Guild Wars 2

So we got a feedback tread of Hammer going on, so I thought I’d make one for Sword too since I beleive it really needs to be fixed, even more than Hammer in my opinion, at least Hammer can help a lot on break bar damage.
While sword is a one hand weapon, what it gives is… really bad.
Keep in mind that I mostly PvE

Sword Auto attack, #1 and #2 are really just, boring, 2 absolutely boring slash that gives absolutely nothing but decent damage.
#3’s fan is dealing pretty good damage, but it also glitches a lot and misses a lot. On some enemies it just doesnt even work at all forcing you to switch weapon even though Sword would be a really good choice for the fight

Sword 2 is bad. I do understand that in PvP its interesting to have a teleport . But its damage are the equivalent of a little slap on the butt, it has that pretty bad delay to its stab.

Sword 3. God, tracking is awful, damage is okayish, I do beleive that its a loss of DPS over Auto attack, has a big cooldown, is really crappy at blocking projectiles in PvE.

So the fixes I have in mind

For auto attack, keep the damage the same, make #3 a cleave so it tracks and doesnt glitch as much. Maybe add a soft cc to the #1&2?

Sword 2 is pretty obvious in my opinion, make it faster and make it hit a bit harder so its not such a huge dps loss

Sword 3 I would make the glitchy projectile block an actual block. So it can synergize better with the couple blocking traits we have. And make the projectile faster or track better.

What do you guys think about that?

sword #3 doesn’t block projectiles.

Not meaning to rain on your parade but if we want any changes at all, we need to focus on one weapon, that being hammer. Hammer definitely needs the most work so we should prioritize using that thread until there are so many posts in there that anet can’t ignore it. Good idea though sword is a great def weapon already

Sword 3 destroys projectiles but I think it would be better if it blocked them instead to synergize , more with our blocking traits. Also it does need work, the tracking does suck for it and it roots you as well so you have to pull off a bunch of combos if you even want to think of using it, and if they have stability then gg because now you missed it.

The auto chain does need work as well and to be honest the attacks are a bit plain, seeing some cripple on there or additional burning would be nice.

You are right OP, sword needs a good touch as well (lots of guardian’s weapons and traits need to be updated but that will take months and years even).

Just what Timston said. We should keep the hammer thread on the surface for as long as it takes so that Karl or any other dev could see it and note it down so that we could anticipate for some changes in the future.
First things first, if we kept on throwing random feedback threads then we won’t do much, guardians need to focus on one goal first before moving on to the other.

As been said i also think we should focus on one weapon at a time and keep that thread floating until someone responds.

An other thing is that changes should adress all sorts of gameplay. From a purely pvp/wvw perspective sword is nice and the only change needed imo is that you should be able to move with no penalty while using skill 3 and that damage should be boosted so it has higher dps then aa.

Personally i would like skill 2 to be ground targeted or that it teleported in the direction the guardian is facing if no target is chosen, so it can be used as a mobility skill.

Maybe this is completely out there, but would it help to have sword 3’s projectiles pierce targets? While it wouldn’t add much damage-wise to a single target, it could allow for some interesting synergy with the Justice passive (more hits = more procs). Or maybe have the projectiles explode and hit adjacent targets on impact?

Just throwing ideas other than just “more damage” that might add some more depth to the weapon.

I definitely like the idea of it triggering a Block for projectiles instead of just destroying them outright.

AzureDragon.1482:

Maybe this is completely out there, but would it help to have sword 3’s projectiles pierce targets? While it wouldn’t add much damage-wise to a single target, it could allow for some interesting synergy with the Justice passive (more hits = more procs). Or maybe have the projectiles explode and hit adjacent targets on impact?

Just throwing ideas other than just “more damage” that might add some more depth to the weapon.

I definitely like the idea of it triggering a Block for projectiles instead of just destroying them outright.

I agree that it would be nice if we got alterations that didn’t simply involve damage buffs and rather focused around the overall utility of the skill and its subsequent synergy with other skills or traits.

What would be cool is if projectiles destroyed by zealot’s defense added to the amount of projectiles cast by the attack itself (so if you absorb 3 projectiles, you fire 3 more blades).

Bring on the rapid fire!

Reposting this from previous threads on the subject:

I think that the Sword really only needs simple changes to be in a good spot again:

Sword Wave:

1. Remove the “projectile” classification from the skill
2. Reduce the reach of the cone and instead make it wider to improve accuracy.

Fairly self-explanatory. Not having melee autos reflected, having better accuracy while maneuvering around targets, and being able to strike objects properly are all basic quality-of life fixes that will make using the Sword feel much more natural. Otherwise, this is already a good auto-attack that’s unique for having 5+ hits per chain.

Flashing Blade:

1. Apply the Blind instantly upon reaching your destination.
2. Grant 3 seconds of Fury to allies within a 240 unit radius after teleporting.

Instant-Blind at your destination makes it easier to use this skill as a defensive reaction and can help the Guardian make clutch defensive plays. Right-Hand Strength helps make the Sword a critical-focused weapon, so giving it some source of Fury without help from utility skills or Pack Runes makes sense.

I would ask for a short-duration Symbol at your destination that pulses Fury, but given the usual rate of balance changes, minimal-effort suggestions seem more realistic.

Zealot’s Defense:

1. Remove the root while casting
2. Change the projectile destruction to projectile blocking for better trait synergy.

As it stands, using this skill can sometimes leave you in a worse position against projectile users because it allows them to gain distance on you while you cast. If we can move while using the skill, that also helps mitigate the poor accuracy it suffers from as targets get farther away. Changing projectile destruction to blocking shouldn’t make a huge difference now that our block traits have all been nerfed, but more internal synergy is always nice.

I wouldn’t really ask for much else on the Sword at this point. It’s a unique multi-hitting weapon that can be used in both power and condition builds, and it’s not really weak so much as it’s suffering from quality-of-life issues. Fixing those issues and giving it a couple small buffs would stop most of the complaints about it and make it feel much better to use. Changes of this nature also wouldn’t contribute significantly to the power creep we’ve seen so much of recently, which makes them more practical as long-term fixes.

I really like your suggestions Soruju.
1. Sword used to be good specifically for the multi hit reasons and just needs a slight rework because of terrain bugs etc hurting it.
2. I like the idea of adding a symbol to sword (only if it hits) but I am not sure how balance will work, especially seeing the way tankbuilds are going in HoT a weapon with no symbol is pretty bad investment. Just adding blind and fury is also a good solution.
3. And if they could make third skill move at same speed as GreatSword Whirling Wrath I think it would feel natural. Instead of a whirl finisher it is a projectile finisher and instead of bolts in all directions we get bolts targeted and we could anticipate directions to keep them hitting moving opponents.

PS. To those saying we should focus on one weapon until that gets fixed you do not (in my opinion) understand how these forums work. We are not here to demand changes, and are entitled to get upset when they are overlooked, we are here to talk between ourselves and suggest changes. When it comes time to make weapon changes a dev will come and read though all the relevant and polite forums and make his own informed decisions. I will try to make a reference thread about this.

2 cents:

1. Change the auto to be a single melee hit on the third strike instead of a projectile.

2. Flashing blade a leap finisher and allowed to be used without a target that pushes you 600 units forward.

3. Blocks all attacks(This is probably too strong)

Arutha.9874:

I really like your suggestions Soruju.
1. Sword used to be good specifically for the multi hit reasons and just needs a slight rework because of terrain bugs etc hurting it.
2. I like the idea of adding a symbol to sword (only if it hits) but I am not sure how balance will work, especially seeing the way tankbuilds are going in HoT a weapon with no symbol is pretty bad investment. Just adding blind and fury is also a good solution.
3. And if they could make third skill move at same speed as GreatSword Whirling Wrath I think it would feel natural. Instead of a whirl finisher it is a projectile finisher and instead of bolts in all directions we get bolts targeted and we could anticipate directions to keep them hitting moving opponents.

PS. To those saying we should focus on one weapon until that gets fixed you do not (in my opinion) understand how these forums work. We are not here to demand changes, and are entitled to get upset when they are overlooked, we are here to talk between ourselves and suggest changes. When it comes time to make weapon changes a dev will come and read though all the relevant and polite forums and make his own informed decisions. I will try to make a reference thread about this.

Ya i find it stupid that other guardians are trying to shut down threads to help our class because they want to focus on one thing at a time. If there’s a problem with weapons we should address them all at once and continue doing so until there’s change, not just do one at a time.

So I just tried the raid for the first time (couldnt play for the last 2 weeks) and I must say, while all the other weapons where an option, sword was not even close to be there. I was not even close to consider it in my build!
With Hammer I can almost solo the CC bar of the guardians, LB GS offers good DPS, Scept Torch pffer good condi dps, Focus Shield offers good support, but I felt like sword has nothing for it.
Some higher numbers along all the stuff I mentionned really wouldnt hurt

I find it insulting that they managed to change the Revenant sword auto chain before HOT release due to complaints about the auto having a projectile that misses yet have left guardian sword chain alone despite complaints since the original launch.

If they would make the guardian sword chain into a true cleaving melee attack then it would be much better.
It would also be nice if the right handed strength trait in radiance caused critical hits with the sword to apply a 4-5 second bleed.

As for sword number 2 and 3, I would do the following changes.

Flashing Blade Teleport to your targets location blinding them and nearby enemies. Once you arrive drop a symbol of might.

Symbol of Might Pulses 3 times, each pulse does similar damage as symbol of protection, however each pulse grants 1 stack of might lasting 10 seconds.

&

Zealot’s Defense Assume a defensive sword stance & block And I mean block) incoming attacks (2 second duration) For each attack that is blocked counter attack by hurling a magic projectiles damage & burn your target. (damage is possibly lower then the first attack from auto attack chain, with a 1 second burn each)_

(projectiles should have a 700 range and be quite a bit faster then the current ones, as the current ones can be avoided by strafing)

You know how Sword Wave had those 3 little swords in the animation? Each of those swords is the focal point for a very small Wave like Wave of Wrath. They should be sized so that enemies are hit the same as they might be under the original Sword Wave (3 hits on center, 1-2 hits on edges)

Flashing Blade is a leap finisher

Zealot’s Defense becomes Symbol of Defense. 2s Symbol that destroys projectiles crossing the threshold. I’m not sure if I would want it still throwing blades, so just keep those TBD.

Boom, done.

Ghotistyx.6942:

You know how Sword Wave had those 3 little swords in the animation? Each of those swords is the focal point for a very small Wave like Wave of Wrath. They should be sized so that enemies are hit the same as they might be under the original Sword Wave (3 hits on center, 1-2 hits on edges)

Flashing Blade is a leap finisher

Zealot’s Defense becomes Symbol of Defense. 2s Symbol that destroys projectiles crossing the threshold. I’m not sure if I would want it still throwing blades, so just keep those TBD.

Boom, done.

Sword wave is already like that, we want this gone cause it keeps missing and glitching

FB, not really fixing it imo

Zeolot’s Defense sounds more like a nerf to me :/

Arken.3725:

3. Blocks all attacks(This is probably too strong)

SLOW DOWN ARKEN!!!!! That sounds too much like a Revenant level skill not a Guardian level skill.

Akijo.7395:

Sword wave is already like that, we want this gone cause it keeps missing and glitching

FB, not really fixing it imo

Zeolot’s Defense sounds more like a nerf to me :/

Sword Wave doesn’t act like that. They’re considered projectiles which means they can be absorbed by skills or terrain, reflected, and the like. Wave of Wrath cannot be reflected, ignores terrain, and is generally exactly what Sword Wave should be. This small change would fix all of Sword’s aa problems while keeping its unique benefits.

FB doesn’t need to be fixed, but the leap is almost necessary.

I’m a proponent of every weapon set having a Symbol. Symbol of Defense would trade the incredibly unreliable range for group support similar to Necro’s Corrosive Poison Cloud. Plus, you get the synergy from any of the symbol related traits.

These changes would give Sword a defensive role. Combined with Shield and WoR, you could become the ultimate in anti projectile. Get just a smidgen of oomph from FB, and Symbol of Defense would a dps increase over ZD, which isn’t compared to auto.

Ghotistyx.6942:

Akijo.7395:

Sword wave is already like that, we want this gone cause it keeps missing and glitching

FB, not really fixing it imo

Zeolot’s Defense sounds more like a nerf to me :/

FB doesn’t need to be fixed, but the leap is almost necessary.

I’m a proponent of every weapon set having a Symbol. Symbol of Defense would trade the incredibly unreliable range for group support similar to Necro’s Corrosive Poison Cloud. Plus, you get the synergy from any of the symbol related traits.

These changes would give Sword a defensive role. Combined with Shield and WoR, you could become the ultimate in anti projectile. Get just a smidgen of oomph from FB, and Symbol of Defense would a dps increase over ZD, which isn’t compared to auto.

Why is a leap almost necessary? I don’t understand. It could provide some interesting utility, I guess, but our only decent combo field is Purging Flames, and we’ve only got mediocre Light fields outside of that, so the mileage you would get out of this change would depend heavily on your group (and it would be a negligible buff for solo play). Also, unless you’re changing FB to a ground-targeted teleport, you’d have to set up the leap so that there’s a field somewhere directly between you and your target to get the effect. If we had stronger inherent combo fields available, that’d be one thing, but as it stands, a Leap finisher is a fringe benefit for the Sword. It doesn’t cater to anything the weapon already has and it doesn’t fix any notable problems.

Also, unless you mean for Symbol of Defense to be a ranged, ground-targeted ability, it doesn’t actually fix the main problem with Zealot’s Defense. If you need to stay in or behind the Symbol to stay safe from projectiles, that just gives ranged attackers the ability to gain distance on you while you’re defending.

The Necro’s Corrosive Poison Cloud works for a couple reasons. One big one is that it’s ground-targeted. You have the flexibility to throw it down around either yourself (if someone’s +1’ing you while you fight someone else in melee) or around a ranged attacker (if you’re dueling or in a teamfight), and if you put it down around them, you’re free to continue closing the gap while they have to re-position. CPC also pushes them to kite around you, rather than simply retreating, since they need to form a new line of sight with you to resume their attack, and you can continually work to break this LoS. CPC also lasts 4 times as long as the proposed Symbol, giving you lots of time to work toward nullifying a ranged attacker’s advantage. Frankly, though, putting a ground-targeted symbol on the Sword would really take away the feeling of it being a Sword at all, and I think a lot of people would take issue with it.

The symbol would fix the lack of DPS from ZD and give us some extra trait synergy, but there are many other ways to raise the value of ZD in a PvE DPS rotation, and a symbol at your feet isn’t going to do much to fix a fundamentally broken skill in the other game modes. It would also require completely overhauling the skill effects and animations, and based on Anet’s rate of balance changes, that’s unlikely to ever happen. Very few skills in the game have ever received that type of treatment, and so it seems much more practical to me to focus on less drastic changes that target the key issues with skill mechanics.

I forgot to mention, I was going to give FB a Whirlwind Attack style targeting system. Other than that, FB doesn’t need a lot to be in a solid position. The Leap finisher is the right kind of bump both thematically and mechanically.

The Symbol has a much shorter recharge time than CPC and also isn’t a utility skill. It wouldn’t have to compete with CPC nor any of the other Guardian anti projectile skills.

Sword is definitely in a transition state from niche to niche. These changes combined with current traits would solidify its spot.

Ghotistyx.6942:

I forgot to mention, I was going to give FB a Whirlwind Attack style targeting system. Other than that, FB doesn’t need a lot to be in a solid position. The Leap finisher is the right kind of bump both thematically and mechanically.

The Symbol has a much shorter recharge time than CPC and also isn’t a utility skill. It wouldn’t have to compete with CPC nor any of the other Guardian anti projectile skills.

Sword is definitely in a transition state from niche to niche. These changes combined with current traits would solidify its spot.

Could you explain what makes the Leap finisher “the right kind of bump?” You don’t actually offer any reasons for why that is.

Regarding ZD, unless you’re advocating a CD reduction you didn’t mention, the Symbol is at half the cooldown of CPC (untraited, I might add), which isn’t a good deal for something that’s a quarter of the duration, missing the Weakness/Poison pulses with the halfway decent combo field, and lacking ground targeting. The opportunity cost for the Symbol would be taking a weapon with three decent skills as opposed to two. This change would also do nothing to actually help Zealot’s Defense hit people who aren’t standing within range of your auto-attack, which is ZD’s biggest problem after the self-rooting.

What is this new “niche” the Sword is transitioning to? You’ve mentioned it here and in the other thread about our weapons, but since the nerfs to its damage, Sword hasn’t actually been given any buffs that would suggest a new, more useful direction for it. It’s not a good utility weapon, offering only a brief projectile defense and a short, delayed Blind in a small radius. Its multi-hit autoattack and ZD are useful for proccing sigil and trait effects, but the vast majority of these just contribute to more damage, so there’s no utility there. It’s a worse defensive weapon than the Mace by a considerable margin, so what’s left for it if not damage? It’s actually got good potential as both a physical and condition weapon, so a damage role makes a ton of sense for the Sword.

Even if “projectile block weapon” is what you consider a niche, though, just making ZD mobile would still accomplish this better than the Symbol. With a mobile defense, you can at least prevent your opponent from increasing the gap at their leisure while effectively pinning you down in one spot. Combined with the Shield, a mobile ZD would provide a highly flexible projectile defense and synergize better with the gap-closing potential of Flashing Blade.

I do agree that it would be nice to have more Symbols available on our weapons, but if they’re going to put one on Sword, I’d much rather see a short-duration symbol added to Flashing Blade. Dropping a Symbol as soon as you land would help ensure that the Symbol’s damage connects with the target, and unless the target manages to immediately disengage, you’re likely to have the couple seconds you need to enjoy the Symbol’s full benefits. I’d like a Fury Symbol, personally, since the Sword is a critical-focused weapon (given the nature of Right-Hand Strength and its multi-hit attacks). Since I’m not counting on Anet actually adding Symbols to any of our weapons, though, just having FB provide a short Fury buff to nearby allies would also work. Maybe they could add some more reasonable damage to it if they’re feeling generous, but I’m not counting on that, either.

Yeah I have been waiting to post this because I thought it was just a few people’s opinion but it seems very wide spread that sword 2 leap? I mean really why are people obsessed with the leap finisher, are they going to go on about JI being a leap finisher next?

Sword 2 is a teleport ie it has different pathing and different effect.
If it gets leap it needs to be completely replaced because if you teleport past a focus fire wall of an opponent Ele it doesn’t proc damage while if you teleport past an ally Ele it procs combo?? It has to be both or neither and I would rather neither on this one.
It is a teleport which is unique on a weapon and that shouldn’t change stop it.

You’re getting at some of the ideas I’ve been thinking about. I’m not sure what exactly they’re going to do, but the ideas at least give a possible direction. Sword right now is in a lull or limbo where they’re reevaluating what Sword is supposed to be. Once we start seeing buffs, we’ll be able to see what they’re tending towards.

I guess my question then is, why not damage as its niche? Our Sword’s most unique property is the sheer number of hits that it can land with its auto chains and ZD. Like I mentioned above, this makes the Sword well-suited to not only landing critical hits, but also to proccing Virtue of Justice for burn damage. To me, the Sword’s basic design epitomizes what an offensive Guardian should look like: it integrates Virtue of Justice for DPS while bringing along just enough defense to be more tanky than what you might expect from melee fighter. The problems just lie with a few of the numbers and the weapon’s quality of life features.

I’m also not convinced that Anet intentionally nerfed the Sword’s damage to take it out of a DPS role. The specialization patch saw Burning damage buffed, so if the removal of the Sword’s damage trait was actually a deliberate nerf to the Sword (which may not even be the case, considering the scale of the changes in that patch), I think it makes more sense to assume that Anet was trying to check the natural rise in DPS the Sword was going to experience from Burning. I also don’t think that we should take the Symbol damage boost as a sign that the Mace is supposed to be a DPS weapon, because Anet balances primarily for PvP, where the Mace is rarely used for DPS. It’s more reasonable to assume that the symbol buff was targeted toward the Hammer and Greatsword (and perhaps in anticipation of the Longbow), with the Mace boost being a secondary benefit.

My suggestion for sword is to specialize it for the “go to” weapon for condi builds, since it already fits in nicely for them.

Auto-attack:
Of course, make the necessary changes to Sword Wave to improve the 3 hit reliance. Keep Sword Arc the same damage, but make it two attacks. Creating sword AA chain into 6 hits and with Supreme Justice 2 burn procs.

Flashing Blade:
Kept functionally the same, but leaves a fire wall exactly like Burning Speed behind the teleport (and a little in front of it so the target ends up in the field).

Zealot’s Defense:
Kept functionally similar. Make it move-while-casting. Same damage, but 9 attacks instead of 8 to gain 3 Justice procs. It’s a projectile attack, so give it a projectile finisher of 20%, to be used with the new fire wall you can create.

Why is leap on flashing blade so important for some people? I just don’t get it xD

Arutha.9874:

Yeah I have been waiting to post this because I thought it was just a few people’s opinion but it seems very wide spread that sword 2 leap? I mean really why are people obsessed with the leap finisher, are they going to go on about JI being a leap finisher next?

Sword 2 is a teleport ie it has different pathing and different effect.
If it gets leap it needs to be completely replaced because if you teleport past a focus fire wall of an opponent Ele it doesn’t proc damage while if you teleport past an ally Ele it procs combo?? It has to be both or neither and I would rather neither on this one.
It is a teleport which is unique on a weapon and that shouldn’t change stop it.

1: I agree that a leap finisher would be a very minor improvement, and on its own still wouldn’t be worth using

2: Just because it’s a teleport, it doesn’t mean that it can’t provide a leap finisher. There are other teleports that do, Mesmer Sword 3→3, and Mesmer staff 2.

One change I have been wishing they would add for quite some time would greatly effect the sword.

If they would get rid of radiant retaliation then move Right Handed Strength into it’s grand master slot with the addition of
“your critical hits with one handed weapons apply X (say 4-5 seconds) seconds of bleeding”

That ^ plus fixing the auto attack chain to be an actual melee would go a long way towards making the sword good.
It would also serve to make an actual choice for what people would want as their grand master.