Guild Wars 2

Hello Everyone. I’m leveling my Guardian right now and i want to ask a question. IS Full Support Spec( Boon “Buffer”, Heal, abit “Tankish”) Guardian viable for Dungeons?? I really like the way guardian works with boon etc but i am not sure if it will work well. Also if it is, whats your opinion about Weapons etc?

Hello young Guardian,

in my humble opinion, going full “Support”, “Tank” or whatever you call it is a bad idea. Remember, that your main goal in Dungeons is to kill stuff, and you are not really contributing to that goal, if you stand there “supporting”. The way I see it, every player has two main roles while being in a Dungeon-group: Damage and stying alive (‘cause dead people are no use to everybody). Now some people are better at staying alive than others (through dodging, experience, etc). That means they need to devote less gear to defense, and can devote more to damage. Supporting your Group with your unique Guardian-stuff is your third concern at best (wich doesn’t mean its unimportant). Also, you don’t need a specific spec to support your party. You got a lot of stuff in your arsenal that supports your group without spending a single trait point (to be honest, it’s hard to do anything as a guardian, without throwing at least one buff around in the process). If you want to further buff up your support, the Honor traitline offers some nice traits for that (for example 20% cooldownreduction for shouts, or buffing all allies with Might on a critical hit).

tl;dr:
Find your balance of damage and survivability and choose your support skills/traits based on the situation, rather than beeing a guy in plate armor who just stands back and buffs people.

That’s my opinion anyway…

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

What everyone above me said.

Remember that there’s no proper “threat” in the game, and monsters will follow someone based on some random idea we don’t know specifically.
For example, a monster might go for the weakest armor in the group, or the highest damager, or by profession order, etc…
When this happens, even if you’re a walking fortress, you’re going to be useless.

For times like these you need control to give your pursued teammate a breath, and this you can get with the Greatsword, Hammer, Staff, Shield and Scepter to a less extent.
You also need to deal the highest damage you can, since the faster the monster dies, the less danger of getting killed your group has.

For fights were there’s too many stuns going on, your Shouts won’t save everyone if they don’t properly dodge. It can be helpful as a reactive skill, but it doesn’t matter if someone has 5 or 10 seconds of Stability if they can’t dodge falling rocks. They’ll die.

As for heals, Guardians can output a decent amount of healing using Staves, but other than this everything else is like regen, a small amount of healing periodically ticking.
This is useful when there’s AoE your group can’t dodge, and every bit helps. But if they can’t dodge properly, they’re fated to die, and no healing you can output will help.

So if you sacrifice all your attack status just to get health, healing and defense, you’d be pretty much useless in a decent skilled group.

Ideally you should strive for getting the maximum damage output while still maintaining yourself alive, and providing a basic support via Utilities/Traits that won’t cost you anything (like Empowering Might, casting Empower for heal and damage burst, Symbols in general, etc).

- So, avoid Swords in the first place.
- Keep a Scepter with you if a battle’s so hard without a ranged weapon.
- Use mostly a Staff as your secondary weapon and remember to use it, not only for healing, but for damage as well.
- For situation control, choose Greatsword or Hammer.
- For maximum tankiness if you need to, Mace and Shield. You can also use these as secondary for heavy ranged battles for the healing and blocks.
- Avoid signets, prefer Consecrations, Shouts and Spirit Weapons (if there’s not much AoE) for group support.

And done, you can deal damage, stay alive and still provide your group plenty of support via weapons and utilities!

Also agree tanking/healing not needed in Dungeons, just rambled on about this in a nearby thread, recommend you focus on maximizing damage + damage avoidance through dodging/consecrations/shields

I’m running 0/0/30/30/10 with a soldiers coat, knights leggings/helmet, berserker trinkets, gloves, shoulders, boots, GS/Staff. 2 Water, 2 Monks and 2 ruby orbs (haven’t figured out if they’re worth switching yet), boon duration food. It’s a balanced shout build with enough hp to survive bursts, enough armor to sustain any long fights.
Not really calling that a “support” but it does help out the team in various ways! It lets you “tank” well, do good dps and all your boons are up for so long.
In a minute you can provide your team with a lot of might stacks (love the new buffed staff). You have your natural virtues (1.7k(?) heal, aegis, shouts), regen which is another few thousand hp, dodges for more team heals (perma vigor), 18s team protection (and more if you use tome of courage) every minute, stability, staff heals~. Now add in 15s of each boon for yourself every 48 seconds to that, and a random boon every time you shout to convert a condition for the team (5.8~ shouts/minute).
For sigils I use sigil of battle just because of the boon duration I already have at 60% (+20 food, +10 traits, +30 runes), providing mostly 9, sometimes 6 stacks of might in prolonged fights which beats sigil of force damage-wise while adding very slightly to your altruistic healing.
Also, if you need consecrations you can just switch your adept trait anytime.

Honestly, I can’t play other builds atm on my guardian and I don’t even think about playing my warrior who can hardly survive in harder dungeons, while I can carry less useful players on my back with the guardian.

So, to respond to your question more clearly. You don’t have to sacrifice a lot to get the best of all worlds with a build like this. There’s no reason to increase dps by 20% to lose all your healing and your team boons, there’s no reason to improve your tankiness and lose dps when you already survive burst and sustain like a beast. A balanced build just wins!

Full clerics gear with boon duration runes +beserker accessories with ruby jewels. Shout based boon build.

Staff as primary. Mace /shield secondary. AH based for survivability.

This set up not only provides unequaled defencive support but is also able to maintain 18-20 stacks of might for the entire party indefinitely.

I don’t think there is a weakness to this build so far. It works with 0/0/30/30/10. The lack of speed is compensated by your party doing higher dmg. You also can heal for 1.9k with empower every 16seconds aswell as dodge heal for just over 800hp. Popping virtues and shouts and then renewed focus top pop resolve again will give your over 30seconds of regen as well as a lot of other boons.

This build is attack via support as a reverse to other builds support via attack. Once your skills on CD you can go to town with the mace or aoeing for more might with staff 1(EM+superior sigil of strength)

I don’t think it can get any more solid then this. Ive taken a party through fractals 10 withno one having AR and it was still easy enough.

I run
0/0/20/30/20 setup with cleric armor and soldier accessories. (might change them further to cleric, or knight for more DPS)
boon duration runes. (2*monk, 2*water, 2*major water)

I use the following weapons:
gs, staff, mace/shield, scepter/focus. hammer
I change them per encounter. for dungeons that can be facetanked i use mace/shield.
for fractals I use more GS, if there are many glass cannons and i am only guardian i use staff.
scepter focus stays always as my alternative range setup.
the only set i don’t use is sword/torch.

valor 10 is always retributive armor, valor 20 i switch between honorable shield and defenders flame. (hammer enthusiasts can use glacial heart)

honor 10 is always superior aura, honor 30 is always pure of voice, honor 20 I switch between two handed mastery(for gs and staff), and writ of the merciful (for mace)

virtues 20 is always absolute resolution, virtues 10 i switch between master of consecrations for WOR, improved spirit weapon duration for shield of the avenger, vengeful when have to fight lost of adds, and unscratched contender for ranged fights.

I use either three shouts (hold the line, stand your ground, retreat) or two shouts and WOR or two shouts and shield of the avenger.
this is the best tanking/healing build for me.

it will not have the best DPS in game, tried once to kill the COF1 door , better to send a thief/warrior for this job, but enough to do any open world content and even solo some world champions.

edit:
retributive armor is for vigor, because of boon duration i have almost 100% vigor uptime. heal ~1500 on dodge roll
use either boon duration food or stamina regen food (the one with might on roll, can walk with perma 3 stacks of might just from dodging).

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Hello Everyone. I’m leveling my Guardian right now and i want to ask a question. IS Full Support Spec( Boon “Buffer”, Heal, abit “Tankish”) Guardian viable for Dungeons?? I really like the way guardian works with boon etc but i am not sure if it will work well. Also if it is, whats your opinion about Weapons etc?

Full support works, but it depends on your traits and gear.

You can do the standard altruistic build (0 0 30 30 10) and add cleric’s armor on top. (Pure of voice over empowering might for condition removal since you won’t crit much)

The traits themselves will give you a decent hp boost even though your gear will not.

You can either go soldier’s runes for shout skills remove conditions or 2x superior monk, 2x superior water and 2x major rune of sanctuary for max boon increase duration. (if you have pure of voice trait already, you may opt for the max boon duration rune setup as I’ve explained.)

For skills you should do 2 shouts + signet of judgement (for retaliation)
The 2 shouts I would prefer stand your ground and hold the line. (retaliation, and regen/dmg reduction to team. With Pure of voice each time you activate a shout you change a condition on your whole team to boons.)

Elite should be renewed focus. (invulnerable emergency button/recharge your virtues)

This way you’ll have decent hp, good toughness, and max healing power.

Recommend staff / sceptor + shield

This build is exceptionally good in dungeons, and good in zergs in wvw.

Just don’t expect to 1v1 anyone, that’s all.

It is viable, although it’s a good idea to avoid having zero Power on you equipment. For instance, all Magi’s gear is very low on Power, and while you will be effective being supportive, you yourself will find progress rather slow, especially roaming solo (some people can deal with it, but I bet it would be a minority.) That is because the Guardian has less damaging conditions (burning only), so your offense is mostly power-based (including Retaliation.) While you don’t really need 3,300+ power at level 80, you would need enough power so playing Guardian feels comfortable to you, and not a sluggish chore.

Disregard any comment that states that you must play offensively-play whichever way you want. Having said that, you can still inflict the pain on your enemies while supporting your allies, and there’s no healer role in-game (however, GW2 isn’t about DPS only, as some are firmly convinced.)

Wearing Berserker’s is for full offense, which is fine, but it ain’t a badge of GW2 expertise (“I know how to dodge, therefore I don’t need any Toughness-I kill them before they know it, and they never hit back!”) If you can live with no Toughness at all, it is your choice, but it doesn’t mean that anyone investing in Toughness is “missing out” just because damage output isn’t the same as full Berserker’s.

It is not selfish to play the way you want. It is selfish to want others to play your way so you can achieve your goals at the cost of another player’s individuality. I can play the way I want and still be a positive force in my party-in short, playing my way doesn’t mean I won’t play effectively.

Lalangamena has a very powerful party build up there, focusing both on offensive and defensive abilities, and being a great asset to any party on any content. I use Knight’s armor instead, with 5 Exotic Cleric’s Trinkets and an Exotic Magi Bagpack (there is an Ascended version, but there are not Cleric’s Exotic’s bagpack at the time of this post) but achieve similar results, though I do switch Purity of Voice with Battle Presence as needed, and prefer it more for Mace and Shield/Staff Dungeon play (it does work with every PvE content imaginable, though.)

(Since I use Knight’s armor, which provides a bit of Precision, I don’t really need Retributive Armor (though it could only help) so I generally use Purity instead, with Honorable Shield for my mace/shield playstyle on a 20/30/20 build.)

My hope is that some years along the road (since Ascended is SO HARD to obtain, and I am gearing up Ascended trinkets on my Mesmer for now) I will have full Cleric’s Ascended Trinkets, using the same Knight’s armor I am right now.

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Thank you very much Guys! I really appreciate your advice But i mostly like the Builds KensaiZen and Lalangamena said above!! This gear setup was on my mind since i start playing my guardian. Also DeathPanel is right. If the team wants high dps, why they should bother picking a Guardian? Warrior is uber for its high dps (100B :P). My first character was a warrior, i really liked the gameplay but i don’t know, i am born to Support the others Guardian is the best proffesion out there for max team support. I know the more DPS done to the boss is the better for your team, but with that logic Guardian’s gameplay will be useless in this game. Anyway, thanks alot guys!

DeathPanel.8362:

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Nobody here is advocating running around in a full zerker set nor saying that a full dps guardian is the way to go.

I’d appreciate if you read what I said instead of try to put words in my mouth and argue those.

By full support what I meant was focusing on healing/tanking ONLY and ignoring damage entirely – this is a bad idea. A balanced build is where you really shine. As good a healer as you can possibly be, people will die if they make stupid mistakes nor can you “hold agro” – you will never prop up a party’s shortcomings in that fashion like you would in other games. You need to bring SOME damage to the table or you’re just as much a liability by extending boss fights.

Shimond.2478:

DeathPanel.8362:

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Nobody here is advocating running around in a full zerker set nor saying that a full dps guardian is the way to go.

I’d appreciate if you read what I said instead of try to put words in my mouth and argue those.

By full support what I meant was focusing on healing/tanking ONLY and ignoring damage entirely – this is a bad idea. A balanced build is where you really shine. As good a healer as you can possibly be, people will die if they make stupid mistakes nor can you “hold agro” – you will never prop up a party’s shortcomings in that fashion like you would in other games. You need to bring SOME damage to the table or you’re just as much a liability by extending boss fights.

Well, being in support spec does not mean that i will never dps on boss. Ofc i will but my dmg will be lower than decent dps.

Shimond.2478:

DeathPanel.8362:

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Nobody here is advocating running around in a full zerker set nor saying that a full dps guardian is the way to go.

I’d appreciate if you read what I said instead of try to put words in my mouth and argue those.

By full support what I meant was focusing on healing/tanking ONLY and ignoring damage entirely – this is a bad idea. A balanced build is where you really shine. As good a healer as you can possibly be, people will die if they make stupid mistakes nor can you “hold agro” – you will never prop up a party’s shortcomings in that fashion like you would in other games. You need to bring SOME damage to the table or you’re just as much a liability by extending boss fights.

The damage you bring is trivial compared to damage dealing classes unless you are in full zerk spec, and even then it’s not comparable.

Survival is just as important if not more important in a majority of encounters, since dead people do 0 dps.

Most of the dmg you contribute is in terms of might stacks, team retaliation, and wall of reflection, not direct attacks in more difficult dungeons.

No one is saying you should just stand around using only support skills as a support guardian, I’m just pointing out the damage you deal is not comparable even in a so-called “balanced” build you have and the reason people invite a guard is NOT for damage.

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Hello Everyone. I’m leveling my Guardian right now and i want to ask a question. IS Full Support Spec( Boon “Buffer”, Heal, abit “Tankish”) Guardian viable for Dungeons?? I really like the way guardian works with boon etc but i am not sure if it will work well. Also if it is, whats your opinion about Weapons etc?

Yes, “Support” Guardians are very viable in Dungeons and people love having you in their parties! You can Tank, use support skills that make encounters a lot easier, and heal your party very well.

However, you aren’t a real Tank, DPS, OR healer. You’re a hybrid. You tank by being able to self-heal yourself with the mace and you heal with your mace skills, but they have long cooldowns so don’t think you can sit the back and be a healer!

Just a Question! Where i can find Cleric’s gear, except Crafting? I realised the Nightmare one with HP is Magi’s…

Shimond.2478:

DeathPanel.8362:

Shimond.2478:

You’ll never be a true healer or tank really, so in my opinion going full support is just going to slow your group down unnecessarily (since you won’t do as much damage, thus boss fights take even longer). A balanced build is superior, enough that you can help the group out (it’s what guardians do) but still hit hard enough to matter on the damage end.

That’s not true. Guardians will never compare to any of the dps classes in dmg anyway so there’s no point in speccing for damage. Guards are useful for their boons and condition removal abilities as well as utility skills(reflection, retaliation, stability, regeneration etc.), not for their actual direct combat dmg.

The extra damage squeezed out with a full zerker spec (and I’ve tested it with a full zerker set) doesn’t outweigh the lost utility in support and survivability.

Nobody here is advocating running around in a full zerker set nor saying that a full dps guardian is the way to go.

I’d appreciate if you read what I said instead of try to put words in my mouth and argue those.

By full support what I meant was focusing on healing/tanking ONLY and ignoring damage entirely – this is a bad idea. A balanced build is where you really shine. As good a healer as you can possibly be, people will die if they make stupid mistakes nor can you “hold agro” – you will never prop up a party’s shortcomings in that fashion like you would in other games. You need to bring SOME damage to the table or you’re just as much a liability by extending boss fights.

You can’t “ignore” damage because every possible tank (and cleric) piece possible has power or precision snuck into it. It’s just a simple fact that Guardian DPS isn’t AS good as other classes. My Thief (and Mesmer — not as good as my Thief though) can put out double the damage my Guardian can dish out even in a full DPS build.

However, my two other classes don’t have the level of support abilities a Guardian has.

DeathPanel.8362:

The damage you bring is trivial compared to damage dealing classes unless you are in full zerk spec, and even then it’s not comparable.

I would like to see some actual numbers, can you please link this data?

Reason I ask is in my testing Guards can sustain comparable damage to other classes like War and Thief. I haven’t been able to match their burst but sustained I believe we’re close, PvE wise. Now, without an accurate dps meter or combat log this is hard to verify so any actual data is needed. Without it we’re just guessing.

@OP
I’ve run with some people that do the Tank/Healer setup and what they bring to the group is at best on par with a standard setup, in most cases I think the group would be better off with both just doing damage and staying alive. With most weapons you’ll just naturally bring support to the group and your utilities, especially reflects and shouts, are great support to a group. My suggestion is go with a build you have fun playing, does good damage and keep support in mind. We have a lot of viable builds.

Yes we can heal and I’m interested in finding a high damage and healing spec but haven’t explored it yet.

Blood~

I do hard dungeons switching in full berserkers on alot of fights and it causes no problems, the damage output is very good, focusing on support beyond traiting consecration cd/durations for some fights/switching in tankier gear for some situations just seems like unnecessarily wasted potential.. I love how all 5 players can maximize dps and make runs go fast, I think it’s something to aim for, alot of fights I can maximize my dps and everyone is just fine, my walls, shields of the avengers, stability, boons, protection, cc and might buffs are all functioning.

To each his own I just don’t like to see full support slow damage Guardians in my group, just makes me spend more time in that instance, in my experience it’s not necessary if everyone is playing right and dodging properly.

Also to say that full berserker is a waste of time sounds crazy to me, run more tests, lots of us guardians are surviving and supporting just fine wearing it and providing as much dps as possible, traits like unscathed defender and right handed mastery go a long way… either way even if it just added 1% damage its still worth it if you aren’t dying while wearing it.

A guardian specced purely for dps will rival a warriors dps over longer periods of time, without a doubt. I have a fully optimized berserker warrior and the dps is honestly not that impressive even if it is almost twice as much as my BALANCED guardia that is needed for other glassy warriors to put out their dmg in the first place. They do have way bigger burst damage though, with quickness. Again, though, a BALANCED guardian to me has mainly berserker gear and only 1 or 2 soldiers and knights pieces at maximum. It’s just the defensive traits that are too good to pass up, perhaps if the zeal tree was better (+5% more GS dmg like warriors plx, grandmaster trait plx) you’d see more zeal/valor meditation builds and their damage would rival warriors while being tankier.

Also, again, I see no point going FULL support. It’s not like you’re gonna provide much more support than me anyway (with the protection part not scaling with healing power, the tome of courage being flat amount on 3,5) while I do twice your damage.

Also, the places where “support” is really needed are usually specific instances like for example the harpy fractal. I got 39% uptime on wall of reflection, 33% uptime on partywide balance boon and the aegis if needed.

This game is kind of built in a way that it’s best if everyone tried to optimize and just use whatever cheap support skills that are given to us. That way you’ll have a whole group who’s improving your clear time while you can all semi-support eachother.

Incomingray.8075:

I do hard dungeons switching in full berserkers on alot of fights and it causes no problems, the damage output is very good, focusing on support beyond traiting consecration cd/durations for some fights/switching in tankier gear for some situations just seems like unnecessarily wasted potential.. I love how all 5 players can maximize dps and make runs go fast, I think it’s something to aim for, alot of fights I can maximize my dps and everyone is just fine, my walls, shields of the avengers, stability, boons, protection, cc and might buffs are all functioning.

To each his own I just don’t like to see full support slow damage Guardians in my group, just makes me spend more time in that instance, in my experience it’s not necessary if everyone is playing right and dodging properly.

Also to say that full berserker is a waste of time sounds crazy to me, run more tests, lots of us guardians are surviving and supporting just fine wearing it and providing as much dps as possible, traits like unscathed defender and right handed mastery go a long way… either way even if it just added 1% damage its still worth it if you aren’t dying while wearing it.

Why should everyone in dngs use Full Dps berserks gear builds??? I know the faster you kill the boss the faster the dng will end, but again if i wanted to play a pure DPS char i would go for Warrior…. Oh i found the perfect solution. Lets remove all the Healing Power, Soldiers (tankish) items and attributes, and make all the proffessions being Pure High Damage Dealers…..

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Why should everyone in dngs use Full Dps berserks gear builds??? I know the faster you kill the boss the faster the dng will end, but again if i wanted to play a pure DPS char i would go for Warrior…. Oh i found the perfect solution. Lets remove all the Healing Power, Soldiers (tankish) items and attributes, and make all the proffessions being Pure High Damage Dealers…..

Slow down here, you have to realize I said to each his own, i’m just offering advice based on my experience, I also said that we have alot of support while in full dps mode, you can’t dispute the fact that some Guardians are making high dps builds work, if it doesn’t work for some people that’s fine, play whatever style you want, I just prefer to see high damage Guardians who don’t neglect their utility in my groups so that’s what I advise other Guardians to strive for because it has worked so well for me… and i’m stating reasons why.

I use healing power in PVP alot, I just don’t see a place for it in optimal dungeon running at this point.. I like fast runs, I want to get the dungeon finished and get back to pvping Oh yeah and I do switch in tough/vitality gear in dungeons when the situation calls for it, I don’t use full berserkers only, my build is dps slanted but has lots of utility.

Also want to add that being squishy sometimes makes a dungeon a bit more exciting and challenging for me, I love the unscathed defender trait, I love maximizing my damage by not getting hit by anything.

Incomingray.8075:

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Why should everyone in dngs use Full Dps berserks gear builds??? I know the faster you kill the boss the faster the dng will end, but again if i wanted to play a pure DPS char i would go for Warrior…. Oh i found the perfect solution. Lets remove all the Healing Power, Soldiers (tankish) items and attributes, and make all the proffessions being Pure High Damage Dealers…..

Slow down here, you have to realize I said to each his own, i’m just offering advice based on my experience, I also said that we have alot of support while in full dps mode, you can’t dispute the fact that some Guardians are making high dps builds work, if it doesn’t work for some people that’s fine, play whatever style you want, I just prefer to see high damage Guardians who don’t neglect their utility in my groups so that’s what I advise other Guardians to strive for because it has worked so well for me… and i’m stating reasons why.

I use healing power in PVP alot, I just don’t see a place for it in optimal dungeon running at this point.. I like fast runs, I want to get the dungeon finished and get back to pvping Oh yeah and I do switch in tough/vitality gear in dungeons when the situation calls for it, I don’t use full berserkers only, my build is dps slanted but has lots of utility.

Also want to add that being squishy sometimes makes a dungeon a bit more exciting and challenging for me, I love the unscathed defender trait, I love maximizing my damage by not getting hit by anything.

Playing support Guardian in dungeons is about tanking the mobs that the squishies can’t take, providing boons/utilities to make the encounters easier, bringing healing (mace, selfless daring, battle presence, etc) while still being able to do reasonable damage.

DPS is just one thing, raw numbers. It’s about bringing the boss from 100% to 0% as fast as possible, but support is about keeping your allies alive to make it easier for them to kill things.

It’s the difference between being selfless and selfish. Guardian’s full potential really doesn’t show in DPS builds, especially in WvW.

Support guardian’s in WvW are incredibly powerful — group heals, wall of reflections, wall of lining+sanctuaries, swiftness, stabilities, and tomes.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Playing support Guardian in dungeons is about tanking the mobs that the squishies can’t take, providing boons/utilities to make the encounters easier, bringing healing (mace, selfless daring, battle presence, etc) while still being able to do reasonable damage.

DPS is just one thing, raw numbers. It’s about bringing the boss from 100% to 0% as fast as possible, but support is about keeping your allies alive to make it easier for them to kill things.

It’s the difference between being selfless and selfish. Guardian’s full potential really doesn’t show in DPS builds, especially in WvW.

Support guardian’s in WvW are incredibly powerful — group heals, wall of reflections, wall of lining+sanctuaries, swiftness, stabilities, and tomes.

The whole arguement here is that you can have full berserkers at your disposal in a dps oriented build and still have all the required support and still be able to tank mobs… having a build that can pretty much maximize your damage output really doesn’t hurt your group support/utility I find.. say i’m facing level 40 fractals Dredge trash, i’ll put on a bit of tough/vital gear and use hammer or GS or w/e and walls of reflection etc. and stay alive tanking mobs protecting teammates, when we get to the single target boss i’m in full berserkers with alot of DPS traits selected doing alot of damage and not dying, and i’m still putting out guardian utility.

To me it’s about being versatile but having the ability to pretty much max out your damage so that things die fast when you need to.. I also find that killing mobs fast as possible is often what saves lives, against the 1shot type of things in dungeons I think it’s best to burn things down quickly to support your teammates.

ComeAndSee.1356:

Support guardian’s in WvW are incredibly powerful — group heals, wall of reflections, wall of lining+sanctuaries, swiftness, stabilities, and tomes.

And absolutely none of what you list here is unavailable to someone in full berserker’s gear. Your gear does not determine your traits or utilities.

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Also DeathPanel is right. If the team wants high dps, why they should bother picking a Guardian? Warrior is uber for its high dps (100B :P).

That’s not true, Guardians don’t have the same burst damage as Warriors, but our sustained damage is higher if built properly for damage.

My full Power with a 30/0/10/30/0 build deals 950~1050, 950~1050, 1600~1900 with the Greatsword’s auto-attack.
My Warrior only gets 1050~1150, 1050~1150, 1350~1500 only when I’m at 3 bars of adrenaline + 10 stacks of Might or more (Signet of Rage + For Great Justice).
Both with same gear, same runes, same stats, same target, and using a DpS build with decent survivability/support (Guardian’s 30/0/10/30/0, Warrior’s 20/20/0/20/10).

Imagine if you had the same 10 stacks of Might on your Guardian. It’s trickier to maintain it, but that’s where the support from Warriors and Elementalists come in.

So even if a Guardian’s damage is lower than a Warrior’s, I’d say it’s a very minimal difference and mostly because the lack of Fury if you don’t have a high enough crit chance.

People who say Guardians damage sucks compared to others are the ones who run full bunker builds (X + 0/0/30/30/0) and say “my damage is decent”.

Don’t kitten yourself thinking Guardians can’t damage.

i would recommand going 30 honor and do with the rest what suites you best.
30 honor has the advantage of being extremley flexible in what you do.

you can go for reduced shouts to be a buff throwning condition remover with 20% two hand weapon cd reduction for more dps and/or faster empowering might.

if you know the dungeons and mechanics “stand your ground” and “hold the line” are golden. toss in virtue activated buffs and might from crits you have solid setup which lets anyone in group profit greatly.

you could also go for a defensive near-facetank experience with trating symbols all the way and going for mace focus — really good if you have close combat professions/playstyles in your party.

other then that bringing scepter/shield regardless of you weapon preference is a good idea.

applying boons is what we do best and with ease

Danicco.3568:

My full Power with a 30/0/10/30/0 build deals 950~1050, 950~1050, 1600~1900 with the Greatsword’s auto-attack.
My Warrior only gets 1050~1150, 1050~1150, 1350~1500 only when I’m at 3 bars of adrenaline + 10 stacks of Might or more (Signet of Rage + For Great Justice).
Both with same gear, same runes, same stats, same target, and using a DpS build with decent survivability/support (Guardian’s 30/0/10/30/0, Warrior’s 20/20/0/20/10).

While I totally agree with the essence of what you’re saying and proving, I have to chip in that the warrior build could get more than a 10% dps increase by relocating 5 trait points. And unfortunately GS warriors don’t really want to use their auto attack, since their dps is so much better with 2,3 and even 4,5. Guardians have good burst with their whirling wrath too but it’s so much shorter than warriors hundred blades.

Alvik.4207:

While I totally agree with the essence of what you’re saying and proving, I have to chip in that the warrior build could get more than a 10% dps increase by relocating 5 trait points.

At the cost of something else that I spent for support or survivability.

That could be the same for the Guardian, though the reallocating would be a bit more drastic (the hit on survivability/support would be that of 15 points, but I’d get 15 points in damage instead).
That’s why I made a balanced build for both (both are missing 10~15% damage increase from traits).

Danicco.3568:

At the cost of something else that I spent for support or survivability.

That could be the same for the Guardian, though the reallocating would be a bit more drastic (the hit on survivability/support would be that of 15 points, but I’d get 15 points in damage instead).
That’s why I made a balanced build for both (both are missing 10~15% damage increase from traits).

I understand that, but the 10% more damage is more than what those points would increase the warriors tankiness. What I kinda argued is that the build was badly “balanced” since my definition of balance is what increases your characters efficiency treating offense and defense of equal importance.

Shimond.2478:

ComeAndSee.1356:

Support guardian’s in WvW are incredibly powerful — group heals, wall of reflections, wall of lining+sanctuaries, swiftness, stabilities, and tomes.

And absolutely none of what you list here is unavailable to someone in full berserker’s gear. Your gear does not determine your traits or utilities.

You can’t heal with a Greatsword, Scepter, or Sword. The Mace can put out the highest amount of healing. The staff isn’t far behind. :O

Your gear and build determines what you’re good at and what you’re not good at.

Alvik.4207:

I understand that, but the 10% more damage is more than what those points would increase the warriors tankiness. What I kinda argued is that the build was badly “balanced” since my definition of balance is what increases your characters efficiency treating offense and defense of equal importance.

Hmm I don’t think so.
Because you see, 20 points in Strength are a must for 10% extra damage. Stick and Move is crappy damage, so I’m guessing you’re talking about Attack of Opportunity.
To get 5 points here you’d have to remove either from Discipline or Tactics.

Discipline has Signet Mastery or Heightened Focus for damage, and since I’m assuming you’re using Signet of Rage always to get decent damage in, I traited for that.
It also gives 10% crit damage just to make it comparable to my Guardian’s build.

Tactics I also find a must for survivability and support because it increases my Boon Duration by 20% + Runes of 20% for my group-wide Mights, and it gives me 2 Majors of support. Empower Allies, Inspiring Banners, Lung Capacity, Quick Breathing, Shrug It Off… there’s plenty of great support traits there.

The same goes for the Guardian, I pick 2 Majors for Support since the 3rd in Honor is always 2H Mastery.

Ideally I should trait both equally, something like 20/20/10/20/0 for the Guardian to compare to the Warrior’s 20/20/0/20/10 (same critical chance and damage increase, same power) but some traits misplacement would make this kinda bad… (like 2H Mastery)

If it’s about a build mainly for damage, both should go 20/25/X/X/X, but that doesn’t leave much room for support in my opinion.
Guardians should pick 25 in Honor for another 10% extra damage and 2H Mastery, but then you’d have to choose between 2H Mastery or Empowering Might… Warriors have more freedom in this I think, and they can go pretty much anywhere for extra damage or survivability.

Anyway, both still do comparable damage, have 2~4 majors for support, most damage increases and reduced cooldowns with free choice of utilities.

Incomingray.8075:

To me it’s about being versatile but having the ability to pretty much max out your damage so that things die fast when you need to.. I also find that killing mobs fast as possible is often what saves lives, against the 1shot type of things in dungeons I think it’s best to burn things down quickly to support your teammates.

I mean we can go back and forth debating all day. Mitigating damage + healing and killing things faster aren’t even on the same boat. Being versatile on my Guardian is just picking the right weapon, traits, and utilities for whatever I’m being thrown against. I don’t change gear because I’m comfortable with what I have. (see my sig)

Seriously though. If I want to DPS and kill things I have two real DPS classes to do; my thief and mesmer (which are far better than a Guardians). I pick whatever character I want to play based on their strengths, group desire, and whatever I feel like playing.

My Guardian = Tank/healer/support
My Thief = DPS / WvW scout
My Mesmer = DPS / specialized in Glamour so hybrid support/AOE DPS + confusions.

Alvik.4207:

This game is kind of built in a way that it’s best if everyone tried to optimize and just use whatever cheap support skills that are given to us. That way you’ll have a whole group who’s improving your clear time while you can all semi-support eachother.

You can optimize in ways other than DPS too-it’s just that you prefer DPS-way, and that’s OK as long as you don’t force it on others’ playstyle.

In short, weren’t other playstyles viable, we wouldn’t have those options in the first place. This game has a place for people like you, and those who wouldn’t go full Berserker’s, and we can-and should-all co-exist happily.

It’s ironic that I am using a 30/0/0//30/10 build on Dungeons to great effect, which I bet most people would claim it’s flawed and useless-backed by math and everything. I don’t care, because I still do well, and I am glad there’s no build/gear check, because some hive-mind, berserker-only elitists wouldn’t give me a chance without letting me play first, based on my “bad” build and gear choices.

(BTW, Alvik, the above isn’t aimed at you at all, so please take no offense.)

Star Ace.5207:

It’s ironic that I am using a 30/0/0//30/10 build on Dungeons to great effect, which I bet most people would claim it’s flawed and useless-backed by math and everything. I don’t care, because I still do well, and I am glad there’s no build/gear check, because some hive-mind, berserker-only elitists wouldn’t give me a chance without letting me play first, based on my “bad” build and gear choices.

I play a similar build, with 10 in Valor for more personal bulkiness and when I’m soloing with Meditations, but 10 in Virtues are better for group support.
And I doubt someone would dare argue that a 30/0/0/30/0 + 10 build isn’t one of the best builds there is, because it is, and can be mathematically proved =p

Bloodgruve.6038:

DeathPanel.8362:

The damage you bring is trivial compared to damage dealing classes unless you are in full zerk spec, and even then it’s not comparable.

I would like to see some actual numbers, can you please link this data?

Reason I ask is in my testing Guards can sustain comparable damage to other classes like War and Thief. I haven’t been able to match their burst but sustained I believe we’re close, PvE wise. Now, without an accurate dps meter or combat log this is hard to verify so any actual data is needed. Without it we’re just guessing.

@OP
I’ve run with some people that do the Tank/Healer setup and what they bring to the group is at best on par with a standard setup, in most cases I think the group would be better off with both just doing damage and staying alive. With most weapons you’ll just naturally bring support to the group and your utilities, especially reflects and shouts, are great support to a group. My suggestion is go with a build you have fun playing, does good damage and keep support in mind. We have a lot of viable builds.

Yes we can heal and I’m interested in finding a high damage and healing spec but haven’t explored it yet.

Blood~

I have a full set of zerks, a full set of clerics, and a full set of soldiers/knights(half and half) for my guardian since it’s my main.

I really don’t want to spend too much time recording raw data but just to tell you I have 8 characters(one of each class) each with all exotics/ascended all specced for dungeons/wvw.

My zerk warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, and elementalist can easily output 2x to 3x the damage my guardian can in a full zerk spec from my direct observations. (especially my zerk warrior)

For guardians:
Zerks output decent dmg and is good for quick exp dungeons, no good for wvw and high fotm.

Clerics is great for any dungeon and good for wvw only if you travel with coordinated zerg. (including especially fotm) It may not be neccessary for some of the exp dungeons since they are so easy they don’t require too much support anyway.

Soldiers/Knights is decent for both dungeons and wvw, but not as good as clerics in higher fotm.

It’s all about what you want to do and what trade off you are willing to make. Since the OP said he wanted to focus on dungeons, I recommended the full cleric setup.

Well, i know full support is not the best for fast dungeons. But the main reason i decided to lvl my guardian was that. If i wanted to be a pure Damage dealer, i would still play my warrior. But as i said before, being support in grp does not mean i will do 0 dps. I will just do lower dps than decent, but i will provide my team with more powerful boons so they can fill the gap.

Also, where can i find cleric’s gear except crafting because i realized dungeon NPC’s don’t give Cleric’s armor.

DeathPanel.8362:

I have a full set of zerks, a full set of clerics, and a full set of soldiers/knights(half and half) for my guardian since it’s my main.

I really don’t want to spend too much time recording raw data but just to tell you I have 8 characters(one of each class) each with all exotics/ascended all specced for dungeons/wvw.

My zerk warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, and elementalist can easily output 2x to 3x the damage my guardian can in a full zerk spec from my direct observations. (especially my zerk warrior)

I don’t intend to flame but, if I told you I’m the Pope and that I have 10 GW2 accounts with all characters full Exotics, all legendaries, inside knowledge from the devs, a Math’s degree and a 3m longsword and I say the Earth is square, would you believe me?

Screenshot notes: Whirling Wrath is harder to hit all hits like that than Hundred Blades, and it is still weaker.
A Warrior with 13 stacks of Might deals comparable damage to a Guardian’s base attack.
Guardians have Symbols and Burning that adds to damage, Warriors bleed only if they trait for it.

Builds used were 30 Power + anything that doesn’t affect damage, with Greatsword Damage, Fiery Wrath / Berserker’s Power and anything else in the 3rd Major that doesn’t affect damage.

2x to 3x damage of your Guardian you say? I think you might want to check your build/gear because you seem to be doing something terribly wrong…

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Well, i know full support is not the best for fast dungeons. But the main reason i decided to lvl my guardian was that. If i wanted to be a pure Damage dealer, i would still play my warrior. But as i said before, being support in grp does not mean i will do 0 dps. I will just do lower dps than decent, but i will provide my team with more powerful boons so they can fill the gap.

Also, where can i find cleric’s gear except crafting because i realized dungeon NPC’s don’t give Cleric’s armor.

We’re not saying going support is bad, at least what I am trying to say is… don’t go support for dungeons, build/trait the same you would for damage and keep the support something that doesn’t cost you anything.

Cleric’s Armor is a bad idea for example, you’re greatly lowering your damage for extra Healing Power, and I ask you, when will you use this Healing Power?
Battle Presence? Are you going to spam Empower every 16 sec? Are you playing only Mace?

You can gear Berserker/Knights/Soldier, maintain a good damage output (Berserk → Knights → Soldier), and still get to support your team with traits and utilities.
Get Empowering Might, Writ of the Merciful, use a Staff/Mace/Shield when needed, get Battle Presence, throw Wall of Reflections and Purging Grounds, Hold the Line, etc, and you’re doing an excellent support with it already as well as really being helpful for your group.

Clerics gear is viable with a might stacking boon guard. The damage reduction is compensated for by the 18-20 stacks of might you and all your team will have. Also it will keep people alive for longer.

However, you don’t need to go extreme and gear EVERYTHING for healing. That will just make you a kitten Even with 20 stacks of might.

Ok i heard so many different opinions and builds! I got confused right now! Can some1 make the support build (mace+shield/Staff) on a calculator so i can compare it with my newbie build? :P Thanks alot for your advice guys! I would like you to use http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/ because is op (have alot of options) :P

KensaiZen.3740:

Clerics gear is viable with a might stacking boon guard. The damage reduction is compensated for by the 18-20 stacks of might you and all your team will have. Also it will keep people alive for longer.

However, you don’t need to go extreme and gear EVERYTHING for healing. That will just make you a kitten Even with 20 stacks of might.

Although nowadays I mostly use a mix of Knight’s and Cleric’s, for some players, a mix of Magi and Cleric’s or Full Cleric’s makes very much sense, and works for them. They can go 1,700+ Healing Power and still get to be effective, but it takes the right kind of player to be open-minded to the idea (I am sure you wouldn’t do it yourself, and that’s fine, but they are entitled to their choice-I surely wouldn’t mind having them in my party.)

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

I have a full set of zerks, a full set of clerics, and a full set of soldiers/knights(half and half) for my guardian since it’s my main.

I really don’t want to spend too much time recording raw data but just to tell you I have 8 characters(one of each class) each with all exotics/ascended all specced for dungeons/wvw.

My zerk warrior, mesmer, engineer, thief, and elementalist can easily output 2x to 3x the damage my guardian can in a full zerk spec from my direct observations. (especially my zerk warrior)

I don’t intend to flame but, if I told you I’m the Pope and that I have 10 GW2 accounts with all characters full Exotics, all legendaries, inside knowledge from the devs, a Math’s degree and a 3m longsword and I say the Earth is square, would you believe me?

Wrong.

Extraordinary claims do in fact require extraordinary evidence but my claims were NOT extraordinary and can be easily proven.

For example:

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Also, where can i find cleric’s gear except crafting because i realized dungeon NPC’s don’t give Cleric’s armor.

You probably know this by now, but you can either buy all pieces you need from the Trading Post (Cleric’s Draconic Coat, etc.) or you can craft them yourself with armorer. I could craft them for you for free if you hand me the required mats, but I am sure you also have friends/Guildies who would love to do that for you as well.

Note that the donwside of Full Cleric’s is no Precision (outside the Radiance tree). Decide if this is something you want and can live with. I myself like to throw a bit of precision on my build, so that I can more or less keep Vigor up forever through the Honor tree. Still, you don’t need to do full Cleric’s-you can blend Magi’s and Cleric’s pieces (some dungeons have the Magi sets.) OR you can have all exotic Cleric’s accessories, and something like Knight’s, or even Berserker’s for more Offense (and way less defense.) Still, it’s possible for full Cleric’s to work, but I wanted you to be aware of the lack of much Precision with that gear (which is fine, if you know what you are doing.)

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Ok i heard so many different opinions and builds! I got confused right now! Can some1 make the support build (mace+shield/Staff) on a calculator so i can compare it with my newbie build? :P Thanks alot for your advice guys! I would like you to use http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/ because is op (have alot of options) :P

I would suggest for you to try the things you like in the comments above for yourself, and see whether they work for you and your allies. Math is good as a base, but in the end, you’ll have to enjoy playing your build, after all.

Star Ace.5207:

KoRnStyleZ.7142:

Ok i heard so many different opinions and builds! I got confused right now! Can some1 make the support build (mace+shield/Staff) on a calculator so i can compare it with my newbie build? :P Thanks alot for your advice guys! I would like you to use http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/ because is op (have alot of options) :P

I would suggest for you to try the things you like in the comments above for yourself, and see whether they work for you and your allies. Math is good as a base, but in the end, you’ll have to enjoy playing your build, after all.

I made a build which is not that great (here’s the big link, http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/guardian/?3.4|6.1k.h6|9.1k.h6.e.1k.a8|1a.71g.1a.71g.1a.71h.1a.71h.1a.bw.1a.bw|3s.d1e.3s.d1e.3t.d1e.3s.d1e.3t.d1e.3s.d1e|0.0.u59b.u28c.a6|4d.1|w.11.19.16.1i|e) so feel free to check it and make any changes you want! By the way, my guardian is 41 lvl so i have a lot of time to think which play style i’m gonna follow Thanks a lot again

Star Ace.5207:

KensaiZen.3740:

Clerics gear is viable with a might stacking boon guard. The damage reduction is compensated for by the 18-20 stacks of might you and all your team will have. Also it will keep people alive for longer.

However, you don’t need to go extreme and gear EVERYTHING for healing. That will just make you a kitten Even with 20 stacks of might.

Although nowadays I mostly use a mix of Knight’s and Cleric’s, for some players, a mix of Magi and Cleric’s or Full Cleric’s makes very much sense, and works for them. They can go 1,700+ Healing Power and still get to be effective, but it takes the right kind of player to be open-minded to the idea (I am sure you wouldn’t do it yourself, and that’s fine, but they are entitled to their choice-I surely wouldn’t mind having them in my party.)

Sure they can do it if they want to. There’s nothing to stop them doing it. I just don’t feel there is a need to go over 1k healing as most of the time you will be over healing your group.

If you play with guild teams or experienced pugs. 90% of the time you won’t even need to heal. Active support through boons does not require healing power unless regent is your target boon.

High Lvl fractals will be the only exception.

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong.

Extraordinary claims do in fact require extraordinary evidence but my claims were NOT extraordinary and can be easily proven.

So your claim of your Guardian dealing 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of your other professions is true, backed by your experience with all characters, and it really means you’re doing something terribly wrong.

You might be assuming I called your claim false, but I didn’t.
I said your claim is absolutely irrelevant and that you’re presenting a false argument to the discussion. I find it really bad when someone who’s asking for advice, seeking for knowledge, and he gets wrong informations from arguments based on whims.

Me, the pope, as being you, the super pro player, calling the Earth square (it’s a lie! And what me being the Pope has to do with it?) as opposed to you saying Guardians deal 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of other professions (protip: it’s a lie! And what has you having some professions at 80 do with it?).

Got it?

Danicco.3568:

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong.

Extraordinary claims do in fact require extraordinary evidence but my claims were NOT extraordinary and can be easily proven.

So your claim of your Guardian dealing 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of your other professions is true, backed by your experience with all characters, and it really means you’re doing something terribly wrong.

You might be assuming I called your claim false, but I didn’t.
I said your claim is absolutely irrelevant and that you’re presenting a false argument to the discussion. I find it really bad when someone who’s asking for advice, seeking for knowledge, and he gets wrong informations from arguments based on whims.

Me, the pope, as being you, the super pro player, calling the Earth square (it’s a lie! And what me being the Pope has to do with it?) as opposed to you saying Guardians deal 1/2 or 1/3 the damage of other professions (protip: it’s a lie! And what has you having some professions at 80 do with it?).

Got it?

Wrong. I backed up my claims, you did not.

All I’ve seen so far is a bunch of nonsense from you and unsubstantiated denials of reality.

DeathPanel.8362:

Wrong. I backed up my claims, you did not.

All I’ve seen so far is a bunch of nonsense from you and unsubstantiated denials of reality.

In case you didn’t noticed, I linked an image that should speak for itself, but if you didn’t understand it, I can explain it to you: Guardian’s have a higher base damage (auto-attacks) than Warriors.
This means that most of the damage you see from Warriors comes from skills 2~5, where Guardians is from the auto-attack.

What might be giving you the sense that Guardians are way weaker than Warriors is because Guardians don’t have a skill that deals 10k damage with a single button, but when it comes for damage you compare the damage dealt / time spent.
So if you think about it just a little bit, you might notice a Guardian can deal 50% of the damage of a Hundred Blades just with the auto-attack.

This means that, when a Warrior’s not Hundred Blades-ing, Guardians are dealing more damage. When they are, Guardians are dealing less damage.

Now, let’s advance it a bit further.

Guardians also have two other sources of damage, one is Virtue of Justice, that causes 1s of Burning every 5 attacks, and the other is Symbol of Wrath.
If you factor in those two, you’ll notice that Guardians are way more close in damage with Warriors than your narrow-minded thinking was 3 posts ago.

That image serves as backup for my claims that Guardians deal comparable damage to Warriors, counter yours that “Guardians deal 1/2 or 1/3 damage of other professions” and is free for anyone to test in 10 min or less in the Mists.

Not considering that is what I’d call “unsubstantiated denials of reality”, but you seem to have a history of misusing words and their meanings so I won’t delve into that…