Guild Wars 2

I tried to make build with greastword, to make as high damage as its possible
So here it is

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUEQNAR7flYg67WGSNEm4Ehli/RwqHx7e27ShDpIA

elite and utility skills can be changed, but the question is which armor set would be better ( and which elite/utility skills would be better )

• power precision and critical damage
  or
  *power precision thoughness

Im looking for honest answer, im not really expierienced guardian ( just started to play )

U will fall like a flie in melee Combat. And Warrios will laugh about your dmg.

GC Guard is Fail, u can´t reach warrios dmg, and will lose everything what a Guardian makes to be a Guardian.

Painful but true, more then 10 Points in Zeal is a waste, a rly big waste.

Ok thanks, so are there any good damage builds for guardian ? I forgot to add, i want PvE build.

Zeal doesn’t really provide that much of a damage increase, and the Zealous Blade trait is only 25 health per hit. At the very least I’d recommend taking 10 points out of Zeal and using it to max out Valor and pick up Altruistic Healing or Monk’s Focus . Either will give you much more of a survivability boost than Zealous Blade would

I’d also consider taking 20 points out of Radiance and putting them into Honor for either Two-Handed Mastery or or Empowering Might. Both will help your damage while not requiring you to always have weak enemies nearby to fuel your Virtue of Justice spam. Heck, if you really wanted to you could put 30 points in Honor and take both traits while also getting Elusive Power (10% damage boost as long as your endurance isn’t full).

As for what set you should go with, that depends on how skilled you are at avoiding damage. If you can make it through difficult fights without any defensive stats then, sure, go with it. If you can’t then you’ll provide more damage over the course of a fight by taking the set with some toughness to help ensure you don’t die halfway through a boss.

Something else to keep in mind is that 5 points in Honor gets you Vigorous Precision, with your crit rate it will give you much more endurance to dodge with which increases the the likelyhood you can avoid damage altogether and not have to stat for survival.

edit: Guardians can still do good damage, but you need to find a way to build survivability into your character since Guardians have a low base HP pool (despite having heavy armor). Altruistic Healing is the most popular method since:

1) It’s passive
2) It rewards you for supporting your team, which Guardians are great at anyway.
3) It has synergy with traits like Empowering Might and Vigorous Precision. If crits start providing boons to yourself and your team and providing boons to anyone heals you, then crit chance almost becomes a survivability stat.

It also doesn’t help that, for being the “damage” tree, Zeal doesn’t provide that much of a damage boost.

Damage builds are viable with life steal food. Without it, it worthless.

Norjena.5172:

U will fall like a flie in melee Combat. And Warrios will laugh about your dmg.

GC Guard is Fail, u can´t reach warrios dmg, and will lose everything what a Guardian makes to be a Guardian.

Painful but true, more then 10 Points in Zeal is a waste, a rly big waste.

Pretty much this is true.

Norjena.5172:

Painful but true, more then 10 Points in Zeal is a waste, a rly big waste.

IYHO; not necessarily for everybody else (even though it’s a popular opinion). Also, I doubt the OP wants to have “warrior-like” DPS, so it’s ok for him to go for maximum damage and zeal.

Though I am one who plays supportive “roles” most of the time, I don’t see how a Guardian that goes 30 Zeal is “not a Guardian” anymore, but rather a poor man’s Warrior.

I wouldn’t go maximum damage myself for personal playstyle issues (dangerously squishy for what I do, plus too lacking in healing power), but if others want to go for it, why not?

(Edited to add: most of the advice above is sound; I was just noting that for some players, 30 Zeal may be OK if they know what they are doing. Also, Zealous Blade’s healing is 26, not 25… :P AH is great, but not everybody has to use it by default.)

I play my Guard with 253% Critdmg (no ascended items). On a 0/5/30/30/5 build. Im sure i will deal more dmg then every “ZealBuild” (Zealdmg Boost is rly low, most of the Traits are rly weak) and im harder to kill because of AH.

And my Group Support is better too.

So my is Build better. If u rly want pure dmg, u have to search a Warrior. I´d like the Idea of a dps Guard, but at the moment there is no way to build one viable.

Brutalys 1000hours review show us where the problems are. He is right with his opinion.

Thank You for all your answers.
Right now im using this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUEQNAS7elYgyCXFSKEm4ERWhVi9AjVsjXPSoDZIA
But Im not sure about using scepter and shield, how do you think which weapon could be better ?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAR7flYgyCXFyMEm4ERVh4hpAjZ86BFdIDB
What do you think about this build? and which armor would be the best ?

Norjena, what weapons do you use ?

AH is at a conundrum-the way to balance it so that other traits seem more desirable is to make its healing very dependant on Healing Power (that would make sense to me), BUT since many people are still addicted to it and don’t play anything else, I can imagine the uproar (Guardian nerfed again, why!?) Making other Grandmaster traits stronger won’t (IMHO, and from what I see here on the forums) dissuade people from using AH (if Zealous Blade healed for 30 per hit, would many of you still use it?… exactly.)

That said, no, AH is not needed to survive, do good damage, or enjoy GW2 as a Guardian. It is but one of the many traits to use, and it’s good to try the others to see if they fit you-it is perfectly valid to prefer AH, but pretty close-minded to claim that it’s the only viable way to play your guardian just because that’s the only trait you would use.

I mean no offense, and respect your right to play whichever way you see fit, AH or otherwise.

Kamil.1039:

Norjena, what weapons do you use ?

All^^, depending on the Situation. But most times i use the Greatsword/Staff Combination.

Kamil, this build is for PvE right? In that case you should get in the habit of keeping a variety of weapons available to swap out between encounters. If you know there’s a fight coming up that encourages ranged combat then feel free to swap in a scepter. If there’s a fight coming up that poses no danger to you and/or needs a lot of AoE then scepters probably aren’t your best choice. The more you play the more you’ll get a feel for which weapons are best suited to different situations, depending on your play style.

One of the benefits of a trait build that doesn’t focus on boosting specific weapon types is you can swap out weapons to to fit the encounter and not waste any traits. With the latest build you showed off the only trait you could potentially miss out on depending on your weapon setup is Two-Handed Mastery, which you can easily swap to Empowering Might between fights.

edit: I’d say that’s one of the most important things to keep in mind in this game. Major traits, utility skills, elite skills, healing skills, and equipment can be swapped out almost at will for a reason. There’s nothing wrong with temporarily using something that’s highly situational because you can swap it out as soon as the fight’s over. Don’t feel like you need to commit yourself to a single setup, the game encourages experimentation and flexibility.

I run a 10/30/20/10/0 build for ‘DPS’ in PvE, please ignore the stats and gear on the link. I run a mix of Soldiers, Zerkers, Valks and Knights gear. Going minimum 16K hp and 2.8K armor. I tried to optimize gear to push Power and Crit higher but maintain the hp and armor. Currently 3k Attack, 73% crit and 45% crit damage. Omnom Pies and Master Maintenance Oil are essential to this build. Pies are your source of healing but allow you to stay in melee for a good amount of time. This is currently my favorite build. I miss the full AoE of GSword but you just need to play with positioning to get good AoE with Sword.

There is no DPS meter here (thankfully) so we don’t really have a good way to compare classes and builds. My way is to test kill time on golem sets in the Mists. I’ve taken GC thief, guard and warrior through and although guard can’t burst like thieves and warriors we can probably maintain a good competitive damage output.

GL
Blood~

Norjena.5172:

I play my Guard with 253% Critdmg (no ascended items). On a 0/5/30/30/5 build. Im sure i will deal more dmg then every “ZealBuild” (Zealdmg Boost is rly low, most of the Traits are rly weak) and im harder to kill because of AH.

253% crit damage? what the???

I didnt know this was possible..

Zerker gear? ruby orbs? zerker jewlery and weapons?

150% is normal, and then 103% through traits+gear. Zerkeramor/Weapon (2 Rings are Valkyrie), Rune of Divinity.

Typo…. giving him the benefit of the doubt. =]

FYI, your +CritDmg is 103% ~not 150% + 103%~ And no, you won’t deal more dmg then ~every zeal build~ out there. Not w/ 3k attk pwr. You’re barely breaking 4k Mighty Blows on non glass cannon lvl 80’s.

I have a couple DPS builds that I use and they’re great. Don’t listen to the people who can’t figure it out. check out the video’s in my sig.

Food buffs and run Meditations (thanks again Bash!), not AH. You’ll be plesently surprised.

Try 20/25/0/25/0.

You get a bit of health, heals on dodge, Empowering Might, base 25% extra damage with a Greatsword, 35% if your endurance isn’t full.
Gear is full Berserker with Rune of Strength, Sigil of Force.

That goes up to 45% extra damage with a Greatsword, 48% crit chance and 60% crit damage.
I think it’s either slightly stronger or weaker than you using a 30/30/10/0/0 build (probably weaker). Since we don’t have many utilities for damage, and if you don’t mind running without utilities, use Signet of Bane and Judgment for damage and protection. “Save Yourselves” is another good option for Fury.

And like Amins said, don’t take granted what people say about Zeal without a thought. Power is the best damage increasing attribute you can get by far.
A 5% extra Greatsword damage is also priceless as it scales with your total damage, so don’t disregard it. Any bonus of % damage is highly valued if you want maximum damage.

Amins.3710:

Typo…. giving him the benefit of the doubt. =]

FYI, your +CritDmg is 103% ~not 150% + 103%~

I.

I think he’s refering to the quote from the wiki about C.Damage:
“Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack. Critical Damage is added to the damage multiplier as a percentage. For example, 50 (+50%) Critical Damage results in 200% damage multiplier on critical hits.”

With your Zealbuilds u lose -20% CD on 2h weapons and Empowering Might. Which increases your DPS and the DPS of your partymembers too! 3-5Stacks for 3 or more people are better then Power out of Zeal.
And u lose dmg at low endurance too..and Support for your Team.

I can easy take 5 points out of Virtues and Radiance to get Fiery Wrath. Another Problem is, Radiance is a good dmg increase (Radiant Power and Precision) OK, but for 2handed Weapons all Majortraits are sucky.
Honor does have a lot of good Traits like i said.

And your Dmg will still be less compared to a Warrior. And the Warrior will stay easier in Meleecombat.

Dmgformula: Power* K*(Critchanche*Critdmg).
20 Power
2020*(10.5*1.50)=3535

20 Precision [~1% more CritChanche]
2000*(10.6*1.5)=3800

So 1Precision will give u more dmg then 1 Power. At 150% Critdmg.

People are still (as always) forgetting the most important factor:
Player skill.
Sure there are builds that might be better in regards to min/maxing, but in the hands of a kittenty player, they are not worth much.
The build only has a certain amount of influence on the outcome, the rest is up the player. Pretty much every build can be countered in some way.

I see people stating that AH is a must? Seriously? With clerics jewelry and 30 in Honor you’ll heal for approximately 1k each dodge. Vigorious Precision will grant you a lot of vigor, as will Save Yourselves if equipped. Use sigils of energy and i’d say you have a pretty strong and reliable healing source without AH.
Sure you can go AH as well, but fact is that you will lack dmg compared to other power-specced builds.

U forget the Critdmg Bonus from speccing Valor.
And some Builds are better then others.

The power u get from Zeal, is weaker then the Might for u and your Team u get from Empowering Might.
Except, u have got a Party with perma 25Stacks of Might for all.

I think there’s maybe one person in this entire thread that said to absolutely not put lots of points in Zeal? I don’t know where this whole “HOW DARE YOU PEOPLE SAY YOU HAVE TO TAKE AH” thing is coming from. The only reason I even mentioned AH at all was because the OP had taken Zealous Blades and already had 20 points in Valor. I figured it’d be a more efficient use of trait points to throw out ZB and pick up AH while accomplishing the same thing the OP was trying to do with that trait slot (healing their-self).

Regardless of your opinion on traiting for damage over survivability, we should all be able to agree that AH is better for survivability than Zealous Blades is (assuming we’re talking about dungeons, which I did. If this is just for solo/outdoor content then trait build doesn’t really matter at the end of the day, you’ll tear everything apart anyway). If the OP hadn’t picked a trait that serves no purpose other than to help you live longer then I probably wouldn’t have even mentioned AH. Then again maybe I would have, they said they’re new to the class and it can’t hurt to offer suggestions that may help. No need to throw a fit over it.

Anyway, in response to Kris’ above post, I’d be interested in seeing a damage comparison between a character with Cleric jewelry and traits focused on “damage” vs a character with AH and jewelry focused on damage. My gut says that the gear would make more of a difference in damage dealt than the traits would.

Any DPS build needs as many damage multipliers (straight % bonuses) as possible and Empowering Might with high critical percentage. Fiery Wrath and Radiant Power are your best bets for multipliers. Empowering Might is a major DPS increase. Stack Berserker armor and trinkets, use maintenance oil and omnom pies, and enjoy. You’ll heal more than an AH build as long as you are attacking, and your healing will scale with the number of enemies present rather than the number of allies, which makes it viable solo as well.

Use a Sigil of Blood for additional healing and damage on crit.

Sigil of Blood has got a 5Second CD, Tooltip is wrong. And AH Builds can use this Food too.
And u will lose 30% of Critdmg, to get 10% Dmg and Precision (AH Builds can take Fiery Wrath too)….(don´t forget that u will lose ~4% Critchance from Retributive Amor, and 2 will have 2-3 for 2h Weapons useless Major Traits in Radiance).

And 1h Weapons are dealing less dmg, espacially if u want to do AoE. What mean, u will get less healing (from Food) too.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Amins.3710:

Typo…. giving him the benefit of the doubt. =]

FYI, your +CritDmg is 103% ~not 150% + 103%~

I.

I think he’s refering to the quote from the wiki about C.Damage:
“Critical hits have a base damage multiplier of 150% to the base damage of the attack. Critical Damage is added to the damage multiplier as a percentage. For example, 50 (+50%) Critical Damage results in 200% damage multiplier on critical hits.”

ah, must have missed the reference.

Using 20/25/0/20/5 so a bit similiar to Danicco.3568, i like getting protection from virtue of courage. Full zerker with ruby orbs. If you think you gonna die every 10s, you play this game like other mmos. Stop it.

Kamil.1039:

I tried to make build with greastword, to make as high damage as its possible
So here it is

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUEQNAR7flYg67WGSNEm4Ehli/RwqHx7e27ShDpIA

elite and utility skills can be changed, but the question is which armor set would be better ( and which elite/utility skills would be better )

• power precision and critical damage
  or
  *power precision thoughness

Im looking for honest answer, im not really expierienced guardian ( just started to play )

You might like this one

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Furious-Knight-Built-WvW-Solo-Burst

Make sure to read everything There’s a footage video at the end of it

Norjena.5172:

With your Zealbuilds u lose -20% CD on 2h weapons and Empowering Might. Which increases your DPS and the DPS of your partymembers too! 3-5Stacks for 3 or more people are better then Power out of Zeal.
And u lose dmg at low endurance too..and Support for your Team.

Dmgformula: Power* K*(Critchanche*Critdmg).
20 Power
2020*(10.5*1.50)=3535

20 Precision [~1% more CritChanche]
2000*(10.6*1.5)=3800

So 1Precision will give u more dmg then 1 Power. At 150% Critdmg.

I don’t know why your Guardian can’t spec points in Zeal and Honor, but mine can, so I can get Empowering Might and whatever I want from Zeal. Maybe you want to see what’s wrong with your Guardian if you can’t.

And your math is wrong, I don’t know where you pulled this formula, but for Precision to be more valuable than Power you need at least 1.72 Critical Damage.
This is not point by point, but every 21 points, because since Crit Chance is rounded up, you might lose points if you don’t get the extra 1%.

And I repeat, 20/25/0/25 is the (one of the) highest damage builds you can get (get Empowering Might and dodge every now and then for extra damage), along with 30/30/10 (less survivability, but do use Signets for maximum damage).
Sigil of Force, Superior Rune of Strength.

Although people always compare a Guardian to a Warriors and mention how they’re stronger and such, they only have Hundred Blades that really makes up the damage. Our auto-attack is way stronger than theirs, with our Wrathful Strike (GS 3rd hit) being really strong.

Whirling Wrath isn’t a damage increase if you don’t hit all the projectiles (or some, dunno how many), it takes 3~4 seconds for a 2~3k damage if you don’t hit it inside the monster, while a single Wrathful Strike hits for 1500~1700 on the same monster.
If you can get inside the monster you might see a 5~7k though, but that’s really unreliable imo with most monsters moving around.

Doesn’t Axe/Mace deal more damage than GS for Warriors anyway?

Danicco.3568:

And your math is wrong, I don’t know where you pulled this formula, but for Precision to be more valuable than Power you need at least 1.72 Critical Damage.
This is not point by point, but every 21 points, because since Crit Chance is rounded up, you might lose points if you don’t get the extra 1%.

My math’s not really right too, I calculated assuming a 3k power Guardian, but depending on how much Power you have, you need a different Crit Damage for Precision to be better than Power.
Maybe someone more mathematically inclined can show how to calculate this…

U have no Idea how much dmg Warrios can do, Axe Autohit can do more then 6k dmg (Chain 3), 3 Hits in 1,5sek! 4k+ are normal without 20+Stacks of Might.
And u can play Axe/Sword (5 is a Block 15sek CD) for example to avoid dmg. Axe Offhand 1kittens in 3 1/2 Sec with Food….2-3 monsters and u can heal your complete health.

Warrios GS is stronger too, u forget Whirlwind Attack. And HB, 30k+ in 3,5sec, is not rare.

I play both professions as mainclasses. And i know what dmg both can do, and Guards are far behind.

But i will test your build, for a week or so.

Norjena.5172:

Sigil of Blood has got a 5Second CD, Tooltip is wrong. And AH Builds can use this Food too.
And u will lose 30% of Critdmg, to get 10% Dmg and Precision (AH Builds can take Fiery Wrath too)….(don´t forget that u will lose ~4% Critchance from Retributive Amor, and 2 will have 2-3 for 2h Weapons useless Major Traits in Radiance).

And 1h Weapons are dealing less dmg, espacially if u want to do AoE. What mean, u will get less healing (from Food) too.

What is your contention, exactly? That an AH build will do as much damage as a DPS build with Radiant Power and Fiery Wrath by virtue of 30% more critical damage? Or that the survivability of an AH build offsets any DPS advantage of a straight damage build? Or something else?

foofad.5162:

That an AH build will do as much damage as a DPS build with Radiant Power and Fiery Wrath by virtue of 30% more critical damage? Or that the survivability of an AH build offsets any DPS advantage of a straight damage build? Or something else?

Not as much dmg, but rly close. And then the second, advantage offset. Because Warriors do so much more dmg. That´s the reason why i think, a DPS Guard is not neccesary, or possibel bad.

But i will run a dps build now.

“Profession X does more damage than I do, so I won’t care about damage at all” – What sort of logic is this?

I’m So confused.

He first says DPS guardians basically suck / warriors will laugh at them.

Then goes on to say his DPS is Better.

Then go on to say DPS Guard is not neccesary & ‘possibly bad (?)’.

Then “I will run a DPS build now”….

/boggle

I just want to test it, that´s the reason.

Amins.3710:

I’m So confused.

He first says DPS guardians basically suck / warriors will laugh at them.

Then goes on to say his DPS is Better.

Then go on to say DPS Guard is not neccesary & ‘possibly bad (?)’.

Then “I will run a DPS build now”….

/boggle

This !

This thread is making me giggle lolol

I have 2 Guardians both level 80 and both of them Exoticed out(aside from a few Trinkets that are yellows) but I run one of my Guards Damage Speced. Speced for Damage Bonuses with decent Crit Damage (56 Crit Damage). (10/30/5/25/). Currently atm Gear has been redone a few times but hoping to change it again a bit perhaps. Zerk Armor, with knights armor mix, 6 set of Superior Rune of FLame Legion, and Valk Trinkets. I can say roughly I can hit for 3,5k on GS 3rd Chain hit on Crit.Also Taking points in Blind inflicts Vuln also Amps it. Though regular Autos hit for 2.k each. Whirl can spike from 5k to 8k from my experiences. You still have better teamsupport and utility via virtues, and depending on utilities(WoR, Fire Fields, Condition Removal with light field. ETC) Also Side note, Life Steal Foods is essential if you ever want to survive a lot longer and not just fall on your face vs multiple enemies.

With 25 Stacks Might and Vulnerability i was able to hit the Priest of Grenth for over 6k with GS Chain 3.

Thats rly not bad.
But im missing Inspired Virtue for exmaple.

Glass cannons in my experience ironically works best as WvW builds, where you are supposed to die fast with 20people shooting at you.
I tried them in dunguens, died too much. Dont want to try it in Spvp, i dont do spvp and i feel it wouldnt work well there.

Some points to consider though. 25 points in Radiance is most likely a must for glass cannon builds for Radiant power which is an easy 10% damage increase most of the time.

Havent tried empowering might or 2 hand mastery. But i feel that the increased crit damage is at least as good and opens up to ah and mf.

At the end of the day. Its the interesting debate of whether you should take damage over survivability or the other way around.

But with that said, you balance guards need to get the idea that you guys deal similar damage to glass cannon guards out of your head.

These are your stats:
“By all means play the class the way you want. Just note that it isn’t going to be effective. No matter how good a “dps” guardian seems, a balance will always outshine it. My Stats just to brag: 3050 Attack, 3100 Armor, 70% Crit Damage, 31% Crit Chance, 17k Life. No Food either. Not only am I more “tanky” but I dish out practically dish out the same dps. "
From Archer: in a post really similar to this one

Here is mine(screenshot at bottom) doing stats achieved doing pretty much every trick possible in the book:

With this information now i feel we can do a damage comparison now

Firstly ill make things simple by counting 10 hits from both guards. Under the assumption that they only auto attack, use the same weapon etc. And also to make the math easier. Ill pretend that 3000attack translates to 100 damage hits. Yes………because i hate math.
And also ill take the liberty to round things up when i feel like it again to make things even more easy.

Easy math of Damage of Archer , balance guardian in 10 hits=
100 × 10 = 1000 damage without counting crit + crit damage
70% crit damage = 170 damage on crit
crit chance 30% = 3/10 hits crit = 510 damage
So final damage = 700 + 510 damage
=1210 damage
You might think thats not too bad

Damage by Glass cannon me with killer offense stats + damage multiplier with traits:

3800 attack compared to 3000. 3000 attack = 100 damage. Extra 800 damage = roughly 20% more damage = 120 damage per hit
120 × 10 = 1200…………..the comparison could actually end right here

crit damage = 105%, im lazy ill pretend its 100 = 1200 x2 = 2400 per hit
Do notice my close to 100% crit rate……………………ill assume it crits 10/10 in 10 hits
2400 × 10 = 2400

Its not over yet though………
10% extra damage from fiery wrath. 10% more from radiant power. 5% more greatsword power. = 25% percentage increase
2400 × 125% = 3000

Again im lazy and ill pretend that i dont get vulnerability stacks on my target with traited blind. Or actually ill just use it to cover up what damage balance guards get from stuff like empowering might.

Compare 1200 damage with 3000 damage.

Conclusion: Your damage and my damage. Not even close man!

Now with these numbers in mind carry on the discussion of Offense with 0 survivability VS Defense with no damage.

Amins.3710:

Typo…. giving him the benefit of the doubt. =]

FYI, your +CritDmg is 103% ~not 150% + 103%~ And no, you won’t deal more dmg then ~every zeal build~ out there. Not w/ 3k attk pwr. You’re barely breaking 4k Mighty Blows on non glass cannon lvl 80’s.

I have a couple DPS builds that I use and they’re great. Don’t listen to the people who can’t figure it out. check out the video’s in my sig.

Food buffs and run Meditations (thanks again Bash!), not AH. You’ll be plesently surprised.

Wait what am i getting thanked for? I was half reading the thread and noticed my name lol. Also I have a new build you might be interested in, once I get the time ill make a post in your thread about it.

On topic edit: its actually a GS focused build! 30/25/10/0/5 ill give the details when im not on my phone, please dont shun me until then!

Add Fiery Wrath ( and 100 more Power), ~15% more Critchance (without Fury, with u can add 20% more, your Build will not benefit from it, or used it already) and 30% more Critdmg to your first calculation.

U will see that it can get close (~20% dmg less). Don´t do math to get numbers you want to see. Do it correct. Only use complete un/buffed Stats, beacuse all Buffs can get from both builds.

The only thing im impressed is your Critchance (rly high), and Power (a litte bit, im at 3500 with offensive Build 20 Points in Zeal with stacked Bloodlust). No Food. No Mightstacks.

Im sure now, you were right and i was false, Guardians DPS can be good.

Dmg Diffrence are based of the Build. 200 Power 15% flat dmg increase. 200 Precision (~10% Critchance), 10% flat dmg increase. But 30% more Critdmg for the AH Build (and ~4% Critchance)
If u compare 0/5/30/30/5 with 20/25/0/25/0.

5% flat dmg increase and 100 Power, 250 Precision and 10% flat dmg increase. And only 5% more critdmg for the AH Build (but u will lose empowering Might and 10% dmg at low endurance).

If u compare 10/0/30/30/0 with 20/25/25/0/0 (possibel max DPS Specc, but im not sure)
And some others. Are still out there, the signetbuild is for me no Option. It want my Slotskills to be teamplay/support based. Guardians Slotskills are msot times to useful to use signets.

So i think we can say, 30Valor and 30 Honor AH Builds does about 20-30% (only a Number, not a calculation) less DPS then a DPS Build.

Today i will do some DPS Tests on risen Giants so figure out how big the diffrence between Guards and Warrios are.