Guild Wars 2

i think guardians should have increased (22k) vitality in line with warrior and rev
Discuss.

They already have a higher base toughness, but it really limits us since we always have to go with vitality one way or the other.

An increase can happen, but maybe not to warrior level.

That would lead to reducing/nerfing other abilities which I do not want

If a guardian is built right (this means a bit of vitality on gear) it becomes one of the most durable profession in the game. It survivability is on par with warrior’s and necromancer’s.

A build for full damage still keeps the most of the guardian’s defences so despite they lack the sheer HP amount of a medium or high hitpoint profession a guardian compensates for this with active mitigation.

Do not get me wrong I do like some vitality on my guard this is why I run marauder/carrion/soldier/knight mixes of gear in every game mode (not at the same time obviously :P). My highest HP guardian had 20,6k HP before the GuardStack nerf and it was a frontliner, an anchor in the middle of a zerg. Currently I storm through the new areas with around 15k HP and I while I have to work hard to stay alive my DPS is also pretty impressive. Note: even if I had 20k HP I could still die.

My final thought is that the guardians do lack a few things but the durability and survivability is not one of them.

Happy Guardin’!

Aggro, I agree with the premise of what you said.. but:

My Guardian in full Valkyrie armor, and zerker everything else has just under 14k HP.
My Revenant infull Zerkers is at 19k HP.

I have more experience on my guardian than my rev, guess which one I die more on out in mgauuma? The guardian. I prefer my DH in pvp, but that because DH is what I always wanted my ranger to be.

Yes, dps guardian is so frail and that’s because blocks are pretty kittenty when being glassy. Two fast hits in a row = block first, die to second like a cloth holder.

There should be a trait like “for every berserker stat (strength, precision, crit), get x amount of health points”. This way dps guard gets his needed buff and tanky guards don’t get unkillable.

And there should also be a health signet like the warrior, elemental or thief has, which provides constant healing.

A load of fast hitting attacks aswell as constant mediocre unavoidable damage just kills dps guards, which makes them pretty kittenty for solo pve stuff…

Farzo.8410:

They already have a higher base toughness, but it really limits us since we always have to go with vitality one way or the other.

An increase can happen, but maybe not to warrior level.

Guardians have several small ways of healing yet to much sacrifice to make it decently work.
Guardian have best toughness pool yet toughness is overrated for the small amount of hp we have, also toughness is barelly useless in this game after some amount.

If we try to make toughness work with healing power with a decent vitality to sustain the other 2 stats, we will loose everything else and cant do much besides aegis and speed boon bots.

Anet gave us a trait that increase vit in +300, and a decent boost to output healing, the problem i notice is that we have alot conflicts in the grandmasters after the 23 jully patch, Anet only made it work for the medi guard and borked a bit up the non medi guards.

They should pay attention to that. (imo i had better option before the big patch since i dont use meditations.)
The irony of a balanced class.

Vanilla DPS guards are about high burst damage on fairly long CDs. It’s good for PvP where you face a few very tough enemies with some time between fights.

It is crap for open world where you face an essentially never-ending stream of weaker enemies. This is about using a build that fits the content: build less for burst and more sustained damage (and health).

It may sound silly, but try zerk with a good ’ole fashioned AH/EM shout build running scepter/focus and your choice of hammer or GS.

Grey, I understand tailoring your build and gear to the content you are running, but the HP difference between my rev and guard is pretty drastic. We’re talking 5k, and half my Guard’s gear gives vitality, NONE of my Rev’s does. I don’t necessarily think it needs to be the exact same, but even a 3k buff would be pretty significant.

Probably low hp to balance out the fact that F2 is essentially another fat block of eHP. Also: with revenant having high tier hp, all armor weights and hp tiers are finally evenly represented: 3 high tier hp (warrior, revenant, necromancer), 3 mid tier hp (engineer, ranger, mesmer) and 3 low tier hp (guardian, thief, elementalist). Increasing guardian’s hp would throw off that pretty “balance”!

Xhyros.1340:

Probably low hp to balance out the fact that F2 is essentially another fat block of eHP. Also: with revenant having high tier hp, all armor weights and hp tiers are finally evenly represented: 3 high tier hp (warrior, revenant, necromancer), 3 mid tier hp (engineer, ranger, mesmer) and 3 low tier hp (guardian, thief, elementalist). Increasing guardian’s hp would throw off that pretty “balance”!

dont touch my guardian f2 i sacrifice to much stats for that skill be good, it is very good support for a guardian DH that does not use bow nor traps.

U actually need to use some stats giving healing power + food + sigil for more stats for that skill to have a pretty good heal, and that in guardians is a hell of a sacrifice, with a good vitality and +300 vit trait plus X% outgoing heal boost (adds like arround 1.1k heal to f2) but also takes the place of better traits and more useful traits.
Like i said it is a hell of a “sadcrifice” for a guardian to tune up some skills.

Since our elite signet isnt a good option to use, with its 4seconds cast time and 10 seconds with a1k heal, we need to have other panic button to heal allies.

Adrenalin.5719:

Yes, dps guardian is so frail and that’s because blocks are pretty kittenty when being glassy. Two fast hits in a row = block first, die to second like a cloth holder.

There should be a trait like “for every berserker stat (strength, precision, crit), get x amount of health points”. This way dps guard gets his needed buff and tanky guards don’t get unkillable.

And there should also be a health signet like the warrior, elemental or thief has, which provides constant healing.

A load of fast hitting attacks aswell as constant mediocre unavoidable damage just kills dps guards, which makes them pretty kittenty for solo pve stuff…

What is Kittenty ?!
I see this term kitten turn up a lot lately.
[sub]Are we all in the monarch programming ?[/sub]

Revenant does not have high tier hp, it’s in the medium with mesmer and Engi.

Revenants have a medium health pool

The only two classes that need to be normalized are engineer or ranger. One of them needs a high health pool instead of both having medium.

Oh, in that case I vote for Engi, cuz they’re awesome and fun and I wouldn’t mind them being brokenly OP, amirite?

The guardian even in zerker can tank and live against a hard hitting and slow single opponent for eternity.

The warrior lacks active damage mitigation but it is a strong sponge against fast but weak attacks.

[insert revenant here i yet to start one]

The basic guardian have to make a decision:

“Do I want to face multiple enemies? If yes I have to invest more in vitality and healing power because I’m weak against them…”

Same for the Warri:

“Do I want to face veterans-hard hitting mobs? If yes I have to invest in Toughness/Endurance because my selfregen and HP pool won’t save me against them…”

I do not say the Guardian cannot use some extra HP! I’m aware of the problem: this whole content is against us. Constant attacks cannot be mitigated and our (initial) self sustain is not capable of keeping us alive. So we either need +vitality or +healing power on our gear or we have to be on our toes like no tomorrow…

I’m happy to sacrifice some of my stat to get some extra HP. I hit weaker but I live longer.

And this is the most important thing:

Even after little trades I still do not feel that my DPS sucks. Sure a full zerker can dish out more damage but they already made their sacrifice.

I think the whole concept of the guardian (including DPS-CC-and support) was made by the rule: The Guardian HAVE TO make trade-offs.

Just my 2 coppers…

Aggro, that’s kinda beside the point though. My Rev has more HP, more built in survivability, and does more damage. I’m not saying Guard sucks, but I AM saying that they could use a small HP buff. I know you said you agree, just re-iterating that.

Also, if one class has to make trade-offs, and the others do not, then the one who has to trade is weaker.

Garimeth:

Sure I agree a few HP could help us in the HoT areas. But the OP was asking for 22k base health which is absolutely absurd. The guardian would become an undestroyable profession.

And I think the Guardians’ HP is fine everywhere but in the HoT maps.

Hey we are the dominant “zerkers” (now marauders but still…) in sPvP and killing every other zerkers at our pleasure even if they have a high base HP.

(OK, mesmers giving me bad time but you get my point…:D )

EDIT:

OK so I really have to start my Revenant… You stated your Rev has more survivability (one of this is the sheer amount of HP) and more damage. If the Rev is absolutely overwhelmingly better then my Guardian I have to try it

That is way too high of a base health pool for Guardian.

There are 4 professions in total with 15.922 HP (Engineer, Mesmer, Revenant and Ranger), 3 with 11.645 (Guardian, Elementalist and Thief) and 2 with 19.212 (Warrior and Necromancer).

Garimeth.8725:

Grey, I understand tailoring your build and gear to the content you are running, but the HP difference between my rev and guard is pretty drastic. We’re talking 5k, and half my Guard’s gear gives vitality, NONE of my Rev’s does. I don’t necessarily think it needs to be the exact same, but even a 3k buff would be pretty significant.

I should have clarified, my post was aimed at the 3 posts above mine rather than your OP. I don’t have anything really against an HP buff; I’m just not sure it’s justified given how good guardian sustain can be now.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Garimeth:

Sure I agree a few HP could help us in the HoT areas. But the OP was asking for 22k base health which is absolutely absurd. The guardian would become an undestroyable profession.

And I think the Guardians’ HP is fine everywhere but in the HoT maps.

Hey we are the dominant “zerkers” (now marauders but still…) in sPvP and killing every other zerkers at our pleasure even if they have a high base HP.

(OK, mesmers giving me bad time but you get my point…:D )

EDIT:

OK so I really have to start my Revenant… You stated your Rev has more survivability (one of this is the sheer amount of HP) and more damage. If the Rev is absolutely overwhelmingly better then my Guardian I have to try it

Yeah I agree, my marauders DH is a beast in any team fight. Also, mesmer’s give me the most trouble, that and minion master necros who blow up my traps.

So in pve the reason I find my Rev better than my guard in terms of survivability is it can just do so much damage WHILE it survives. UA, enchanted daggers, vengeful hammers when I run jalis, and the whole boon factory when I run herald (plus infuse light is really strong). I have on demand quickness and self buff myself to like 80% crit and 10 might stacks, so when I want a mob to die I can burst the hell out of it, just need to evade for a bit? Turn of quickness and pop UA. Hurt real bad? Back out and throw hammers through my dark field projectile absorb that’s on a like 12 second cd. I have so much survivability that never requires me to stop doing damage.

I love my guardian, and I love DH, even in pve, but rev is the new Anet love child, and the difference is pretty big imo.

Do not want. A change like this would almost definitely lead to nerfs on more important or fun things. If you really wanna face-tank things, that’s what a warrior is for.

But Warrior and Revenant do not have 26 secs cool down on demand+mobility heal for 4k HP =x

As someone who recently started guardian i like how guardian sits, the defensive skills and buffs with the invulns work well, warriors have good sustain through a giant health pool, reduced conditions and the healing signet but most of this is passive and out of the players hands nice to be in control sometimes lkke you are on guardian…just my 2 cents

yLoon.5289:

But Warrior and Revenant do not have 26 secs cool down on demand+mobility heal for 4k HP =x

Revs do can block everything and heal every 20s(in addition to their normal heal).