Guild Wars 2

Wait… they want our Constructive Feedback….

AGAIN…

Best thing.. /bump.

Cuz honestly, I’m tired of #$%#$%#$%#$%$# writing down this crap every time and yet nothing is done… every time….

Maybe this time around they’ll actually respond to us… /ponder

Amins.3710:

Maybe this time around they’ll actually respond to us… /ponder

Wouldn’t hold your breath. The fact that they have yet to address condition damage verses toughness/armor and some classes overall health pool, it doesn’t look too good.

Guardians still can’t trait for DPS and expect to survive. Heck, trait for support and you can’t survive. Assist train will bypass you once they know you are a support player because you can’t do anything with no CC (limited, ok) and wreck your dps. If you go DPS you don’t have great range and you then become first target again once they know you. kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t. That is, coming from a group play. Zerg warfare, you lose anyway due to conditions.

Oh wait, the new mist map will fix everything Well, it will for guardians to some degree because with hammer and shields we can punt players to their death I guess /rollseyes.

They really need to fix mace. It is really too slow. The last hit from #1 and the #2 must be faster this kills the mace.

I wonder if they are trying to break a record to see how long they can ignore us even though they said they were going to respond to us and never did……

We should call Guiness….

Blasino.3128:

We should call Guiness….

No, we need to drink Guiness

It’s obvious their plan is just let this die or let the thread got so off topic then the mod has a good reason to close.

As futile as it is, I don’t want those things to happen.

Let’s see some good customer service.

Maybe totally unrelated but one thing I’ve noticed the last couple of days while playing is this. There are people both in game and on these forums who are just better than the average or even above average player. They know how the Guardian works, they know how the enemy they are engaging works, and they know when to just cut and run (or stand and fall because you can’t win them all no matter how hard we try).

These said players are far and few within our ranks. And while it wouldn’t be fair to say they don’t see any weaknesses in the Guardian or care; they simply work around whatever short comings we have. I witnessed this first hand last night after getting the mother of all Molly Whoppin (had my kitten handed to me) from a fellow Guardian. I could have brought a nuke to the fight and he still would have beat me to a pulp (and yes, I consider myself somewhat above average).

A good player can make anyone feel like the opposing class needs a nerf.
A above average player can make any class seem over powered.
A excellent player just makes a mockery of anyone regardless of numbers yet is graceful enough to talk after the battle and exchange ideas. Yet they still make the person they just beat behind the keyboard fell like a utter fool only to say maybe it is time to un-install.

Maybe we don’t need anything and just strive to be that better player?

Edit: Just to clarify. I am not calling anyone out or saying they are bad outside of my own self. It really was just an observation after watching some other guarding play both on my server and others out in WvW.

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

Svarty.8019:

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

That would mean they care…

Amins.3710:

Svarty.8019:

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

That would mean they care…

They re-stuck the burning thread… /boggle

Svarty.8019:

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

Certainly not this thread … at least not without deleting most of the QQ posts from it.

Crapgame.6519:

Amins.3710:

Svarty.8019:

THis thread needs to be moved to the Balance forum.

Forum Moderator – over to you!

That would mean they care…

They re-stuck the burning thread… /boggle

Props to that forum moderator. We still need a dev here that reached out to us about having a discussion.

Virtue of Courage
passive effect
“Grants aegis every forty seconds.” - Shields the guardian giving protection.

Ill take -33% dmg all day instead of a random block which can be broken by even the smallest hit. Also this will make up for the low health that we have, thus giving a little more sustain.

active effect
Grant aegis to yourself and nearby allies. Aegis 20 seconds, radius 1200.

Upon activation the Guardian gives up his sustain for aiding his allies.
Aegis 10 seconds, blocks all attacks for 1 second.

I think 20 seconds is too much, therefore the guardian will learn when to time his block for his mates. Also I think 1 second of blocking all attacks makes more sense.

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

Shattered Aegis
As soon as I get in on Monday, I’ll post the damage #s on this and the power scaling. I think a meaning ful discussion about this change is going to require that. One danger here is that big WvW zergs using this could be really powerful, but I will say that the numbers are decent.

Supreme Justice and Kindled Zeal
I feel like there is a build here, but TBH I haven’t gotten it to work in our internal testing yet. This is as good a place as any to talk about stat conversion traits.

Currently they do not convert 100% of a stat because certain stat bonuses such as those from signets do not get converted. For that reason we are being conservative but normalizing all of our conversions to the follow #s for now.
Minor: 5%,7%, and 10% respectively for adept, master and grandmaster.
Major: 7%,10%, and 13% respectively for adept, master, and grandmaster.

I’m not sure this will be enough, but I do not want these traits to be overpowered as I feel they are fairly passive. That being said, I think they are good simple traits and with 12 traits per line it is absolutely fine to have some passive simple to understand traits.

Another thing about this build is that you do not have all of the information you need about this power guardian right now, but I can’t reveal more without spoilers. /tease

Symbol of Swiftness
To clarify the new Symbol of Swiftness will give you 4 seconds of Swiftness every single pulse regardless of if you have swiftness or not. This is a improvement in many situations and a slight loss in the situation where you were using the Symbol as just a one time buff. I think this makes it feel more like a Symbol, which is good. We are still discussing the idea of it being 5 seconds, but there is some danger of that going pretty high with boon duration.

Power guardian vs Condition guardian
I think Dec 10th will see the emergence of the power guardian, but I think that the condition based guardian still has a ways to go. Ultimately this is because it is hard to cover the burning and frankly you need a good reliable second or even third condition that guardians simply do not have right now. I think for those professions lacking that 3rd damage condition we are looking at supplementing them via runes and sigils rather than skills/traits right now but that won’t be something we attempt until the build that follows the Dec 10th build.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a few half spoiler/half teases.

Thanks,

Jon

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

Maybe if we send them another couple boxes of cup cakes they will re-visit this thread and enlighten us on this so-called Power Guardian. It is turning out to be has elusive has the fabled Loch Ness monster!

Dynnen.6405:

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a tease.

Thanks,

Jon

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

Fixed

Amins.3710:

Dynnen.6405:

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a tease.

Thanks,

Jon

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

Fixed

ROFL

JonPeters.5630:

Hello Guardians,

So I wanted to talk about the bigger discussion topics for the Dec changes for you as well.

Shattered Aegis
As soon as I get in on Monday, I’ll post the damage #s on this and the power scaling. I think a meaning ful discussion about this change is going to require that. One danger here is that big WvW zergs using this could be really powerful, but I will say that the numbers are decent.

Supreme Justice and Kindled Zeal
I feel like there is a build here, but TBH I haven’t gotten it to work in our internal testing yet. This is as good a place as any to talk about stat conversion traits.

Currently they do not convert 100% of a stat because certain stat bonuses such as those from signets do not get converted. For that reason we are being conservative but normalizing all of our conversions to the follow #s for now.
Minor: 5%,7%, and 10% respectively for adept, master and grandmaster.
Major: 7%,10%, and 13% respectively for adept, master, and grandmaster.

I’m not sure this will be enough, but I do not want these traits to be overpowered as I feel they are fairly passive. That being said, I think they are good simple traits and with 12 traits per line it is absolutely fine to have some passive simple to understand traits.

Another thing about this build is that you do not have all of the information you need about this power guardian right now, but I can’t reveal more without spoilers. /tease

Symbol of Swiftness
To clarify the new Symbol of Swiftness will give you 4 seconds of Swiftness every single pulse regardless of if you have swiftness or not. This is a improvement in many situations and a slight loss in the situation where you were using the Symbol as just a one time buff. I think this makes it feel more like a Symbol, which is good. We are still discussing the idea of it being 5 seconds, but there is some danger of that going pretty high with boon duration.

Power guardian vs Condition guardian
I think Dec 10th will see the emergence of the power guardian, but I think that the condition based guardian still has a ways to go. Ultimately this is because it is hard to cover the burning and frankly you need a good reliable second or even third condition that guardians simply do not have right now. I think for those professions lacking that 3rd damage condition we are looking at supplementing them via runes and sigils rather than skills/traits right now but that won’t be something we attempt until the build that follows the Dec 10th build.

I think that is everything for guardian and hopefully you enjoyed a few half spoiler/half teases.

Thanks,

Jon

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

Blasino.3128:

I wonder if they are trying to break a record to see how long they can ignore us even though they said they were going to respond to us and never did……

We should call Guiness….

Still waiting for that Monday when Jon gets back to us about Shattered Aegis.

Well today is Saturday, so just two more days!

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

No, the devs kittenty choices are the reason devs don’t interact with us. I’d be embarrassed too.

Besides prior to this we were all cute/cuddly/nice. Now…not so much

Btw, u might wanna take that burn build thing outta the signature. Its hard to take you seriously with that there =(

Dynnen.6405:

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

Btw, u might wanna take that burn build thing outta the signature. Its hard to take you seriously with that there =(

Nice: strawman out of your poor behavior. Can I subscribe to your newsletter?

It’s clear you didn’t read the thread you’re insulting me over, considering the overarching argument is to not spec condition damage which I think is something everyone can agree on.

If you’d like to continue coming up with excuses for perpetuating this dead horse beating, I’m open to hearing them. But it’s not my behavior that’s in question.

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do. No I did read the thread you posted (about 6 months ago) and its a decent guide, theres one problem however. Its pretty easy to identify what increases burning on targets and put them all into a build and increasing proc rate with things like scepter/torch/symbols. But the problem isn’t with your build, its with the class. Condi guardian is useless in pvp/wvw and even more useless in pve. Not to mention there are plenty of other classes that do it better…way better.

Another problem is theres only been bones (Supreme Justice) thrown to Guardians along with stealth nerfs (retal nerf but no change to Guardian damage), its pretty kittened not only from a balance standpoint but from a development/production standpoint.

I mean we’ve been telling them that there needs to be other ways for us to apply DIFFERENT conditions for a long long time. Permeating Wrath needs to activate on the target not on us so things like staff and scepter can utilize it…although staff is only 600 range and scepter only lands on targets in 300 range so maybe that permeating wrath change isn’t needed (MUCH SARCASM). However there are so many other problems with the Guardian that this is a low priority imo.

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse. And I do apologize for the ‘straw manning’ there I had no idea we were in a debate when I was cracking a joke. But now I see the error of my ways that we are in fact in a debate =P

It still doesn’t matter when the developer/designer initiated the conversation to begin with and didn’t listen or like our input. Furthermore, they never followed up after we provided input pre and post patch.

Why seek information then don’t even acknowledge it and deliver something you (developer/designer) even said was a bad choice?

If you work and your employer asked you for something and you delivered that what do you think would happen (provided you don’t work for a Union or the U.S. Government). You would get fired or reprimanded. And rightly so.

The road to hell is paved with good intent. I think that is pretty much applicable in this case.

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

Bump … I’m not impressed by the behaviour exhibited in this thread by Anet or the players, but at least Anet knows enough to drop it and move on to the next thing.

Oh, BTW … notice that Guardians are next to last on the vote for what profs need help? Another reason for people to drop the childish behaviour and kitteny attitudes if we want devs to look into this profession with some input from the players.

Bottomline: we aren’t an approachable community with all the people acting out.

Obtena.7952:

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

Bump … I’m not impressed by the behaviour exhibited in this thread by Anet or the players, but at least Anet knows enough to drop it and move on to the next thing.

Oh, BTW … notice that Guardians are next to last on the vote for what profs need help? Another reason for people to drop the childish behaviour and kitteny attitudes if we want devs to look into this profession with some input from the players.

Bottomline: we aren’t an approachable community with all the people acting out.

I don’t understand. There have been quite a few of us ready and willing to give proper constructive feedback. Many of us already have! At the very least we should get some response from a developer.

I agree that some response WAS warranted but what would the point be now? We know the answer. Move on people.

Because there are a lot of us who actually give a crap about the Guardian profession and won’t just sit by while our profession gets ignored.

Obtena.7952:

foofad.5162:

You guys are the reason devs don’t interact with players.

Bump … I’m not impressed by the behaviour exhibited in this thread by Anet or the players, but at least Anet knows enough to drop it and move on to the next thing.

Oh, BTW … notice that Guardians are next to last on the vote for what profs need help? Another reason for people to drop the childish behaviour and kitteny attitudes if we want devs to look into this profession with some input from the players.

Bottomline: we aren’t an approachable community with all the people acting out.

We were approachable for nearly a year, we made suggestions and they didn’t do any of them. They said they were going to talk about them with us, then made the changes anyway. You act like this ‘discussion’ is just now starting, but we’ve been pointing out significant problems with the class since beta.

So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.

Dynnen.6405:

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do.

If you want to hold someone accountable, be my guest. Consolidate your opinions, voice them in a logical way that it backed up if possible with examples of wrongdoing and constructive ways of improving for the future.

Here’s what you’ve actually said.

Dynnen.6405:

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

Dynnen.6405:

ROFL

Dynnen.6405:

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

And hey, you may have actually done so at some point earlier in the thread. If you did, fantastic. That’s where it ends. At this point, almost no one – not a developer, whose time is valuable, nor a concerned player – is going to dig through twelve pages, most of which after page three or four is whining. Spamming an ancient thread which is clearly dead with one-line sarcastic bumps doesn’t do anyone any good, least of all the developers you are trying to influence.

Dynnen.6405:

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse.

I’m not bargaining. I’m telling you that you aren’t being helpful, even if you think you are somehow.

Arken.3725:

Because there are a lot of us who actually give a crap about the Guardian profession and won’t just sit by while our profession gets ignored.

Whinging in an old thread doesn’t really speak to the kind of heroic steadfastness you seem to think you’re demonstrating. There are much better ways to voice your discontent.

Dynnen.6405:

So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.

The incentive to not appear like a child that doesn’t get it’s way? I don’t think anyone is pleased how this December dev interaction turned out, but if we are mature about it, future interactions can proceed in a positive manner, or at all.

Frankly, based on the PLAYER’S own feedback on what professions need help, the last thing we need is our own profession supporters creating an even more toxic communication to Anet devs by acting out. Time to grow up a bit.

foofad.5162:

Dynnen.6405:

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do.

If you want to hold someone accountable, be my guest. Consolidate your opinions, voice them in a logical way that it backed up if possible with examples of wrongdoing and constructive ways of improving for the future.

Here’s what you’ve actually said.

Dynnen.6405:

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

Dynnen.6405:

ROFL

Dynnen.6405:

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

And hey, you may have actually done so at some point earlier in the thread. If you did, fantastic. That’s where it ends. At this point, almost no one – not a developer, whose time is valuable, nor a concerned player – is going to dig through twelve pages, most of which after page three or four is whining. Spamming an ancient thread which is clearly dead with one-line sarcastic bumps doesn’t do anyone any good, least of all the developers you are trying to influence.

Dynnen.6405:

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse.

I’m not bargaining. I’m telling you that you aren’t being helpful, even if you think you are somehow.

I was being helpful about…4 months ago doing exactly what you recommended. Discussing issues and improvements that could be made. But they are listening about as much as they did in gw1. And talking about strawman…you only bring up the things that I’ve been saying to poke fun and call out the devs, not my weapons suggestion/trait line suggestions/ability suggestions all with reasoning to them and balance in mind. To be honest most of those were outside of this forum post, so if you looked at this one specific situation without looking outside and using that to pass judgement..go ahead =P

Obtena.7952:

Dynnen.6405:

So what incentive do I have to not call them out on mechanic mistakes and not fulfilling statements made like “I’ll come back and we’ll talk”? Its not an isolated incident, its a pattern.

The incentive to not appear like a child that doesn’t get it’s way? I don’t think anyone is pleased how this December dev interaction turned out, but if we are mature about it, future interactions can proceed in a positive manner, or at all.

Frankly, based on the PLAYER’S own feedback on what professions need help, the last thing we need is our own profession supporters creating an even more toxic communication to Anet devs by acting out. Time to grow up a bit.

They DON’T communicate is my point. I’m trying to be passive aggressive because specifically pointing out issues that the devs have had with interacting with the community as well as development/production with in their own game will get you suspended. Even if its legitimate and not trolly, just direct with suggestions on improvements gets suspension

But to the point that I’m a child acting like they didn’t get their way…I guess I can kinda see your point. However thinking back on my posts made months ago and not hearing anything or seeing anything from the devs for OTHER player’s posts I have kind of devolved.

So how about this:

I find it quite frustrating that a developer would suggest we could discuss something about how a change to our class would effect us, then not talk to us and make the change either way. Especially since that change is made it basically a single retaliation hit instead and was basically a stealth nerf to a trait that no one used anyway. Speaking of retaliation damage, why was it nerfed but our damage not increased to compensate for the damage loss since our class gains most from retaliation since its built into a lot of our fields/virtues.

Does that sound less kitteny? I hope so especially since I’ve voiced this months ago

I have no idea why you are white knighting the kitten outta these people. Lol, Guard has had so many things wrong with it for a very long time and there has been nothing done to fix it even though we collectively have had many good suggestions. A few ridiculous ones, but a lot of good ones.

So I salute you white knights! Keep defending the lords that look down on you as peasants!

Dynnen.6405:

foofad.5162:

Dynnen.6405:

You’re right. I shouldn’t hold anyone accountable to what they say they are going to do.

If you want to hold someone accountable, be my guest. Consolidate your opinions, voice them in a logical way that it backed up if possible with examples of wrongdoing and constructive ways of improving for the future.

Here’s what you’ve actually said.

Dynnen.6405:

Lonely…….soooo lonely…..

Dynnen.6405:

ROFL

Dynnen.6405:

I read this every once and and it still cracks me up XD

And hey, you may have actually done so at some point earlier in the thread. If you did, fantastic. That’s where it ends. At this point, almost no one – not a developer, whose time is valuable, nor a concerned player – is going to dig through twelve pages, most of which after page three or four is whining. Spamming an ancient thread which is clearly dead with one-line sarcastic bumps doesn’t do anyone any good, least of all the developers you are trying to influence.

Dynnen.6405:

I’ll tell you what. I will stop beating this ‘accountability’ dead horse if you stop beating the ‘condi guardian works’ horse.

I’m not bargaining. I’m telling you that you aren’t being helpful, even if you think you are somehow.

I was being helpful about…4 months ago doing exactly what you recommended. Discussing issues and improvements that could be made. But they are listening about as much as they did in gw1. And talking about strawman…you only bring up the things that I’ve been saying to poke fun and call out the devs, not my weapons suggestion/trait line suggestions/ability suggestions all with reasoning to them and balance in mind. To be honest most of those were outside of this forum post, so if you looked at this one specific situation without looking outside and using that to pass judgement..go ahead =P

Your previous success at being helpful doesn’t excuse your failure now. The only thing you can do is stop failing. You aren’t calling out the devs, you’re writing one line posts to keep a thread on life support that has been brain dead for pages and pages now.

No one, least of all the developers, is interested in you rofling at this trainwreck.

Dynnen.6405:

I have no idea why you are white knighting the kitten outta these people. Lol, Guard has had so many things wrong with it for a very long time and there has been nothing done to fix it even though we collectively have had many good suggestions. A few ridiculous ones, but a lot of good ones.

So I salute you white knights! Keep defending the lords that look down on you as peasants!

Just because I disagree with your treatment of the situation doesn’t mean that I agree with Anet. My personal opinion is that Jon goofed by not delivering, especially when he set a date upon which he was supposed to talk about it. He should never have mentioned a date.

The fact that he was dogpiled upon though, and the fact that this thread has devolved into pages of people jabbing at him is a good example of why developers don’t like interacting with fans sometimes. Your individual jokes or whatever you want to call them may not amount to much, but it’s not just you. Others in this thread – they’re all contributing to the negative, hyper-entitled milieu. It’s embarassing. I’m embarassed both for you, and to be a part of these forums where that kind of unhelpful behavior is common place. Same thing with the Spirit Druid threads.

Say it with me, guys: The solution to developer indifference to our input is not to make ourselves insufferable. That is literally the exact opposite of what you want. It’s like trying to get a girl to talk to you by being nasty to her.

To be clear, I do understand your frustration. I’ve been here since the beta weekends, and I’ve been posting actively for over a year. I’ve seen it all. There have been suggestion megathreads that never get touched by Anet, some very disappointing hints, and a ton of feedback that seems to go unnoticed. But you know what? From my perspective at least, we got a lot more communication back before we were bitter and spiteful.

You might be right, but personally if someone is saying something I am working on I show them that they are incorrect. However there hasn’t been any of that. I understand he can’t respond to every individual post, but when people are saying very general things like “Our weapons are kittened up!” or “Condi guardian needs help!” or “Our Zeal/Radiance trait lines need to be re-worked” or “Please combine symbol traits and clean up our traitlines!” or “Our 30 point pure of voice trait gets out done by 15 trait points and a war horn for warriors!” you have to respond either defending or attacking those points.

Why they haven’t? I don’t know, but I do know a little PR goes a long kittening way.

foofad.5162:

Arken.3725:

Because there are a lot of us who actually give a crap about the Guardian profession and won’t just sit by while our profession gets ignored.

Whinging in an old thread doesn’t really speak to the kind of heroic steadfastness you seem to think you’re demonstrating. There are much better ways to voice your discontent.

You’re right, just venting some frustration in the wrong areas. I think as long as we remain calm and collective, we can eventually get someone in here.

Who cares that guardian has only two viable builds…

foofad.5162:

Dynnen.6405:

I have no idea why you are white knighting the kitten outta these people. Lol, Guard has had so many things wrong with it for a very long time and there has been nothing done to fix it even though we collectively have had many good suggestions. A few ridiculous ones, but a lot of good ones.

So I salute you white knights! Keep defending the lords that look down on you as peasants!

The fact that he was dogpiled upon though, and the fact that this thread has devolved into pages of people jabbing at him is a good example of why developers don’t like interacting with fans sometimes.

I disagree has do others thus the post being actively read and updated. I also disagree on your comment about interaction. Lack of interaction isn’t because people are voicing an opinion. It is because they asked for comments and feedback on something they agreed wasn’t even a viable solution. Need I even remind you about this so called build mentioned or countless pages of feed back many provided has an alternative?

It didn’t get this way upon the question being asked. It was only after the patch that things took a turn for the worse. To be perfectly honest they are probably embarrassed.

From my perspective at least, we got a lot more communication back before we were bitter and spiteful.

Good thing I’m not wearing your glasses. I’ve also been here since beta and played actively since head start and disagree with you. It doesn’t matter if we agree or not but I just don’t see it your way at all.

Everyone here who disagreed could have posted nothing but golden bombs of light and love and we would be in the same juncture in the thread. Agree disagree it doesn’t matter to me. I just wouldn’t go around with rose colored glasses thinking everything is fine and it is the people who disagree fault has to why any developer doesn’t reply.

Clearly it wasn’t important and it fell off their radar or to-do list.

Why are you all arguing about whining or not whining in a dead thread? This whole last page is so full of… Well, I’ll cut myself off there. Post all you want in this thread but just know that making a more current and constructive thread would be more in your self interests.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Why are you all arguing about whining or not whining in a dead thread? This whole last page is so full of… Well, I’ll cut myself off there. Post all you want in this thread but just know that making a more current and constructive thread would be more in your self interests.

Or maybe you should go back and re-read page 2 aka 3 months ago….then we’ll talk.

Mightymealworm.8409:

Why are you all arguing about whining or not whining in a dead thread? This whole last page is so full of… Well, I’ll cut myself off there. Post all you want in this thread but just know that making a more current and constructive thread would be more in your self interests.

Or you could have read my “Real Talk: Weapons” threads, those were constructive and informative explaining what exactly was wrong with the weapons/symbols of the Guardian.