Guild Wars 2

Guardian
Support builds for guardians have fallen out of favor due to the strength of the support builds on other professions. In this update, we have looked at a few core skills on staff, mace, and shouts to help support guardians retain viability.

Detonate Orb of Light: The heal scaling of this skill has been increased by 20% in PvP only.
The healing of this skill was a bit low, considering the difficulty of hitting multiple allies. We have increased the heal scaling to better reward players who use this ability well.
Empower: Increased the base healing of this skill by 100% in PvP only.
Empower did not offer enough reward given the risk of a stationary 2.5-second channel, so we have significantly increased the healing granted by this skill.
Faithful Strike: The heal scaling of this skill has been increased by 100% in PvP only.
“Hold the Line!”: The protection duration of this skill has been increased from 4 seconds to 6 seconds in PvP only.

ANet can… u guys do something for class out of pvp as well?? i would like to play my guardian in WVW again since i only use mace shield / staff with shouts…

the problem on guardian core support is not only in pvp.

What a delicious bunch of changes. This makes the staff quite a lovely healing weapon now imo. I’m really glad that they seem to be pushing healer guardians, especially in PvP.

Won’t touch the mace with a 15 foot pole though, at least not for the purposes of support, but it’s pretty good for bunkering now I suppose.

I love the hypocrisy of saying Ele doesn’t have enough blast finishers when the entire guardian profession has 3, and one of them on a spirit weapon.

RabbitUp.8294:

I love the hypocrisy of saying Ele doesn’t have enough blast finishers when the entire guardian profession has 3, and one of them on a spirit weapon.

i rather have something else worked on the class to work decently outside pvp, the stats sacrifice to work on support or bunkerish builds is agressive and we achieve some strange and weak support, it kills the guardian actually.
Ooutside pvp guardian with mace shield loose all damage to do 800 damge and 900 to arround 1k crits on zerkers, the support is still low nor the class can feel sturdy to be in pair with the stats sacrifice.

Faithful Strike is ~1k healing, Staff 2 explosion is ~2k, Empower is ~4k. How is it working for you guys so far? What builds would you make to work with the changed skills and is it even worth playing support?
I tried Symbolic with core Guard and Honorable Staff trait, running Sword/Shield+Staff. Seemed okay, but not sure if it’s actually good.

Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.

YuiRS.8129:

What builds would you make to work with the changed skills and is it even worth playing support?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Trying-to-improve-my-support-guard/first#post6624782

Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.

The OP have only ctrl+C ctrl+V the guardians changes , don’t have claimed nothing.

Obtena.7952:

Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.

care to explain that? i think i didnt get it cause that is what i was saying due the amount of stats required sacrificed for the support role….. or im translating that sentence.. wrongly?

YuiRS.8129:

Faithful Strike is ~1k healing, Staff 2 explosion is ~2k, Empower is ~4k. How is it working for you guys so far? What builds would you make to work with the changed skills and is it even worth playing support?
I tried Symbolic with core Guard and Honorable Staff trait, running Sword/Shield+Staff. Seemed okay, but not sure if it’s actually good.

Interesting that values are arround the ones i can pull with my build outside pvp, runing the 10% healing output sigil + trait with 24-27% heal output, with arround 800-1k healing power.

RabbitUp.8294:

I love the hypocrisy of saying Ele doesn’t have enough blast finishers when the entire guardian profession has 3, and one of them on a spirit weapon.

Sums this balance patch up basically.
The changes they made where good but sadly only pvp. Hope they unsplit some of the buffs.

Obtena.7952:

Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.

He just copied that from the official patch notes, not that the devs said guardians are retaining viability because of support. They said they’re buffing some support stuff on guardians to help their support builds continue to be viable, and they are viable (if not more so), even if this clown community isn’t entirely aware of it.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Obtena.7952:

Guardians don’t maintain viability because of support, contrary to the OP’s claim.

He just copied that from the official patch notes, not that the devs said guardians are retaining viability because of support. They said they’re buffing some support stuff on guardians to help their support builds continue to be viable, and they are viable (if not more so), even if this clown community isn’t entirely aware of it.

@mage it needs to be better due how game is being played, dont forget that builds do more damage on WvW due food and more stats, and it looks like WvW guard lack compared with the pvp performance.
When u want to reach faithfull strike your need to bail out of melee due red circles bomb incomming , or targets are already ded :|

play hammer support with consecration imo is out of question….its feels very clunky.

Aeolus.3615:

@mage it needs to be better due how game is being played, dont forget that builds do more damage on WvW due food and more stats, and it looks like WvW guard lack compared with the pvp performance.
When u want to reach faithfull strike your need to bail out of melee due red circles bomb incomming , or targets are already ded :|

play hammer support with consecration imo is out of question….its feels very clunky.

Healing is stronger because of food too though. :>
And that’s why the mace’s auto-attack is garbage supportively in any serious situation, because who on earth is gonna wait in a 180 radius next to an enemy while you finish your 3-4 second combo for a pitiful 1k heal. Druids already have trouble healing in melee range without having to have an enemy right next to them to finish a combo. I honestly can’t comprehend why some people think the mace is a better healing weapon than the staff; it has its strong points, but allied healing is not one of them.

Fashion Mage.3712:

I honestly can’t comprehend why some people think the mace is a better healing weapon than the staff; it has its strong points, but allied healing is not one of them.

Anet is among those people, judging by the traits. And it’s not like staff is that much better at healing anyway.

I honestly hope they rework mace into a self-defensive weapon next xpac.

RabbitUp.8294:

I honestly hope they rework mace into a self-defensive weapon next xpac.

I use the mace to kite hands on Deimos. So there’s that.

Though this coming week, I’m going to be trying to DPS with Longbow while kiting so mace might still be trashy.

RabbitUp.8294:

Anet is among those people, judging by the traits. And it’s not like staff is that much better at healing anyway.

I honestly hope they rework mace into a self-defensive weapon next xpac.

Well, the mace has 180 radius sustained melee healing, and the staff has a projectile AoE heal and 600 radius burst healing which means you can actually hit your allies with the healing outside of WvW zerg blobs. With the recent buffs to the staff’s healing it’s even better.

I hope they rework it to that too. The way it’s designed makes it much more suited to be a tanking weapon.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Aeolus.3615:

@mage it needs to be better due how game is being played, dont forget that builds do more damage on WvW due food and more stats, and it looks like WvW guard lack compared with the pvp performance.
When u want to reach faithfull strike your need to bail out of melee due red circles bomb incomming , or targets are already ded :|

play hammer support with consecration imo is out of question….its feels very clunky.

Healing is stronger because of food too though. :>
And that’s why the mace’s auto-attack is garbage supportively in any serious situation, because who on earth is gonna wait in a 180 radius next to an enemy while you finish your 3-4 second combo for a pitiful 1k heal. Druids already have trouble healing in melee range without having to have an enemy right next to them to finish a combo. I honestly can’t comprehend why some people think the mace is a better healing weapon than the staff; it has its strong points, but allied healing is not one of them.

Sounds like mace was never ment to work on a bursty game still mace as a bit of damage denial, and when paired with shield with ur staff is on CD, mace/shield has 2 heals on blocks(when traited) that can heals plus 2 aegis for damage denial, and dome burst also heals.

Staff 2nd skill is unrealiable to heal since the start of the game, it bugs alot, im using it to heal @ melee range allies to avoid making it bug, with a cast and burst right after cast, wich is stupid.

So that left us with only 1 skill as decent to heal with staff, Empower, that roots the caster, wich makes u a easy target, its a situational heal, i use more the 7k-9k heals from the DH f2 than the empower… wich i need to predict allied movements to get them healled -.-", or it will miss the heal if i dont land on same or closest 2 cells near that ally….

sorry the bad engrish, nowadays every one is expect in typoneese.

Aeolus.3615:

Sounds like mace was never ment to work on a bursty game still mace as a bit of damage denial, and when paired with shield with ur staff is on CD, mace/shield has 2 heals on blocks(when traited) that can heals plus 2 aegis for damage denial, and dome burst also heals.

Staff 2nd skill is unrealiable to heal since the start of the game, it bugs alot, im using it to heal @ melee range allies to avoid making it bug, with a cast and burst right after cast, wich is stupid.

So that left us with only 1 skill as decent to heal with staff, Empower, that roots the caster, wich makes u a easy target, its a situational heal, i use more the 7k-9k heals from the DH f2 than the empower… wich i need to predict allied movements to get them healled -.-", or it will miss the heal if i dont land on same or closest 2 cells near that ally….

sorry the bad engrish, nowadays every one is expect in typoneese.

The blocks are nice. I don’t actually think the mace is a bad weapon, and I especially don’t think the shield is a bad weapon. It’s just that melee-range support is only okay if it’s near instantaneous and doesn’t need any other requirement to work (like being at the end of a combo). A dying ally isn’t going to wait till you get into melee range to someone right next to them and then finish the combo. It’s why Protector’s Strike is good for support but the rest of the mace isn’t.

Doesn’t really bug that often for me, but it does happen occasionally. I just feel like the projectile should be unblockable because it gets reflected easily when trying to heal allies.

I still think empower needs more range honestly, at least in pvp. I think the root is an interesting downside to the skill, it’s just stupid that you have to root yourself within 600 range specifically. Not that I really mind, but I also think it’s kind of ridiculous that it currently has the same cast time as Signet of Courage.

well mace heals could be done in the 3 atacks, or at least on the 2nd and 3rd one:
->mace autos 150 -300 -550
->mace symbold needs to cast faster or in exchange a better regen/heal pulse.i
->mace 3, bugs when u jump :P.. so while moving dont jump or will bug..

Indeed empower roots 2seconds for 600 3k heal and migh, range increased to 900-1k would be really nice tho.

Staff 2nd skill needs to be soemthing else.. yes for me its somethign i cant use at over 400-600 range, theres arround 75% chance will bug.

Mace autos should be something stronger some classes have very strong autos @ offensive … that would be really good support weapon when some one needs to pull to melee range instead of cast stability like a maniac and try to pull range so u can keep spamming empower :\.

Guard with that should still be easilly taken down when vs 2 players so i dont see it OP, make some atrition but not a stupid bunker like some classes can do.

edit.. and shield should be on virtues instead of hammer :P, that dome could be boosted(in duration) by sanctuary/consecrations, would give alot of sinergy for support defense, since most player with hammer actually run meditation that is on the shied line.

And with this guardian would win another choice and playstyle, and due how this game works would be very balanced.

RabbitUp.8294:

I honestly hope they rework mace into a self-defensive weapon next xpac.

That would be a) awesome and b) a rather trivial task. Changing #3 into a continuous block for ~2 seconds would have a big impact.

Force of Will’s outgoing healing effectiveness needs to more than double. Maybe then will bunker gerdien be a thing in competitive spvp :p

Might be kind of broken getting 50~% outgoing healing from a single trait with high vitality, but I wouldn’t complain.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Might be kind of broken getting 50~% outgoing healing from a single trait with high vitality, but I wouldn’t complain.

it isnt, i get arround 25-27% and is awfull, u dont notice the boost….. even with 30k hp its useless trait.
U will also need:
->Food with healing power and 10% outgoing heal
-> Sigil with 10% outgoing heal
-> close to 1k healing power

Even with those, the output support is less than the pvp build, mace heals arround 800, and most guardian heals, the quoficients are to low for the boosts do anything.

Just look at the heal modifiers rev is getting.

Force of Will I think is ok, could be 1.5% per 100, but more importantly, I want Signet of Mercy to be a 15% heal modifier. 180 healing power is trash.

Aeolus.3615:

ANet can… u guys do something for class out of pvp as well?? i would like to play my guardian in WVW again since i only use mace shield / staff with shouts…

the problem on guardian core support is not only in pvp.

Are you kidding me? Guardian is the MOST COMMON profession in WvWvW. At least here in the top tiers of EU. It is not unusual to see that one third of entire zergs are made out of shout guardians. If any profession needs toning down for WvWvW, guardian comes to my mind 1st. It does NOT make any sense to buff guardian for WvWvW, because soon we could see almost everybody there just playing a guardian, while other professions get more and more ignored.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Aeolus.3615:

ANet can… u guys do something for class out of pvp as well?? i would like to play my guardian in WVW again since i only use mace shield / staff with shouts…

the problem on guardian core support is not only in pvp.

Are you kidding me? Guardian is the MOST COMMON profession in WvWvW. At least here in the top tiers of EU. It is not unusual to see that one third of entire zergs are made out of shout guardians. If any profession needs toning down for WvWvW, guardian comes to my mind 1st. It does NOT make any sense to buff guardian for WvWvW, because soon we could see almost everybody there just playing a guardian, while other professions get more and more ignored.

so keep guardian underperforming in some spots?

u guys still stacking lots of guardians??? thats the past already… u guys have better options.
And btw its not a that a big buff to guardian…

if they improved force of will to 2-3% would be a really good help since guards sacrifice alot to get a decent value o healing power, and the build itself.

RabbitUp.8294:

Just look at the heal modifiers rev is getting.

Force of Will I think is ok, could be 1.5% per 100, but more importantly, I want Signet of Mercy to be a 15% heal modifier. 180 healing power is trash.

Agreed, that’d be really nice.

I don’t think the problem is that Force of Will offers too little outgoing healing (though I guess it could use a tiny bit more), I think the main problem is that guardians just don’t have any way to get more outgoing healing outside of Force of Will. If Signet of Mercy offered 15% outgoing healing and the staff trait offered 15% outgoing healing instead of the meh boon duration, then I think that’d provide enough potential sources of outgoing healing. I suppose there’s also the possibility that the new elite spec will offer some kind of healing boost, so I hope that happens.

Boon duration buff should be tied to who has virtues traited and not tied to when using staff skils only….
Overall the traits are messed up.. . and creating alot of conflict.

Maybe they only want meditations and traps to work, and consecrations with hammer on that line….. meh, while what matters on that line is the 20%CD on consecrations and the heals share or stability on f3.

The changes would definitely have to be separated between WvW and sPvP. I still feel the LB Nerf should have been exclusively WvW.