"Feel My Wrath!" - Thoughts?

"Feel My Wrath!" - Thoughts?

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Posted by: Soryuju.8164

Soryuju.8164

I haven’t actually seen too much discussion in the Guardian forum about our new Elites yet, and I was curious how people feel about “Feel My Wrath!” now that we know the numbers. To recap:

-10 base seconds of Fury
-5 base seconds of Quickness
-30 second cooldown (!), traitable to 24 seconds
-Can remove up to 2 conditions per cast with Pure of Voice/Trooper Runes, potentially converting one into a boon.
-No indication of a cast time in the patch notes, so until we learn otherwise, I’m assuming it casts instantly like our other Shouts.

Of course, any Elite we get is competing with Renewed Focus for the slot, and RF grants its own shorter-duration Fury when traited, but FMW’s 5 seconds of Quickness on a 24-30 second cooldown is really something. If we want to make comparisons, the Mesmer’s Time Warp Elite currently provides up to 10 seconds of pulsing Quickness to allies standing in the circle, but on a 180 second cooldown, and it’s still considered a good Elite skill (I’m not going to discuss its upcoming buffs here, though). FMW can provide half that effect at least 6 times as frequently, with a more flexible range and Fury as well. I haven’t had the chance to review all of the other balance changes yet, but it seems like a strong contender for the best source of party-wide Quickness in the game.

Quickness also has some pretty great synergy with some of our weapons, especially our 2-handers:

-Some people currently use Sigils of Rage with the GS in PvP to take advantage of how deadly its burst can be while under Quickness, and bringing FMW will let you replace that sigil while gaining the same effect (plus Fury) more consistently.

-Hammer’s slow animations suddenly become much less of a burden while the shout is in effect, making it easier to land clutch control skills, burst down targets, or even drop Symbols of Protection.

-Empower on the Staff doesn’t leave you exposed for nearly as long under Quickness (and gives you some nice Might stacks to complement FMW’s boons) and Line of Warding becomes even more disruptive when you can basically drop it out of nowhere. The new Staff trait also increases boon duration by an unspecified amount, improving the Fury/Quickness from FMW even more.

Besides specific weapons, my understanding is that FMW will also have synergy with Shelter, since Shelter’s channel is independent of the 2 second block the skill grants. If this is accurate (and please correct me if it’s not), then casting FMW before Shelter will accelerate Shelter’s heal while allowing us to block for a short time after the channel completes. This will make it more difficult for unblockable interrupts to put Shelter on cooldown and lets us use Shelter to set up other skills, or to regain momentum in a fight (especially with Smiter’s Boon).

There’s lots of other great utility packed into Quickness, like how it speeds up downed state revives and finishes, and since we’ll have Slow to contend with in the next patch, being able to speed your animations back up when you can’t cleanse seems valuable (I assume Slow and Quickness cancel out). I’d like to know what everyone else thinks, though. For all that it brings, do you think FMW will still get edged out by RF, or do you think it will see play in some builds/game modes? Discuss!

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

I noticed FMW and had to take a second glance.

It’s definitely a contender to Renewed Focus in power builds. No one can argue the merits of Quickness. The quick stomps alone are game changers. Add F3 Stability and you’re basically uncounterable. More importantly, it’s to All allies and not just yourself. This makes for some very powerful syncronized burst engagements. It feels like a Warrior’s elite to be honest

People will either want more sustains and utility effects from Renewed Focus or gain burst from FMW.
Overall, I’m happy with the change.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Keksmuffin.1450

Keksmuffin.1450

Will be sick for dungeons, underwhelming everywhere else because Renewed Focus is way too important on meditation builds in PvP.

Bullet Punch

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Posted by: cymerdown.4103

cymerdown.4103

FMW doesn’t edge out RF, it puts it on a golf tee and knocks it out of the universe. To say 24 second Time Warp + Fury is anywhere remotely close to being fair is a ridiculous statement. We are the new kings of Guild Wars 2, and as the great Duke Nukem once said, “Hail to the king, baby.”

Kensuda (Bunker Guardian)
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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

FMW doesn’t edge out RF, it puts it on a golf tee and knocks it out of the universe. To say 24 second Time Warp + Fury is anywhere remotely close to being fair is a ridiculous statement. We are the new kings of Guild Wars 2, and as the great Duke Nukem once said, “Hail to the king, baby.”

That shout would be good if we HAD some movement slowing effect. But ppl will easy go out of your combat range if they see you used that “Hail to the king baby” skill. Shouts are bad in pvp and wvw somewhere between spirit weapons and sigils.

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Posted by: cymerdown.4103

cymerdown.4103

It’ll be good in PvP, you’ve got a whole rest of your team for CC and movement-changing effects. Guardian shouts have always been fine in PvP, just overshadowed lately in the meta by other more broken builds.

Kensuda (Bunker Guardian)
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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

It’ll be good in PvP, you’ve got a whole rest of your team for CC and movement-changing effects. Guardian shouts have always been fine in PvP, just overshadowed lately in the meta by other more broken builds.

I’ve never lost to any shout dps guards, shout bunkers die easily when they use all they defensive stuff. They are useless in pvp and wvw because there are lots of builds that steals/convert/strap your boons easily. I dont know why you think they are fine.

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

Both tomes are good now, when using them, i was using them just for one skill mostly so they are ok i guess.

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: cymerdown.4103

cymerdown.4103

Because I’ve played bunker guard since launch and it was top-tier till the cele amulet patch (April 2014, RIP, never forgive, never forget). Go check out old VoDs on twitch/youtube.

Kensuda (Bunker Guardian)
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(edited by cymerdown.4103)

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Because I’ve played bunker guard since launch and it was top-tier till the cele amulet patch (April 2014, RIP, never forgive, never forget). Go check out old VoDs on twitch/youtube.

You said:

…Guardian shouts have always been fine in PvP, just overshadowed lately in the meta by other more broken builds.

Lately from april 2014 till june 2015? That’s almost year and a half. Shauts are useless.

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Posted by: Linnael.1069

Linnael.1069

OP in Stronghold with all the channels you have to sit through.
Even better in PvE

Stormbluff Isle – Syliara
Elementalist – Necromancer – Warrior

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Posted by: Aeolus.3615

Aeolus.3615

OP in Stronghold with all the channels you have to sit through.
Even better in PvE

>_> anything works in pve…

1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.

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Posted by: lilz shorty.1879

lilz shorty.1879

FMW will only be usable in bunker builds. Use it on a zerker dos guardian and you will be the main target and die so easily. We don’t have escapes/blinks/stealth or any other reliable way to mitiagte damage in dire situations other then our heal, which gets interrupted easily without stab in this meta.

It will be good for stomps/Rezes and teammates as a bunker tho and THAT ONLY.

“Morfeus X” || Team: Apex Prime
“Best Guardian NA”

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Nope.

Away from the DH line, the Shout can potentially cleanse 2 conditions and supply team wide Quickness and Fury every 24s. That means you don’t need a 2 second invulnerability on a 72s cd to slowly peel away. They’re the ones who will be running away everytime you pop this Elite. We’ll obviously go Indomidable Courage and take F3 Stability so your entire team won’t get CC’d as easily.

Lesbihonest, Absolute Resolution is the main utility that Renewed Focus is used for. We practically get that every 24s now instead of 72s.

AoE quickness + team synchronization will be insane. If you’re not on a coordinated team then sure, run Renewed Focus. But you can’t dare say FMW is inferrior as the 24s cooldown, 2 cleanse + Quickness, alone, is borderline OP on any given team.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: lilz shorty.1879

lilz shorty.1879

Lol I do on a support guardian and you obviously don’t pvp at a high level to understand my PoV. It doesn’t matter if ur team has synergy. You will be such an easy target even if you use DH and the shout which is one of the core problems with guardian not having any escape/resetting mechanism. You don’t need to be Einstein to recgonize this.

“Morfeus X” || Team: Apex Prime
“Best Guardian NA”

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Posted by: Asmodal.6489

Asmodal.6489

Shout is awsome

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Lol I do on a support guardian and you obviously don’t pvp at a high level to understand my PoV. It doesn’t matter if ur team has synergy. You will be such an easy target even if you use DH and the shout which is one of the core problems with guardian not having any escape/resetting mechanism. You don’t need to be Einstein to recgonize this.

Your ego is overwhelming.
Everyone knows that’s a Guardian’s core weakness. You don’t need to participate in high level PvP to realize that.

I see FMW being used as a more viable dps alternative compared to RF, both in dps and bunk support builds. We’re both entitled to our opinions as they’re nothing more than personal assumptions until HoT releases.

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: lilz shorty.1879

lilz shorty.1879

Lol I do on a support guardian and you obviously don’t pvp at a high level to understand my PoV. It doesn’t matter if ur team has synergy. You will be such an easy target even if you use DH and the shout which is one of the core problems with guardian not having any escape/resetting mechanism. You don’t need to be Einstein to recgonize this.

Your ego is overwhelming.
Everyone knows that’s a Guardian’s core weakness. You don’t need to participate in high level PvP to realize that.

I see FMW being used as a more viable dps alternative compared to RF, both in dps and bunk support builds. We’re both entitled to our opinions as they’re nothing more than personal assumptions until HoT releases.

Once again you don’t read my post or understand context. I didn’t say you need to pvp at a high level to recognize that’s a guards core weakness but rather state it as apart of the argument.
I am also acting this way because I don’t mean to sound rude, but people like you trying to back anets failed attempt at helping us is what’s irritating. I understand their are benefits but our negatives have weighed us downed for so long and sugarcoating it and looking at it from one side does nothing.

“Morfeus X” || Team: Apex Prime
“Best Guardian NA”

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Posted by: cymerdown.4103

cymerdown.4103

Morf’s right, shout elite = bunker/support gerd. Medi gerd needs RF to survive burst combos.

I guess with this update that it’s also possible there’s some sort of viable symbol support DPS build that uses shouts with 60660 but I doubt it.

Kensuda (Bunker Guardian)
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(edited by cymerdown.4103)

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Posted by: Linnael.1069

Linnael.1069

OP in Stronghold with all the channels you have to sit through.
Even better in PvE

>_> anything works in pve…

I’m talking about organized groups for fractals and stuff. You could do open world pvp naked with one finger :P

Stormbluff Isle – Syliara
Elementalist – Necromancer – Warrior

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Posted by: Masshunter.2198

Masshunter.2198

I’m pretty sure this elite makes up for and exceeds any damage nerfs we received with the trait specializations. Especially when you consider this shout will not only affect yourself but also your team mates!

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Posted by: Lumines.3916

Lumines.3916

I see a lot of potential with the new elites. Hell you could even stack two guardians, one gives the other quickness when they use Signet of Courage active! I like that both of them have something that is worth trading off RF in the right situation/builds now.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Assuming the cast time is instant then:

PvP DPS Build
FMW! will work for DPS guardians at low and mid-level PvP where they’ll quickly explode unsuspecting players with stacked burst. It will be quite hilarious with Judge’s Intervention and hammer ring into greatsword. At higher skill levels, the cheese factor can easily be avoided. And once the quickness ends, it will be too easily punished, as Shelter is the only defense.

PvP Support/Bunker Build
I think FMW! may be a little broken here, since it’s a team effect without locking players into an area like Time Warp. If you thought burst was scary now, a coordinated team will do it in 2/3 the time with FMW! And with such a short cooldown, it can be used multiple times per fight. Other activated quickness sources are double the cooldown and self-only and then Time Warp which is 6x the cooldown and limited to an area.

Group WvW
FMW! may see limited use when the guardian is in a group of backline DPS casters. Necro wells ticking faster and life-blast machine gun will be powerful burst on an enemy group. But for general group play, the immunity and virtue reset of Renewed Focus is so much better. They may even prefer the new elite signet.

PvE
If PvE remains as it is currently, FMW! can easily be substituted for Renewed Focus in most fights.


Unforunately, the PvP implications make me think that FMW! will have a cast time. Instant cast would be too cheesy for average players in PvP, and the group burst potential with no wind-up is a little overwhelming when used by organized groups. It’s worth noting that the tome ability was a 2 second cast time and there is precedent for cast-time shouts with the Reaper elite specialization.

If FMW! has a cast time, it drastically limits the use by support/bunkers in PvP, and I think they’ll go back to Renewed Focus or possibly the new elite signet. Sadly, I see FMW! being too hard to balance well, and it will be relegated to PvE and only used because defenses aren’t needed that much in PvE.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Mallis.4295

Mallis.4295

Looking forward to trying it on condi guardian. Probably going to end up sticking with RF. It’s just too good.

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

FMW is going to be great everywhere. Imagine with me for a second:

Medi/shouts with current pvp valk amulet. Radiance, Valor, Honor. JI, CoP, SYG, FMW. Not as bursty, but tons more survivable. Quick stable stomps, group utility, quite a few weapon options.

Hybrid/Condi Guard. Radiant Fire, Supreme Justice, Permeating Wrath. Pop Torch 4 and FMW, Cleansing Flame sears through its channel delivering all those delicious aoe burn procs, then toss #4 to finish. CF is no longer a dps liability, plus retains its ally condi removal. Rinse/repeat every 24-30s.

I can’t wait to get my computer fixed to I can actually play with these changes. FMW really should end up mostly replacing RF in pve, and will have its uses in wvw and pvp.

That shout would be good if we HAD some movement slowing effect. But ppl will easy go out of your combat range if they see you used that “Hail to the king baby” skill. Shouts are bad in pvp and wvw somewhere between spirit weapons and sigils.

If only Hammer had a trait that caused chill 33% of hits (granted, presence of an icd is unknown)

Fishsticks

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Posted by: Alpha.1308

Alpha.1308

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

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Posted by: mrauls.6519

mrauls.6519

Been playing as dps shouts for 3 years. It’s gonna be the kitten!

Mes (Guardian)
I make PvP & WvW videos

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Posted by: misterdevious.6482

misterdevious.6482

Birdbomb

  • Mad King Runes (Birds hit 3 enemies 16 times each)… 45 second cooldown.
  • That’s 48 hits… so 9 passive triggers of justice or 16 passive triggers of justice (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can trigger a 5 target AoE burn (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can grant you 10 seconds of Might if you’re wielding a Scepter with the new scepter trait.
  • Combine with Dragonhunter traps that hit really fast and also apply bleeding.
  • Remember this is all happening extremely fast due to Quickness.

I’m not playing like that… and I’m afraid of the people who will.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

It’s going to be the new Rune of Krait “condi burst” that’s for sure.

The biggest counter though, is retaliation.
It’s why Guardian’s never used it in the first place.

It’s indeed more powerful now but 600+ retaliation ticks per second sucks! :<

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

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Posted by: Linnael.1069

Linnael.1069

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

Straight up GG why did I not think of this. If you stack yourself up with max boon duration on gear you only need 2 guards for 20s/24.

Guilds will be able to speedkill worldbosses on pug maps by stacking guards and giving permaquickness to all the randoms.

Stormbluff Isle – Syliara
Elementalist – Necromancer – Warrior

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Posted by: Nike.2631

Nike.2631

Birdbomb

  • Mad King Runes (Birds hit 3 enemies 16 times each)… 45 second cooldown.
  • That’s 48 hits… so 9 passive triggers of justice or 16 passive triggers of justice (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can trigger a 5 target AoE burn (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can grant you 10 seconds of Might if you’re wielding a Scepter with the new scepter trait.
  • Combine with Dragonhunter traps that hit really fast and also apply bleeding.
  • Remember this is all happening extremely fast due to Quickness.

I’m not playing like that… and I’m afraid of the people who will.

I have to admit… you’ve just made me WANT to play that . I was trying to decide what runes to roll with on my DH…

“You keep saying ‘its unfair.’
I wonder what your basis for comparison is…”
- Jareth, King of Goblins.

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Posted by: OJM.5103

OJM.5103

From a PvE perspective it’ll be a really nice addition to a large majority of dungeons and fractals (the quickness at least) as fury isn’t at all a problem with an organised group. I’ll still take RF however in some cases because the extra aegis can definitely save a life!

PvP though I think RF is too critical for survival especially if you’re being focused and use it at the right moment, but I guess we’ll see how it plays out.

Inb4 that CD gets nerfed into the ground though…

[GAMW]

(edited by OJM.5103)

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Posted by: Spartacus.3192

Spartacus.3192

Saiyan has a point tho. Rune of the Krait 6th bonus
“+20% bleeding duration; when you use your elite skill you inflict bleeding, torment, and poison for 8 seconds to nearby foes. (Cooldown: 30s) "

Feel my Wrath is on 30s cd untraited so could be kinda fun for condi bombing.

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

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Posted by: Asmodal.6489

Asmodal.6489

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

for pve you do not even need to rotate it. haste is a buff now. it stacks in duration.

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Posted by: Asmodal.6489

Asmodal.6489

Birdbomb

  • Mad King Runes (Birds hit 3 enemies 16 times each)… 45 second cooldown.
  • That’s 48 hits… so 9 passive triggers of justice or 16 passive triggers of justice (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can trigger a 5 target AoE burn (traited)
  • Each passive hit of justice can grant you 10 seconds of Might if you’re wielding a Scepter with the new scepter trait.
  • Combine with Dragonhunter traps that hit really fast and also apply bleeding.
  • Remember this is all happening extremely fast due to Quickness.

I’m not playing like that… and I’m afraid of the people who will.

Got that build already set up.
As long as HoT is not out DH I will be substituted for valor (or radiance as an obvious choice)

however, add communal defense, shattered aegis, courageous return, RF and retreat as utility there might be another fun (probably not viable) WvWvW build option there.

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Posted by: Xhyros.1340

Xhyros.1340

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

for pve you do not even need to rotate it. haste is a buff now. it stacks in duration.

Oh, so you’ve played the beta? How many stacks of quickness can be applied before it starts replacing older stacks?

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Posted by: Alpha.1308

Alpha.1308

i don’t wanna read all of the posts but upon quick searching i saw no mention of “5 guards” or “100% quickness uptime”
can we taco bout this
5 guardians rotating this for 100% quickness uptime when traited/possible boon duration in place of trait

for pve you do not even need to rotate it. haste is a buff now. it stacks in duration.

Oh, so you’ve played the beta? How many stacks of quickness can be applied before it starts replacing older stacks?

shhhhh easy does it
no need to start arguments over nothing, he’s not disagreeing with me at least
let’s just bathe in the 100% quickness uptime

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

I think what was meant to be said was, “Quickness it a boon, and would stack in duration as opposed to intensity”.

Most boons stack duration up to 9 times, with retaliation being an exception. Retaliation happens to stack 5 times, which makes that a moot point. You wouldn’t need to play in a beta to safely predict that.

Fishsticks

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Posted by: YuiRS.8129

YuiRS.8129

FMW will only be usable in bunker builds. Use it on a zerker dos guardian and you will be the main target and die so easily. We don’t have escapes/blinks/stealth or any other reliable way to mitiagte damage in dire situations other then our heal, which gets interrupted easily without stab in this meta.

It will be good for stomps/Rezes and teammates as a bunker tho and THAT ONLY.

Yeah Shelter sure does get interrupted easily. So many Mace Warriors with Signet of Strength running around.