FireBrand, The Guardians success and failings

FireBrand, The Guardians success and failings

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Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

As I attempt to evaluate if I will again “main” my Guardian for PoF, I cannot help but question the professions role in support as we prepare to receive a dedicated support, Elite Specialization.

To truly evaluate any spec, we need to look at the competitive game environments: end-game instanced PvE ( Fractals > 50 and Raids), SPvP, and WvW. I will omit any evaluation of open map metas, world completion or living world as these game modes rely more heavily on completing the zone mechanics and bring with them a more come-one, come-all design. Open world and story is simply more forgiving. Your particular spec does influence how you experience the entire game, but it will be felt most severely in Fractals, Raids, SPvP, and WvW; content that accounts for a large portion of daily game play (all game play for some players).

“Guardians are devoted fighters who protect their allies and smite their enemies by drawing from the power of their virtues. True guardians are brilliant tacticians and selfless defenders who know when to sacrifice their own defenses to empower their allies to achieve victory.” — GuildWars2.com

However, when I look at developer comments and commentary about the guardian in both past and present media, I cannot help but feel that the development team looks at the guardian as a hulking turtle, slowly wading through combat and attempting to pick up allies along the way. But this visualization is not perceived during actual game play. The design philosophy is disjointed from the packaged product and the realities of the game environment.

First, we are finally getting a dedicated condition based main hand weapon, with more damaging condition options! Thank you, its 5 years too late; but I’ll gladly take it. Full condi guard was something that should have been included on core guardian in 2012. But the Fire Brand’s offensive options do look encouraging. Honestly, thank you for finally giving us an optimal option instead of a barley viable choice. We may actually be considered for raids now… maybe. But I have never had a complaint about the damage on a guardian, and few people are drawn to the guardian’s class fantasy saying “I really want to do top damage”. Nope, most play it because they want to be supportive or durable where the desire for damage develops as they play the class more often.

Damage aside, the guardian suffers from three design flaws centered on being the “most durable” profession in the game: An over emphasis on defense that negates mobility, an over emphasis on broad defensive support leading to a jack-of-all-trades, and an under emphasis on direct healing based in the 2012 design philosophy.

The most durable profession: “we want players to feel the weight of being a heavy armor class” is a phrase you can hear in multiple places throughout the last 5 years from various ANet staff, to include the most recent Dev stream on 17 Aug. However, this “weight” isn’t usually associated with the highly mobile Warrior or the Revenants Herald. So what Devs really mean is that they want us to feel the weight of being a Guardian? This unfair burden has been one of the class’s most detrimental short comings.

Core Guards have two mobility skills that are locked behind our targets location and we have several poor options for providing group swiftness. Dragon Hunter improved this by giving us Wings of Resolve, undoubtedly the most useful skill in the entire skill line to date. Why? Because Guild Wars 2 employs (or attempts) an action based system where combat revolves around movement. A boss AOE is best mitigated by moving out of it. Guardians’ movement limitation is also why my WvW guard has had Travelers Runes for the last 5 years, any other option was largely foolish. When you cannot keep up with your team mates you’re either left behind or you become a burden. This weekend I was pleasantly surprised by how much swiftness is available in the F2 and F3 tome skill sets for FB, we have perma swiftness on a Guardian FINALY. It is a lot of skill rotation and I’m not sure if the tradeoff is worth it on a support character; on a DPS build however, it’s a very welcome addition. And as a 5 target buff, this will likely be the new movement meta in WvW. Bye bye Travelers! You will still need to run DH if you want your leap out of danger, as FB does not address this large issue. A leap would have been a welcome addition as a Mantra instead of the two utility/support Mantras.

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Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

Defensive support: When Guild Wars 2 launched in 2012, most classes had selections of self-boons; however, few classes could effectively share boons with other players. This was where the “selfless defenders” and “empower their allies” comes from. At one point guard was really the only true support role, and its class fantasy was a fitting option. But things change and evolved, HoT introduced Elite Specializations. The Tempest, Chronomancer, and Herald were all built with the concept of support in mind and we also saw the broadening of Warrior support options. With GW2 in its current state (Spring / Summer 2017) we see Guardian as the 4-5th best choice for support. This position is likely to drop further behind Necromancer, as we see the introduction of Barrier and our complete lack of what should be a very fitting Guardian ability.

Additionally, core guardian was built around a wide range of defensive and offensive boons. It was the only original class that could provide every core boon. This broad selection meant that Guardian specialized in none of them. Meaning that other classes will almost always provide selected boons better than guardian, following the broadening of support in HoT. Which in turn leads to the ability to select another class over the guardian for support in every specific game mode. The only current boon where guardian leads is in group stability, and is normally only associated with skirmishes in WvW. In PoF, FB seems to improve this WvW centric focus by the addition of skills like “Unflinching Charge”, “Stalwart Stand”, and “unbroken Lines” under the F3 tomes. Likewise the “Mantra of liberation” is exceptional for group PvP. They are exactly the type of support skill the Guardian should be focused towards. As for the other two support Mantras, I’m not very optimistic and they seemed to have missed the mark completely.

As for Offensive boons, how effective the guard will be in PoF remains to be seen and much needs to be tested. However, we now have a strong source(s) for quickness and more flexibility with retaliation. As the community combs through viable builds and crunches the numbers, our new support spec may win out in offensive support. The real question is, will it be enough to challenge the Mesmer’s position as top Raid support? Unlikely, as our perma quickness is much more difficult to achieve and requires much more effort due to positioning. While I do agree that attacks for a melee class should be short range, requiring melee range or a frontal cone is just punishing a class in terms of support. It’s not going to allow a place for strong players to shine, it’s going to lead to irrelevance. The frontal cone and reduced range is a penalty unless similar support classes are given the same restrictions for the same type of support.

The 2012 design philosophy: In 2012, ANet also decided to do away with the class trinity commonly associated other games, and was a refreshing change. However, HoT saw a reversal on this topic as Raids clearly needed some delineation in roles. What should have been the clear choice for a tank-like role was never given Taunt. The current tank role is now filled most often by the same Mesmer class, who are apparently not weighed down by their armor nor restricted by having only melee range. Why are our design limitations so prohibitive because we are a “melee” class? Or a heavy armor class? Superior support is continually encouraged on a light armor class, which is also somehow the top tank choice for most raid encounters… What is the point of Heavy armor? All design tradeoffs with no apparent benefits. In PoF I doubt the guardian will take any tank-like roles in upcoming raids, but I would be remise in failing to mention the Taunt we now have access to under virtues. The problem is that it is locked behind the Virtues cooldown; once again this should have been a Mantra.

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Posted by: momophily.3814

momophily.3814

Raids also lead to the need for a superior healing class. What was the ideal choice? Apparently not the dedicated support class from the core game. Instead Ranger was chosen to become the top direct healing class. At the time of writing this and the coming of PoF, Fire Brand has been described as a dedicated support Spec (Excluding the welcome Condi additions); however, our weak healing output on both the core Guardian and the tomes under Fire Brand don’t even come close to competing with the Druid’s output. So we now see an inferior range and an inferior output; instead of what should be direct competition for the Druid, and a second choice for Raids. This weekend may show a change to the healing calculation or changes may be upcoming before release. If not, the Druid isn’t going anywhere and healing Guard will still sit on the shelf as a Raid healer.

“Boon Rip”, “Boon Strip”, and “Boon Corruption” were also not regularly available in the core game. Manipulation of boons was something nearly exclusive to Necro’s. With changes seen in HoT and upcoming in PoF, the removal or manipulation of boons will be Omni-present in group PvP activities. This renders guardian support non-existent. Where other support classes will still be able to provide some support options such as direct heals off Druid, Barrier from Necro, or Alacrity from Chrono; Guardian will provide no benefit while operating in the 2017 world of boon-negation aside from again being a poorer choice over Druid. Guardian will also fall heavily behind classes that have innate movement buffs from traits or signets. This is a balance issue in WvW and will see guardians trail in zergs who are engaged in combat.

Looking at Guardian in PoF, I cannot wait to play a full-fledged Burn Guard and now have the option to add bleeds and play an optimal Condi build. I’m not entirely sure if I will be trading in my Bolt for a new axe or if I may simply keep my sword/ torch for FB with an additional fire mantra. I’m also quite fond of my hammer and I may go for a zeal/ radiance build. Regardless, I think the condi focus was a welcome addition. I do also like the tomes where I see a true potential in them. I also can’t help but feel that support is only going downhill and being further restricted due to the guardian design philosophy built and carried since 2012.

What does Guard need to be successful in PoF? We need a competitive support spec that will give alternatives to top options, not an expansion to the 5th string choice. We also still need our movement deficiencies to be addressed instead of given a Band-Aid. When our support has no focus, we are a poor support choice. Likewise, if our support is too small to be effective, then we support no one but ourselves.

An additional suggestion is Guardian boons being streamlined, the Jack-of-all-support hasn’t cut it since HoT changed the support availability in game. What Guardian should be focused on is Aegis, Protection and Barrier; then either condi-clear and stability (PvP centric) OR direct heals and regen that come closer to the Druid’s output (PvE centric). Give us the tools to choose instead of being forced to take all, at the detriment of being watered down. The F2 and F3 Tomes go a long way towards this, but I doubt that will be enough.

Power creep: I don’t think the Support Fire Brand/Support Guardian should be more powerful than the support Mesmer or Druid; however, the idea of Balance is to not have a single top choice but rather several possible options for any given role. It is my hope that FB will give the Guardian a place in top Raid slots and begin to be relevant in SPvP and WvW.

Now, I’ve tried to be constructive in my complaints and illustrate why I have reached these conclusions. You will also not find me active on any other forum sections because I don’t care if other classes succeed or fail. I main Guardian, and I have played it in every available form of game content since 2012. I complain because I want the class to be successful. I complain because I want my class to be relevant to current metas. Going into PoF, it is currently in the list for most neglected and/or irrelevant.

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Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

An excellent post. Sums up the guardian conundrum perfectly.

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Posted by: cletiscake.9173

cletiscake.9173

Great post OP. I never looked at it this way. It’s so true, Guardian as a class is based around design trade-offs for “class fantasy” yet all the things it should be doing (i.e Tanking/Healing/Supporting etc) has been given to other classes that would normally have no place doing those things (i.e. Ranger, Mesmer).

Firebrand looks good and is a step in the right direction, but it’s way too clunky. It’s trying to juggle too many mechanics all at once and it’s hard to play it effectively or intuitively.

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Posted by: Phat Stackage.5329

Phat Stackage.5329

Well said OP.

-Guardian main

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

I can not agree with this post even if I tried. Guardian is a class that actually gives up stuff unlike everyone else, and it is also a class stuck in 2012 unlike every other class.

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Posted by: Mastamaker.2957

Mastamaker.2957

I can not agree with this post even if I tried. Guardian is a class that actually gives up stuff unlike everyone else, and it is also a class stuck in 2012 unlike every other class.

Have you never seen a mesmer before or….?

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Posted by: Azoqu.8917

Azoqu.8917

I can not agree with this post even if I tried. Guardian is a class that actually gives up stuff unlike everyone else, and it is also a class stuck in 2012 unlike every other class.

Have you never seen a mesmer before or….?

Man I wish I could just give up damage in order to buff, heal, invuln, tank, and CC. Sadly I need to give up damage, CC, and invulns (don’t have those) in order to buff and heal, and tanking is right out because the only sustained block on Guardian is DH F3 yet if you’re a support you don’t go DH. Any Mesmer that complains about having no damage is completely crazy. I’d give up all my damage to even have half of what Mesmer can do.

And to tackle the statement of “Well with FB you can do that”, sure if I’m willing to try aiming with terrible skills that will probably miss as well as taking forever to do anything, and even then not being anywhere near close to viable because Druid and Mesmer are flat out better than Guardian at either of those rolls that you’d try to do.

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Posted by: Scipion.7548

Scipion.7548

Great post.

I create a guardian as my first and only character to be a durable support. I thought it would be the “healer” of the game, not the ranger with it’s hunter beastmaster archetype. I want the Firebrand to be a true healer that can compete the Druid.

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Posted by: Arctic.7691

Arctic.7691

As a Guard main I’m disappointed by this spec. I was rly hyped when they announced it but after I tried it felt just another wrong and mediocre guardian decision over the years. We are guardians a heavy armor support class that should provide boons and healing and what we have is a most likely selfish defense class that is outclassed by others in terms of support or even dps. They removed the tome ( especially the healing one) wich could be our heal mechanic and gave it to druid making us useless and chrono makes us useless even more. The highly shouted out revamp of tomes is just a sad cd fest for not even so strong abilities for real the healing tome is just a joke. Mantras will never be used as Team support due to their design, in raids I can’t see trying to aim mantras while your group moves due the mechanics. The philosophy of “no trinity you will be able to do everything with every class” it went to trash and instead of giving the game a real competitori for heals (Druid) or boon application/tanking (Chrono) they just added a really mediocre spec that most likely is already out of the game if will be shipped the way it is and we’ll remain with the holy trinity Druid Chrono Warrior for raids. It’s rly sad I can’t play my main coz of bad design decisions just give him a boost make him a real competitor of druid or chrono otherwise this spec is just there coz you had to ship something for guard. I’m really disappointed as a guardian main…..and for rame add back the floating tome in front of us when we are in time mode, its just ridiculous how bad we look stranding there with no weapons swining arms around or don’t hide weapons….I mean what’s the point of the legendaries I made if I can’t see them half of the time xD It’s really sad to say but FB have potential but right now is one of the worst spec in game

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Posted by: Validus.5692

Validus.5692

Very well said OP. I just recently came back to the game (I played briefly at launch) and was extremely disappointed with my Guard main still not having either a tanky build or supportive build. Those are the two reasons I chose Guardian, and was hopeful that Firebrand might give us those, and while it seems to be the idea behind it, the mantra mechanics and cone based frontal aoes just ruin the whole spec. I’m still holding out hope that Anet will realize this and “fix” the profession soon to make us a viable option to Chrono tanks and Healing Druids, but if after 5 years that hasn’t happened, I’m not sure how realistic it is to expect it to happen in the next couple months

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Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

They will eventually buff firebrand to do good condition dps, and you won’t be able to have any conversation about the shortcomings of the spec because “it does good damage, man”. Nevermind how this was supposed to be our support spec and it complete fails at that.

If you are a guardian player that wanted to play support, your only option is to quit at this point. There won’t be another “support” spec and firebrand is not it, either. Even warrior PS with healing shouts feels more supportive.

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Posted by: Arcaedus.7290

Arcaedus.7290

This is an excellent post. You have a nice general outline, you cite evidence of intentions for the class from developer statements and even GW2 streams.

I hope the developers read this and decide to put their best feet forward at making a positive change for guardian. One thing I want to reiterate from OP is the fact that many aspects of guardian make it feel like its stuck in 2012 GW2 balance. In today’s balance, passive healing/regen from Virtue of Resolve and aegis from Virtue of Courage are not at all very powerful and merely a blip on the radar. They absolutely do NOT justify the guardian having low mobility, low healing support potential and being placed in the lowest health class.

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Posted by: Fashion Mage.3712

Fashion Mage.3712

They will eventually buff firebrand to do good condition dps, and you won’t be able to have any conversation about the shortcomings of the spec because “it does good damage, man”. Nevermind how this was supposed to be our support spec and it complete fails at that.

If you are a guardian player that wanted to play support, your only option is to quit at this point. There won’t be another “support” spec and firebrand is not it, either. Even warrior PS with healing shouts feels more supportive.

The fact that ANet actually prioritized condition cancer over support on guardians and tomes makes me sick.

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Posted by: Delgotta.3817

Delgotta.3817

When I tried out the Firebrand, i found that the tomes replacing my weapon was the biggest turn off. (besides the cone issue). I would rather tomes replace my utility bar or virtue bar instead.

Using tomes ruins an iconic ability of the Guardian, Symbols. It also prevents any combos or ability chains you can do.

As it stands, in Knights-Clerics gear, using mace-shield, i can provide better support via pure of heart aegis blocks and mace symbol than any mantra or tome. ill be sticking with Core guard. I refuse to give up my weapon, as any self respecting guardian would.

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Posted by: Selendile.9106

Selendile.9106

I mean….this is a minor point but….

Why don’t we have the big floating book in front of us when we have a tome active, like back when tome was our elite? Geez, it looks so stupid standing in combat weaponless.

Also, yes, as it stands I have no intention of using any mantras. They are terrible. And tomes have such high cooldown, that you’re pretty much forced to take virtues and RF if you want even a CHANCE at being decent support.

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Posted by: Mercurias.1826

Mercurias.1826

As a former Guardian main, I agree with a whole, whole lot of the OP’s assessment. I believe the differences stem from separate viewpoints. I’ve always seen the Guardian as the Last Man Standing rather than pure support, with its passive buffs being an advantage alongside its sturdiness rather than the class’s focus as the aptly described “lumbering turtle”. I rather liked the novelty of being able to pick up a Bow in HoT and engage from long range and keep a Greatsword in my back pocket as a catch-all melee weapon that can draw enemies into placed traps, particularly with Guardian durability maintained. I’m excited for Firebrand due to the condition damage and ability to give myself quickness. Support in GW2 has always seemed primarily to translate to “how much faster can we make everything fall down?” and giving a healthy amount of AoE condition damage on top of the new buffs the class was lacking allows it to focus on a melee-oriented damage dealer who can sub heals after the Druid has shot its CA bullet.

I suspect I would agree more were I a more hardcore player, but I’m just not. I’m fine with being a jack of all trades, and I see Raid mechanics as obnoxious that keep my potato internet connection from letting me keep up.

So OP is right. Guards aren’t the best support. I just like what they DO have and still enjoy playing them.