Guild Wars 2

Ok i try to reelaborate my anger in something constructive.

I like the idea of a magical Fighter strong when buffed, but weak when without buffs, but this concept is not well handled on our class, because our boons are exaclty the same used by other classes.
Now reelaborate Major traits to buff boons is not the right way, because that type of traits, are needed to creare the real build, but what about Minor traits?So This is my idea.

Link a type of boon with a particular traitline and tweak the minor traits of that line to give improvement on that particular boon. (better effect, more stacks\duration, linked boons)

I was thinking about something like this:

Zeal: Might improvement
Radiance: Swiftness improvement
Valor: Protection improvement
Honor: Regeneration improvement
Virtues: i dont know what to link, but i think that this traitline already buff all the boons.

now 2 things

• im not proposing to Replace our minor traits with new traits, but simply add to that traits a minor boost to a particular boon, so if you invest 25 point on zeal, your might boon will be very powerful (for example) compared with the might generated by a guardian with 0 points on zeal.

• I prefer to not discuss values or particular effects to add, because is a very difficult work of balance, i can make some example but out of the original proposal.

Some example

Zeal line:
every point assigned to the zeal line give to the guardian a better application of the might boon.
Actual might formula: 0.375 * Level + 5 = 35 attack power or condition damage at level 80 per stack
My formula: (0.375 * level) + 5 + (points on zeal * 0.3)= 44 attack power or condition damage per stack at level 80 WITH MAXED ZEAL LINE, if you have no points on zeal, formula work in the old way.
Traits:

• Zealot speed give you a 5% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
• Simbolic exposure give you a 7% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
• Simbolic power give you a 10% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
  a little note to all, before say that this tweak is OP, keep in mind that in order to max zeal line, the guardian have to drop defenses, so its a perfect solution to the ones that want to play as fullglass cannon.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Radiance:
Swiftness duration : Base boon duration + boon duration modifyer+ (points on radiance* 0.134)
Basically with 30 point on radiance you gain 4 seconds on the swiftness duration.
Traits:
justice is blind When you gain swiftness, you gain 2 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
renewed justice When you gain swiftness, you gain 3 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
Radiant power When you gain swiftness, you gain 4 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects (i dont know if its the case to touch this trait that is powerful enoght, for me its better to stop at the step 2)

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Valor:
Protection Damage reduction: 33% + (points on valor * level * 0.003) = 40% damage reduction with maxed valor line at level 80.
i dont touch minor traits here, the formula effect is powerful enough

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Honor
Regeneration duration: Base boon duration + Boon modifyer + (point on honor * 0.134)
Same duration addiction as radiance, 4 seconds when maxed line.
I dont touch minor traits here, not because the formula is strong, but because minor traits on this line are the best minor traits we have.

Virtue
Aegis improvement here i not propose a real formula, but a simply aegis improvement by the tweak of 2 traits.

• Virtues of retribution: Aegis can block 2 attacks before vanish
• Power of the virtuous: Aegis can block 3 attacks before vanish
  —————————————————————————————————————————————

Except we already have a trait-line focused on boosting the strength of your boons…
You even recognize it yourself, but fail to realize it makes your argument look ignorant.

Me thinks you’re just unsatisfied with your own performance and taking it out on the Guardian profession.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Don’t forget that Guardians are suppose to be a supportive class as well.

Every class is a supportive class on this game by core mechanic and guardians is not supposed to be a support only dedicated class, So i undestand what you are saying but there is a simple solution to this, maybe selfish but its a solution.
Simply apply this improvement to the boons applied to the guardian because its the guardian that MUST fell powerfull when buffed, so other classe receive the normal version (that is still a buff so no harm) and the guardian receive the improved version based on the traits he choose.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Except we already have a trait-line focused on boosting the strength of your boons…
You even recognize it yourself, but fail to realize it makes your argument look ignorant.

Me thinks you’re just unsatisfied with your own performance and taking it out on the Guardian profession.

i really have no problem with “my performance”, im just angered by the recent Ah nerf, but this is another topic.
And for the virtue traitline, is a 360° boons boost duration, but it not improve single boons effects.
Im just basing this proposition on what devs wrote in the last patch notes

I like this idea, it would be neat to have protection be slightly better when traited or have our regeneration be different/better than the regeneration basically any class can give.

What was the recent AH nerf? Did I miss it? (EDIT: is this the change to the vigor on crit? I can see where this would reduce the effect of AH due to less vigor applications).

In support of the OP, the dev’s have described this class as:

•The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

So boons are worth discussing in this light. Saying the OP is “ignorant” or a “bad player” is really quite lame.

I think it’s an interesting idea and neat design concept. My only concern is those trait lines already have a focus that is similar to the boon idea. So maxing out Zeal already does nice things to our Power attribute — having it also jack up Might could be a bit over the top.

juno.1840:

What was the recent AH nerf? Did I miss it?

im referring about the Vigorous precision change, but its discussed on other thread ^^

Saying the OP is “ignorant” or a “bad player” is really quite lame.

I really dont care what ppl think about me, im “too old” for this lol ^^

I think it’s an interesting idea and neat design concept. My only concern is those trait lines already have a focus that is similar to the boon idea. So maxing out Zeal already does nice things to our Power attribute — having it also jack up Might could be a bit over the top.

Well you are right with this, but take on mind that a build is composed By at least 3 traitlines. So with this change even a build that take only 5 points on the zeal line can have a little improvement on the might boon. And a boon must be tied to a traitline with some kind of RP motivation ^^

ok after some “study” around the wiki, i have some example to propose. an take into account theese are only my examples.

Zeal line:

every point assigned to the zeal line give to the guardian a better application of the might boon.

Actual might formula: 0.375 * Level + 5 = 35 attack power or condition damage at level 80 per stack

My formula: (0.375 * level) + 5 + (points on zeal * 0.3)= 44 attack power or condition damage per stack at level 80 WITH MAXED ZEAL LINE, if you have no points on zeal, formula work in the old way.

Traits:
Zealot speed give you a 5% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

Simbolic exposure give you a 7% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

Simbolic power give you a 10% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

a little note to all, before say that this tweak is OP, keep in mind that in order to max zeal line, the guardian have to drop defenses, so its a perfect solution to the ones that want to play as fullglass cannon.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Radiance:

Swiftness duration : Base boon duration + boon duration modifyer+ (points on radiance* 0.25)
Basically with 30 point on radiance you gain 4 seconds on the swiftness duration.

Traits:
justice is blind When you gain swiftness, you gain 2 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects

renewed justice When you gain swiftness, you gain 3 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects

Radiant power When you gain swiftness, you gain 4 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects (i dont know if its the case to touch this trait that is powerful enoght, for me its better to stop at the step 2)
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Valor:

Protection Damage reduction: 33% + (points on valor * level * 0.003) = 40% damage reduction with maxed valor line at level 80.

i dont touch minor traits here, the formula effect is powerful enough
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Honor

Regeneration duration: Base boon duration + Boon modifyer + (point on honor * 0.25)
Same duration addiction as radiance, 4 seconds when maxed line.

I dont touch minor traits here, not because the formula is strong, but because minor traits on this line are the best minor traits we have.

Virtue

Aegis improvement here i not propose a real formula, but a simply aegis improvement by the tweak of 2 traits.

Virtues of retribution: Aegis can block 2 attacks before vanish
Power of the virtuous: Aegis can block 3 attacks before vanish
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

I now before post this reply, i want to remark one thing. on this post i have make only mere examples, i dont pretend to be a real dev, i have a little experience in modding shards on NWN, so i use my little experience on this.

Edit

a little sidenote on how aegis work, its a month that i dont actively play on game so i havent tested it, but its better if aegis block attacks only if there arent other block effects active (like protector strike, shelter, zealot defence), this is only to NOT WASTE our active defences if Virtue of courage refresh aegis during a skill activation, and to not waste our overall defense.

I actually like this line of thinking. Its different and creative, I think it would go a long way to making guardians feel unique. More of a boon master then a pseudo warrior. Good idea OP, lets hope a dev reads this.

I would honestly just give fury to radiance and leave swifness for virtues instead of mixing them into one line. I do agree we need more ways for fury though and maybe instead of buffing the duration of fury or crit chance maybe have it add some crit damage (at most like 5% more) because honestl 20% added crit chance is pretty strong and really doesnt need more. And also i see fury as more of a burst style buff than one that should be up all the time.

Bakitten291:

I would honestly just give fury to radiance and leave swifness for virtues instead of mixing them into one line. I do agree we need more ways for fury though and maybe instead of buffing the duration of fury or crit chance maybe have it add some crit damage (at most like 5% more) because honestl 20% added crit chance is pretty strong and really doesnt need more. And also i see fury as more of a burst style buff than one that should be up all the time.

this mean add skills and ability that add more fury, swiftness is a way more accessible to guards then fury, and with this tweak the guard can choose if attack and rely on crits, or flee\run.

looking our actual Self source of swiftness:

• Simbols of swiftness: 15 sec cd untraited \need staff
• Save your self: 60 sec untrated, 48 sec with trait (on this case the tweak is useless, SYS provide a longer source of fury then my tweak) Fill an utility slot
• retreat: 60 sec untraited, 48 sec with trait, fill an utility slot.
• Smither boon (tome of wrath): i never use the tome, buf is it work, is another surce of switfness for us, but if means fill the elite Slot. and usable every 180 seconds

Our fury source

Save yourself (look above)
Inner fire: Gain fury when you suffer from burn condition
Zealot fervor (tome of wrath) Every 180 sec
———————————————————————————————————————-

now on my example i prefer to mix swiftness and fury, because i look radiance as the High mobility guardian traitline. Move or do burst damage., and well because Swiftness is a boon that guardian cant use always (just look the skills cd) and the fury duration provided by my tweak is not so long, but it can make the difference if used wisely.

and i have to be honest but i think that the 20% crit chance provided by fury, is a way too high, its better to not increase it

Well thats part of what i mean. We have plenty of useless traits that we could switch to give some sort of small fury buff. Like our retaliation on heal better belongs in virtues as virtues has all the retal traits. Just improving some of the useless traits to help with fury would make alot of sense.

Bakitten291:

Well thats part of what i mean. We have plenty of useless traits that we could switch to give some sort of small fury buff. Like our retaliation on heal better belongs in virtues as virtues has all the retal traits. Just improving some of the useless traits to help with fury would make alot of sense.

thats for sure.
id love to exchange all that +5% damage to a single weapon with traits that provide more boon strenght or apply conditions. But The whole concept of this idea is provide a sostancial bonus to us (based on the devs guardian description)without recreate things.

ok ill add some trait idea to this

Zeal line:
every point assigned to the zeal line give to the guardian a better application of the might boon.
Actual might formula: 0.375 * Level + 5 = 35 attack power or condition damage at level 80 per stack
My formula: (0.375 * level) + 5 + (points on zeal * 0.3)= 44 attack power or condition damage per stack at level 80 WITH MAXED ZEAL LINE, if you have no points on zeal, formula work in the old way.
Traits:
Zealot speed give you a 5% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
Simbolic exposure give you a 7% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
Simbolic power give you a 10% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects
a little note to all, before say that this tweak is OP, keep in mind that in order to max zeal line, the guardian have to drop defenses, so its a perfect solution to the ones that want to play as fullglass cannon.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Radiance:
Swiftness duration : Base boon duration + boon duration modifyer+ (points on radiance* 0.25)
Basically with 30 point on radiance you gain 4 seconds on the swiftness duration.
Traits:
justice is blind When you gain swiftness, you gain 2 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
renewed justice When you gain swiftness, you gain 3 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects
Radiant power When you gain swiftness, you gain 4 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects (i dont know if its the case to touch this trait that is powerful enoght, for me its better to stop at the step 2)
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Valor:
Protection Damage reduction: 33% + (points on valor * level * 0.003) = 40% damage reduction with maxed valor line at level 80.
i dont touch minor traits here, the formula effect is powerful enough
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Honor
Regeneration duration: Base boon duration + Boon modifyer + (point on honor * 0.25)
Same duration addiction as radiance, 4 seconds when maxed line.
I dont touch minor traits here, not because the formula is strong, but because minor traits on this line are the best minor traits we have.
Virtue
Aegis improvement here i not propose a real formula, but a simply aegis improvement by the tweak of 2 traits.
Virtues of retribution: Aegis can block 2 attacks before vanish
Power of the virtuous: Aegis can block 3 attacks before vanish
—————————————————————————————————————————————

Zeal:

• Greatsword power: Damage increase by 10%

• Scepter power : When you crit with a scepter attack you apply burn to your enemy.

• Zealous blade: heal you based on the formula (Level*0.225)+(healing power*0.03) , if you stack no healing power the trait heal you for a lower value then the original trait, but if you stack healing power the heal will be better and better.
  Some calculation based on this formula:
  With no healing power= 18 hp/hit
  With 300 healing power=27 hp/hit
  With 1000 healing power= 48 hp/hit

Radiance

• Inner fire: gain 5 seconds of fury when you are inflicted by 2 or more conditions (45 sec CD)
• Powerful blades: When you crit with a sword or spear attack, you apply 2 stacks of bleeding and you are healed by 18 hp

Valor

• Mace of justice: increase the mace autoattack speed. (i dont know if its possibile without break the animation.)

• Glacial heart: same effect but CD reduced to 25 seconds

Honor:

• Wrathful spirit: Aegis Give you 3 seconds of Fury when it ends. (ok this is selfish, i hate retaliation lol, but i think it will be better with fury ^^)

• Battle precence: this triats is buggy, but even if it work, give no benefit to the guardian that use it. So simply shift this from grandmaster to master

• Writ of exaltation (writ of exaltation + writ of persistence) This become a grandmaster trait, simbols are larger and last longer. (after this, we miss a trait to the honor line, every advice is welcomed, and i was thinking about something relate to staffs and tridents but i have no ideas for now)

Virtues:

• Unscathed Contender: give +50% damage when under the effect of aegis (if the enemy dont waste a single attack to strip aegis from us, its his fault if he die!)

• Permeating wrath: Virtue of courage grant 3 seconds of fury when you activate it

Ganzo.5079:

ok after some “study” around the wiki, i have some example to propose. an take into account theese are only my examples.

---

Zeal line:

every point assigned to the zeal line give to the guardian a better application of the might boon.

Actual might formula: 0.375 * Level + 5 = 35 attack power or condition damage at level 80 per stack

My formula: (0.375 * level) + 5 + (points on zeal * 0.3)= 44 attack power or condition damage per stack at level 80 WITH MAXED ZEAL LINE, if you have no points on zeal, formula work in the old way.

Traits:
Zealot speed give you a 5% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

Simbolic exposure give you a 7% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

Simbolic power give you a 10% change to gain another stack of might when you gain might, with the other offects

a little note to all, before say that this tweak is OP, keep in mind that in order to max zeal line, the guardian have to drop defenses, so its a perfect solution to the ones that want to play as fullglass cannon.
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Radiance:

Swiftness duration : Base boon duration + boon duration modifyer+ (points on radiance* 0.25)
Basically with 30 point on radiance you gain 4 seconds on the swiftness duration.

Traits:
justice is blind When you gain swiftness, you gain 2 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects

renewed justice When you gain swiftness, you gain 3 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects

Radiant power When you gain swiftness, you gain 4 seconds of fury too, with the other traits effects (i dont know if its the case to touch this trait that is powerful enoght, for me its better to stop at the step 2)
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Valor:

Protection Damage reduction: 33% + (points on valor * level * 0.003) = 40% damage reduction with maxed valor line at level 80.

i dont touch minor traits here, the formula effect is powerful enough
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

Honor

Regeneration duration: Base boon duration + Boon modifyer + (point on honor * 0.25)
Same duration addiction as radiance, 4 seconds when maxed line.

I dont touch minor traits here, not because the formula is strong, but because minor traits on this line are the best minor traits we have.

---

Virtue

Aegis improvement here i not propose a real formula, but a simply aegis improvement by the tweak of 2 traits.

Virtues of retribution: Aegis can block 2 attacks before vanish
Power of the virtuous: Aegis can block 3 attacks before vanish
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————

I now before post this reply, i want to remark one thing. on this post i have make only mere examples, i dont pretend to be a real dev, i have a little experience in modding shards on NWN, so i use my little experience on this.

Edit

a little sidenote on how aegis work, its a month that i dont actively play on game so i havent tested it, but its better if aegis block attacks only if there arent other block effects active (like protector strike, shelter, zealot defence), this is only to NOT WASTE our active defences if Virtue of courage refresh aegis during a skill activation, and to not waste our overall defense.

I think your ideas are cool but I’m going to be honest I do not like the RNG part of your proposition. The only thing it will do is make players have less control of their character since they will be victims to “chance”. I’d rather have a consistent value with a moderate cooldown tied to it.

Aza.2105:

I think your ideas are cool but I’m going to be honest I do not like the RNG part of your proposition. The only thing it will do is make players have less control of their character since they will be victims to “chance”. I’d rather have a consistent value with a moderate cooldown tied to it.

the only part that rely on RNG is the might addition stacks on the zeal line. 10% chance to double a single stack of might(whit 25 points on zeal) is a good addition for us and its not a killer ability. and tied with that there is the improved might formula that is THE CORE part of the zeal proposition ^^
The rest of the quoted part is RNG free :P

i edited the first post With my proposal, with the correct formulas.
I cant add the trait modification part to that post due to space limit :P

I don’t really think it’s a practical approach to have a tiered approach for boons. Frankly, I think the only way to make guardians relatively more powerful with boons compared to other classes (that’s how I interpret the language of the dev’s description) is to tone down the ability for other classes to access boons. That way, the impact of receiving them will be more significant if someone is imparted boons from a guardian. I do argee with the sentiment of the OP though … it goes without saying that people feel more powerful with boons than without. That statement sounds great but it has zero significance.

The other method is to make a boon that is awesome can only be given to others by a guardian. Aegis is a bit close to that idea.

You know I was playing with a new build and I realized something. Might is the perfect example of what we need. Might is the only boon which stacks its buff instead of duration. If more boons worked like this then guardian would be pretty set in its place with boons. I am not sure how a rework like would work without it being overpowered but it would certainly have to be limited to themselves. And only stackable to certain amounts.

i want a bigger heal burst on my party thats what i want! lol

I like the idea that OP propose but it might be to complex.

If we really are supposed to be the master of boons why not fix that with the boon we can apply the most. Retaliation.

Instead of tweaking the entire trait tree for the other boons and revamping boons, just revamp retaliation and make it an active and very powerful boon instead of a lame, skilless powerful boon.

Why not make retaliation reflect all/part of incoming damage to the attacker if the damage is applied when the guardian/player dodges/avoids damage by dodging.

This would also fully compensate our shortcomings at ranged combat and also have great synergies with vigor which would make vigor a very powerful boon indeed. This would empasize the role of the guardian as an in your face/melee profession with poor ranged options.

And it would be 100% skillbased opposed to todays retaliation.

Just food for thoughts..

@brutality
your idea is good and intresting, but its simply dont solve the actual problem of lack of build variety.
Now im not saying tha my idea is can solve all the problems of our class, but the boon tweak + traits tweaks that i proposed always on this thread, can Revamp some builds.

just one stupid example, look the tweak to powerful blades, with some bleeding stack on one of our weapons, it can make viable some sort of Condition damage build if associated with an high crit build. Im Just proposing not only a boon revamp (that is essential to match the devs description) but also some type of class variety addiction

When i read OP i understood it as your main concern was indeed us being imaged as “boonfighters” and using boons would/should add uniqueness to the profession.

Now i understand that one other issue is that you think we dont have access to diversified builds and i only agree with you partially.

I have seen builds in wvw/pve/tpvp that utilises all master traits besides zeal and that worked really nice. I actually think we have a lot of choices to make and all lines, besides zeal, actually have choices that are valid for a 30 point investment.

So basically fix the zeal line, there are plenty of suggestions on how to do that, and our freedom of choice would increase dramatically.

Giving boons a special twist/effect in guardians traitlines would have a huge impact on other professions which are also supposed to be supportive in nature.

Imo a smarter move is to focus on whats unique, retaliation is one example, and empasize that to create the master of boons.

So in short, fix the zeal line (which would be needed in your scenario as well, for more valid builds), fix worthless traits (which would be needed in your scenario as wel, for more valid builds) and fix retaliation to create our unique position as a master of boons. We are the kings of retaliation, why not use that as the platform for making us in your face boonkillers. This would also make a lot of traits more worth, like retal on heal.

Infact fixing retaliation would have great impact of the value of the zeal tree as well, if the just kept the scaling as it is.

I think your suggestion is great but:
1. I find it to be to complex
2. Have a huge relative impact of the value of other classes who wants to be supportive
3. Uneccessary complex for fixing the issues we have. Its a complete revamp we are talking about and i dont find that needed at all.

Brutaly.6257:

Giving boons a special twist/effect in guardians traitlines would have a huge impact on other professions which are also supposed to be supportive in nature.

i understand you argument, but this make me thinks that maybe i express badly myself.
Im not aim to make guardian a better supporter.
The boons improvement are applied only to the guardian so, if a guardian use Hold the line and have the maxed valor traitline, the guardian Get the 40% damage reduction, all the other member the classic 33%. Same thing is for boons duration, or boon application.
If a guardian with maxed radiance line use retreat, the guardian get 4 additional seconds to swiftness, 4 seconds of fury, and the aegis boon, all the other members get the normal shout bonus.

RP talking its like if the guardian Study a particular discipline to improve the magic affects applied to him to better level, a method to overcome the lack of physical traning (the opposite of the warrior), so a zealot guardian is more focused on heavy offensive boons (might), a radiance guardian focus himself on versatility, a valor guardian look the enemy straght in the face without move (damage reduction), an honor guardian learn how to improve his healing ability (its reming me tsunade from naruto lol), and a virtue guardian improve the signature virtue boon (aegis)

1. I find it to be to complex
2. Have a huge relative impact of the value of other classes who wants to be supportive
3. Uneccessary complex for fixing the issues we have. Its a complete revamp we are talking about and i dont find that needed at all.

1)maybe, but not so much as you think (from my perspective)
2)already explained that is not a support role boost
3)yes its exactly a complete class revamp, now looking you suggestion, it can be good too(and its simplest then mine), we need a lot of work on our traits, not only on zeal (that is anyway the worst traitline we have, an its become worse after the SOW nerf) but also, a total rwork of other traitlines.

I re-quote my traits propositions

Zeal:

• Greatsword power: Damage increase by 10%
• Scepter power : When you crit with a scepter attack you apply burn to your enemy.
• Zealous blade: heal you based on the formula (Level*0.225)+(healing power*0.03) , if you stack no healing power the trait heal you for a lower value then the original trait, but if you stack healing power the heal will be better and better.
  Some calculation based on this formula:
  With no healing power= 18 hp/hit
  With 300 healing power=27 hp/hit
  With 1000 healing power= 48 hp/hit

Radiance

• Inner fire: gain 5 seconds of fury when you are inflicted by 2 or more conditions (45 sec CD)
• Powerful blades: When you crit with a sword or spear attack, you apply 2 stacks of bleeding and you are healed by 18 hp

Valor

• Mace of justice: increase the mace autoattack speed. (i dont know if its possibile without break the animation.)
• Glacial heart: same effect but CD reduced to 25 seconds

Honor:

• Wrathful spirit: Aegis Give you 3 seconds of Fury when it ends. (ok this is selfish, i hate retaliation lol, but i think it will be better with fury ^^)
• Battle precence: this triats is buggy, but even if it work, give no benefit to the guardian that use it. So simply shift this from grandmaster to master
• Writ of exaltation (writ of exaltation + writ of persistence) This become a grandmaster trait, simbols are larger and last longer. (after this, we miss a trait to the honor line, every advice is welcomed, and i was thinking about something relate to staffs and tridents but i have no ideas for now)

Virtues:

• Unscathed Contender: give +50% damage when under the effect of aegis (if the enemy dont waste a single attack to strip aegis from us, its his fault if he die!)
• Permeating wrath: Virtue of courage grant 3 seconds of fury when you activate it

since there are foes out there that are able to remove or turn your boons i am not a fan of anything boon related.

raubvogel.5071:

since there are foes out there that are able to remove or turn your boons i am not a fan of anything boon related.

Thats exactly a part of the game, we cant be invicibles ^^
If an enemy hit your weak point, you have to be ready with a plan (B)

I’d like to see the removal of Retaliation. But in return, give us more access to boons more frequently like the Elementalist has. As “boon fighters” we have very low durations to said boons with long cds.

Arken.3725:

I’d like to see the removal of Retaliation. But in return, give us more access to boons more frequently like the Elementalist has. As “boon fighters” we have very low durations to said boons with long cds.

That exactly a part of what i think. As “boons fighters” we can rely on the uptime of a single boon, that is not offensive or defensive, is just a passive tool to deal damage.

The 3 boons that must be improved for guards are:

• Might: we have a good amount of might generation, but we cant stack it on a good number.

• Protection: protection is good for us, some guardian build rely on an havy proptection uptime, but there are classes with the same (if not better) protection uptime, but we are supposed to be the defensive class O.o

• Regeneration: only for the low health issue. on my proposition i proposed something that can cover this issue for a bit (a little boon uptime for this) but its only a proposition, this boon can be boosted in a lot of way.

Theese 3 for me are the 3 signature boons for guardians. Retaliation as i said is not defensive or offensive, is just a passive damage tool (and in an action game in blasphemy) and aegis is just “uneffective”, it can be invalidated by one single attack, it will be better is instead of block an attack, it block a definite amount of damage and the vanish (idea that i have on this moment while im writing lol):

Something like 3 or 4K of direct damage block at level 80 upgradable with traits, so:

(1) it can trigger our block traits
(2) it cant block condition damage.

With this, it can be good as Heavy hitting mitigator, control multi hit abilities and its not wasted if the enemy autoattack.

Seems like a well thought out idea, but it’s unlikely to ever happen. The whole reason why this boon system was introduced at all was so that they can normalize all buffs into one standard. Back in GW1’s time they had enchantments giving buffs of their own and the enchantment based classes had stronger enchantments. They scrapped that for the current implementation in GW2.

The biggest problems with guardians right now seems to be that everyone is feeling pigeonholed into valor/honor builds because our only viable utilities are either shouts or meditation. The biggest deviation to this is maybe those who sacrifice one slot for sanctuary. It’d be much better if they make our clearly underpowered or underutilized utility skills functional, so we can have a more diverse playstyle.

Heinel.6548:

Seems like a well thought out idea, but it’s unlikely to ever happen. The whole reason why this boon system was introduced at all was so that they can normalize all buffs into one standard. Back in GW1’s time they had enchantments giving buffs of their own and the enchantment based classes had stronger enchantments. They scrapped that for the current implementation in GW2.

The biggest problems with guardians right now seems to be that everyone is feeling pigeonholed into valor/honor builds because our only viable utilities are either shouts or meditation. The biggest deviation to this is maybe those who sacrifice one slot for sanctuary. It’d be much better if they make our clearly underpowered or underutilized utility skills functional, so we can have a more diverse playstyle.

Well thanks, but its not really a problem if my whole idea will be cornered. Im just pointing my finger on the existing issues of our class, and for me Propose something that i studied is better then simply say : “HEY THIS THING DONT WORK, FIX IT”.

Now looking on this thread, we all think on the same way, our class is pretty strong, but:

• Dont fit that famous description, we are just pigeonholed to the bunker role after every patch, we have a very poor control mechaninc, and our boons have nothing special compared with other classes
• We lack of build variety, and after every patch we lost some viable build without some kind of compensation to revamp another build\role , i dont know, maybe they think that if they remove our OP mechaninc, we will spread around the old and uneffective builds, but the real result is that we simply go in the same direction, the ONE OP BUILD, no one want to play a kittenty build.

They are unlikely to overhaul any system post launch. The best we can hope for is tweaks. Some can be just numerical changes. Purging flames is clearly underpowered, but if they drop its cooldown to be more in line with smite condition maybe people will consider it. Others might need functional tweaks, like hallowed ground is too niche right now. Is there anything we can do to make it a viable alternative to stand your ground? Like say, let it pulse blind on enemies?

Then there’s the spirit weapons, which are technically not utility skills at all. They give extra damage, but no stun breaking, no IMS, no gap closer. Currently the only spirit weapon builds are glass-cannon gankers with no mobility, are we okay with that? Should we rethink what spirit weapons do for us?

Those are changes that actually has a chance to get into the game, and could make guardians less of a one trick pony with dry game play.

Heinel.6548:

They are unlikely to overhaul any system post launch. The best we can hope for is tweaks. Some can be just numerical changes. Purging flames is clearly underpowered, but if they drop its cooldown to be more in line with smite condition maybe people will consider it. Others might need functional tweaks, like hallowed ground is too niche right now. Is there anything we can do to make it a viable alternative to stand your ground? Like say, let it pulse blind on enemies?

Then there’s the spirit weapons, which are technically not utility skills at all. They give extra damage, but no stun breaking, no IMS, no gap closer. Currently the only spirit weapon builds are glass-cannon gankers with no mobility, are we okay with that? Should we rethink what spirit weapons do for us?

Those are changes that actually has a chance to get into the game, and could make guardians less of a one trick pony with dry game play.

There are a lot of thing on our class that Can be good, but are just Tasteless.

Spirit weapons are just one of them, but also consacrations, and simbols need love.
And the whole “Field control” and “Position punishment” concepts that for now are just Absent.
The only skill that grant some kind of Field control and position punishment is “wall of reflection”

The only spirit weapon I find useful is the hammer, that’s it. The consecrations are decent but along with symbols, I don’t like having to stand in one place for a benefit. This game is dynamic, constantly moving. I don’t see why certain skills can’t be revamped? Here’s my list of changes.

-Remove retaliation(it’s a lazy buff to inflict damage)
-change symbols to auras (make the necessary nerfs/buffs as needed)
-Have spirit weapons give a reasonable purpose and improve AI
-increase boon time when specced for it(just like how elementalists are)

Arken.3725:

-Remove retaliation(it’s a lazy buff to inflict damage)
-change symbols to auras (make the necessary nerfs/buffs as needed)
-Have spirit weapons give a reasonable purpose and improve AI
-increase boon time when specced for it(just like how elementalists are)

1) remove retaliation can be traumatic for alot of people (i hate it too anyway) but simply tweak it, less uptime, with a real damage reflection.

2) i dont like the idea of the auras, i prefer something to lock the enemy, like a slow\chill\immobolize field, based on the current simbols uptime. And maybe, see simbols on the two weapon that remain without them (swords and scepters)

3)agree

4)agree

I just don’t like having to be in one place to stay alive.

Arken.3725:

I just don’t like having to be in one place to stay alive.

Its not just stay alive.
If simbols become auras, the only way to balance them is delete or heavily nerf the damage and\or every possible malus applied to the enemy, because it will become worse then retaliation, you damage the enemy without attacking him, but only staing near him… isnt it pretty OP?.

IF simbols have a movement malus addicion to the enemy(with the other effects), you can be twice effective without be OP, you can get your boons, you can damage the enemy for a while when is “trapped” by you simbol (you have to be skilled because you have to trap the enemy, thats the funny part :P) and with the slow effect you can prevent your enemy to flee for a while, so you can damage him with your skills “arsenal”.
this is just an improvement to the concept of “melee only class”

That makes sense, we just need a cripple attached to the symbols to actually keep players in them.

Arken.3725:

That makes sense, we just need a cripple attached to the symbols to actually keep players in them.

Exactly, a slow effect based on the simbol spam rate..because simbol of protection is more spammable then simbols of wrath. and simbols of Swiftness can be used without be on melee situation. so for me.

Simbol of protection=nothing, hammer is just powerfull enough as weapon.

Simbol of swiftness = cripple (it provide just a good movement addiction)

Simbol of faith = chill or cripple

Simbol of wrath = immobilize or chill. (not sure here, gs is an heavy hitting weapon, maybe cripple can work just fine here but the simbol is kitten slow)

and also id like to see a simbol applied to the other two weapon, to expand this theory

I actually quite like the fact that we could opt out of symbols. Though they do have to fix Smite’s animation. It looks too much like a symbol, in big fights, it’s very confusing for allies.

But the boons durations and the Cd, kills me X_X…..i always rush when others are behind i love to go a destroy enemies sieges always. But fun is fun at wvw .

I also feel sometimes slow compared to others class.(Run)

But well im an anti zerg buffer, but i dont like the model that guardian have to take mostly all if these keep being the same thing we will dont have options on ours builds.

Ok i was roaming around my whole idea the last night, and maybe i have something different to apply. Is a different idea that aim to improve two things:

1)simbols and consacrations.
2)aegis boon.

- As i said on the last post, our class need some kind of “soft” close range control, this thing can be simply don by the modification of simbols and consecrations to provide some kind of malus to the enemy that step on this marked areas. (that’s for me is the real mean of field control), Now the optimal tools for this tweaking are: Cripple, Chill, immobilization, I dont like to much, stuns and knock back but they can be added too (this is only for personal taste).

- the most important thing, A boon to help the guardian too feel strong when its active. Retaliastyion is just tasteless, and other classes can use it too, with lower uptime, but it can be used by them too.
Now we have only ONE boon that is exclusive for the guardian class, and it AEGIS, but the actual effect, is surely usefull (some damage reduction is always welcomed) but it dont help to feel strong.

So i propose to modify enterely the aegis boon to provide a direct damage block and a little bonus to our toughness (that is our primary defense stat).

• Damage Block provided: 38 * char level = 3040 damage block at level 80 (i have to look better this, its only a beta formula XD)

• Toughness added: 2 * level = 160 toughness when aegis is UP.

Now a couple of note to make this work properly.
SKills that cast AOE aegis, apply the whole effect to the party, but the effect dont stack. So if 2 guardians use two aoe aegis skills, the first aegis effect it will be simply “refreshed” to the level of the last Skill used.

Thi modification can be improved by traits on all the trait lines to improve how aegis work:
- more uptime
- More aegis casting methods (for now only 2 methods are active)
- Different boon tied to aegis.

Useless to say that the more ways we have to keep aegis up, and less damage aegis have to block, to mantain a certain balance.
WIth this tweak, traits that work when “aegis is up”. are more helpfull, because to make aegis vanish with one hit, your enemy need to hit you really hard! same thing for that talent traits that work on block. Less damage the enemy do to you, more block you have and with this more proc traits.

Edit:

Last thing: REMOVE AEGIS FROM THE RANDOM BOON CASTING