Guild Wars 2

Does anyone have a real build that doesn’t revolve around Empowering Might and Altruistic Healing?

Most dps guardian builds for dungeon speedclears have absolutely 0 points in valor. EM is nice but when organized groups can get 20+ stacks of might from blast finishers (20s might stacks), the 5s might stacks from EM may end up overwriting your long duration ones and do more harm than good.

I don’t take EM for the might, I take it for the AH procs.

0/0/10/30/30 spvp build doesn’t revolve around it.

^is that staff or mace? hammer?

Do you use apothecary for that?

Ezeriel.9574:

Does anyone have a real build that doesn’t revolve around Empowering Might and Altruistic Healing?

Pretty much all of the burst, damage wvw pvp builds avoid AH. I think the only builds that go into AH/EM are the support/heal oriented builds. Otherwise why are you taking AH?

Ezeriel.9574:

^is that staff or mace? hammer?

Do you use apothecary for that?

For spvp, clerics with soldier runes. Hammer (or staff) with scepter/focus (or shield), sigils of energy. Although, no doubt other sets are just as good with that build.

Really depends what you are trying to do. AH is a great build, but it is certainly not the only one. It depends what you are wanting to do and what feels comfortable/suits your playstyle.

man if you want something of funny… i’m working on a sword/focus build 0/30/20/20 (for now… i’m testing more builds) which can carry out a very high burst damage (very similar to a warrion)… basically it’s based on the possibility to reach 100% crit chance and literally destroy an enemy with a 10k+ zealot’s defense
but i need more time to complete it… maybe i can open a topic on the forum… but it’s full of arrogant people… so i prefer to complete it in private and maybe later post it on the forum

“Otherwise why are you taking AH?”

because I want to live for more than three seconds… even with AH it’s hard to live that long.

and 0-0-10-30-30 doesn’t work… all the damage skills are physical, you lose more physical damage than you pick up in condition damage …and once again AH+EM is more healing that you get with Absolute Resolution.

So you’re doing less damage, have less toughness, and do less self healing.. Fail.

i beg to differ. not all builds are about burst. and you simply cannot tell how a build will perform in various situations based on a stat spread of numbers.

youtube “healway guardian” for WvW or “bunker guardian” for PvP and watch them never go down. sure you may not do as much damage as a burst Guardian, but if you can outlast your opponent, and running is not an option, you’ll take ’em down.

I run with 10/30/0/25/5 (zero valor) build. The build I have theorycrafted before to the deepest level possible (including damage with different weapons, skills) and its working wonders

yeah…. I haven’t used AH in…. like 6 months now? It is ok for zerg vs zerg, but straight up damage mitigation is so much better now. condition reduction runes/food with good dodging and you can live for a rather long time.

Ezeriel.9574:

“Otherwise why are you taking AH?”

because I want to live for more than three seconds… even with AH it’s hard to live that long.

and 0-0-10-30-30 doesn’t work… all the damage skills are physical, you lose more physical damage than you pick up in condition damage …and once again AH+EM is more healing that you get with Absolute Resolution.

So you’re doing less damage, have less toughness, and do less self healing.. Fail.

You are not concerned about damage when bunkering down/team support.

It is unlikely that you are going to be getting more heals from AH when there is no one/limited people around to proc off, especially when the bunker build is running clerics.

You provide less team heal output and team support from AH.

You have less condi clear/breaks.

You have less buff uptime.

For a build that is “fail” a fair few tourny teams have/do use it..

http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

AH is great for running in a big old zerg though. Again, it depends on what you are trying to do.

And look at the power/zeal trait line.. every minor trait is about symbols…

Sword, Scepter, Torch, GS.. these are not symbol weapons… they just redid the trait lines, and it’s mountains of failure. 25 points to increase damage with symbols.. wtf?

I run 0/15/0/30/25 or 0/10/10/30/20 depending on what I’m doing, and I have since launch (though the second alteration is a more recent development). Given good gear stats, it’s durable, deals moderate-high damage (2.5-3k DPS on average, with bursts up to 5k), and doesn’t suffer from kiting issues (I have 9 AoE condi removals, a passive removal every 10 seconds, 2 stunbreaks, 33% groupwide uptime on Stability, and perma-Swiftness). It works beautifully, both for general PvE and WvW. It’s also an incredible asset to groups, capable of handing out boons like candy, and having them last an incredibly long time. It even provides a fair bit of group healing in a pinch.

AH is not the only viable setup at all. It’s great (which is why so many people use it), but I abandoned it long ago because I was frustrated at how ineffective I was in a small fight. It’s just not very versatile as it only thrives with allies nearby.

The Healway build on this forum is extremely versatile and is capable of taking down 3 attackers at once in the right hands. It can do well supporting in a Zerg as well. In fact, it can be effective in just about any setting.

Just watch the videos of Healway (as someone else suggest before me).

Ezeriel.9574:

“Otherwise why are you taking AH?”

because I want to live for more than three seconds… even with AH it’s hard to live that long.

and 0-0-10-30-30 doesn’t work… all the damage skills are physical, you lose more physical damage than you pick up in condition damage …and once again AH+EM is more healing that you get with Absolute Resolution.

So you’re doing less damage, have less toughness, and do less self healing.. Fail.

Are you being sarcastic. I’m sorry I really can’t tell. I’m not very good at guessing someones intention over text. If you are being sarcastic, then =P good. If you are being serious. Well I’m not going to go there. I choose to believe you are just being sarcastic, or making a joke.

As others have pointed out the 10/30/30 build is really nice. There are also meditation builds that are similar, but concentrate more into burst. AH is great in Zergs I suppose, but if you are doing other things you won’t get the benefit from AH. I concentrate on small fights, or duels in wvw. So I use a build that has the ability to burst down someone. Mitigation comes in the form of medium health(only way to cushion against conditions), medium armor(mostly useless), lots of blinds/blocks (more effective than armor for mitigation damage).

There are videos of the healway (excellent build/setup), stunningstyles has some videos (similar to what I run). To my knowledge none of those use AH and manage to accomplish things that you seem to believe aren’t possible. With correct dodging, and usage of skills you shouldn’t be dieing period unless it’s a 3+vs 1. Even then I think the healway can still manage to win. I’m not certain because I just can’t get into that play style. Nothing against it, again it’s a great build.

Ah, while good, is not mandatory, unless you like, lack the proficiency to keep pressing 1 or not spending trait points, or wearing blue gear. But if that were true, chances are you would probably be pretty useless with AH too, so at least do some damage. It’s strongly recommended to stop using AH for a bit, so you lose the weak mindset of “omg guardian must sustain and tank!”

Anyhow, radiant power is really good, espeically if combined with that fire trait, so 10 zeal and 25 radiance, and the rest is w/e. 10/30/0/30/0 is very solid and sturdy with Pure of Voice going. I currently do 20/30/0/20/0 with GS power— that new buff to the trait is nice for survival too and sometimes the best defense is just killing your enemy. Or you can try 10/30/10/20/0 and take Strength in Numbers. With the new buff, it’s about a 5% damage reduction not just to you, but your allies. More so if they are in zerker. You made everyone survive longer by merely existing. That’s something AH can’t do. Oh, and you actually output damage.

I haven’t even talked about the virtues tree for group support, but I guess people are just going “omg it doesn’t giev stats, crappy tree!”

Fenrir.3609:

Ezeriel.9574:

“Otherwise why are you taking AH?”

because I want to live for more than three seconds… even with AH it’s hard to live that long.

and 0-0-10-30-30 doesn’t work… all the damage skills are physical, you lose more physical damage than you pick up in condition damage …and once again AH+EM is more healing that you get with Absolute Resolution.

So you’re doing less damage, have less toughness, and do less self healing.. Fail.

You are not concerned about damage when bunkering down/team support.

It is unlikely that you are going to be getting more heals from AH when there is no one/limited people around to proc off, especially when the bunker build is running clerics.

You provide less team heal output and team support from AH.

You have less condi clear/breaks.

You have less buff uptime.

For a build that is “fail” a fair few tourny teams have/do use it..

http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

AH is great for running in a big old zerg though. Again, it depends on what you are trying to do.

0/0/10/30/30 has been a staple of tPvP Guardian builds since… beta. A variation is 0/0/20/30/30 taking shield CD and dropping Indomitable Courage.

Fenrir is right about AH + EM, and if you are not running in a zerg, you will not proc it enough for the healing to be significant. Moreover, any good small WvW roaming groups or Tourney players will bring plenty of condition pressure, which AH + EM fails to address. EM also encourages you to be in the thick of it longer than is safe, and unnecessary AoE cleave will waste your heals.

tPvP Bunker Guardian runs a double (sometimes triple) Shout + Soldier runes setup + Pure of Voice + Absolute Resolution (+ Renewed Focus) for unrivalled AoE Condition Wipe and Boon application. Although in the face of the condi meta, you are forced to blow a lot of your skills early to keep yourself up, your team is there to peel for you.

Damage, Healing and Toughness aren’t everything. You can avoid a lot of key burst skills with Shelter, Virtue of Courage, SYG! -> Renewed Focus and your weapon CCs. Why the Guardian can bunk efficiently with the lowest tier of Health is because of the mixture of Control, Damage Avoidance (Blinds, Blocks, Invulns) and decent Healing. Moreover, I’ve had a lot of experience with VoJ granting the last bit of pressure in a teamfight to perform clutch kills, as the burning may not be high in damage but stacks good duration.

If you’re in small scale fights, get some Cleric gear and a staff, and all you really need to do is cleanse yourself with a shout, spam Empower/Detonate Shield of Absorption, VoR + RF and the refreshed VoR along with all your boons will keep you alive. Wall of Reflection is a good 3rd utility to help with not dying.

I also feel you are missing out by not trying Triple/Double Meditation builds or Symbol builds that are also good builds that perform differently.

/me takes a sniff …

I knew it, smells like whine thread, looks like a whine thread

In WvW a couple friends and I took turns dueling a warrior from Ehmry Bay who was a very strong PvPer with an incredible build. I faced him as my guardian and both duels lasted more than 5min (5:10, 6:30) and I do not use AH.

So, you do NOT need AH to “last more than 3 seconds”. Quite a bit of the guardian’s survivability comes from how you play, when you dodge, when you burst your virtues, etc.

Know that you do not need to go full support/healing to be useful as a guardian, neither do you need to stack only defense/healing.

I thought we had moved past the “GUARDIANS MUST BE AH” thing months ago. Like, around when people stopped treating that “AH crithammer” nonsense like it was a real thing to be taken seriously.

AH isn’t even worth it in large fights. What is the point of living longer if all your team dies? 0/0/10/30/30 preforms much better in large fights than any AH build the additional boon duration, condi removal and aoe stability are amazing.

Eeeeveryone wants to live longer. Noooobody wants to take more than 10 seconds to kill somebody.

So, where does that leave us?

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Eeeeveryone wants to live longer. Noooobody wants to do take more than 10 seconds to kill somebody.

So where does that leave us?

Everyone wants the damage of Berserker, tankiness of Soldier, the healing sustain of Cleric, condition of Rabid, and classes with perfect trait lines.
As someone I met had asked in guild chat, I want a build that can “survive and kill”. Burst like a Thief, Condi like a Necro, and Sustain like an Elementalist. We all told him that can’t happen and you have to give up something. He instantly went on the defensive and said his build did exactly as he had hoped (why are you even asking then?). Guess what that build has… EM + AH…

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Ezeriel.9574:

Does anyone have a real build that doesn’t revolve around Empowering Might and Altruistic Healing?

Pretty much all of the burst, damage wvw pvp builds avoid AH. I think the only builds that go into AH/EM are the support/heal oriented builds. Otherwise why are you taking AH?

AH=support/heal oriented…you what mate? AH is the most selfish skill in our arsenal, it heals only the guardian.

Agreed. I actually play AH when I run a zerker build in WvW for funsies (very rarely) so that I have at least some sustainability, but it’s just a little too selfish for my tastes when it comes to supporting the group/zerg.

It’s certainly a solid choice for sustainability and it has synergy with blind/vuln/Might-spamming builds that utilize EM and 15 in Radiance, which is its own form of support, but it’s not my preferred build. I do enjoy having one or two such builds in my group comp though. Dat free Might and dem blinds.

You don’t need AH in a pve setting once you are experienced, it certainly frees you up to run more party supportive or dps oriented traits once you drop it.

Indeed, a lot of Guardians will scrap AH and just go full glass in PvE after they’re experienced enough. I know I do.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Agreed. I actually play AH when I run a zerker build in WvW for funsies (very rarely) so that I have at least some sustainability, but it’s just a little too selfish for my tastes when it comes to supporting the group/zerg.

It’s certainly a solid choice for sustainability and it has synergy with blind/vuln/Might-spamming builds that utilize EM and 15 in Radiance, which is its own form of support, but it’s not my preferred build. I do enjoy having one or two such builds in my group comp though. Dat free Might and dem blinds.

Personally I would not want a guardian with 15 in radiance AND AH in my group. While 15 in radiance is nice for the blinds/vuln if you bring AH along as well then you are not bringing pure of voice and a guardian without pure of voice is not a guardian I want around in a team fight.

You people make no sense. All I’m hearing is….

“AH+EM is only good in groups”
“The only thing AH+EM does is let you live longer” (that a bad thing?)
“What’s the point of living longer if you aren’t giving your group boons”
“random insults”

Is that all a guardian is? A walking boonbot?

Ezeriel.9574:

You people make no sense. All I’m hearing is….

“AH+EM is only good in groups”
“The only thing AH+EM does is let you live longer” (that a bad thing?)
“What’s the point of living longer if you aren’t giving your group boons”
“random insults”

Is that all a guardian is? A walking boonbot?

Really, is that really what you are getting from this?

What you should be hearing is -

AH + EM might heal you and you alone slightly better if you are running in a zerg. For smaller scale fights and spvp, bunkering down with 0/0/10/30/30 is more often than not, far more optimal in terms of both self survive and team survive.

You have less team support, less condi clear and less self survive running AH + EM.

Why exactly do you think 10/30/30 is so prevalent in spvp? Do you think tourny players have somehow missed the supposed amazing synergy that is AH + EM?

For dungeons and pve, higher damage builds are often more optimal as you can learn to dodge most attacks and raw dps and/or group support (10/30/30) is again better than AH + EB.

So for soloing, dungeons/high level pve, open world pve farming, small scale pvp, roaming and spvp, other builds will more often than not outperform AH + EM. For group support and combating the current condi meta, other builds will more often than not outperform AH + EM.

For facerolling in a big old zerg, well AH is cool, but quite a lot of builds work in the faceroll that is a big zerg and those other builds will either bring you more dps or more group support.

Ezeriel.9574:

You people make no sense. All I’m hearing is….

“AH+EM is only good in groups”
“The only thing AH+EM does is let you live longer” (that a bad thing?)
“What’s the point of living longer if you aren’t giving your group boons”
“random insults”

Is that all a guardian is? A walking boonbot?

There aren’t any builds that are just walking boonbots. There are builds that aren’t AH and are more supportive than DPS though. Still tanky and controlly though.

Personally, seein AH in supportive builds raises an eyebrow. Especially when people are like “Shouts? You need AH then”. AH doesn’t help you support, it helps you DPS or tank (which has to compete with lower protection/other defensive boon up time), at the expensive of traits that could help you support.

A guardian is an inherently defensive melee class with lots of support abilities. EM + AH lets you maximize your intended class role which is tanky DPS. The semi DPS hybrid anchor build which you see in high fractals comes closest to the ideal design for the class.

What i constantly see in these forums is people trying to turn guardians into warriors. Some even claim the guardian does more DPS than a warrior. This comes from people who are trying to compete with warriors and mesmers in CoF1 and arah speed clears while having their egoes on the line.

The truth of the matter is: IF you want to beat speed clear timers, or play pure DPS you should roll a warrior.

With this out of the way, AH is not only good because of what it does, but you need to invest points in the valor tree to get it. From the valor tree you get 30% crit dmg (huge) and 300 armor. In other words, Valor and Ah improves BOTH you offensive and defensive capabilities. THAT is why its so good.

EM and honor synergise so well with AH thakittens a waste not to take em. Pure of voice is godly as it is and health/healing are good stats to have on any guardian build.

What im trying to say is that Ah+EM can provide so much survivability in group play that it can allow you to stack zerker gear too boost your DPS while retaining some form of tankiness.

Didn’t read all the posts and this has prolly been said but…

10/30/0/30/0 is a great build. Good damage output, allows you to optimize for most 1h weapons and 2h weaps and it can go more support too if needed. AH is powerful but its not needed. I’ve run this build through most dungeons and fractals 30 with mostly Zerker gear successfully.

Ezeriel.9574:

You people make no sense. ….

Awesome, we don’t make sense but you don’t think anything but AHEM build is viable? Truthfully, AHEM build is not the only build that’s viable but it may be the only build that YOU can play that’s viable.

You know, if you took as long into searching and reading the forum for builds that aren’t AHEM as you did making this thread, you would be much further ahead in your education instead of telling experienced Guardians that non-AHEM builds don’t work.

you all can use your ‘burst’ builds, but me and my healiness 0/15/30/20/5, lets me run through zergs to the back of the line and smash the aoers.

20/20/30/0/0 simply best dps traits out.

I’ve seen some AH+EM builds running Soldier runes to cover for PoV and 15 in Radiance with GS or Hammer + Staff to interesting effect. I don’t think it’s standard, but it does what it’s supposed to really well.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

I’ve seen some AH+EM builds running Soldier runes to cover for PoV and 15 in Radiance with GS or Hammer + Staff to interesting effect. I don’t think it’s standard, but it does what it’s supposed to really well.

I used to run that, then I realized AH really isn’t needed in dungeons, so I removed the points up to that and put them elsewhere..Feels much better.

Funset.7893:

GSSBlunaspike.4153:

Ezeriel.9574:

Does anyone have a real build that doesn’t revolve around Empowering Might and Altruistic Healing?

Pretty much all of the burst, damage wvw pvp builds avoid AH. I think the only builds that go into AH/EM are the support/heal oriented builds. Otherwise why are you taking AH?

AH=support/heal oriented…you what mate? AH is the most selfish skill in our arsenal, it heals only the guardian.

That doesn’t change that what I said was correct. AH/EM is a support/heal orient setup. EM gives might to your allies (the support), and self heals (the heal). If you read though I point out that it isn’t a very good setup for that. As other builds typically the 10/30/30 is much better at that job.

I don’t run AH because I can actually dodge instead of just standing there like a noob. Once you learn to dodge AH loses it major appeal (self healing) because complete avoidance will always be better than healing after the damage.

When I see a guardian running AH I assume they are new to the class. If they aren’t then they’ve simply not learned how to dodge important skills yet.

Double/trip meditation burst builds are, in my opinion, much much better than any AH build. I have on demand condi removal, on demand healing, spike damage, sustained damage, blind/blocks for mitigation. Typical ji/sc/sys is just too good to pass up.

you all can use your ‘burst’ builds, but me and my healiness 0/15/30/20/5, lets me run through zergs to the back of the line and smash the aoers.

That’s cool and all, but I just teleport to them and aoe kill them all in a few seconds. I don’t think people realize how much damage happens when you precast focus 5 ji/ww.

Devils.3679:

20/20/30/0/0 simply best dps traits out.

Without Radiant Power? Not really.

CptAurellian.9537:

Devils.3679:

20/20/30/0/0 simply best dps traits out.

Without Radiant Power? Not really.

yeah without radiant power. if you think one single ability makes a build……. gl and lol

How amazing, a bunch of small numbers and a scepter. That attempt to verify your “best dps” claim is just funny.

11.8k isn’t small and the dmg wasn’t from scepter, lol its from cleansing flame and if you are hitting for almsot 12k with cleansing flame that gives you 60k+ chain. tell me how how over 60k in 4 secs is small. what what proof of you great dps do you have?

its dumb to use a guardian for dps. they can do it well, but then you’re just wasting its supportive ability. plus other classes are just better for dps. let them do dps, let us support.

player should be supporting them selves, as nothing so far in this game requires a full support class.

Ezeriel.9574:

I don’t take EM for the might, I take it for the AH procs.

Bingo.

I also have a set of pack runes for further AH procs since they give swiftness, might and fury to the group and proc more often than the 5% chance indicated. At least to me.

AHEM is a nice all rounder build, but i’m not entirely sure how people can think it is somehow “the build” or even an optimal build for most activities.

I find AH useful, but only for certain situations. I have found, during my short time playing this game, that it is not the only spec that is useful. I also have a lot of fun with the 0/0/10/30/30 spec and also the 10/30/0/30/0 spec for PvE play (I mainly do WvW).