Guild Wars 2

After seeing about the huge balance update, I was interested in what the developers could accomplish. I jumped on yesterday and tried experimenting in the three areas of the game: PvE, PvP, and WvW.

The shame about PvE is that I have kept the (roughly) the same build I have made since I first hit level 80. Sure, it’s the standard in Altruistic Healing builds, but I try to use different utilities than most players use. It gives me a play-style I can appreciate and it creates nothing more than an endless, healing bunker. This update has only changed one thing: I now have a second sigil slot for additional healing. My utility rotation hasn’t changed, my traits haven’t moved, and I still managed to sum up +50% Boon duration (Platinum Doubloons for anyone that hasn’t upgraded to Ascended). In short, I have no motivation to play any PvE.

I tried PvP for the first time, mainly because I couldn’t find a build before that interested me. With the new traits, I found Communal Defense. I thought I was doing well. After four matches, I quickly realized it didn’t apply to me. I backed out and tried some of the other traits. Condition Damage Guardians are just plain awful. You can’t have decent damage and survivability. For the best Burning application, you need at least 20 in Virtues and either 30 in Zeal or Radiance (+33% damage or +300 Condition Damage). That leaves you with 20 points. That 20 points cannot give you any decent survivability trait. After that, it felt like any build I tried was just nuked under conditions. It didn’t matter how many cleanses I have, I would just drop under the pressure. Sure, Guardians can have decent removal, but we (again) sacrifice survivability. I can’t bother with PvP knowing that all I can do is be a meat shield long enough to distract the enemy team so my allies can capture the points.

WvW doesn’t get anything from me either. Sure, I can alter my build somewhat with the new traits, but I still find myself stuck to a zerg. Roaming is a pain since it seems every other roamer is specialized in nuking you as quickly as possibly and/or stealthing away to do the same thing again. I had some decent fun in a small group, but a small group is a target for any enemy zerg, and the results aren’t pretty.

In short, Guardian (to me) feels restricted. Guardians feel like a kitten-all-trades profession where any build can make a difference, but not a single build has a peak worthy enough of being compared to a similar build of another profession. I can’t deal with it anymore. I shouldn’t have to feel like I need to level another character to 80, spend hours farming gold to purchase exotic gear, runes, and sigils, and then (and only then) can I find builds to switch between so I can enjoy every area of the game.

If ArenaNet truly believes the Guardian is in the best position of balance compared to every other profession, then I can’t say I agree at all.

To clarify, this most recent update was a feature patch, not a balance update.

AH is a boring (to me, anyway) playstyle. There are much more engaging options. If you’re bored you should try and move outside your comfort zone rather than immediately gravitating to the same-old same-old.

You’re restricting yourself. Have you tried a burst roaming meds build in WvW? That’s a lot of fun. There are other options too, like condition hybrids or spirit weapons. Spirit Weapons work pretty well in PvP, not so much WvW.

I still love playing my guard in pve 2000+ hrs and still not bored, good damage good support, always feel useful and active as a guardian. I recommend you try the DPS meta guardian build, it is great, check the top of the forums for Obal’s guide on it. AH is very poor for pve as it lacks damage and support. You cannot be a viable healer in pve and a viable tank, that is something you need to adapt your play style to

foofad.5162:

You’re restricting yourself. Have you tried a burst roaming meds build in WvW? That’s a lot of fun. There are other options too, like condition hybrids or spirit weapons. Spirit Weapons work pretty well in PvP, not so much WvW.

I have tried a Meditation build. I always find that I can’t out-heal the damage I take or remove the conditions the enemy applies. I’ve gone against Engineers and Rangers that regenerate faster than I can. I tried a condition build, and I found my survivabilty tank to a point where I couldn’t stand in combat for more than 8 seconds. I’ve tried to manage a variety of the basic builds, but I just find it too difficult to take down any opponents.

Guardian feels like a very difficult class to play in a competitive environment, and not because my opponents are the challenging part. With a low health pool, we melt under conditions, so we need to adapt for condition removal. Adapting for condition removal restricts our traits so heavily that we can’t trait for offense. Guardians can’t output the same power of conditions because we have one condition to apply. Meanwhile, other professions can gain condition removal, self-healing, and still apply tons of conditions on the opponent.

To any Guardian that can manage their own in PvP, I salute you, sincerely.

Painbow.6059:

I recommend you try the DPS meta guardian build, it is great, check the top of the forums for Obal’s guide on it. AH is very poor for pve as it lacks damage and support. You cannot be a viable healer in pve and a viable tank, that is something you need to adapt your play style to

I don’t really want to do solid DPS, that’s the point. I’d like to think there is more to building a character besides the meta. As for my Altruistic Healing build, I can face-tank most dungeons only by dodging the strongest attacks. With a constant wave of Symbol of Protection (and 6 seconds of Protection per symbol), Empowering Might, Sigils of Blood/Restoration/Water, Virtue of Resolve, and Omnomberry Creams, I can out-heal anything thrown at me. It’s not that I don’t enjoy the tanking aspect, but I find that there are a lot of skills that offer nothing in the build. It’s quite literally “press #1 to win.”

Try this:

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQRArd8elUgSDHHyNEf4Eh1DAeQ/VVIeXPgYEbIA-jUCBYfDim+IwEIRM1UQM3UZtYqIas6aYKXAqYLqWGA9xA-w

It doesn’t change much for the patch. I demolish warriors, rangers, and basically everyone else that can’t burst me down in the first few seconds.

You’re using AH and calling PVE boring, well… yeah… you’re using the easiest build. I mean that sincerely and don’t mean any disrespect by it. My point is if you’re almost impossible to kill (which with that build you are) then of course the game is going to get dull as you’re just slowly going through the content with very little risk other than dying of boredom.

Personally I’m working on a build for each dungeon now that we can swap so quickly. There’s tons of options. The one build that I did eventually decide on is now killed (boon duration) so really that opens up other optoins for me. Knight + Soldier runes is what I’m using right now, with a 0/15/0/30/25 trait setup, meaning I either get faster. the last trait in Honor is up in the air for me though, in some dungeons my group wants me tanky (guild group) so I can facetank things for them to keep them in one spot, so for that the 3k health isn’t a bad option. For other dungeons I basically don’t get hit with all the active defense options, for there I might drop honor and grab 10 points of zeal for 10% more damage.

Start messing around with things, stop playing it safe, and maybe it won’t be boring /shrug.

foofad.5162:

Try this:
It doesn’t change much for the patch. I demolish warriors, rangers, and basically everyone else that can’t burst me down in the first few seconds.

I’ll give it a shot I guess. Perhaps I’m just not playing offensive enough.

Jerus.4350:

You’re using AH and calling PVE boring, well… yeah… you’re using the easiest build. I mean that sincerely and don’t mean any disrespect by it. My point is if you’re almost impossible to kill (which with that build you are) then of course the game is going to get dull as you’re just slowly going through the content with very little risk other than dying of boredom.

I’m not playing an Altruistic Healing build and keeping it because it’s boring. I’m Using it because it offers (part of) the type of gameplay I enjoy. I like being able to face-tank enemies with the occassion avoiding maneuvers. The problem I have with the build is that it solely focuses on Hammer #1 and occasionally the few utilities I have. I rarely have to pop my healing or elite skill, I don’t touch my Virtues or my secondary weapon, and I never use Hammer #3-5 because there’s no function in PvE that is worth wasting the casting time when I could be applying Protection and Might faster.

I suppose what I’m getting at is that there should be a reason to use every ability in combat. I can never really find Virtues useful without going far enough into the appropriate trait line. None of the Virtues feel like there’s a huge benefit for the cooldowns each offers. Hammer #3-5 skills are all about control, and control means nothing in PvE. All bosses have stacks of Defiant making it impossible to play a controller/disabler. I don’t mind standing still and taking all of the hits so my team doesn’t have to, and doing in a game where aggression means nothing. That’s the gameplay I enjoy. What bothers me is the lack of variety in my build. I can switch my utilities for when the situation calls for it, but it never impacts my build enough to rely on those utilities.

EDIT: Gave that Meditation build a shot. No change. It doesn’t matter how many blinds, blocks, and teleports I have, Guardian just seems to melt under waves of conditions or can’t dish out enough damage to take down any competent bunker.

Time to start grinding a warrior….

Viralseed.9362:

EDIT: Gave that Meditation build a shot. No change. It doesn’t matter how many blinds, blocks, and teleports I have, Guardian just seems to melt under waves of conditions or can’t dish out enough damage to take down any competent bunker.

Guardian Damage is not the issue you need to overcome: WvW Med Video

It’s staying on target and using blinds properly.

And that vid is just to show damage… and is in all exotics, no Leg/Asc outside of my GS…. cuz i h8 pve.

Amins.3710:

Guardian Damage is not the issue you need to overcome: WvW Med Video

It’s staying on target and using blinds properly.

And that vid is just to show damage… and is in all exotics, no Leg/Asc outside of my GS…. cuz i h8 pve.

Well you, sir, definitely make it look easy. I’m not going to blame the fact that I was in structured PvP at the time and the statistics there vary from other areas of the game. It’s more like that I just suck. It just feels like my Blinds and Blocks don’t do much of anything and that a few conditions just eat away at what little health I have. I can stay on target relatively easy except Mesmers that cloak. I always lose them. I watch my cooldowns and make proper use of my Meditations to insure that I can get health back when necessary.

I still feel like ArenaNet has a funny sense of humor about what kind of defense the Guardian possesses without traits to combat the low health pool. I really wish that Guardians had at least one bunker build comparable to other professions. I wonder if Healway would suit those needs… I at least have the armor set lying around somewhere.

Again, impressive work. I could only hope to do as well as you.

It looks like conditions bother you a lot They bother me as well. My solutions are 3 shouts with PoV, Melandru Runes and -40% condi duration food, Absolute Resolution trait, Generosity and Purity sigil.

If you want to practice blinds and blocks, don’t use meditation build. Use the shouts instead. The stability, protection, and vigor will give you more opportunities to learn. Med build melts faster.

xFireize.6318:

It looks like conditions bother you a lot They bother me as well. My solutions are 3 shouts with PoV, Melandru Runes and -40% condi duration food, Absolute Resolution trait, Generosity and Purity sigil.

If you want to practice blinds and blocks, don’t use meditation build. Use the shouts instead. The stability, protection, and vigor will give you more opportunities to learn. Med build melts faster.

Yeah, I’ve played a few round of PvP as a Healway, and I did a far better job than a burst Meditation build. Granted, I don’t have access to food items (so I had to deal with Runes of the Soldier instead), but it was much easier. I could bunker fairly well against multiple opponents, but I would run into one or two that could burst me down if I wasn’t careful. I felt as if I could do better as a player and not that the profession could be better, so that’s good. I may play around with it a bit more and try to find something that I can enjoy playing. I think I need a better secondary weapon set and quite possibly better sigils, but I can safely say I’m enjoying PvP more.

I run a full on glass cannon build in tPvP. 10/30/30/0/0 all meditations including healin skill with GS and Sc/F for group fights at mid. Let’s say I am doing very well and I eat necros in most 1v1 situations for breakfast. Due to the current condi meta I am running purity sigil on one weapon set. It’s about the strongest guardian build I have seen so far but then again I am just r40.

What I can’t understand is why you’re complaining about guardians in pve. Okay, we only have one viable build which is obals meta DPS but it’s so much fun to play! You are essential to high level fractal runs! I am constantly changing out my utilities (from a pool of about 6-7) and I have to use them consciously or else I might be the reason why an encounter goes horribly wrong. For example something as easy as harpies on 49 requires the guardian to watch his party since without chaining stability reflects blocks and weapon skills such as blind/projectile absorb your party mates will be sent flying off the platforms. It’s nothing major and certainly not an unbelievable challenge but it’s the kind of active play style I enjoy about this build. Elements lists have a large variety of builds they can use but they all revolve around nailing your rotation. It’s somewhat less dynamic in regards to reacting to enemy skills and watching the rest of the party and more about adapting your rotation to the encounter to hit the sweet spot between max might and fury and dealing max DPS (while not dying).

All in all I think you should stop running that face tanking build if you’re bored of the class. Who cares about build diversity in pve if our meta build is actually interesting and dynamic.

In tPvP there’s actually a number of builds although I think that’s true for every class. At least from a guardians perspective it requires nailing every one of your utilities and weapon skills or you will melt under the condos.

Just my humble two cents though.

I was hoping to start playing again but am in the same boat as the op. Nothing at all added to enhance gameplay.

Viralseed.9362:

xFireize.6318:

It looks like conditions bother you a lot They bother me as well. My solutions are 3 shouts with PoV, Melandru Runes and -40% condi duration food, Absolute Resolution trait, Generosity and Purity sigil.

If you want to practice blinds and blocks, don’t use meditation build. Use the shouts instead. The stability, protection, and vigor will give you more opportunities to learn. Med build melts faster.

Yeah, I’ve played a few round of PvP as a Healway, and I did a far better job than a burst Meditation build. Granted, I don’t have access to food items (so I had to deal with Runes of the Soldier instead), but it was much easier. I could bunker fairly well against multiple opponents, but I would run into one or two that could burst me down if I wasn’t careful. I felt as if I could do better as a player and not that the profession could be better, so that’s good. I may play around with it a bit more and try to find something that I can enjoy playing. I think I need a better secondary weapon set and quite possibly better sigils, but I can safely say I’m enjoying PvP more.

Give scepter a try if you haven’t in tPVP, personally hadn’t really given it a shot till last night, and pretty happy with it. Lead the other player with smite, toss chains right after, swap to GS, leap for blind/movement, then whirl right in their face as the immobility wears off. And being a range weapon it allows you to do something from a distance. I love my sword so i’m a little conflicted but scepter is quite nice and worth a try if you haven’t =).

Veydar.5017:

I run a full on glass cannon build in tPvP.

And that’s awesome. I tried it and can’t manage, but I’m probably just overlooking something.

Veydar.5017:

What I can’t understand is why you’re complaining about guardians in pve. Okay, we only have one viable build which is obals meta DPS but it’s so much fun to play!

…

All in all I think you should stop running that face tanking build if you’re bored of the class. Who cares about build diversity in pve if our meta build is actually interesting and dynamic.

But this is the problem. We have 65 traits, 4 healing skills, 20 utilities, and 3 elite skills. We also have access to dozens of runes and armor stat combinations. There shouldn’t be one viable build. PvE feels so watered down because of build diversity that it effectively removes the ability to have diverse builds. ArenaNet needed to ensure that Berserker builds had enough survivability to play in PvP that they ultimately made the game too easy to play. I play an Altruistic Healing bunker because, give the best scenario, any skill I use becomes a counter to something in combat. Knocked down? Use Signet of Judgment. Group CC? Stand Your Ground! The build I have works, and I can enjoy it if my allies know how it works. I just can’t help but feel that there could be so many more enjoyable builds if the game actually favored build variety as much as it was anticipated pre-launch.

Veydar.5017:

In tPvP there’s actually a number of builds although I think that’s true for every class. At least from a guardians perspective it requires nailing every one of your utilities and weapon skills or you will melt under the condos.

This is what I like. There is a strategy to builds in PvP. ArenaNet is doing a good job at this aspect, but I find it near impossible to last against specific builds if I don’t heavily specialize into countering it. Players should feel as if fighting such a character is a challenge and that the skill of the individuals is more important than the number of utilities they have to counter it.

I think its nearly impossible to create build diversity in any MMO in PvE. Its static content so players will always look for the most efficient way to deal with it. In most games there’s always a certain flavor of the month for PvE encounters. Theoretically you can play whatever build you like in PvE, you don’t have to adhere to the zerker meta down to the last detail. Plus, playing full berserker in PvE might be the easiest way to clear fotm but it still requires a certain level of individual skill. Anyone can survive in standard AHEM with PTV gear. The run might be terrible but no one would blame him or herself because they’re never dying! As a full zerk you have to have some knowledge of mitigating and dodging damage otherwise you’re gonna bite the dust constantly which is frustrating for newer players. Therefore I do believe that high risk high reward builds should always have a superiority over safer builds and that is totally the case in GW2. Bottom line here: I think there should be a very small number of viable builds while the majority of the traits etc. are for people who are less ambitious to have fun and just enjoy the game the way they want. Guardians only have one or maybe two of those so that might be a little short of optimal.

I’m not going to blame the fact that I was in structured PvP at the time and the statistics there vary from other areas of the game. It’s more like that I just suck. It just feels like my Blinds and Blocks don’t do much of anything and that a few conditions just eat away at what little health I have. I can stay on target relatively easy except Mesmers that cloak. I always lose them. I watch my cooldowns and make proper use of my Meditations to insure that I can get health back when necessary.

Now this is really not meant to be an offense but maybe you need more time and practice to fully appreciate what a meditation glass cannon can do. Especially the part where you complain about getting confused by cloaked mesmers makes you appear to be rather inexperienced in tPvP but feel free to correct me.

I suppose what I’m getting at is that there should be a reason to use every ability in combat. I can never really find Virtues useful without going far enough into the appropriate trait line. None of the Virtues feel like there’s a huge benefit for the cooldowns each offers. Hammer #3-5 skills are all about control, and control means nothing in…

Okay now this stretches things a little too far. Did you even try obals build or learn the meta build? You can’t seriously say that virtues are useless! Virtue of resolve when traited removes three conditions, virtue of justice when traited is a PERMA blind when killing squishy trash and now comes the grand finale virtue of courage negates an entire attack. This is so strong against enemies like Arch Diviner, Mossman etc. Have you ever done a serious AC run? Aegis+Protection followed by condi removal is the difference between Kohler being a walk in the park or a major pita.

I can switch my utilities for when the situation calls for it, but it never impacts my build enough to rely on those utilities.

You’re saying Wall of Reflection and Purging Flames don’t impact your build? Maybe you’re just getting carried by everyone else because a guardian who doesn’t remove conditions (AC), doesn’t bring reflects (everywhere but e.g. Malrona) and doesnt feel like aegis (everywhere) or stability (harpies, Leurent among others) affects his gameplay is really just a wasted party slot.

Your facetanking will a) fail completely in high level fractals and b) not help the party at all. You’re not really holding aggro, you’re not dealing significant enough damage so its really up to your party to do everything for you. I’d like to see you tank Arch Diviner or Fire Shaman in fotm 40+. Facetanking is really for people who unbind dodge and haven’t learned the value of damage mitigation. Okay I really apologize for the turn my post took but after going through your replies with more care there’s only one conclusion to be drawn: your lack of experience and knowledge is the reason for your perceived boredom of the guardian class. I was like that as well so I know how one can come to this conclusion but some of the things you said are really tempting me to throw you a lame l2p response – which would be uncalled for but still….

I can out-heal anything thrown at me. It’s not that I don’t enjoy the tanking aspect, but I find that there are a lot of skills that offer nothing in the build. It’s quite literally “press #1 to win.”

No its press 1 to stay alive while four people are getting you the shinies.