Firebrand is B A D(PvP only)

Firebrand is B A D(PvP only)

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Posted by: NotoriousNaru.1705

NotoriousNaru.1705

Firebrand is bad.
Firebrand has no mobility.
Firebrand is slow. For the amount of time it takes getting in to your tomes, and the amount of time it takes casting all these ridiculously long super visual cast skills, you are not rewarded for it.
Mantras are slow and none are rewarding. Boy am I glad my mantras are the same range and radius as a sword auto, amazing.
F1 tome is the only okay tome, because it has burning but any rational human being that has any form of experience with gw2 will simply walk out the fire fields.
F2 tome is garbage, you can spec healing power and still not be able to out heal anything that is dpsing you EVEN THOUGH you are in a kit specifically designed to heal you. Lets not forget the long cast times.
F3 tome is also bad, like the fact that a dragonhunter f3 that gives me a 3s block is better overall than all 5 skills of f3 tome combined is just sad. You are not rewarded for entering this kit and using your defensive skills. You still die. Lets not forget the long cast times.
Indomitable courage(stab on f3) is bugged and doesnt work.
Renewed focus is bugged and only resets f1 tome.
Mantra trait does NOT reduce mantra cooldowns.
The 33% cooldown reduction doesn’t affect your tomes just the skills inside it. This is probably not a bug but is very disappointing considering your tomes are kits with ridiculously long cooldowns. But thats okay, they’re useless anyways because you spend so much time casting skills that look like they do alot(great visuals though anet xd) but really don’t do anything at all. Your axe and mantras are all close range which would make one assume the spec should be tanky enough to be on the frontlines, but it is not. Firebrand is very squishy. You are forced to run toughness AND vitality right now, but since every amulet that gives toughness AND vit, does NOT give condi dmg, you are pretty much useless.
All in all firebrand sucks.
I love how burn guardian has always been this niche thing that has never been meta because guardian simply lacks the cover condis, what is the point of stacking 10-20 burns when they will be the first to go. But anet went ahead and made an entire elite spec off a niche concept. Maybe if they buff the f2/f3 support tomes it’ll have a role has a healer/bunker.
I was more effective playing scourge for 5mins than a class I have mained for forever.

For anyone saying it is good blah blah, I know firebrand is good in wvw and pve(prob cuz quickness stacking) This post is PVP only.

(edited by NotoriousNaru.1705)

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Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

But, naru, I stacked so much burning on the stationary golem, how can you say firebrand is bad?

For anyone saying it is good blah blah, I know firebrand is good in wvw and pve(prob cuz quickness stacking) This post is PVP only.

Don’t worry, it’s plenty useless in pve, too. At least the support part, it can probably play as condi dps.

In wvw, it seems like an upgrade over core stability bot guard, at least until the boonstrip meta renders it absolete.

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Posted by: Aza.2105

Aza.2105

Yea I’ve been testing it in pvp and its…..pretty bad. Its only semi playable as a healer build. The elite spec is every where, it does everything but at the same time good at nothing. There are too many restrictions, long cooldowns on tomes, then cooldowns within the tomes (skills) then long cast times and then finally page count. Something has to go. I’m not sure what. I think maybe they should get rid of the tome cooldowns so that you can weave through them. But make the pages shared through all of them and give pages a regeneration rate. Similar to thief initiative.

Then there are mantras. The heal is super weak. Even with healing power it only heals for 1.4k and 3.4k for the final charge. That just isn’t worth it, especially with all of the damage being thrown around. The best mantra is the one that removes conditions but it still feels sort of meh.

Hopefully Anet listens to feedback, they did with Dragonhunter. So hopefully we see some positive changes before the game goes live.

Just my opinion though! And yea, the animations look great.

Amd Ryzen 1800x – Amd Fury X -64GB of ram
Windows 10

(edited by Aza.2105)

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Posted by: Kainex.4029

Kainex.4029

+1 for everything in this post. Was so excited for Firebrand to get tomes as their virtues, but the fact out of 15 new tome skills not one of them is mobility…(a few swift on some f2 skills) and the fact f2 and f3 tomes are a downgrade as you’re required to cast them, and then most the skills you get are very situational, you’re prompted to spam 1 and just leave them some times… eurghh. I’m not even mad, just sad.

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Posted by: Saiyan.1704

Saiyan.1704

Just fought Crysis, Thermite, & Jeff in AT, regardless if they were using kitten builds I do like the fact I wiped half their team with just F1 alone but I haven’t played the elite spec long enough (got out of work late) to get an overall feel for it yet. So i’ll keep the rest of my opinions to myself for now.

Hands down, F1 is what makes Firebrand.
If F1: #1 gets a nerf then the elite spec (guardian) will simply cease to exist in PvP. We’re basically the prepatch, Necro version of Boon Corrupt burst effect now. In 3 seconds we can do 12 stacks of burns if people don’t control us.

AXE needs serious work… the sluggish weapon doesn’t beat Scepter or Sword in any category. Only thing the 1-hander is good for is, Axe#2 + Judge’s for a niche ranged-stun prior to a burst. I feel the range on each skill needs to be 400 to 600 radius for me to think about using it.

I’m really liking how the new Firebrand elite spec plays in terms of mechanics. It reminds me of Engi in a way, using that 1 or two situational 1/4 cast time Function skills in a given fight, then swapping out of it quickly. Mantra heal for a faster cast, Elite for a guarantee cast of Function skills so you don’t get interrupted. But the 3/4 cd on these skills needs to be reduced by 1/4… at the very least. (pvp)

aka FalseLights
Rank: Top 250 since Season 2
#5 best gerdien in wurld

(edited by Saiyan.1704)

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Posted by: NotoriousNaru.1705

NotoriousNaru.1705

The F1 tome is okay. I say okay because even though it is so much better than everything else in the firebrand spec, it is nothing but a kit that applies burning, and has 1 cc. Most classes kill us so easily and we dont even have enough time to go through our defensive tomes because they both have long cooldowns, long cast times, not enough impact, and not enough mobility for the amount of time we spend on them. Also, when we are in these kits we do like no damage, so one would assume if you were in a defensive or heal kit you would be able to out sustain the damage on you but you can’t.

Scourge destroys us 1v1 and its a teamfight spec.
Spellbreaker destroys us just off the sheer speed of their auto attacks and the amount of dazes and ccs they have, a warrior autoing you WHILE you are casting your heal or defensive tomes will still kill you.
Weaver is a bruiser that slowly kills us 1v1 and has more impact in 2v2s and teamfights.
Holosmith has so much burst it is IMPOSSIBLE to outheal it, it is worse than the spellbreaker vs FB matchup. This is while running paladins because holosmith stacks 25might in like 2 seconds.
Both mirage and deadeye, even though they are some of the weaker specs this beta will still just range kill us because we no longer have any good access to range weapons, no mobility skills, no tracking skills, and no dmg upkeep. I dueled a deadeye and literally just got rifle’d down to death because my f2/f3 dont do anything.

I don’t have enough info on how renegade is against a firebrand. I didn’t gather any of this info from ranked qs or random hotjoins. All of this is vs decent players during inhouses that we were doing all day. Everything has a ROLE except FB.

Like someone said earlier in this post, it looks like it can do everything(i thought a decent hybrid build could work), but is good at nothing. It is TOO CLUNKY, and TOO SLOW.
I tried the hybrid route, still die to everything, cant sustain, or do dmg.
I tried the full condi route, vs good players doesnt do anything because no cover condis, burns alone dont do it in top tier play.
I tried a full healer route, and the mantras ARE LITERALLY SWORD AUTO RANGE/RADUIS IT SUCKSSSS. You dont have any access to good on demand heals, and when you’re tryign to cycle through your tomes to help allies you end up being the one dying because even with healing power you dont do much.

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

But but how, everyone was hyped for it, “dont judge until you played id”, " the tooltips cant be that bad be positive", “why are you so negative” they said. Well boys and girls now you know pls dont cry so much I am getting dced so often cause your tears are making me lag aswell. :p

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Posted by: NotoriousNaru.1705

NotoriousNaru.1705

I reserved my judgement until I played it. But now I can just say. Firebrand is truly and utterly trash, clunky, slow and buggy.

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Posted by: jul.7602

jul.7602

Firebrand is not bad in Pvp. There is one build that is pretty broken.

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Posted by: Syktek.7912

Syktek.7912

Dragonhunter is a better condi spec than Firebrand is. Let that sink in.

Vesper Dawnshield | Guardian

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Posted by: Arnath.2319

Arnath.2319

I’m fine with it being bad in PvP if it’s strong in PvE, which it is, so stop complaining before you make it bad in both PvP and PvE.

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Posted by: RabbitUp.8294

RabbitUp.8294

I’m fine with it being bad in PvP if it’s strong in PvE, which it is, so stop complaining before you make it bad in both PvP and PvE.

Oh, really? Where did you test it in pve? Do you have the benchmarks to share?

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Posted by: michelada.2947

michelada.2947

it sucks too in wvw, i passed all the day trying to make it work but no success, by the time you want to heal or cure a condition you already have 10 condis on you and 5 guys kicking your kitten it’s only good on pve or raids, they neeed to change the range or the way the buffs and heals are applied

(edited by michelada.2947)

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Posted by: Brutaly.6257

Brutaly.6257

I’m fine with it being bad in PvP if it’s strong in PvE, which it is, so stop complaining before you make it bad in both PvP and PvE.

Since the damage is lower then a vanilla burn guard i suspect it is the mediocre healing or spamming aegis that you find so incredible.

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

I’m fine with it being bad in PvP if it’s strong in PvE, which it is, so stop complaining before you make it bad in both PvP and PvE.

lol how do you know its great for pve if this is pvp wvw testing…kitten whiteknights..

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Posted by: LucosTheDutch.4819

LucosTheDutch.4819

Wow, if even Naru says it’s bad then you know it’s really bad…

Yeah, I’m not happy with the current state of the firebrand at all. And I’m afraid this isn’t easily fixed either. The firebrand needs some major reworking.

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Posted by: LucosTheDutch.4819

LucosTheDutch.4819

I’m fine with it being bad in PvP if it’s strong in PvE, which it is, so stop complaining before you make it bad in both PvP and PvE.

lol how do you know its great for pve if this is pvp wvw testing…kitten whiteknights..

He’s probably secretly a thief main who wants the firebrand to stay bad so he doesn’t have to worry about guardians farming him anymore. :^)

Or perhaps he often gets owned by burn dragonhunters in PvP and he’s afraid that if firebrand gets fixed he’ll get even more owned by even more burns. :P

I dunno wassup but he sure as hell is trying hard to keep firebrand bad. ^^;

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

Just missing an “All is vain” in the OP

Actually, scratch that. It gets saltier as you go.

Fishsticks

(edited by Ghotistyx.6942)

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Posted by: NotoriousNaru.1705

NotoriousNaru.1705

Just missing an “All is vain” in the OP

Actually, scratch that. It gets saltier as you go.

You must be lost, this isn’t a pve thread for firebrand.

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Posted by: SkipOne.8430

SkipOne.8430

I dont think, that condi is that bad. I can get 20 stacks of fire on the enemy in like 1-2 seconds. I tried to spike with the guard here my results:

https://youtu.be/EyOWZMiu9Mg

(edited by SkipOne.8430)

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

I dont think, that condi is that bad. I can get 20 stacks of fire on the enemy in like 1-2 seconds. I tried to spike with the guard here my results:

https://youtu.be/EyOWZMiu9Mg

Yea, but you die fast when someone even notices you.

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Posted by: SkipOne.8430

SkipOne.8430

of course you are a glascannon and cant escape^^

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Posted by: Manimarco Devil.1790

Manimarco Devil.1790

I cant say I entirely agree with this perspective. I’ve had ok success with firebrand in pvp.

Mantras are gonna be pve only but I can live with that.
Tomes just need cast time removed or lowered.
f2 should scale a bit better with healing power
Mantra trait and Slow trait seem out of place

Wishlist(this stuff may be OP or needs testing):
Axe 1 attack range increase (150-200)
Axe 3 pull is longer (750-900) especially if they are going to keep it as it is currently where you can miss if the change directions mid animation.
Liberator’s Vow becomes current Stalwart Speed
Stalwart speed becomes something like "You move 25% faster while wielding axe (or 1H weaps) and axe 2 gets quickness.
Trait that gives 1 stab when entering a tome.

Battlelord Taeres

(edited by Manimarco Devil.1790)

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Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

I dont think, that condi is that bad. I can get 20 stacks of fire on the enemy in like 1-2 seconds. I tried to spike with the guard here my results:

https://youtu.be/EyOWZMiu9Mg

You can get that much burning with core guard and DH too, except you live longer.

FB’s biggest problem is that you have no “oh-kitten button” or combo besides Renewed Focus that can help you survive a spike and/or disengage.

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

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Posted by: Ghotistyx.6942

Ghotistyx.6942

Just missing an “All is vain” in the OP

Actually, scratch that. It gets saltier as you go.

You must be lost, this isn’t a pve thread for firebrand.

Don’t know what you’re talking about
And “All is vain” was a pvp thread

Fishsticks