
“Where is my condi, where is my long range weapon”
Guardians after the announcement:
“Wah, condi, wah ranged weapon”
[…]
but i do agree the name is kind of funny.

It’s also cause the DH doesn’t seem to fit the guardian. Like, at all.

Guard getting ranged weapon == good.
Guard becoming pet-less ranger == silly.
DragonHunter name == silly.

Guardian Profession relationship with mysticism and divination make better sense: Revenant/Ritualist/Monk

But

A Guardian Hunting Dragons?

A Guardian Profession- Ranger Prototype?

This is the worse design idea i ever see in game history.

A very big joke I have to laugh: lol

ANet will see the light and will change this crappy name. Actually if I was them I would increase the HoT hype to a new level by making a players poll for the names of the new specializations.

I hope ANET better listen.

Dragon Hunter is a combination of the aesthetics of Final Fantasy style Dragoons/Dragon Knights, and Monster Hunter Hunters. Dragoons specifically hunt Dragons, and they live by a code to do it. Monster Hunter Hunters use traps and various weapons (Like Hammers, Greatswords, Sword/Shield, Longbows) to hunt and kill/capture large creatures, many of which could be called (or all called) Dragons. Dragon Hunter fits perfectly in the gw2 lore of a class creating a Code to hunt down and destroy Dragons. The utilization of traps and bows makes this easier, but nowhere are you required to use any or either of those tools.

And I also want to mention, having a more true Dragoon style spec would’ve been amazing, but that would require terrestrial spears (which are more of the Paragon’s domain in gw lore) and probably require Jump skills, which would probably be a nightmare to implement and balance in gw2 combat/engine.

That’s fine and dandy, but why did guardians have to be the ones stuck with this elite specialization and this particular name?

Ghotistyx.6942:

Dragon Hunter is a combination of the aesthetics of Final Fantasy style Dragoons/Dragon Knights, and Monster Hunter Hunters. Dragoons specifically hunt Dragons, and they live by a code to do it. Monster Hunter Hunters use traps and various weapons (Like Hammers, Greatswords, Sword/Shield, Longbows) to hunt and kill/capture large creatures, many of which could be called (or all called) Dragons. Dragon Hunter fits perfectly in the gw2 lore of a class creating a Code to hunt down and destroy Dragons. The utilization of traps and bows makes this easier, but nowhere are you required to use any or either of those tools.

And I also want to mention, having a more true Dragoon style spec would’ve been amazing, but that would require terrestrial spears (which are more of the Paragon’s domain in gw lore) and probably require Jump skills, which would probably be a nightmare to implement and balance in gw2 combat/engine.

This is not about Dragon Hunter not fitting in Guild Wars 2 or about the name: this is about the profession specialization it is given to.

Like i already said: Guardian Profession is centered around mysticism and divination.

I also play Square Enix: Final Fantasy: Arena net: Guardian specialization would also make sense with Paladin class.

What i find interesting: Square Enix already have the specialization for some of the profession for Guild Wars 2: so the question is? why Arena net did not design a prototype of these classes from Square Enix Final Fantasy 7/14 for those profession specialization in Guild Wars 2?

See Examples here:

1. Archer:Bard/BeastMaster
2. Warrior:Lancer/Dragoon/Gladiator/Paladin
3. Rogue:Ninja
4. Elementalist:Summoner/Mage

Even Guild Wars already have the specialization for some of these profession for Guild Wars 2

See Examples here:

1. Assassin
2. Ritualist
3. Paragon
4. Dervish
5. Monk

Even this game: Yes! Guild Wars 2 already have the specialization for the Guardian Profession:

See Example here:

1. Revenant

But it will not be because Arena net make it to be a separate profession instead. Again: it would make sense to give Guardian Profession that but No! Do not improve Guardian Profession but give them something that do not make sense at all!

Do you see? would it make sense to add great ideas and improve them?

" Innovation is the calling card of the future "

What other class is themed to follow courage, justice, and resolve? Three virtues required to track and hunt down the largest game. Guardians have also been linked to taking inspiration to DnD Clerics. so here’s some other sources of inspiration they might’ve used.

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dragoon_
http://realmshelps.net/cgi-bin/prestige2.pl?class=Dragonslayer (man this was hard to get a decent link to)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY5qKxZfdwc

Ghotistyx.6942:

What other class is themed to follow courage, justice, and resolve? Three virtues required to track and hunt down the largest game.

I just don’t understand how the guardian is the one charged with hunting down the largest game.

I just want to step in guys and say: There’s a big difference between theme and mechanics. The theme of this class is a bit strange. Dragonhunter sounds a kittenildish and the whole theme sounds kinda weird. Longbow + traps sounds like a ranger. That doesn’t mean it can’t be a bad spec! That doesn’t mean it can’t be very guardian like! Mesmer has wells which are traditionally a necromancer utility, but they were designed in a very mesmer-ish way. The same can be done for longbow and traps.

Give it till tomorrow when we actually see some concrete skills.

Genesis.8572:

I just don’t understand how the guardian is the one charged with hunting down the largest game.

Because we’re the hero Tyria deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll hunt dragons. Because we can take it. Because other professions are not our hero. We’re a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dragon Hunter.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Because we’re the hero Tyria deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we’ll hunt dragons. Because we can take it. Because other professions are not our hero. We’re a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dragon Hunter.

Nicely done . A pleasant break from people losing their minds.

New Weapon: The bow – one of the greatest, most iconic hunting tools in the history of the human race

New Skill category: Traps – one of the most essential hunting tools in the history of the human race.

The Enemy: Elder Dragons – the ultimate peril of the world of Tyria. If we do not strive against them with our every breath, all will die.

New Profession: The Dragon Hunter – “I take the tools of the hunter and turn them against the foes that must be fought. For the good of all.”

The name wasn’t picked out of a hat… Its a graceful bit of shorthand both summing up and evoking many elements the profession encompasses.

+ More mobility
+ Ranged damage
+ Soft CC
+ More dmg conditions other than burning
+ Stealth with Trapper runes

It’s all in the mechanics, it’s all in the numbers. Gameplay, play-style, ease of play… you name it. That’s what matters in the end.

This is all your average guardian ever asked for and more.

Now we have yet to see how the respective traits and traps compete with the already extremely competitive shouts and meditations. Traps may very well be ranged and throwable and may also have amazing effects once triggered.

If traps are not your thing, it also seems to have great sinergy with meditations, Wings of Resolve x2 with Renewed Focus for a double leap sounds amazing already (no need to use traits for that though!).

All this fuss about the name and the traps only shows the power of baseless perception.

I could care less about the name.

Poor choice about the Specialization name : unrelated to Guardian.
The name seems more related to a Ranger spec, as it fits the Monster Hunter theme much, much better.

Also the choice about traps spec is not especially exciting for us Guardian players, I think.

A spec using a Spear as a non-aquatic weapon would have been a bold move,
and not unfeasible due to weapon already existing and some animations too…

Is there still hope for some changes ?

Antares.2586:

Poor choice about the Specialization name : unrelated to Guardian.

Its supposed to be different.

Also the choice about traps spec is not especially exciting for us Guardian players, I think.

I have 5 guardians and I’m eager to turn at least 2 into full time trapsters. Speak for yourself. You’ll be less completely wrong that way.

A spec using a Spear as a non-aquatic weapon would have been a bold move,
and not unfeasible due to weapon already existing and some animations too…

That’s something I’m looking forward to also. And why I’m very glade they didn’t ‘use up’ the name/concept of Paragon yet. I’m actually quite happy they’re holding that until they have a little more experience making Elite Specializations.

Is there still hope for some changes ?

Same as there’s hope Anet doesn’t cave.

Nike.2631:

The name wasn’t picked out of a hat… Its a graceful bit of shorthand both summing up and evoking many elements the profession encompasses.

By the logic present, they could have easily just renamed Ranger or Thief to be a “Dragon Hunter” if that’s all that’s required. A bow, some traps and a cause. (Heck, they are probably better at it too.)

At least it would make more sense for them thematically as well. Especially when the only ability dragon related in any fashion is ONE skill. Hardly profession extension worthy. Nothing else shows that this profession elite is any better or even specialized at hunting what its titled, nor even related. It’s like calling an Elementalist a “Dragon Hunter” because his Fire Dagger 2 is “Drake’s Breath”. There’s nothing Dragon-y otherwise, nor does it improve on killing that specific foe better than a warrior’s greatsword 2.

The title (because that’s all it really is), was slapped on. It’s meaningless.

Talonblaze.3175:

Nike.2631:

The name wasn’t picked out of a hat… Its a graceful bit of shorthand both summing up and evoking many elements the profession encompasses.

By the logic present, they could have easily just renamed Ranger or Thief to be a “Dragon Hunter” if that’s all that’s required. A bow, some traps and a cause. (Heck, they are probably better at it too.)

Not really. Because those professions were established prior to the (current) rise of the Elder Dragons.

The Dragon Hunter, in-setting, is something NEW. A direct response to the threat of our age. While players will forge their own path with these tools, the people who developed these techniques did so for one purpose: to resist the Elder Dragons.

Nike.2631:

Not really. Because those professions were established prior to the (current) rise of the Elder Dragons.

The Dragon Hunter, in-setting, is something NEW. A direct response to the threat of our age. While players will forge their own path with these tools, the people who developed these techniques did so for one purpose: to resist the Elder Dragons.

And yet, those professions are just as, if not better at doing the job than the supposed “Specialization”. Generally when you specialize as something, its supposed to you know, make you better than the average joe at doing it.
This is anything but.
As said, they don’t have any specific “anti-dragon” abilities.
Regardless of what they started off as, players NOW have forged their paths to fight the elder dragons. Thieves, Elementalists, Warriors, Mesmers, Revenant, Rangers and Guardians, all aiming to defeat the elder dragons.
That’s why your character is the hero, this is their mission. This is what they do. Regardless of whether or not they have a title slapped onto them or not.
The tools they developed (including these so called “Dragon Hunters”), not only work to defeating these elder dragons, but are also to aid in any other threat.
The “Dragon Hunter” does not outshine any in what they do. Supposedly, hunting dragons. Neither thematically or mechanically.

The pact, was created to resist the elder dragons. EVERY SINGLE ONE was trained to combat the dragons. They are the dragon hunters, thematically.

What does this specialization bring that makes it stand out any more than a Chronomancer being a “dragonhunter” or a Druid being a “dragonhunter”. Nothing. That’s the problem. Each of those professions could have had this name, it would make about as much sense thematically and mechanically as what’s been presented with Guardian at this time.

Chronomancer – “Time Bender”
Dragonhunter – “Fights Dragons”
its sounds like a title and to go from a guardian to a dragonhunter is just wierd while we stil stay in the support role

I’m just confused as to how a trap heal is supposed to work. Aren’t heals supposed to be used in urgency? If traps are getting the changes they mentioned (instead of being able to activate instantly, there is a warm up period) then it will be impossible to actually plan when you will get the health you need. What if I get hit with a burst suddenly? I’m now at really low health and need a top-up and I have to lay a trap, wait for it’s warm up period to pass and then wait for something to walk over it to get my health.

My character is definitely dead at this point. It’s funeral insurance for my bloody heal skill.

What if I plan ahead? It could go off just half a second before I need it and now I’ve wasted my heal and I’m dead again.

I’ve spent my whole time in this game playing a class that is mobile and fun to engage enemies with. I wanted the longbow, I really did. I wanted to be able to fall back and pull out a good ranged weapon. If I have to invest traits for an elite specialization whose utilities are going to require either too precise actions (I’m in Australia, our connection can’t support such timely play) or will be too inconvenient to use in open battle to warrant spending my traits there.

For me to think that traps were a good idea for Guardians the payoff would have to be big. Massive amounts of damage that laying them and possible missing your chance to damage the enemy is the gamble. Bow damage would have to be not only adequate but viable. The healing trap would have to have the ability to bring me out of downed state if triggered whilst I’m down.

If not huge amounts of damage, utility that will actually prove game changing. Like a 3 second immobilization and skill disable.

All I wanted was a viable longbow and maybe some more chants or shouts. Maybe the ability to switch stances and virtues like the elementalists do with attunements? If the dragonhunter ends up being less efficient than the guardian, how could you convince someone to actually play it?

Of course this is all pending tomorrow’s stream where I’m sure these issues will get talked about. I’m sure Anet are aware of the criticisms so far and I think that they will at least have something to say about this whole matter. I’m hoping for something we haven’t been told yet. I’m looking forward to hearing about how traps can be made a viable skill choice for a guardian.

Talonblaze.3175:

-snip-

I don’t hear you complaining about Warrior’s name when “everyone is fighting a war against the dragons”. To use another game as an example, Diablo 3 has Demon Hunters despite everyone killing demons at some point in the game. There’s plenty of potential inspiration for how the Guardian elite spec became Dragon Hunter, and surely people haven’t been exposed to enough of it with the stances they’re taking. I’ll say it again, a lot of the concepts mechanically and thematically were likely taken from Dragoons, Monster Hunter, and DnD. Dragon Hunters were seemingly formed as a SWAT team against the dragons. A more specialized and highly trained force to deal with the larger problems of everyday Tyrian life. We haven’t really seen anything from the other professions suggesting that they’ve decided to specialize against the Elder Dragons, Mesmers are fiddling with Time and another is going to be doing a whole lot of yelling. Who knows how effective that’ll be… I mean, it worked for the Dovahkiin, but he’s probably more of the exception than the rule.

And who’s to say the Dragon Hunters aren’t the best at what they do? Are you referencing the mechanics of not just the Guardian spec that hasn’t been released, but every other profession and spec which we still know so little of? They haven’t even released the traits for the Chronomancer, let alone the other specs or even the final numbers for all the proposed trait changes of the base classes. What kind of time traveling sorcery did you use to gain that information?

There seems to be an awful lot of name hate coming from a guy named Talonblaze