Guild Wars 2

In my mind there is a very simple fix to traps. Simply make it so you can throw them 600 range. And change them to symbols, I mean most guardian traits are for symbols so why make a whole new kind of aoe for guardian. At this point I might take lb… maybe if all the rooting etc gets fixed but probably not. But I’m for sure not taking a worthless trap when I could instead use a 16 second cd 2k+ heal/condi cleanse or an aoe boon that heals me when used… If they are changed to symbols at least you could trait for them to give chance at burning/vuln and some healing. Its not amazing but at least it would be something! Just my input on the subject. =P

This idea has already been posted dozens of times. This post does not deserve its own thread.

Likewise, no traps deserve to be thrown at any range.

Making traps ranged won’t fix them.

Adding additional effects like combo fields, conditions (damaging, debilitating & movement hindering), condition cleanses & boon support effects onto them will fix them.

Honestly, traps don’t need condition cleanses, sun breaks, or other things like that either. Traps are traps, not symbols or wells. They shouldn’t be spreading protection and regen. Fragments of Faith gets an exception because of how aegis synergizes with Guardians as a whole (especially shattered aegis, amplified wrath, pure of heart, and hunter’s fortification.)

Some traps could definitely stand for some more utility though, I won’t deny. Purification is the one trap where condition cleanses could be a good fit. Currently Fragments of Faith serves that purpose when combined with Hunters Fortification, but there’s no reason purification can’t purify. Procession of Blades probably really should have a whirl finisher, or stack bleeding natively. Traited Test of Faith compares very well to Purging Flames, and Lights Judgement is just plain useful all around.

I have to agree with the OP except the range should be 1200 like the Necro’s Staff skills.

1) Symbols have additional effects due to other non dragon Hunter trait lines giving players valuable secondary trait options.

2) Symbols are currently only weapon based skills thus it retains the Guardian feel to them. Thus it opens up the Symbols as slot skills.

3) Symbols … all of them create a combo light fields giving additional versatility.

Traps are not ‘fixed’ by making them into not-traps.

Fixing a bad design by keeping the bad design is not a fix. Yes Changing the skill functionality from trap to symbol does FIX the issue.

Traps are not bad by design. People have suggested ideas that maintain the concept and if you want any ideas you have to be taken seriously by the devs that are constrained by their own concepts, you should as well.

Traps are bad by design. These Guardian “trap” skills are for a RANGED class. It makes no sense to give them non Ranged skills for a Ranged specialty that focuses on the Long bow. Also Symbols as already designed are for a Guardian only build. This makes them unique to the Guardian. I might as well scrap the bow and just go two handed hammer, but if I wanted to do that, I would not make a dragon hunter would I? no of course not. Hammer has melee AoE and does not need the trap skills to function well.

Traps are not necessarily for ranged or non ranged class; they work in either case. At this point, DH delivers more ranged capability to the Guardian profession via LBow and Scepter will always be a ranged alternative, so to claim they don’t ‘fit’ the elite spec because of a “profession is ranged or non-ranged” bias doesn’t hold any water. DH MAKES the Guardian a profession an even more capable ranged class without restricting it from being melee if it wants as well.

Furthermore, if part of your point is that symbols are unique to Guardian so it makes sense to propose they remove traps to do symbols, or make traps more like symbols, then you don’t even understand the concept to what an elite spec is supposed to be for a profession in the first place.

Traps aren’t going away or turning into symbols less than one month to release date. That makes no sense.

One thing I don’t understand is why someone would want people to be placing ~8 symbols per guardian around a battlefield. ~8k damage per tick, ~1k healing when traited, 8 vuln per tick, 8/3 chance to cause burn per tick, and 8 different boons or other effects. It would be impossible to not ever stand in at least one symbol, likely multiple, and any kind of lockdown would be terribly devastating. PvE metas would just be 5 guardians with about 6 symbols a piece with permanent might, fury, quickness, vuln, and something stupid for burn stacks (not to mention the boons from the symbols themselves). Why would that ever seem like a good idea?

it is not 8 symbols per guardian the most would be 6 1 from weapon, 1 from heal, 3 skills, 1 elite.
it is not 8 k damage per tick

How is this any less dangerous than a group of Staff / Marks wielding “Well” life stealing necro’s?

Let say we no longer call it traps, but call it “mark” or “well”, since they are basically AOE effects, abeit with (a trigger just like marks) , would we be more incline to accept more drastic changes? Looking at these discussion, looks like people are hung up on the namesake “trap” and thus resisting changes that they deemed so not trap-like and I think that mindset is regrettable.
Traps generally do not have smooth interaction with a ranged class and we all know why. Just that unfortunately the trait for it lies in DH, which one would pick if he/she goes for longbow, otherwise there are better trait lines for the melee option. Traps are not a new concept, ranger and thief has it, but when was the last time you saw them being used? Only marks, i,e. ranged traps, get to have use because they are ranged. If Karl are gonna try to sell us his “traps”, then traps need some rework. Also, ask yourself this: if you, the guardians themselves, have trouble accepting traps, how do you expect a group to accept a bow/trap guardian in their group where they probably expect something we probably can be better at (like what the base spec currently offer). If they need range and AOE, i could name another class that can do better than DH in both. “But we have buffs and shouts” you might say, then remember the range nerf for group buff down to 600, and with DH line we do best when position ourselves more than 600 range unit. Get ready for some serious jog, cuz we are going to do that alot, pingpong-ing back and forth between frontline and backline. DH and its trait line is the very definition of the term oxymoron itself. Some sort of rework would be appreciated.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Honestly, traps don’t need condition cleanses, sun breaks, or other things like that either. Traps are traps, not symbols or wells. They shouldn’t be spreading protection and regen. Fragments of Faith gets an exception because of how aegis synergizes with Guardians as a whole (especially shattered aegis, amplified wrath, pure of heart, and hunter’s fortification.)

Some traps could definitely stand for some more utility though, I won’t deny. Purification is the one trap where condition cleanses could be a good fit. Currently Fragments of Faith serves that purpose when combined with Hunters Fortification, but there’s no reason purification can’t purify. Procession of Blades probably really should have a whirl finisher, or stack bleeding natively. Traited Test of Faith compares very well to Purging Flames, and Lights Judgement is just plain useful all around.

I never stated that they should give out a bunch of boons and cleanse conditions. The only mentioned change was let them get bonuses from symbol traits (and have some range). The different traits that affect symbols give minor heal per tick (+2 sec duration), vuln per tick, chance at burn and increase symbol damage by 10%. That is not cleanse, stun break, protection, regen etc etc.

In their current form they offer some gimicks, the best being aegis, the others being adding minor conditions/damage or temporarily halting the enemy. For what they give they are close to worthless. At least with the above trait bonuses they can apply vuln/burn and a decent group heal if stacked on each other. (If thinking that’s op, don’t forget they have 45 second cooldowns.) Plus in order to take one of these traps you have to give up a skill that gives boons, 2k heal, condi to boon convert, reflect etc etc. Even with these changes they still wont be taken all that much.

-Also as a side note I personally don’t care if they can be used at range or not, but I did notice quite a few people complaining about it so I figured I’d add it. The only thing I think should change is the ability to stack with symbol traits.

I agree, so leave the skills are they are, give them range, let them stack with symbol trait’s by calling them symbols. Problem solved.

And yet, with that functionality, they still aren’t traps. Traps have certain functions that have been defined (and recently clarified) by Anet. There’s no pressing need to have traps be at range, mesh with symbol traits, or anything of the sort. At that point we might as well ask for engineer kits and call them phantasms.

Tungsten Monarch.6058:

it is not 8 symbols per guardian the most would be 6 1 from weapon, 1 from heal, 3 skills, 1 elite.
it is not 8 k damage per tick

How is this any less dangerous than a group of Staff / Marks wielding “Well” life stealing necro’s?

It’s actually 2 weapons, heal, 3 utilities, elite, and at least 1 trait proccing regularly. In pvp or wvw, you’d definitely be proccing at least one of those trait symbols. In PvE, you wouldn’t necessarily be proccing the traits, nor would you take the elite symbol (unless it gave quickness, otherwise FmW would be the best choice for your party of 5). Using the extremely conservative assumption that each symbol would tick about 1k per (which is like, 1800 power levels of damage), to could have 6k dps by hardly doing anything. If you’re actually in a dungeoning group, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect 3-4k per tick, or more. That’s 18-24k+ dps for no effort. Numbers similar to these would be available in pvp and wvw, which is absolutely no bueno.

Ghotistyx.6942:

And yet, with that functionality, they still aren’t traps. Traps have certain functions that have been defined (and recently clarified) by Anet. There’s no pressing need to have traps be at range, mesh with symbol traits, or anything of the sort. At that point we might as well ask for engineer kits and call them phantasms.

Tungsten Monarch.6058:

it is not 8 symbols per guardian the most would be 6 1 from weapon, 1 from heal, 3 skills, 1 elite.
it is not 8 k damage per tick

How is this any less dangerous than a group of Staff / Marks wielding “Well” life stealing necro’s?

It’s actually 2 weapons, heal, 3 utilities, elite, and at least 1 trait proccing regularly. In pvp or wvw, you’d definitely be proccing at least one of those trait symbols. In PvE, you wouldn’t necessarily be proccing the traits, nor would you take the elite symbol (unless it gave quickness, otherwise FmW would be the best choice for your party of 5). Using the extremely conservative assumption that each symbol would tick about 1k per (which is like, 1800 power levels of damage), to could have 6k dps by hardly doing anything. If you’re actually in a dungeoning group, it wouldn’t be unreasonable to expect 3-4k per tick, or more. That’s 18-24k+ dps for no effort. Numbers similar to these would be available in pvp and wvw, which is absolutely no bueno.

I agree you could have some decent spike potential if you put down every symbol you had at the same time. But don’t forget they have 45 second cds. Its really not that much different then a necro throwing down all their wells at the same time (considering wells give condi convert/protection/personal heals). It has a good spike but then you got nothing till recharged. Plus in pvp/wvw you just move out of the aoe, just like you do with wells and arrow carts…. If you aren’t smart enough to move and let the entire duration hit you, you kind of deserve to get wrecked…

The traps don’t all have kitten cooldowns (the wiki is outdated). There’s no reason to expect the symbols would either.

if you make traps thrown or ground targeted, shot from the bow however you want to spin it they’re mechanically the same as mines work now.

yes they need improvement, but turning them into a mechanic thats already in the game would be stupid and lazy. I’d rather they stay as they are dropped at your feet, they just need a better payoff for the setup involved.

Maybe a trait that make them react like symbols? That’s add more synergy with others talents tree too and make traps better.