Guild Wars 2

Over 400 Replies and 15k views and not one word from a Mod or Dev?

Nice to see that ArenaNet cares.

Well, they already have our money so why should they care? (Yup, I went there.)

re-bind does not help with 2 weapon sets(or if you use mouse to activate skills)
GS for support is not possible anymore(heal from symbols)
i do not use GS anymore(cleric armor,cleric GS….)
so for support it is hammer time

My two cents:

1) Really disrupting to my gameplay to move the skills around.
2) No it is NOT easy to re-learn the new layout, re-train my brain and my muscle memory in my fingers.
3) My 1h sword has a ‘jump’ at #2, if you were going to move the 2h skills around, why not make the 2h ‘jump’ at #2 as well?
4) Allow us to move skills around in our skillbar PLEASE.
5) I don’t use my greatsword much anymore, it’s too frustrating.

I’m really not liking this change, even with weapon swapping (which i always do) i seem to spend a load of time on the GS just auto atacking more than anything.

I can’t believe they haven’t even bothered to respond to the compaints about the symbol traits and the GS sytmbol nerf.

The change in layout is really just a “reprogramming” exercise in our finger mashing — we’ll adapt to that eventually.

The change in symbol c/d is disappointing. The justification is based around retaliation. However the increased cooldown has other effects such as:

1. Reduces guardian DPS because the symbol pulses damage.
2. Reduces guardian Healing/Survivability because the symbol pulses healing (with traits)
3. Reduces combo finishers when soloing

So adjusting for retaliation had far reaching effects beyond just retaliation. It’s a bad way to compensate for that boon.

“We are moving towards retaliation being more of a counter to taking many hits rather than a general boon to keep up all the time. We also wanted to improve the combo finisher of the guardian”

My retaliation uptime(on everone near me) went up from ~50% -> 75%+(since i do not use GS anymore,but more finishers)
Edit: it is not my aim to get more retaliation,but it procs all the time now.

I gave them the benefit of the doubt and spent a while trying to get use to the changes to Greatsword.

It didn’t work, its not a matter of relearning, or getting use to the change, the new set up is just plain garbage.

The cooldowns clash with each other, you now spend an unacceptable duration auto attacking. You could probably take a micro nap in the amount of time it takes for a skill to roll off cooldown after the initial burst.

The skill rearrange was an unnecessary switch in a way that can’t even be properly corrected due to lack of player customized skill placement on bars. Rebinding keys is not a compromise or fix, as it rebinds all weapon sets.

The change did nothing to address the apparent issue with Retaliation up time, in fact change only served to increase the potential for continuous Retaliation up time while having a drastic and derogatory knock on effect for everyone using the Greatsword.

A single patch that changes a weapon of this magnitude seems drastic, I would be very interested in hearing the reasoning behind why Greatsword needed to be changed so much, so suddenly, as I have never seen a player say the Guardian Greatsword was too weak or too powerful.

My main is a Guardian and with all due respect to the idea of moving the skills around it’s very frustrating even after several days of trying to get used to the combo of keys I used to press and having to reach farther from WASD to hit 4 2nd in my combo when I used to hit 2 2nd in the combo. Please consider changing it back the way it was.

Just try reaching from D to the 4 key while in the middle of heavy combat on the Cursed Shore or in an Explorable Dungeon and you see what I mean. It’s much easier to reach from W to 2 for when you pop the skill. So Arenanet please seriously consider this request.

Well it’s nice to see Anet at least responded to the rangers on the 40ms issue and how they may look into again if it turns out the weapon isn’t as effective.

Now if only we could get a reponse here on what this change messed up in terms of symbol traits, symbol builds, the Zeal line in general with regards to the GS and symbols and the fact the new setup greatly increases spamming 1 on the GS.

I’m beginning to think they just don’t find what they messed up as an issue, or that it was infact intentional and that somehow the GS/symbol build was considered OP (despite not seeing a single thread/complaint on it being OP).

Yeah I agree with most of the commentors here. While initially feeling confused by the key binding I could eventually figure out a new way to play. (Seems that I don’t use the leap to finish like most people I use it to start so laying down a symbol while I’m not even in agro is a huge waste of 20 seconds now). But what does bother me is the idea that my guardian is super boring with the great sword now.

I haven’t played any Guild Wars 2 since this last update and I might not play my guardian until something here is resolved. Since that’s my main character I don’t really see my self playing my alts because they are such low levels. I’ve been with Arena net since before the launch of Prophecies because I had a friend who worked there but they are about to lose me here. Sounds dramatic I know but the game isn’t fun like it was a week ago.

My main has lost the will to live.

I think they are trying to figure out how to fix their massive ef-up before giving us an answer. seriously some guardians crafted legendaries only for pve and then this happens lol.

“Sounds dramatic I know but the game isn’t fun like it was a week ago.”

That pretty much summarizes my thoughts on it. Staff is now the only remaining weapon that makes me even want to play this class at all, and it’s simply not all that viable outside of a group situation.

Guess it’s simply time to wait and see what happens, and continue toying with alts.

What bugs me is that they see we are upset and do not even respond. Any answer would be appreciated – from “Quit qq and ltp” to “We are looking into it”…

Agreed, legendde. It’s been days.
Any sort of reaction would’ve been massively appreciated, regardless of the content.

Changing things on so big a scale is a massive risk. And they were willing to take it, as they have so often in the past with Guild Wars. Both for the good, and the bad. Now this one is received with massive negativity. So many people commenting with complaints but also with keen suggestions, I hope they’ll soon make use of it.
It’s not as if setting up these forums and the expenses of maintaining said forums were done in vain… right?

I agree with the above comments. Can we get some kind of statement on this? I get you guys are working hard on the game but putting out a two sentence response won’t take that long and would at least give us an idea on whether or not the devs are taking our opinion into consideration in all this.

There is one thing that i dont understand, why there are PVP players that simply throw crap to player that dont like the GS change.

Yeah i agree with all the pve player that are annoyed by this change, i play a GS\ mace\shield support guardian for dungeons. -3 gs simbols per minute are equal to a loss of regen, damage and condition cleansing, and when you are facing 10 or 15 mobs in a row this can be really a mess! this is the thing PVP player dont count.
In dungeons you cant simply skip a row of enemy, in WvW if you see a zerg, you can flee, but for dungeons you have for most of the time ONE way to go when you have chosen your path, and a nerf on damage, support or defence , can be really really annoying.

So think before say:

“hey you lost 3 simbols, but you gain one leap, stop cry and adapt”,

because pvp and pve are really different things, and anyway guardian ret builds still exists, so this modification dont hurt pvp playstile but for support simbols builds that want a bit more damage, this is a mess.

and sorry for my crappy english ^^"

Changes made to Greatsword by Patch

The stated goal of the Greatsword nerf was essentially to nerf Retaliation builds. So, in order to nerf Retaliation builds the following changes were made to the Greatsword:

GS #2 Whirling Wrath: No change, still a 10sec Cooldown
GS #3 Leap of Faith: Cooldown down to 15secs from 20secs
GS #4 Symbol of Wrath: Doubled Cooldown from 10secs to 20secs

While I am mildly miffed at the rearrangement of the skill order following these changes (as weapon skills are organized in order of Cooldown on your hotbar) that is NOT my complaint.

THE PROBLEM IS HERE

The nerf to Symbol of Wrath on the Greatsword did NOT nerf Retaliation builds as intended.

The nerf to Symbol of Wrath on the Greatsword did nerf SEVERAL OTHER builds that utilized that symbol.

Breakdown of Negative Effects

Symbol of Wrath was previously on a 10 second cooldown, exactly the same as Whirling Wrath. This allowed a Greatsword Guardian to branch into several builds and varying combat options.

If you wanted to deal a hefty amount of AoE damage, then the Greatsword was your go-to weapon. Between the Symbol of Wrath and Whirling Wrath the Greatsword let the Guardian be an AoE damage-dealing machine. This simply isn’t possible like it was before, as a Guardian simply cannot get the same damage output in the same time-frame thanks to the increased cooldown.

This isn’t only about the loss of damage though. The Greatsword also provided BUILD DIVERSITY/VERSATILITY by having a symbol in it’s weapon skillset and some synergy in the Zeal trait line. Unfortunately, all symbol-based trait builds that utilized the Greatsword took a huge and UNNECESSARY hit this patch:

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath as a large AoE (by traiting for increased radius) in conjuction with other Guardian AoE’s (such as Purging Flames) for great AoE damage, you could do that.

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath to heal yourself/allies (by traiting for symbol healing) and thus provide AoE support, you could do that.

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath primarily as a damage-dealer and way to apply Vulnerability, you could do that (by traiting into the Zeal line).

If you wanted to use the Symbol of Wrath to chain with other weapon Symbols you could do so readily, as the Greatsword symbol had a cooldown that would typically be ready to go on weapon-swap if you cycled between a Mace or a Staff as your other symbol weapon.

Basically, the Greatsword previously had a reliable AoE symbol that would be up every fight, would help with your damage output, could catch many enemies in it (if you traited for increased symbol radius), could heal yourself and allies (if you traited for symbol healing), could apply Vulnerability to foes (if you traited for that via the Zeal line), could do increased damage (again, if you traited high enough into the Zeal line), and could be chained or used in tandem with other symbols very readily.

Yeah, the Greatsword can still do those things…but now it’s every 20 seconds. In the meantime, you’re practically stuck spinning with Whirling Wrath, using Leap of Faith 5 seconds sooner than you previously would, and then auto-attacking the rest of the time while you wait for the now abhorrent cooldowns of the Greatsword’s main damage-dealing skills.

Closing/Summary

The Greatsword gave build variety and versatility. With this unnecessary nerf the Greatsword has become only a tool for finishers, and the symbol synergy it did have has been so severely hit that it’s simply not worth using the Greatsword in any symbol/AoE builds anymore. Yeah, it CAN still be done…but it’s nowhere near as fun or as effective as it used to be, and there is no reason for it to be the way it is now (especially since the nerf was supposed to be to perma-Retaliation builds!).

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

ok i post here a suggestion that i made in this topic
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Feedback-Guardian-Greatsword-change-10-7/page/2#post403910

Well i agree whit all ppl that dont like this change on GS, but be creative.
I like the solution of SOW with 10 sec cd and another boon instead of retaliation, but in these days i was thinking that guardian is a “field control fighter” and simbols are the first thing he use to control his field.
so why dont add more simbols on the weapons skill?(longsword and scepter dont have one) for now we have Light simbols, why dont add dark simbols with different effect?so if a weapon have a slow light simbol, maybe can have a fast dark simbols (and viceversa) and dev’s can modify trait to have different sinergies for light, dark or all simbols.
ok its only and idea to have a really original guardian whit different builds and different playstiles.

Let’s Keep guardians voices alive!

The game has been out for a while now (not counting the BWEs) and now you decide to rearrange the skills on one weapon? I really love you guys and your game but this is a big “KITTEN”…

It would not be a problem IF and only IF you let us choose our keybinds for every weapon separately… The only reason I rolled a guardian was the greatsword. Yes i know I can rebind my keys so that I get old setup back.. but it affects ALL the other weapons as well. Hell, not everyone uses the default 1-5 keys just so you know!

It may seem like an unimportant thing, but when you play a game a lot, all these small things become really important…

I know I can cry all day long and you won’t change it back, but I would like to point out one thing: If you don’t give the user customizable interface then don’t ever change anything so easily/suddenly…

My point is: keybinds ARE impotant, the order of the skills ARE important because we have to use more than one weapon with the same keybinds.

I hate the fact that Anet want’s me to play a certain way. If i want to play just with the GS only and keep my 2nd weapon for support then that should be my choice. I payed $60 so I can play how I want to. If you want to play with some ones head re arranging things go to your grandma’s house and re arrange her closet. Stay away from my game.

Exemplar.1479:

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

Your post completely nails many of the fundamental issues with this change. It goes way beyond just the skill arrangement people. This change really hurts all symbol builds with the GS and GS diversity in general. Go Zeal line for offensive symbols on your GS? Even less useful than it was before this patch. Run a GS and Mace defensive combo like I was doing before this patch? Well my Mace is still fine but now my GS symbol healing has been cut in half (also the symbol skill keys no longer line up between those two weapons like they did, making the combo more awkward than before). For being a so called “retaliation” change this really ended up being more of a Symbols nerf. And I’m not even sure why because I’ve never seen a single person complain about them being OP to begin with.

Combine all Honor symbol traits into one and make it a grandmaster trait and call it a day.

I am just gonna roll with the punches people.

I agree, I spend more time auto attacking with the great sword now. Because CDs are down. When before the symbol filled in the gap between cooldowns. Also, the change completely neutered the Zeal trait tree. The extra damage to symbols and gaining the ability to apply vulnerability by using symbols is useless now.

Ketill.5218:

Exemplar.1479:

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

Your post completely nails many of the fundamental issues with this change. It goes way beyond just the skill arrangement people. This change really hurts all symbol builds with the GS and GS diversity in general. Go Zeal line for offensive symbols on your GS? Even less useful than it was before this patch. Run a GS and Mace defensive combo like I was doing before this patch? Well my Mace is still fine but now my GS symbol healing has been cut in half (also the symbol skill keys no longer line up between those two weapons like they did, making the combo more awkward than before). For being a so called “retaliation” change this really ended up being more of a Symbols nerf. And I’m not even sure why because I’ve never seen a single person complain about them being OP to begin with.

Thanks. I think a lot of Guardians are on roughly the same page since this patch change, in that most people see it as more of a detriment/unnecessary change rather than anything positive.

It really just comes down to the fact that the Symbol of Wrath change simply does NOT do what ArenaNet stated it was intended to do. Instead, it caused unneeded collateral damage to many other Symbol-based and Greatsword builds.

I really hope that ArenaNet takes a look at the suggestions and design-issues that are being voiced, because there are many that are being voiced VERY reasonably and logically. For them to ignore that would be a huge slap in the face.

I went through that “ignoring of the players” with Blizzard and Diablo 3. I’m hoping our collective player-base doesn’t have to go through that again in Guild Wars 2.

EDIT: I didn’t know how to properly quote, so I used a kittened method, but wound up discovering how to properly quote and so I edited for that.

Exemplar.1479:

Ketill.5218:

Exemplar.1479:

If Retaliation builds REALLY were the intended target, then work on Retaliation.

There is NO reason for the Symbol of Wrath cooldown to be THAT high. The nerf to the Greatsword has put a huge dent in the build variety and versatility it had previously, as well as hitting the damage and AoE ability of the weapon by more than any reasonable amount. On top of that, many symbol-boosting traits simply do NOT benefit the Greatsword like they used to, and this is a huge problem considering the Greatsword has a symbol in it’s skillset, and that the main trait line that boosts offensive symbol usage (Zeal) is tied to/provides traits to encourage Greatsword usage!

If the Symbol giving Retaliation is the problem, then simply make it give Fury or Might instead! I cannot believe that ArenaNet went through with this change without considering any of the ramifications it would have on other builds involving the Greatsword.

Your post completely nails many of the fundamental issues with this change. It goes way beyond just the skill arrangement people. This change really hurts all symbol builds with the GS and GS diversity in general. Go Zeal line for offensive symbols on your GS? Even less useful than it was before this patch. Run a GS and Mace defensive combo like I was doing before this patch? Well my Mace is still fine but now my GS symbol healing has been cut in half (also the symbol skill keys no longer line up between those two weapons like they did, making the combo more awkward than before). For being a so called “retaliation” change this really ended up being more of a Symbols nerf. And I’m not even sure why because I’ve never seen a single person complain about them being OP to begin with.

Thanks. I think a lot of Guardians are on roughly the same page since this patch change, in that most people see it as more of a detriment/unnecessary change rather than anything positive.

It really just comes down to the fact that the Symbol of Wrath change simply does NOT do what ArenaNet stated it was intended to do. Instead, it caused unneeded collateral damage to many other Symbol-based and Greatsword builds.

I really hope that ArenaNet takes a look at the suggestions and design-issues that are being voiced, because there are many that are being voiced VERY reasonably and logically. For them to ignore that would be a huge slap in the face.

I went through that “ignoring of the players” with Blizzard and Diablo 3. I’m hoping our collective player-base doesn’t have to go through that again in Guild Wars 2.

EDIT: I didn’t know how to properly quote, so I used a kittened method, but wound up discovering how to properly quote and so I edited for that.

Totally agree

Your all just really pathetic. 3 keys were swapped, its not that hard to readjust. Sure the CDs are different but “you now spend an unacceptable duration auto attacking” really? Dont make me laugh, if you dont want to auto attack you can turn it off.

Guardian in my eyes is a support class and a dam good one, too many people are focusing on keeping our dps competitive with the other professions which is just so stupid in so many ways. The GS is supposed to have ok dps but mostly your not going to have comparable dps to say a ranger or a warrior with a GS. Our role with every weapon is support.

I do agree that the “nerf” actually did very little to fix the issue of retaliation up-time, without modifying my GS playstyle at all i still have 100% upkeep on it.

@Mattius, if you don’t know what the actual issue people are having is, then don’t flame people and call them pathetic for complaining about it.

Read through the thread and see what the actual issue is, yes some people are focused on the order change – but that isn’t the big issue.

I’m not gonna explain it for you, as it’s been explained already in some very good and very clear posts.

Mattius. You kind of missed the point.
It’s not just a matter of the keybinds being swapped. It’s the whole fact ArenaNet wished to fix “A”, and to do so, they broke “B” and never even properly fixed “A”. As you yourself state, you can still upkeep retaliation 100% of the time – this was what they intended to fix, which evidently failed.

That means that their “nerf” is unnecessary and can be undone, so as to re-try to fix the retaliation issue in a matter that doesn’t dummy down the Greatsword to a 10 seconds of auto-attack styled weapon. Of course, we’ve all found ways around this nerf by now. I personally ditched my Greatsword entirely to find a substitute that’s fun to play, but that doesn’t mean I don’t miss having it as it was.

If nothing else, I stand by my point. ArenaNet should explain to us why they thought this better, and show some real numbers in explaining how they came to conclude such. It’d be nice to have at least that sort of back-up, so we can stop questioning them.

Can all people who don’t like this change with regards to the Symbol cooldown and what it affected postpost in the below thread instead.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Greatsword-Symbol-Retaliation-Change-7-10-12

Please leave the talk about order change out of it, we need to get the actual issue of the symbol change looked at.

I’d rather have a long cooldown skill on #2 since pressing 2 while running around with WASD just feels awkward…I don’t really see how it’s an improvement that abilities cooldown are related to the key number.

Raddic.5932:

So how does rearranging the skill order have anything to do with retaliation or combo finishers?

did anyone answer this? Because it makes no kitten sense. I havent logged in for a few days and really dont feel like it now

I know what the issue is, i didnt miss the point. There’s lots of people here that have said how close to impossible it is for them to readjust to 3 skills being swapped. If you want, you can go through and see the most of the childish whining is about that and how totally unplayable guardian is because GS was the “only viable weapon”.

Honestly im really glad of the change cause it will get lots of people to stop playing the profession that dont really belong on it. My build still has 100% upkeep on retaliation if i use a GS, most of the time i dont because i play it as a support role and dont really have a lot of dps. Perhaps the nerf was targeted at some specific builds that already have high dps and dont need retaliation being constantly up.

You cant have everything. A lot of people wants GW2 as an eSport which means lots of balancing and more features added to PvP but you cannot get that along with every single patch buffing without nerfing. Someone actually suggested buffing every other weapon so its inline with the GS instead of just nerfing GS. This whole discussion is a giant waste of time and id be much happier if ArenaNet focused on what really needs to be done in the game, which is what they are already doing and ignoring this. There has been 1 comment from them on the issue which basically was “get over it”, id advise you to do it.

So because you build have 100% ret uptime, this change no harm your playstile.

Well did you consider the fact that is retaliation the cancer of our profession?
And anyway, gw2 its not only a PVP game.

I dont specifically build towards that uptime and im not a PvP player. I usually use Mace/Focus with Staff but when im out doing map exploration i use a GS, on some events in Instances there is no need for a staff so i use my GS. Everything is situational and you need to be flexible which is why i carry a wide variety of weapons.

I suspect a lot of the players whining about the change used their GS most of the time, which isnt so much about game mechanics but their lack of ability to utilize the weapon swapping properly.

maybe you are overstimating yourself quite a bit or you are understimate others too much.
But only because YOU dont use GS often, doesnt mean that other have chosen a wrong profession or they aren’t able to swap weaps.
i use a full set of weapons (one bag only for weapons, and except for hammer that i really dislike) But GS change in this mood, its really annoying.

The 2 points being debated are “omg i cant cope with 3 buttons being changed” or the loss of dps. Guardian is way more of a support profession than most in game, if you want to go full GS dps, go and play a warrior. GS has some really cool abilities on a guardian but that doesnt mean that it should be viable as a top dps build just because people would like it to be. GS is still great for AoE, you get might from “auto attack” for every target you hit with the 3rd strike, the 5 ability is great for gathering up mobs, the symbol is very powerful and should be matched with a sizable CD. Everytime i have saw a GS dps guardian in an instance they do not have the trait which gives might when you crit, that means either im constantly meeting the minority of players or in general the profession is being played wrong/badly.

“The 2 points being debated are “omg i cant cope with 3 buttons being changed” or the loss of dps.”
—-
That is not the only 2 points being debated at all.

Mattius.2549:

The 2 points being debated are “omg i cant cope with 3 buttons being changed” or the loss of dps. Guardian is way more of a support profession than most in game, if you want to go full GS dps, go and play a warrior. GS has some really cool abilities on a guardian but that doesnt mean that it should be viable as a top dps build just because people would like it to be. GS is still great for AoE, you get might from “auto attack” for every target you hit with the 3rd strike, the 5 ability is great for gathering up mobs, the symbol is very powerful and should be matched with a sizable CD. Everytime i have saw a GS dps guardian in an instance they do not have the trait which gives might when you crit, that means either im constantly meeting the minority of players or in general the profession is being played wrong/badly.

So, this game have no trinity, but guardian its only for support? lol how funny.

“Support oriented” doesnt mean that a guardian player want to roll a full dps build (that i dont like anyway) have to roll warrior instead.
And GS simbol CAN BE TRAITED FOR SUPPORT BUILD TOO, but build that provide a mix of support and damage. (like some pug partyes require)

You gotta love it though, Anet gives the Guardian a trait line for DPS that deals with Symbols and has traits to boost the Greatsword DPS, they then nerf the GS Symbol to make it next to useless with that trait line – and then when we complain, some people say “if you want to go full GS dps, go and play a warrior”.

Hmm, perhaps in that case they should remove all the traits for the GS and remove the GS from the Guardian.

I love GS in general as an RPG weapon. GS should be the go-to weapon for hard-hitting offensive burst, but Guardian is now the second profession to have this weapon rendered incoherent and annoying to use.

Its damage, which was not considered OP, was nerfed by 25% overall by this, in addition to the utterly destroyed symbol trait synergy and the new “boring” playstyle. GS now leaves you auto-attacking and vulnerable with no damage compensation.

I STRONGLY suggest reverting the cooldown change, replacing retal from this symbol with might, and adjusting base damage for scaling considerations. This would leave the playstyle and synergy in-tact for GS and symbol lovers without leading to retal issues.

It reminds me very much of the way GS for mesmer has “devolved” over the course of the betas and into live. In beta it had a very clear purpose: single target kiting and power-based burst. It then “devolved” into half-kittened aoe, sub-par damage, and half-kittned kiting tools (e.g. no focus, a secondary weapon at best).

I like greatsword as a concept in rpgs, but I also dislike the concept of warriors. If I don’t see a viable greatsword build from mesmer or guardian, I will quickly lose interest in this game.

This is very bad for A-Net because i am their consumer archetype:
An MMO vet with tons of disposable income and little time to farm gold (this means GEM SALES DOWN THE TOITIE IF I LEAVE)

I would have rather lost retaliation off the symbol and picked up some other boon than the cooldown. The cd has negatively affected our use of combo fields and kittened many traits in the zeal line.

Mattius.2549:

The 2 points being debated are “omg i cant cope with 3 buttons being changed” or the loss of dps. Guardian is way more of a support profession than most in game, if you want to go full GS dps, go and play a warrior. GS has some really cool abilities on a guardian but that doesnt mean that it should be viable as a top dps build just because people would like it to be. GS is still great for AoE, you get might from “auto attack” for every target you hit with the 3rd strike, the 5 ability is great for gathering up mobs, the symbol is very powerful and should be matched with a sizable CD.

Clearly you didn’t read the posts that CLEARLY and POLITELY summarized the issues with the Symbol nerf in the patch.

I highly suggest you scroll up and read my post if you’re looking for an easy-to-find summary/example.

Basically, the Guardian’s ability to not-only deal damage with the Greatsword was nerfed, but our ability to SUPPORT with it as well. The doubled cooldown on the Symbol means:

1. Huge wait/less uptime for Symbol healing through traits
2. Huge wait/less uptime for applying Symbol Vulnerability through traits
3. Less incentive to utilize ANY Symbol-boosting trait with the Greatsword, including but not limited to: making the Symbol heal, increasing the duration, increasing the radius, or making it apply Vulnerability.

The increased cooldown is literally more oppressive when it comes to trying to utilize the Symbol of Wrath on the Greatsword in a supportive or cohesive manner with any symbol-based trait. There simply is no denying or getting around that.

To shove it all off as “omg i cant cope with 3 buttons being changed or the loss of dps” is a huge understatement and shows you have no understanding of what the actual effects of the nerf really did to Guardian build VARIETY and Greatsword *VERSATILITY.

In short: it isn’t about “lulz I can’t do l337 dps no moar”. Do everyone a favor and at least bother to READ what the issue is rather than rolling it under some troll-like nonsense.

There is no way in hell the “fix” improves combos.
Look at what GS did before:
2 = Combo field every 10 sec
3 = Spin finisher every 10 sec
4 = Leap finisher
5 = Spin finisher

What GS does now:

2 = Spin every 10 sec
3 = Leap
4 = Combo field every 20 sec
5 = Spin

I think when they say “improve” GS combos they really mean “nerf”, “confuse”, “ruin”, “annoy”….

Result of changes:
a) Skill slots ruined after just getting used to where they are (2,3,4 etc). Had to use a different weapon, or change keybinds in options and use GS only.
b) Annoyed to hell trying to learn the new rotation… because there isn’t one. The fact that GS actually had a nice skill rotation, and then it was taken away, means that whoever changed it is an idiot, and never played GS Guard, or was ordered to do so by someone who never played or hates GS guard, and wanted to make it clunky, unintuitive, confusing where before it was smooth, simple, sensible. Fail.
c) Heavily investing in weaopons other than GS. Done with GS.
d) Playing characters other than Gurad. Done with Guard.
e) Playing games other than GW2.

So I assume it’s been changed back and I can log in now.

juno.1840:

The change in layout is really just a “reprogramming” exercise in our finger mashing — we’ll adapt to that eventually.

Not before I get annoyed and log out.

The change in symbol c/d is disappointing. The justification is based around retaliation. However the increased cooldown has other effects such as:

1. Reduces guardian DPS because the symbol pulses damage.
2. Reduces guardian Healing/Survivability because the symbol pulses healing (with traits)
3. Reduces combo finishers when soloing

So adjusting for retaliation had far reaching effects beyond just retaliation. It’s a bad way to compensate for that boon.

The retaliation field is pretty much useless. I kept using it but nothing would happen. I suppose if you were in the middle of 10 mobs who did tons of damage and had low health… you could pop this skill and the mobs would damage themselves some, and then you would die. Sounds awesome.

Ret field its not useless, its really strong.
And the fact is that many of the simbol build users, are agree to strip away retaliation from SOW, to have a more fast simbol. (a fair exchange)

Remember people, if your going to do a big post about the Symbol changes, please be sure to copy and paste it in the thread in my sig dedicated to the Symbol change and what it did.

It would seem that ArenaNet’s strategy at this point is simply to ‘wait until this goes away and everybody adjusts.’

I don’t think they understand the magnitude of the problem, or the degree of upset that apparently a lot of players who play Guardians are feeling. This problem is not going to ‘go away on it’s own for me.’ I have no intention of ‘adjusting’. I find ANet’s silence on this issue insulting.

My Guardian is on the shelf until this is resolved. I do not intend to purchase anything further until this is resolved. I’m not advocating this path, necessarily, for anyone else — but at the same time I do want ANet to understand the depth of the problem.

I consider Guardian as it relates to Greatsword, and the larger issue of Retribution to be broken, and the last word we got from the development team is that they intend to
break it further rather than respond to their customers.

I’m fed up. My milk has been soured. I can no longer be an advocate for this game in good conscience as ‘next generation’ or ‘innovative’ or ‘groundbreaking’ to me, this seems like, same ol, same old, frustrations…

Thank you all, for framing the issue for me and showing me all sides. It’s helped me see this for what it is — a horrible customer service failure.

TenzKu.1509:

Thank you all, for framing the issue for me and showing me all sides. It’s helped me see this for what it is — a horrible customer service failure.

This was mentioned in an Interview(i think it was between Eric Flannum and Colin):
“- Guild Wars 2 has an extremely large live team to support this game (in form of support and new content). The game is a service and ArenaNet aims to provide the best service possible.”

I think most people are confused by what Arenanet means by ‘best service possible’

I think Arenanet has succeeded in providing the best service possible.

The best service includes:
Boxing Gloves
Primeval Armor Skin
Fine Transmutation Stone
Black Lion Merchant Express
Magic Find Booster
Bag Slot Expansion

The best service excludes:
Replying to over 450 posts of massive negativity towards a specific nerf
Banning botters/cheaters/goldsellers/hackers
Restoring Hacked accounts
Ensuring you get your Gems when you buy them
Fixing bugs
Ensuring balance (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-udk3CEtc7E)

Arenanet’s service is at 100%. I would even say 110%

I haven’t watched the forums in a while, but a quick search seems like ArenaNet has not responded to this and other threads at all; confirmed?