Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Sakrasta.6538

Sakrasta.6538

Arenanet finally did it, they fixed Symbolic Avenger, now they should change it to +20% to make it actually useful.

(edited by Sakrasta.6538)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Dristig.9678

Dristig.9678

Nerf incoming…

(edited by Dristig.9678)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Actually it’s 10%. normal dmg without trait is 500 crit 980 with trait its 550 and 1070…pretty normal to me. Tested on heavy golem dummy.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Sakrasta.6538

Sakrasta.6538

Actually it’s 10%. normal dmg without trait is 500 crit 980 with trait its 550 and 1070…pretty normal to me. Tested on heavy golem dummy.

You are actually correct, dmg modifier on burning which was triggered by symbols messed with my numbers.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Question is, can we layer our own symbols to gain a 20% modifier for a short burst…or is it a flat 10%? I’m fine with it not stacking with others because that was broken, but self stacking was interesting.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: creepmatic.9435

creepmatic.9435

Question is, can we layer our own symbols to gain a 20% modifier for a short burst…or is it a flat 10%? I’m fine with it not stacking with others because that was broken, but self stacking was interesting.

Yes, I would like to know that aswell, would be nice to get 10% dmg for each of our overlapping symbols.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Landaren.9875

Landaren.9875

I’ll stick with valor radiance and virtues and just not use symbols at all. Sword still does good damage and scepter is still our best dps weapon. Torch for both and just burn it all down

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Lampshade.7569

Lampshade.7569

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

How about 10% and symbol generating abilities recharge 33% faster?

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: perko.8309

perko.8309

+20% seems right to me. It’s a situational GM trait.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

How about 10% and symbol generating abilities recharge 33% faster?

Somebody plays Mace

Fishsticks

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Medicarejunkie.6032

Medicarejunkie.6032

My sword hates this thread

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: NumenorLord.6539

NumenorLord.6539

I’m glad it’s finally working. It should give 20% as it’s nor permanent unless you mix it with another trait (Writ of Persistence) and use certain weapons (Hammer, Mace and Greatsword).

Zeal has always been a traitline with unappealing GM traits (even before the specializations) and should be reworked because, in this moment, it pigeonholes our choice.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

the overall uptime of actually having a symbol down plus locking an enemy in the symbol is tough.

thats why as a gm trait it should be back up to 20% dmg or something add’l.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Why? Because you guys want it to be? What does it fight with for a slot? Are either of the other two GMs even worth considering outside niche builds?

Sure, I want to agree and get a free 10% more damage, but I’m having trouble coming up with a rational for it. “Because it’s a GM” simply doesn’t cut it. Thanks to it and other changes guardians are able to do more damage than ever. As a PVE guard you’re basically guaranteed to want Zeal already with Fiery Wrath and if GS build Zealous Blade, then symbol damage and burns with Symbolic Avenger a delicious cream cheese icing on the top. Sure I’d never turn down getting some sprinkles too making the topping even better, but why do they have to be there? Ok, I’m making myself hungry now, but still, what’s the rational on why it has to be stronger?

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Aedrion.6483

Aedrion.6483

Symbolic Avenger: Increases damage done to enemies standing in your symbols by 10% and has a 33% chance to cause cripple for 2 seconds to targets taking damage from your symbols.

Boom, done. Seriously. How hard is it to balance a game? :P

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

Why? Because you guys want it to be? What does it fight with for a slot? Are either of the other two GMs even worth considering outside niche builds?

Sure, I want to agree and get a free 10% more damage, but I’m having trouble coming up with a rational for it. “Because it’s a GM” simply doesn’t cut it. Thanks to it and other changes guardians are able to do more damage than ever. As a PVE guard you’re basically guaranteed to want Zeal already with Fiery Wrath and if GS build Zealous Blade, then symbol damage and burns with Symbolic Avenger a delicious cream cheese icing on the top. Sure I’d never turn down getting some sprinkles too making the topping even better, but why do they have to be there? Ok, I’m making myself hungry now, but still, what’s the rational on why it has to be stronger?

becasue if u can actually lock down an opponent in your symbol you should be rewarded. GS symbol last 4 seconds. not a whole lot of uptime on it. if u can lock them down for the full 4 secs, it should be rewarding.

just because the alts stink, is not an excuse to say it stinks less, so it shouldn’t be improved.

its lunchtime,

i have a crap sandwich. there’s also a worm, maggot filled crap sandwich, and a pile of crap (no bread to make sandwich!)

why should i say, well the crap sandwich is better than the alts, so i should be happy w/ it. y cant i say, i’d rather have chicken than crap in my sandwich.

now there’s a food metaphor

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

Why? Because you guys want it to be? What does it fight with for a slot? Are either of the other two GMs even worth considering outside niche builds?

Sure, I want to agree and get a free 10% more damage, but I’m having trouble coming up with a rational for it. “Because it’s a GM” simply doesn’t cut it. Thanks to it and other changes guardians are able to do more damage than ever. As a PVE guard you’re basically guaranteed to want Zeal already with Fiery Wrath and if GS build Zealous Blade, then symbol damage and burns with Symbolic Avenger a delicious cream cheese icing on the top. Sure I’d never turn down getting some sprinkles too making the topping even better, but why do they have to be there? Ok, I’m making myself hungry now, but still, what’s the rational on why it has to be stronger?

becasue if u can actually lock down an opponent in your symbol you should be rewarded. GS symbol last 4 seconds. not a whole lot of uptime on it. if u can lock them down for the full 4 secs, it should be rewarding.

just because the alts stink, is not an excuse to say it stinks less, so it shouldn’t be improved.

its lunchtime,

i have a crap sandwich. there’s also a worm, maggot filled crap sandwich, and a pile of crap (no bread to make sandwich!)

why should i say, well the crap sandwich is better than the alts, so i should be happy w/ it. y cant i say, i’d rather have chicken than crap in my sandwich.

now there’s a food metaphor

If you can’t take advantage of the extra 10% burst on your opponent with your GS in PvP then perhaps you need a little more practice, it’s pretty easy to have area control during a fight with symbols.

If you can’t keep a PvE mob in your symbol well… Maybe guardian isn’t the class for you. The trait is fine and already powerful in a line that adds a huge amount of damage to guardian play. Buff the other traits so this GM isn’t the default.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Why? Because you guys want it to be? What does it fight with for a slot? Are either of the other two GMs even worth considering outside niche builds?

Sure, I want to agree and get a free 10% more damage, but I’m having trouble coming up with a rational for it. “Because it’s a GM” simply doesn’t cut it. Thanks to it and other changes guardians are able to do more damage than ever. As a PVE guard you’re basically guaranteed to want Zeal already with Fiery Wrath and if GS build Zealous Blade, then symbol damage and burns with Symbolic Avenger a delicious cream cheese icing on the top. Sure I’d never turn down getting some sprinkles too making the topping even better, but why do they have to be there? Ok, I’m making myself hungry now, but still, what’s the rational on why it has to be stronger?

becasue if u can actually lock down an opponent in your symbol you should be rewarded. GS symbol last 4 seconds. not a whole lot of uptime on it. if u can lock them down for the full 4 secs, it should be rewarding.

just because the alts stink, is not an excuse to say it stinks less, so it shouldn’t be improved.

its lunchtime,

i have a crap sandwich. there’s also a worm, maggot filled crap sandwich, and a pile of crap (no bread to make sandwich!)

why should i say, well the crap sandwich is better than the alts, so i should be happy w/ it. y cant i say, i’d rather have chicken than crap in my sandwich.

now there’s a food metaphor

You are rewarded, just not as much as you’d like though. But, between 10% more on symbols and them having a chance to burn. 7% from fiery wrath, 5% from zealous blade and now 10% from Symbolic avenger you’re going to lay down quite a burst.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Symbolic Avenger: Increases damage done to enemies standing in your symbols by 10% and has a 33% chance to cause cripple for 2 seconds to targets taking damage from your symbols.

Boom, done. Seriously. How hard is it to balance a game? :P

This would be new reborn of us Guardians

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Symbol builds in pvp would need sustain.

healing symbols don’t do near enough, forcing us to rely on monks focus or altruistic healing if running as a tight group. So in essence, no one really pays attention to symbol heals at all.

sustain builds should have been: Symbol heals, AH heals, Meditation heals, cleric gear

Course now we have the potential to do:
Symbols + AH
Symbols + MF

AH and MF are “burst” healing sources though, and Symbols should have been “sustain” healing. Right now our only sustain is burst or full on clerics gear.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

So let’s review something. Symbols give vuln AND burning when they pulse. Traited, that means you get 10% from the symbol, +7% against burning foes, plus whatever vulns you put down which is at least 1-2% . That means you can get about 20% increase in damage to people you can get in your symbol. Plus if you can stack burning (easy on a guard) you can join that with getting fury which means +20% crit chance. With GS5 plus wrath of justice you can nuke your opponent pretty easily.

For PvP, where people need to be on point, symbols are the counter to warriors. Against mesmers or Rangers is where you have issues.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

True for PVP, in PVE symbols are very powerful. Zeal/Honor/Radiance is quite a nice PVE build right now with hammer or GS then mace/torch. Goal being at or nearly 100% symbol uptime with writ of persistence and 10% extra damage from zeal minor is nice.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

So let’s review something. Symbols give vuln AND burning when they pulse. Traited, that means you get 10% from the symbol, +7% against burning foes, plus whatever vulns you put down which is at least 1-2% . That means you can get about 20% increase in damage to people you can get in your symbol. Plus if you can stack burning (easy on a guard) you can join that with getting fury which means +20% crit chance. With GS5 plus wrath of justice you can nuke your opponent pretty easily.

For PvP, where people need to be on point, symbols are the counter to warriors. Against mesmers or Rangers is where you have issues.

Go ahead play it, film it, let us know how you like it. Please do report back

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

I agree with you, they should contribute to area denial in pvp. Meaning they should be punishing if stood in, not easily laughed at and ran past. Would that mean they should do more damage? I’m sure no one wants to see that after what happened recently with the stacking bug, but a compromise in sustain and/or in damage to make them useful in mobile fights may be what they need.

Right now, even if you stand in a symbol it is not that bad. Necro wells work “well” because they can be layered on top of eachother to do stacking damage in a short duration of time. Guardian symbols tick at the same speed, but you can get 2 or 3 decent overlapping ticks, versus necro wells that have 3 damaging sources and additional ranged aoe ticking in unison, all contributing to burst damage.

At the moment necros “area denail” far better than the advertised frontline first in last out “punish the enemy for ground” guardian….

(edited by CMF.5461)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: OanSur.4590

OanSur.4590

Symbolic Avenger: Increases damage done to enemies standing in your symbols by 10% and has a 33% chance to cause cripple for 2 seconds to targets taking damage from your symbols.

How about 10% and symbol generating abilities recharge 33% faster?

+20% seems right to me. It’s a situational GM trait.

How about something more simple and class-appropriate?
Your symbols work as a fire fields

I would gladly take that instead of flat 10% dmg.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

I have been running this for the last two months and have been discussing this build with Hollts for a bit.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR5dlsAhmhY5QwbIwPEHxDlNEu3HtGANQ9i7hkYLA-TpRHwADOCAFeAAs2fQwBBAwFA4YZAA

It works for me. Purging flames+Focus 5 for might, swap on might, gs for might. Passive healing with celestial is fine. You have teleports, immobilization, and symbols to crit. Good fury up time. Honestly, I have a lot of fun playing it. I don’t normally video but I would offer you to play this in PvP (not WvW).

EDIT: Things to note, when standing in GS 3 you will heal 140 per tick due to the two combined traits of GS and Symbols. Vigor and dodge help you heal more. Invigorating bulwark is your heal. You need to switch to that for defense to up your healing. You can get about 150 extra healing with that easily. That will increase symbol of faith’s healing. Focus 5 will trait into Bulwark to get the stacks you need plus aegis.

I enjoy it I guess but if it’s not good enough for higher tier, that’s cool too.

(edited by Thiefz.3695)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Thiefz, I appreciate the honest effort and yes I will try out the build and not just ignore it and say things suck. Thank you for the contributions

I will ask, how do you think this fares in comparison with the more traditional condi burn builds as opposed to a hybrid celestial setup?

Also, lack of the typical sustain via mf or ah. Do you find it noticeable, or are symbol heals providing enough between heal cooldowns?

(edited by CMF.5461)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

In terms of sustain, MH and AH have a place. AH will always be good for bunker builds. I played a modified shout build pre patch but I haven’t gotten back into it for any length of time to be useful. I never felt that I was beneficial because an AH build requires that you be with the group. If you are on point solo, AH really didn’t get me much more sustain. In return MH was good for bursting but didn’t offer any team support. Symbols allowed me to offer aoe healing AND damage with the inclusion of Purging flames for burning and condi cleanse.

As for your first point, vulnerability has changed the way we need to think about condition damage. Necros got a great addition but Guardians did as well. Burning damage is high but the amount of vulnerability we can give with the amount of burning means we can easily get +10% burning damage onto an opponent. Typically in a condition build (i don’t play them often on a guard) suffers from a lack of power. Might stacking and vuln stacking benefit celestial’s attributes. Add in fury for additional crits and you can get the passive benefit of condition damage with your power.

It’s saying that you are going to use 1 weapon because both are strong when you could use two moderately good weapons that may do the same thing. I refer to this build as the anti bunker build. It’s decent against elementalists but you have trouble with mesmers or rangers due to the lack of Ranged defense. The key is you need sustained damage and passive healing because a bunker can eat the damage spike.

EDIT: It fills a similar role as AH or MF for this build. The anti bunker comment may be over reaching. It allows me to be a bit more versatile.

(edited by Thiefz.3695)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Well, the positive side. I ran a couple of hotjoin matches just to test sustain, and it is comparable.

Not a true test, but I didn’t feel completely squishy. Probably due to the celestial stats.

I don’t feel the damage is there, but I did not get a good chance in the hotjoins I did to do anything significant.

I’m not the best player, but for science, I’ll stream some unranked matches with the build and see how it does. Will edit with twitch info after I set it up and then save the stream for later analysis.

http://www.twitch.tv/1cmf

(edited by CMF.5461)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

I agree with you, they should contribute to area denial in pvp. Meaning they should be punishing if stood in, not easily laughed at and ran past. Would that mean they should do more damage? I’m sure no one wants to see that after what happened recently with the stacking bug, but a compromise in sustain and/or in damage to make them useful in mobile fights may be what they need.

Right now, even if you stand in a symbol it is not that bad. Necro wells work “well” because they can be layered on top of eachother to do stacking damage in a short duration of time. Guardian symbols tick at the same speed, but you can get 2 or 3 decent overlapping ticks, versus necro wells that have 3 damaging sources and additional ranged aoe ticking in unison, all contributing to burst damage.

At the moment necros “area denail” far better than the advertised frontline first in last out “punish the enemy for ground” guardian….

Area denial tools accessible to a guardian far outstrip what a necromancer can offer, in my opinion, due to the hugely AoE nature of a guardian and the sustainability of it. Symbols can’t be taken alone in consideration for the pressure a guardian can put out in an area, and I hardly see anyone just ignore them in a PvP setting with the prevalence of glass builds anymore.

I didn’t touch on PvE because well.. Symbols are amazing there and hardly 6 need extra love, let alone how this trait serves as a decent conditional steroid in a line that can boost your overall damage by nearly 25%

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

Just remember that F1 is key. You get an immob when you proc it and then hit your target. Once immob, you can place your symbol from GS and lay down your fire field. You can switch to mace/focus 5 to get the might blast. Lay another symbol if you are still on your target from the mace. You should be able to keep 2-3 stacks of burning going.

EDIT: If you can lay the fire field ahead of time, you can use GS leap for fire shield.

(edited by Thiefz.3695)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Recorded a couple of matches, I did horribly! BUT a couple of fights I think the build showed it’s potential as far as ability to sustain and fend off point caps and bunkers. Will archive on twitch when I can and highlight it.

…………………I got a new monitor and its a higher resolution…..capture software only recorded PART of my screen…..

Ok, I think I fixed myself Will stream a couple more games for better review.

(edited by CMF.5461)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.

I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.

Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.

(edited by Arken.3725)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.

I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.

Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.

dis guy gits it!

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Did four unranked runs with Thiefz’s symbol build and recorded it for study and proof of concept.

I have been running this for the last two months and have been discussing this build with Hollts for a bit.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAR5dlsAhmhY5QwbIwPEHxDlNEu3HtGANQ9i7hkYLA-TpRHwADOCAFeAAs2fQwBBAwFA4YZAA

Unfortunately the first two are set at the wrong resolution, but enough of the screen should be visible for study and observation.

It performed well enough, but I don’t know if the damage is comparable in terms of threat and burst.

Healing via symbols is mostly unobserved I feel, and is just ancillary to the main objective, which is to provide AoE damage on a point.

Team support is hard for me to notice, but the immobilize on VoJ proved to be nice to lock down a kill as a group.

Overall I think it is a viable build that could be expanded upon. Maybe different sigils/runes?

For those interested they are listed below:

Test 1 (broken resolution, sorry)
http://www.twitch.tv/1cmf/c/6940171
Test 2 (broken resolution, sorry)
http://www.twitch.tv/1cmf/c/6940181
Test 3
http://www.twitch.tv/1cmf/c/6940336
Test 4
http://www.twitch.tv/1cmf/c/6940345

Thanks again Thiefz, I appreciate any and all theory crafters.

(man, resolution is grainy and pixelated…I really should find a new video cap software…but its free!)

https://obsproject.com/
twitch suggested this free vidcap software, looks better and runs better than xsplitter (previously suggested by twitch) and it’s all open source free!… thought I would throw it out there for anyone else who wanted to stream and didn’t know how to get started.

(edited by CMF.5461)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

Symbols are definitely a significant part of the guardian’s repertoire. Of the 6 mainhand/two handed weapons we have, 4 have a symbol and 1 more has (arguably) a skill that really should be a symbol. The bow, which will be introduced with HoT, will also have a symbol.

And from a broader point of view, nearly everything guardian currently has is focused around area denial in some form. Consecrations, wards, and symbols all make for excellent area denial, but the problem is and has always been that we have very little at our disposal to KEEP enemies in place to take our damage. Area denial isn’t very effective outside of conquest PvP where there isn’t a particular area to defend.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.

I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.

Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.

Symbols are hard to use? I’ve been PvPing on my guardian for a couple years now, unless they magically changed how damage patches with effects work they’re not all that difficult. You’re hyperbolizing.

Symbols deal damage, provide boons, and you can’t simply look at them in a vacuum and cherry pick to compare against other abilities. It’s a cohesive picture for guardians that can apply a huge amount of AoE pressure and burst potential in an area compared to many other classes especially. Symbols are a tool, and they have minor traits with ONE major trait that’s a flat 10% DPS boost in a trait line that already grants access to other steroid bursting without requiring management of our F1 utilities around it as well. Symbols are fine, in PvE they’re incredibly powerful additional DPS tools and in PvP they can be used for area denial and additional damage while forcing your opponent to fight in them.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

Like I said, keeping anyone with half a brain inside of them is nigh-impossible. Unless you’re running hammer(and even then), good luck making half-use of them. And it’s not “huge amounts of AoE pressure” by any means. The damage is decent with more sustained potential, not burst.

Symbols are fine in PvE where your enemy never moves. PvP, quite the contrary and as I’ve said before, skills that require you to keep an enemy need to be quite a bit stronger than those that can be used without such restrictions.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

Symbols are definitely a significant part of the guardian’s repertoire. Of the 6 mainhand/two handed weapons we have, 4 have a symbol and 1 more has (arguably) a skill that really should be a symbol. The bow, which will be introduced with HoT, will also have a symbol.

And from a broader point of view, nearly everything guardian currently has is focused around area denial in some form. Consecrations, wards, and symbols all make for excellent area denial, but the problem is and has always been that we have very little at our disposal to KEEP enemies in place to take our damage. Area denial isn’t very effective outside of conquest PvP where there isn’t a particular area to defend.

So.. just WvW where guardians shine in a variety of other ways? There are 2 game modes where symbols rank from amazing to situationally powerful, and one game mode hyper dominated by massive mobility where guardians are not the only ones suffering for area control abilities are STILL have plenty of mobility associated with their skills. Like. Of the things to whine about for guardians I’d think Spirit Weapons and Shield would get far more attention than an actually good trait for symbols.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Ars Valde.8693

Ars Valde.8693

Like I said, keeping anyone with half a brain inside of them is nigh-impossible. Unless you’re running hammer(and even then), good luck making half-use of them. And it’s not “huge amounts of AoE pressure” by any means. The damage is decent with more sustained potential, not burst.

Symbols are fine in PvE where your enemy never moves. PvP, quite the contrary and as I’ve said before, skills that require you to keep an enemy need to be quite a bit stronger than those that can be used without such restrictions.

Keeping someone in your symbol is not a goal. They’re decent damage, but the point is to pressure them off with additional damage and control their movement. And if you think guardians don’t have AoE pressure/burst in PvP.. well. I mean. Have you never played Meditation?

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Arken.3725

Arken.3725

Sigh, why do I even bother. That is the one of your primary goals is to keep them inside for what you call, “burst potential.” And you cannot control movement on a Guardian when you have no soft-cc to speak of. Have you ever played Guardian?

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

Symbols are definitely a significant part of the guardian’s repertoire. Of the 6 mainhand/two handed weapons we have, 4 have a symbol and 1 more has (arguably) a skill that really should be a symbol. The bow, which will be introduced with HoT, will also have a symbol.

And from a broader point of view, nearly everything guardian currently has is focused around area denial in some form. Consecrations, wards, and symbols all make for excellent area denial, but the problem is and has always been that we have very little at our disposal to KEEP enemies in place to take our damage. Area denial isn’t very effective outside of conquest PvP where there isn’t a particular area to defend.

So.. just WvW where guardians shine in a variety of other ways? There are 2 game modes where symbols rank from amazing to situationally powerful, and one game mode hyper dominated by massive mobility where guardians are not the only ones suffering for area control abilities are STILL have plenty of mobility associated with their skills. Like. Of the things to whine about for guardians I’d think Spirit Weapons and Shield would get far more attention than an actually good trait for symbols.

Spirit weapons and shield do get negative attention, as they deserve to. But that doesn’t mean that we should neglect other issues the class faces. Symbols work in conquest because the objective is about as one-dimensional as it gets: stand on a point longer than your enemy can. Symbols work in PvE because the mob AI isn’t smart enough to realize that they’re taking AoE damage. Neither one of those constitute as valid excuses for us not having the proper tools to utilize our abilities to their full potential.

I challenge you to make a symbol build and test it out in Stronghold this weekend. Good luck not getting kited to death.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: brannigan.9831

brannigan.9831

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.

I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.

Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.

Symbols are hard to use? I’ve been PvPing on my guardian for a couple years now, unless they magically changed how damage patches with effects work they’re not all that difficult. You’re hyperbolizing.

Symbols deal damage, provide boons, and you can’t simply look at them in a vacuum and cherry pick to compare against other abilities. It’s a cohesive picture for guardians that can apply a huge amount of AoE pressure and burst potential in an area compared to many other classes especially. Symbols are a tool, and they have minor traits with ONE major trait that’s a flat 10% DPS boost in a trait line that already grants access to other steroid bursting without requiring management of our F1 utilities around it as well. Symbols are fine, in PvE they’re incredibly powerful additional DPS tools and in PvP they can be used for area denial and additional damage while forcing your opponent to fight in them.

Nobody cares about your experience in hotjoin and unrated play. There have literally been 2 or 3 viable guardian builds in spvp against anybody good since the game’s inception. If the people you are figthing stink or you are just better then them yeah you can make some weak builds work. But I look at what works against people as good as me or better as viable and symbol based builds are not in that category sorry.

(edited by brannigan.9831)

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Thiefz.3695

Thiefz.3695

Symbols are a hybrid. They provide some condition, some straight damage, boons, and healing but don’t do anything great. Couple that with celestial and it’s “Ok”. You are right, it’s not great. In sPvP there is no such thing as a bunker anymore. Watching any type of tournament bunkers were elementalists with high might or warrior shout/bow. In order do win in higher levels of play you need to be a beast OR you need to be good team support while doing damage. Symbol builds lack the “edge” but are not trash.

Symbols work in conquest, when traited, because they offer passive defense as well as offense. Even if someone is not in your symbol, you can still use it for boons. The heal on judges intervention when traited only works when in combat. The heal on AH only works well when with a group.

Stronghold plays differently. Running medi guard isn’t going to win you points if you are managing your door breakers to get the gates down. I saw hammer and tome working better for guards and tomes was never in meta.

Finally Symbolic Avenger is fixed

in Guardian

Posted by: Mightymealworm.8409

Mightymealworm.8409

Just gotta say I love the suggestion for 33% chance to cripple. 10% damage mod as gm trait does seem weak, but if 20% breaks pve dps balance cripple should only affect PvP.