Guild Wars 2

Test updated with actual proof :

Kjeldoran.3849

“sorry but I’m 100% sure there is an error”

Next time,in order to be “100 % sure” do some testing yourself.

Comparison

Necromancer 0 damage modifiers.

Guardian 3 damage modifiers (Sigil of force = 5% damage,Unscathed Contender = 20% damage while under the effect of Aegis,Pure Of Sight = 7% damage while 0-600 units from target)

Guardian had 32% damage bonus

Necromancer had 0 damage bonus

No food no boons.Only boon i had,was on guardian,Aegis,which gave me 20% damage.

Again,i understand guardian was meant to be heavy support,but this is ridiculous.

Without ascended pieces on Necromancer,i did more damage than with my guardian.

If i had no damage modifiers on my guardian,damage done would be much less.

Damage? What for? After all it still on a good place – guardian has the most large number of useless light fields! Vivat Arena Net!

2890 vs 1070 is an error in your math or else you aren’t accurately testing under the same circumstances.

I doubt this is an over sight for one reason, Reaper greatsword is designed to be slow and heavy.

The guardian greatsword chain takes 1.5 seconds, the Reaper greatsword chain takes 2.5 seconds by comparison.

The damage is balanced against the Reaper attacks being slower and easier to avoid/negate.

^ Even then, according to gw2skills, in identical berserker armor + scholar runes (no traits or other modifiers) the Guardian’s GS is 840/840/1250 vs Necro’s 1000/1250/1450 auto attacks. In order to get the OP’s numbers you need to be factoring in all the damage modifiers for a Necro while completely ignoring modifiers for the Guardian.

I forgot to mention its about pve damage.Not pvp

Indure.5410:

2890 vs 1070 is an error in your math or else you aren’t accurately testing under the same circumstances.

I will do testing later again,and post screen s.

sorry but I’m 100% sure there is an error… aside some errors above me (like that gs chain takes 2.5s vs 3s of the necro’s one) the damages you indicated are absolutely “strange”, my main is a guardian and with ascended gear (only 6 pieces berserker) I get at least 2k non crit damage and up to 5k crit damage with AA attacks (depending on boon and boosters).

On a side note, damage depends very much on your traits. Some classes get higher base damage while other classes (like guard) get more damage boosts. You miss them. You do no damage. You get them. Your damage raises.

Going back at damage question: yes guardians have a bit lower damage at moment if compared to other classes (especially revenant which are basically guard 2.0 better at everything at moment, lucky some nerfs are coming with next patch) but on the other hand we get very much group utility. Necro and Guard are 2 different playstyles, you can play a necro like a guard and a guard like a necro but you will never get the same result as playing the classes for what they are: support with good damage, selfish with high damage.

I quit WoW to join gw2
now I heard they are gonna nerf hunter dragon traps ?
I quit wow cuz they kept nerfing class
becuz people cry about they are too strong cant beat them bah bah bah
its soo unfair for ppl who love to play the class ,
I think if ppl think they are too strong GO MAKE ONE
if people think dh are too strong
what about ranger they also got trap , neco they got 2 hp hard to kill
dragon banner that is a strong skill too , that should be taken off as well
they should be nerf too
its not fair for 1 class to be nerf ,
if people want to nerf , they nerf ALL Class just to be Fair

If you leave games just because of the absolutely necessary process of adjusting class balance in light of direct observation of the Live game, you’re not gonna find a permanent home anywhere in the MMO industry.

Change happens. Some of it will be nerfs. Or stick to one-shot games (and even those get patched).

@Keviin Snow.5760 yes DH traps are strong, but so other classes have strongs builds.

Also trap is a dumb and easy gameplay(trap performance + players dont think nor dont want to), i find traps way to easy to kill players that i barelly dont need to move much.
When i tried i wasnt full zerker, i even dropped traps in SM, and went afk, while looking for the screen a bit more than a minute later akf in keep noticed retaliation damage and 2 bags, i won afk because of skill right?

Also if other classes have this easy and cheesy builds they need to be fixed.

and now try to calculate with a warrior or a revenant. they deal more damage with their aa and attack faster than a gs on reaper

Ranatoa.4869:

I doubt this is an over sight for one reason, Reaper greatsword is designed to be slow and heavy.

The guardian greatsword chain takes 1.5 seconds, the Reaper greatsword chain takes 2.5 seconds by comparison.

The damage is balanced against the Reaper attacks being slower and easier to avoid/negate.

So why hammer does not have same dmg then, it’s also super slow.

Indure.5410:

^ Even then, according to gw2skills, in identical berserker armor + scholar runes (no traits or other modifiers) the Guardian’s GS is 840/840/1250 vs Necro’s 1000/1250/1450 auto attacks. In order to get the OP’s numbers you need to be factoring in all the damage modifiers for a Necro while completely ignoring modifiers for the Guardian.

There you go.Updated post.See for yourself Necro’s damage without gear.

Your original post was GS vs GS. You compared guardian’s hammer to necro’s GS. Hammer is low tier damage and has a forum thread with +150 responses complaining about its short comings.

Unfortunately for your argument, one of the hammer’s strengths is its AA chain (I believe its second best in the game currently). The symbol (especially when fully traited) does lots of damage at the SAME TIME as your auto attacks. In the same period of time that a necro GS can complete a 3 hit auto chain, the guardian’s hammer (starting on second AA chain) hits 3 times as well, plus has ~3 symbol procs. So in a period of time when you do ~4,500 damage the hammer will do ~6200 (numbers are from your screen shot).

Edit: Actually, the AA chain for hammer is ~7.1k according to your screenshot. Roughly a 60% damage increase.

Indure.5410:

Your original post was GS vs GS. You compared guardian’s hammer to necro’s GS. Hammer is low tier damage and has a forum thread with +150 responses complaining about its short comings.

Unfortunately for your argument, one of the hammer’s strengths is its AA chain (I believe its second best in the game currently). The symbol (especially when fully traited) does lots of damage at the SAME TIME as your auto attacks. In the same period of time that a necro GS can complete a 3 hit auto chain, the guardian’s hammer (starting on second AA chain) hits 3 times as well, plus has ~3 symbol procs. So in a period of time when you do ~4,500 damage the hammer will do ~6200 (numbers are from your screen shot).

Edit: Actually, the AA chain for hammer is ~7.1k according to your screenshot. Roughly a 60% damage increase.

You calculating damage,how it goes in your favor.You can’t calculate guardian’s damage done in 30 sec,with all skills vs necromancer’s gsword skill 1 chain.

I wrote wall of text here,but then i changed my mind.

You have below,updated SS.

I really wish you nice evening and better life,to find inner peace.Do not look for excuses,when there’s none.

Indure.5410:

Your original post was GS vs GS. You compared guardian’s hammer to necro’s GS. Hammer is low tier damage and has a forum thread with +150 responses complaining about its short comings.

Unfortunately for your argument, one of the hammer’s strengths is its AA chain (I believe its second best in the game currently). The symbol (especially when fully traited) does lots of damage at the SAME TIME as your auto attacks. In the same period of time that a necro GS can complete a 3 hit auto chain, the guardian’s hammer (starting on second AA chain) hits 3 times as well, plus has ~3 symbol procs. So in a period of time when you do ~4,500 damage the hammer will do ~6200 (numbers are from your screen shot).

Edit: Actually, the AA chain for hammer is ~7.1k according to your screenshot. Roughly a 60% damage increase.

Here,just for you.

Necromancer 0 damage modifiers.No rings,no neck,no earrings no back.

Guardian 32% damage with modifiers.Yes rings,neck,earrings and back.

Doing less damage,than necromancer,even if difference in gear is enormous.

I am sure my friend,you will find again,something to complain about.like,no dmg done on boss,no this,no that…yes this yes that..

It cant be more simple than this.

With this,i will see myself removed from the forums.All excuses,makes me sick in jelly belly.

@Werdx.2059 can u do the same with GS guard???? both with gear and both w/o gear.

also it is normal for some classes do better one thing than others.

I’m trying to keep this polite, but you don’t have enough knowledge about Guardians to know what you are talking about. The highest damage output for hammer is just AA chains. The usage of skills# 2-5 are a DPS loss and are not used in a damage rotation. Also my post is in reference to DPS (damage per second), not damage per hit which I think you are putting too much of an emphasize on.

Necros AA chain (numbers are based off your screen shot):
Dusk Strike (~1,300) > Fading Strike (~1,500) > Chilling Scythe (~1,800) = ~4,600/2.5s

Hammer’s initial AA chain:
Hammer swing (~1,300) > Hammer Bash (~1,500) > Symbol of Protection AA (~1600) + Symbol proc (~850) = ~5,250/2.5s

After the first chain of hammer creating the initial symbol, all further AA chains:
Hammer swing (~1,300) > Symbol proc (~850) > Hammer Bash (~1,500) > Symbol proc (~850) > Symbol of Protection AA (~1600) + Symbol proc (~850) = ~7,000/2.5s

So during the first AA chain, hammer slightly outperforms necros’ GS, but once the second AA chain starts then Hammer gets a significant boost to outperform GS by ~60% DPS (under these specific circumstances and when only looking at AA chains). I understand the necro is at a stat+damage modifier disadvantage, but the results show the 60% disparity you would expect.

Also keep in mind I’m not saying the damage for Hammer is higher than the necros’ GS when factoring in all skills. In fact I’m sure it is much lower (since the hammer is not considered a high damage weapon for Guardian).

Edit: Based off your screen shot, the 60% disparity is only coming from power and the +30% damage modifiers for the Guardian. You also have 25% more crit and 30% more ferocity with the trinkets which would increase the disparity even further if crits were added to the experiment.

Necromancer has almost no gear,with non ascended weapon nor items,doing more damage than guardian full equipped.

If i exclude damage modifiers on guardian,if i use exotic item instead of ascended,i would do even less damage.

You trying to keep something polite?Did someone invited you into discussion?No.

Before i made SS,you had issue with numbers not being correct AKA

Even then, according to gw2skills, in identical berserker armor + scholar runes (no traits or other modifiers) the Guardian’s GS is 840/840/1250 vs Necro’s 1000/1250/1450 auto attacks. In order to get the OP’s numbers you need to be factoring in all the damage modifiers for a Necro while completely ignoring modifiers for the Guardian.

Well,you forgot,necromancer doesn’t have any ring,neck,back or earrings which is half of the gear,and EVEN then,necro pulled bigger numbers than you calculated on gw2skills site.

I gave you SS

Now,you have different issue.

I checked all your posts on this forum.You are plug to every hole.Your presence is a must on every topic created,ever.Nothing can go without your opinion,which is very incorrect now,and you have hard time accepting it,as we all can see.

You are only person out of 1067 who saw the topic,who feel insane urge to go against simple screen shoot.No mathematic involved,no – nor + no gw2skills,nor any editor.You have simple SS,it can’t be much more simple than it is now.

Chain attack skill 1 Necromancer Greatsword

Chain attack skill 1 Guardian Hammer

Escort yourself from topic.

Can you please critique my response base off its merits, rather than just personally attacking. I still don’t understand why you think necro outperforms hammer in worst gear; when you can look at a simple DPS AA rotation and see that it doesn’t. I’m not even using my own data to slant the topic, it’s your numbers.

And your kitten right I post heavily on the guardian forum; I’ve been playing a guardian as my main for years and deeply care about the issues effecting it.

Indure.5410:

Can you please critique my response base off its merits, rather than just personally attacking. I still don’t understand why you think necro outperforms hammer in worst gear; when you can look at a simple DPS AA rotation and see that it doesn’t. I’m not even using my own data to slant the topic, it’s your numbers.

And your kitten right I post heavily on the guardian forum; I’ve been playing a guardian as my main for years and deeply care about the issues effecting it.

I said enough.Screen shoot of naked necromancer and fully equipped guardian doesn’t lie.

Last post.

bye
/char ………

you can defend necros all you like but the truth hurts.

What is even the point of this thread? If you have convinced yourself that Guardian doesn’t do enough damage for your tastes, don’t play it. Have enough sense to stop at that.

What a painful read…

Werdx.2059:

…

You, sir, need to do two things:

First, you need to understand that damage is balanced around DPS. Damage per second.

Second, you need to realize that your pictures therefore prove nothing.

If you don’t believe other players and really want to compare both classes and weapons:

1. Go to the Mist.
2. Equip any amulet which doesn’t have any precision or ferocity on it.
3. Pick a rune the same way
4. Select 3 traitlines which – in the best case – don’t provide any damage boni.
5. Don’t select any traits.
6. Pick up a weapon
7. Kill a Target-Golem several times and take the time. Calculate the average time.
8. Make sure you kill the Golem the same way everytime (e.g. only AA)
9. Repeat with a different class and weapon. Compare.

Even if you do so, it disregards other factors. But this doesn’t seem to matter here.

Meanwhile, in the land we call reality, Guard’s need a nerfing! DH hit’s way too hard right now. Not just the traps but, the bow needs toning down too. I’m especially looking at how OP True Shot is.

For the general discussion, this is a poor method if testing a Professions damage output. Since it’s a test dummy, you are completely disregarding burning damage. Also, what other benefits are there like the Guardians getting 33% incoming damage reduction while AA’ing.

DeWolfe.2174:

Meanwhile, in the land we call reality, Guard’s need a nerfing! DH hit’s way too hard right now. Not just the traps but, the bow needs toning down too. I’m especially looking at how OP True Shot is.

For the general discussion, this is a poor method if testing a Professions damage output. Since it’s a test dummy, you are completely disregarding burning damage. Also, what other benefits are there like the Guardians getting 33% incoming damage reduction while AA’ing.

This topic is not to lure people getting owned by guardian.They will always complain no matter which class kills them,NERF!

Now,to the matter.

While completely ignoring guardian’s burn,i also ignored necromancer’s Chilling Nova,Decimate Defenses,Deathly Chill…Used only one skill,to show damage done,while almost completely naked vs fully geared guardian.

Point of this topic is not Dragonhunter nor Greatbow.Point is low damage done (almost same) as Necromancer with – 692 power,466 precision,466 ferocity.

If you have problem with guardian doing big damage,make topic meant for that kind of discussion.

As i said 10x so far,but people do not read,nor care,but they care to answer and trying to i do not know what or who,i am playing shield/scepter guardian.Damage i do is 5x lower than damage done by meta guard,but i do not like meta.

I enjoy shield scepter guard,and i wont change it,no matter,how many times i get kicked from groups. I am actually happy for not being one of those “bot” people,who play something they do not like,in order to win.

Now,as for people who keep saying hammer is good,why then,there’s only one hammer build for guardians on most popular site,if not only of that kind? MettaBattle wiki

I guess,those bitter players,who badly try to ignore fact,that naked necromancer,with one attack,is doing more damage than fully equipped guardian,playing necromancer themselves.

Who wouldn’t with damage they do and survivability they have?But you forgot one thing..i have necromancer as well.

I do not complain how necro is op,or anything like that,because i do not play that kind of game,to complain on other classes.

I just showed to the people,how low damage guardian does,even fully equipped vs class that has half stats less than guard.

This being not even close to optimal rotations for either class, what exactly does it prove? If you rly wanna test DPS you do with either class I suggest trying to use the jaxnx DPS meter.

Seems to me if a person wants to compare two classes (as useless an exercise as that may be), then they should have some exceptional knowledge of each one.

I can show you even lower damage on Guardian … by just standing there doing nothing. That doesn’t prove Guardians are a low-damage class.

DeWolfe.2174:

Meanwhile, in the land we call reality, Guard’s need a nerfing! DH hit’s way too hard right now. Not just the traps but, the bow needs toning down too. I’m especially looking at how OP True Shot is.

For the general discussion, this is a poor method if testing a Professions damage output. Since it’s a test dummy, you are completely disregarding burning damage. Also, what other benefits are there like the Guardians getting 33% incoming damage reduction while AA’ing.

LOL, true shnot is the ONLY bow SKill they have to do damage with XDDD, like seriously nerfing that would throw a Guardian beneath the Warrior in capability, Seriously your trying to send the profession to the grave cause u forgot what evade frames or Dodging is?..

Werdx.2059:

DeWolfe.2174:

Meanwhile, in the land we call reality, Guard’s need a nerfing! DH hit’s way too hard right now. Not just the traps but, the bow needs toning down too. I’m especially looking at how OP True Shot is.

For the general discussion, this is a poor method if testing a Professions damage output. Since it’s a test dummy, you are completely disregarding burning damage. Also, what other benefits are there like the Guardians getting 33% incoming damage reduction while AA’ing.

This topic is not to lure people getting owned by guardian.They will always complain no matter which class kills them,NERF!

Now,to the matter.

While completely ignoring guardian’s burn,i also ignored necromancer’s Chilling Nova,Decimate Defenses,Deathly Chill…Used only one skill,to show damage done,while almost completely naked vs fully geared guardian.

Point of this topic is not Dragonhunter nor Greatbow.Point is low damage done (almost same) as Necromancer with – 692 power,466 precision,466 ferocity.

If you have problem with guardian doing big damage,make topic meant for that kind of discussion.

As i said 10x so far,but people do not read,nor care,but they care to answer and trying to i do not know what or who,i am playing shield/scepter guardian.Damage i do is 5x lower than damage done by meta guard,but i do not like meta.

I enjoy shield scepter guard,and i wont change it,no matter,how many times i get kicked from groups. I am actually happy for not being one of those “bot” people,who play something they do not like,in order to win.

Now,as for people who keep saying hammer is good,why then,there’s only one hammer build for guardians on most popular site,if not only of that kind? MettaBattle wiki

I guess,those bitter players,who badly try to ignore fact,that naked necromancer,with one attack,is doing more damage than fully equipped guardian,playing necromancer themselves.

Who wouldn’t with damage they do and survivability they have?But you forgot one thing..i have necromancer as well.

I do not complain how necro is op,or anything like that,because i do not play that kind of game,to complain on other classes.

I just showed to the people,how low damage guardian does,even fully equipped vs class that has half stats less than guard.

U Just admitted you dont use Meta, at the end of the day that’s your own choice, but the guardian is VERY Build dependant their Natural stats are extremely low, therefore if ur not using Meta ur going to damage ur own potiental ALOT more then most other proffessions.

ur going to have low DPS if ur playing a Bad build. its a MMO, welcome… Min-maxing and Alternating Playstyle is what you do.