Guild Wars 2

ArchonWing.9480:

I admit that I’m using the “selfish” melandru rune set since I found burning all my cooldowns to clear off constant condi pressure to be utterly futile.

I have no idea why…but this bit here at the end reminded me of the pvp girl friend left me all is vain thread. Never the less, I got a chuckle.

Thanks

Tryble.6819:

It’d be cooler if they dropped it somewhat and had us grant a portion of it to nearby allies, like Strength in Numbers. Group vitality buff, even though its also passive, would be pretty snazzy.

The only problem with that, is if they run away from their source of free vit, they’ll drop however many thousands of hp, which could pre-emptively trigger HP% traits or outright kill them. A softer version of Unyielding Aura trolling that happened in GW1 PvP. (Unyielding Aura acted similar to Mesmer’s Illusion of Life, except it was permanent at the cost of energy regen. A Monk could rez his whole team throughout the fight with UA, but then if he happened to get spiked or lost all energy, 4+ people just died at once, usually causing a TPK. Was fun, but not the best of ideas.)

Crapgame.6519:

ArchonWing.9480:

I admit that I’m using the “selfish” melandru rune set since I found burning all my cooldowns to clear off constant condi pressure to be utterly futile.

I have no idea why…but this bit here at the end reminded me of the pvp girl friend left me all is vain thread. Never the less, I got a chuckle.

Thanks

You’re welcome. :p

Truth is when people complain about low health, it’s not low health in itself, but as you brought up earlier, conditions do a number that really hurts. Guardian condition removal isn’t bad, but it requires significant investment with the exception of maybe like purity— so naturally I guess if you spec really tanky, it doesn’t seem so bad but try to go outside and it becomes entirely troublesome which is why zeal is so unpopular. Radiance at least gives you blinds. Zeal… is schizo and the fact that traits like kindled zeal are pretty worrisome.

Which I would admit they don’t really address the problem by adding a hp trait. People go deep into honor for Pure of Voice, not really because it’s good, but it’s pretty much the defacto condition removal aside from the virtues line. PoV may look good if you add soldier runes, but talk about pigeonholing. Virtues tree is good too, but it’s hard to delve into there without becoming too fragile, which again comes down to the crap health problem. The other options such as meditation condition removal are way too selfish and thus aren’t popular except for small man/pvp play. Signets can remove conditions too, but are even more selfish.

Now, it’s certainly not as big of a joke as Ranger condition management, though that’s not really a standard to look after.

It’s not too hard to come up with a defensive support build. Coming up with an offensive build that maintains good support is hard, except in pve.

If that gives any one ideas for other traits, that’s where we can look.

ArchonWing.9480:

Crapgame.6519:

ArchonWing.9480:

I admit that I’m using the “selfish” melandru rune set since I found burning all my cooldowns to clear off constant condi pressure to be utterly futile.

I have no idea why…but this bit here at the end reminded me of the pvp girl friend left me all is vain thread. Never the less, I got a chuckle.

Thanks

You’re welcome. :p

Truth is when people complain about low health, it’s not low health in itself, but as you brought up earlier, conditions do a number that really hurts. Guardian condition removal isn’t bad, but it requires significant investment with the exception of maybe like purity— so naturally I guess if you spec really tanky, it doesn’t seem so bad but try to go outside and it becomes entirely troublesome which is why zeal is so unpopular. Radiance at least gives you blinds. Zeal… is schizo and the fact that traits like kindled zeal are pretty worrisome.

Which I would admit they don’t really address the problem by adding a hp trait. People go deep into honor for Pure of Voice, not really because it’s good, but it’s pretty much the defacto condition removal aside from the virtues line. PoV may look good if you add soldier runes, but talk about pigeonholing. Virtues tree is good too, but it’s hard to delve into there without becoming too fragile, which again comes down to the crap health problem. The other options such as meditation condition removal are way too selfish and thus aren’t popular except for small man/pvp play. Signets can remove conditions too, but are even more selfish.

Now, it’s certainly not as big of a joke as Ranger condition management, though that’s not really a standard to look after.

It’s not too hard to come up with a defensive support build. Coming up with an offensive build that maintains good support is hard, except in pve.

If that gives any one ideas for other traits, that’s where we can look.

It doesn’t seem to matter how many times we discuss this. Anet just isn’t hearing us. I do agree with you, We have viable builds, but its all or nothing most of the time.

Want to be good at DPS in pve: We got a build, but due to our low hp its very unforgiving to people who want to learn it. Lots of active defense and timing of blinds blocks, reflects. Easy once you get used to it

Want to be a good bunker: Well we got a good build for that to, just don’t expect to kill anyone by yourself

The list goes go on and on.

We can do almost anything but to be great at it we give up way to much. If Anet ever gets this, maybe we will get the right kinda buffs in the right places. But I think they are happy because “Guardians are in a good place.” That seems to be there answer for us everytime we ask for something.

Talyn.3295:

“Guardians are in a good place.” That seems to be there answer for us everytime we ask for something.

Yeah, kinda getting sick of hearing it. And not just from A-net. Guardians are in a good place because they have a viable build in each aspect of the game, yet the issue is that we only excel at pretty much that one build per game mode.

Talyn.3295:

We can do almost anything but to be great at it we give up way to much. If Anet ever gets this, maybe we will get the right kinda buffs in the right places. But I think they are happy because “Guardians are in a good place.” That seems to be there answer for us everytime we ask for something.

Actually, what you describe is very much being in a good place. You can do anything you like, but specializing too far has diminishing returns. You can still be that hyper-specialist, but that opens up new weaknesses, as specializing should. Sounds like a great place balance-wise to me.

Warriors shouldn’t be compared to at all because they give up very little to be fantastic at multiple things simultaneously. They aren’t in a good spot, they’re way beyond it.

@Bash: I’m pretty sure there are multiple viable Guardian builds per game mode. The issue then is “is a Guardian filling this role better than someone else could.” Those builds are still viable, just not optimal.

Crapgame.6519:

Bash.7291:

I really do not think the lower health pool is a true weakness, I think the main issue is that our supposed “amazing base defenses” have turned into garbage due to the power creep and buffing of other classes. But yeah, that is another discussion.

Actually, your point here would be a valid argument, point, and discussion.

Well, as I have said, and obviously others have said as well, the biggest issue with guardian’s defense as that we never got any update on them. VoR and VoC are pretty much the biggest offenders of this. VoC is extremely situational, and almost useless in certain areas. In large scale PvP it is a complete waste due to any AoE tick destroying it. Yes, in a 1v1 it can save you from a big hit, in PvE it is useful just due to running zerkers and having to time blocks. but anything beyond 1 target it can too easily get removed. Also, if A-net is listening ALLOW IT TO REMOVE THIEVES FROM STEALTH. this has been one my biggest issues for a long time. Why does the thief get to just remove it, then backstab like it never existed? Just makes 0 sense to me.

Vor in itself is just a very very weak heal. Granted, it is free, but the fact that other classes, such as warrior, mesmer, elementalist and engineer can either trait or skill, or both for MUCH MUCH better versions is rather annoying. Yes, they have to invest to get these bonuses while we get it free, however almost every single spec goes into those trees regardless, with engineer being I believe the only one that traits it as a major. The issue tough is that we are penalized with the lowest health pool in the game, sub par mobility, and being required to spec heavily into condition removal due to a lack of basic tools to deal with them.

One thing I have always felt about guardian is that we are stuck as the all or nothing class. Either we have a massive amount of condition removal, or none, either we go bunker and do little damage or do big damage but are complete glass cannons, and as far as mobility, we either have it or we dont, but the issue is that if we do have it, it comes in bursts, JI is a 30+ second cd at least, Sword #2 has an after cast issue where if the target has swiftness and you don’t you are not even landing the hit from the teleport, and GS leap has a longer CD and has the same issue where if the target has a higher move speed at all it is wasted.

I feel like the “balance” the guardian’s receive because of our virtues is out-dated at this point, simply because alot of classes now have bigger or better versions of it, or that some of them are just simply negated due to the way the game is. Meanwhile, we sit fairly untouched for a better part of a year due to being “in a good place”

Vor in itself is just a very very weak heal.

Would it be viable, with the +300 Vitality from the new Grandmaster trait, to put enough points into the Healing Power stat to make Vor decent?

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

You also know you can already get something very similar with rank abilities, right? And since you mentioned 1 vs. 1 chances are high you already have it because why would you put those points into siege mastery

Again, I believe when people say low health we are talking about a base number and not something you are forced to choose via a trait.

Bash.7291:

I really do not think the lower health pool is a true weakness, I think the main issue is that our supposed “amazing base defenses” have turned into garbage due to the power creep and buffing of other classes. But yeah, that is another discussion.

QFT!!!!!
Wow, did you hit the proverbial nail on the head with a gigantic hammer with this! I’d also like to add that Passive Virtues is a testament to this too.

Painbow.6059:

From a purely PVE perspective, the trait is trash

It’s trash for WvW too.

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

A skilled Thief will melt that 3k in a blink of an eye. Actually, I’m not sure what you’re trying to say here. You sort of contradicted yourself in one sentence. /ponder.

And, I’ve been wondering. Lot of professions are claiming these traits are terrible. It got me to thinking. What if this “news release” is an April Fools joke?

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

Clearly 3k hit points is better than pure of voice in a 1v1 against a non-condition build. I think most of the time conditions are present in a fight in WvW.

styx.7294:

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

Clearly 3k hit points is better than pure of voice in a 1v1 against a non-condition build. I think most of the time conditions are present in a fight in WvW.

I find his comment about been Easy Rally Trashes pretty funny. I ran with my Guild in WvW the other night for over 4 hours and only died once, without this wonderful trait he is talking about. Funny that time I was salvaging and I missed my guild commander say “We are floating to BGBL” By the time I realized my guild had waypointed 9 JQ had jumped out of the tower we were thinking of taking and had me in combat. That 3k health wouldn’t have made any difference.

PoV is better in almost every WvW case. Because it allows for us to remove conditions from ourselves and our Party. The 3k health is selfish and will only help us. Also PoV will remove chill, cripple, immobilize etc.

I think people need to think things through before they start calling people out.

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

If you lose to Thieves 1v1 on a Guardian you don’t play WvW enough…

styx.7294:

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

Clearly 3k hit points is better than pure of voice in a 1v1 against a non-condition build. I think most of the time conditions are present in a fight in WvW.

I would take 3k hit points tbh 1v1 against a condi build. I wouldn’t take triple shouts in a 1v1.

PoV is of course, better, the more people are around. Though this is sort of a duh since shouts work best in a group. So my point is moot.

I think Anet’s thinking is “well, you said you have low HP and lose to condition damage so maybe more health will help you tank it out”. Problem is that condition damage is not just pure damage. Stuff like immobilized, cripple, chilled, and fear cannot be “tanked” and may end up in your death.

Would they suck it up , nerf the health to like 7% of power goes to vitality, and send it over to Master? Or maybe they could reduce the hp given by a lot and merge it with Battle Presence, repackaging it as a new skill. But then they would be listening so I’m just delusional for even typing this.

Talyn.3295:

styx.7294:

Aomine.5012:

BTW, anyone says 3k hp is nothing clearly never fight a good thief 1 on 1 in WvW, or even play WvW enough…

Go back to your sweet PVE and enjoy slaughtering noob AI with your loving PPCrit.
Please don’t come to WvW to be easy Rally Trashes that benefit foes more than your team.

Clearly 3k hit points is better than pure of voice in a 1v1 against a non-condition build. I think most of the time conditions are present in a fight in WvW.

I find his comment about been Easy Rally Trashes pretty funny. I ran with my Guild in WvW the other night for over 4 hours and only died once, without this wonderful trait he is talking about. Funny that time I was salvaging and I missed my guild commander say “We are floating to BGBL” By the time I realized my guild had waypointed 9 JQ had jumped out of the tower we were thinking of taking and had me in combat. That 3k health wouldn’t have made any difference.

PoV is better in almost every WvW case. Because it allows for us to remove conditions from ourselves and our Party. The 3k health is selfish and will only help us. Also PoV will remove chill, cripple, immobilize etc.

I think people need to think things through before they start calling people out.

Firstly, I’m not calling anyone’s out. You did.
Secondly, stop assuming Guardian only has ONE build. (Shout build is not everything)
There’s time when you need to bring more concentration or mediation, that shout probably won’t be on your skill bar.

Yeah you can say if you don’t bring shouts, why bother going for honor?
Truth is shout trait is too good that people overlooked the fact that Honor line has things that benefit symbols and other aspects too, and can use that extra grandmaster 3k health to further enhancing your survivability.

There’s reasons for people to add Honor line other than bringing shout. 6k more HP is quite alot for Guardian.

Again, stop assuming shout build is the only build Guardian has… When new things are introduced, people tend to think that it should be STRONGER than ones that were already there, but no, that’s not the intention of new trait. They’re not there to replace the old ones, but to open up new alternative options from the original ones.

So The official traits have been released:

Zeal: 33% extra burning damage
Radiance: Retaliation now scales from condition damage
Valor: Grant aegis to nearby allies when you block.
Honor: 300 Vit
Virtues: VoR now also gives 15% endurance regeneration.

Official image:

http://t.co/dMns6E5QQw

I dunno about you guys, but compared to the Ele’ traits, these seem useless.

Communal Defense would be great if it affected everyone, but I it’s a max of 5 players.

I am so frustrated, they clearly have no idea what they are doing with this profession. The new grand master traits are incredibly bad and show us very clearly that AreaNet are ignoring guardians completely.

I think this is the killing blow for me, i am so sick of guardians getting nothing but nerfs since release while never receiving any significant class changes/balances. Meanwhile in every single update every other profession get super mega massive buffs.

Guardians are not the best class in the game, just because we are in a “okay position” dose not mean we should be ignored while other professions become EXTREMELY OP.

Virtues trait is horrible, honor trait is a waste, valor seems interesting, might be really good in spvp, or maybe even combined with shattered aegis + shelter in a zerg… oh lord that would be funny to watch. Assuming there is no CD

Now, the condition attempt, I am honestly not too sure of. If the retaliation scaling is the same as power, it is a waste. since you can easily get more power than condition damage. The 33% extra burning in damage in zeal didn’t need to be a new trait, it needed to replace kindled zeal, which is if it still there, is going to be beyond idiotic. Now the other issue, to run this new “condition” guard, you have to spec 30/30/x/x/x which means you are going to pretty much be a glass cannon, which makes zero sense for a condition user, since conditions take time. Also, you lose out on 30 virtues for the fire spreading which would actually make the build possibly work. So you could go 30/x/x/x/30 and be able to do decent aoe burning, but at the same time you are still stuck with almost zero defensive traits, and only one condition. These traits should never have been grandmaster, maybe master tier at best. And even then it is still only 2 conditions, which is just not enough for an actual build to invest into.

Honestly, the only change we seems to get since release is ‘’Vigor 5 seconds this, Vigor 10 seconds that, Vigor again 5 seconds, Vigor 10 seconds now’’

Fairly underwhelming for the most part.

Amplified Wrath- Still trying to push the condition builds on guard.

Radiant Retaliation- This one I find the most interesting. Have to see how it plays out.

Communal Defense- Not really that great, since there’s a 15 to 20 second ICD on it. Maybe work well with Pure of Heart.

Force of Will- Already discussed this one.

Purity of Body- Makes up for the nerf to Vigorous Precision, and if you use it with Battle Presence makes it very viable.

Overall they are just pushing condition guard more, which could be viable with all the changes to sigils/runes. We have to wait and see.

Harbinger.8637:

Fairly underwhelming for the most part.

Amplified Wrath- Still trying to push the condition builds on guard.

Radiant Retaliation- This one I find the most interesting. Have to see how it plays out.

Communal Defense- Not really that great, since there’s a 15 to 20 second ICD on it. Maybe work well with Pure of Heart.

Force of Will- Already discussed this one.

Purity of Body- Makes up for the nerf to Vigorous Precision, and if you use it with Battle Presence makes it very viable.

Overall they are just pushing condition guard more, which could be viable with all the changes to sigils/runes. We have to wait and see.

Communal Defense is the best new grandmaster trait. 15cd is NOTHING. You should not be complaining about this. Think about it. Protector’s strike and this trait gives you a guaranteed 2 blocks every 15secs plus aegis for your allies.

I feel incredibly stupid for getting my hopes up, for a moment there i thought maybe in this big features patch ArenaNet would finally take the opportunity to address the many issues this class has… but no, MORE nerfs, and boring/useless grand master talents.

Every other profession has received at least one “omg that’s amazing” trait. Every other profession has received a “oh that’s cool/interesting looks like allot of fun” trait. Guardians get “100% useless” traits, and “meh boring nothing exciting or fun” traits.

Even if guardians were super OP (which they are not) we should still see quality of life improvements, or changes to make this profession more FUN, remember fun? Its something i would like to have when i play this game.

I still want Spirit Weapon fix and perhaps a shield fix, really.

Aza.2105:

Harbinger.8637:

Fairly underwhelming for the most part.

Amplified Wrath- Still trying to push the condition builds on guard.

Radiant Retaliation- This one I find the most interesting. Have to see how it plays out.

Communal Defense- Not really that great, since there’s a 15 to 20 second ICD on it. Maybe work well with Pure of Heart.

Force of Will- Already discussed this one.

Purity of Body- Makes up for the nerf to Vigorous Precision, and if you use it with Battle Presence makes it very viable.

Overall they are just pushing condition guard more, which could be viable with all the changes to sigils/runes. We have to wait and see.

Communal Defense is the best new grandmaster trait. 15cd is NOTHING. You should not be complaining about this. Think about it. Protector’s strike and this trait gives you a guaranteed 2 blocks every 15secs plus aegis for your allies.

Sure it sounds nice, but are you really going to give up AH or MF for this. Most people won’t. Another thing you have to think about is Aegis doesn’t stack, so it could proc when you already have Aegis.

It’s an ok trait, not something I’d go Grandmaster for. Also I’m mistaken, it’s 20 seconds not 15 seconds.

Honestly, after watching the stream, i might just be done with my guardian. The trait changes we got are not going to change any builds, and once again we got zero quality of life changes because we are “in a good place”

It’s interesting they finally managed to come up with a new Aegis source and that in a way very close to what I always wished for (on block trigger). I still do think it could simply recharge Virtue of Courage on block, that would open up Courageous Return for a remake to something useful.
Anyway it may be the first step towards a valid “blocking” build, something like mace/focus + Defender’s Flame + Guardian Runes, but I’m pretty certain it still won’t be enough.

Bash.7291:

Honestly, after watching the stream, i might just be done with my guardian. The trait changes we got are not going to change any builds, and once again we got zero quality of life changes because we are “in a good place”

You’ve been playing Guardian for too long. Spend some time on another class for a while and you’ll see why Guardians are being left alone for the most part.

The changes mostly seem to be potential buffs for bunker guardians or front line guardians in WvW. They don’t seem to really revolutionize anything, but not many of the traits for other professions did anyways.

Althalos.6734:

It’s interesting they finally managed to come up with a new Aegis source and that in a way very close to what I always wished for (on block trigger). I still do think it could simply recharge Virtue of Courage on block, that would open up Courageous Return for a remake to something useful.
Anyway it may be the first step towards a valid “blocking” build, something like mace/focus + Defender’s Flame + Guardian Runes, but I’m pretty certain it still won’t be enough.

It got a 20 seconds CD.

Very sorely disappointed. I was really hoping for somethign to help passive Virtues. I dunno why I’m disappointedt though because once again we’re “in a good place”.

Time to lay down GW2 for a bit. Hello ESO my new friend.

Farzo.8410:

Althalos.6734:

It’s interesting they finally managed to come up with a new Aegis source and that in a way very close to what I always wished for (on block trigger). I still do think it could simply recharge Virtue of Courage on block, that would open up Courageous Return for a remake to something useful.
Anyway it may be the first step towards a valid “blocking” build, something like mace/focus + Defender’s Flame + Guardian Runes, but I’m pretty certain it still won’t be enough.

It got a 20 seconds CD.

Yea, I know, that’s why I wrote it may be a first step, but won’t be enough, 10 would be just right. I don’t really know how exactly the game mechanics around Aegis work, but with this trait Aegis may actually proc another Aegis (not just stack duration) making our Virtue of Courage essentially a double block instead of a single one.

The people that have been playing guard long enough can see this coming. There’s a power creep going on, and they’re not doing anything to address it on Guardian. Sure we are in a good place now, but that’s about to change. They say sigils and runes will balance it out, but I find that hard to believe. Also throw in the fact that Guardian is very stale doesn’t help either.

I’ve been playing Guardian since launch, this is the first time I’ve ever felt this way, and honestly I just want to quit or reroll. I’ll try remain optimistic, and save all judgment until after the patch.

The question for Communal Defense now is:
Does blocking using Aegis boon(or Passive Courage) create another copy of Aegis immediately on you(and your allies)?

Because that would mean double block on every Passive Courage which triggers every 40s(and one time activation at 20s mark from any other active blocking source).

Then add in any Aegis or Blocking traits(heal on removal, might stacks on block), along with activating Virtue of Courage and Retreat, and you have yourself something that could potentially party-wide block a lot of 1-hits from any boss in PvE, or even survive two-backstabs in WvW without taking damage at all.

Let’s say the trait activates when you block with Aegis while using Virtue of Courage. You get a party-wide block(which triggers a block on you) which creates a second party-wide block. Nifty.

Unfortunately, it is located deep into the most hated trait line of Guardians, Valor.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Very sorely disappointed. I was really hoping for somethign to help passive Virtues. I dunno why I’m disappointedt though because once again we’re “in a good place”.

Time to lay down GW2 for a bit. Hello ESO my new friend.

Have you tried any of the ESO PvP? Just wondering. The PvE side frustrated me to no end which for me is a means to the end which is PvP…

Bash.7291:

So The official traits have been released:

Zeal: 33% extra burning damage
Radiance: Retaliation now scales from condition damage
Valor: Grant aegis to nearby allies when you block.
Honor: 300 Vit
Virtues: VoR now also gives 15% endurance regeneration.

They need to change blocking mechanics for this (in my opinion) to be any good. Focus is about the best off hand for this but it yet again leaves the shield out in the dark

Wonder if it would be possible to do a Radiance/Zeal build because I have one heck of a condition build/gear set. Wonder how it will scale or to what relationship between the amount of condition. It would make torch worthwhile more so if you can pick up Zeals new beastie.

Everything else, meh. This dates back to December 10th’s just wait post

Dahkeus.8243:

Bash.7291:

Honestly, after watching the stream, i might just be done with my guardian. The trait changes we got are not going to change any builds, and once again we got zero quality of life changes because we are “in a good place”

You’ve been playing Guardian for too long. Spend some time on another class for a while and you’ll see why Guardians are being left alone for the most part.

The changes mostly seem to be potential buffs for bunker guardians or front line guardians in WvW. They don’t seem to really revolutionize anything, but not many of the traits for other professions did anyways.

There is a reason Mesmer was added to my sig recently. :P And also, why would they buffer bunker/frontline? It is the very least of our concerns as guardians. Conditions, soft CC, certain mobility issues…. OUR FREAKING ZEAL LINE all need fixes before bunkers need any rework.

Lol, nice new adept traits.

Oh you meant grandmaster.

Wow, in the bad way.

Crapgame.6519:

Bash.7291:

So The official traits have been released:

Zeal: 33% extra burning damage
Radiance: Retaliation now scales from condition damage
Valor: Grant aegis to nearby allies when you block.
Honor: 300 Vit
Virtues: VoR now also gives 15% endurance regeneration.

They need to change blocking mechanics for this (in my opinion) to be any good. Focus is about the best off hand for this but it yet again leaves the shield out in the dark

Wonder if it would be possible to do a Radiance/Zeal build because I have one heck of a condition build/gear set. Wonder how it will scale or to what relationship between the amount of condition. It would make torch worthwhile more so if you can pick up Zeals new beastie.

Everything else, meh. This dates back to December 10th’s just wait post

It won’t be worth it due to one glaring flaw. Our complete lack of survivability by going 30 into those lines. Conditions take time to tick, and one of our new “conditions” requires us to take damage to even activate. Horribly flawed logic on the conditions update for us, and I really don’t see it becoming viable at all.

Side note: If the condition to damage ratio is the same for retal as the power to damage ratio, the trait will be pretty much worthless, as it is easier to get power than condition damage. So in the end, is it worth it to trade off that damage for more burning damage but less overall damage?

I feel that for PvE in a normal party, the valor trait needs to give at least a 10 sec Aegis. Its a good trait but frankly I don’t really see a 5 sec Aegis being that much of a use to a good party.

BUT, if I got 5 Guardians all running this trait…. does that mean we can get a stupid amount of Aegi going around by this trait procing off each other? It doesn’t seem to have an ICD, so this sounds….. interesting.

Bash.7291:

Crapgame.6519:

Bash.7291:

So The official traits have been released:

Zeal: 33% extra burning damage
Radiance: Retaliation now scales from condition damage
Valor: Grant aegis to nearby allies when you block.
Honor: 300 Vit
Virtues: VoR now also gives 15% endurance regeneration.

They need to change blocking mechanics for this (in my opinion) to be any good. Focus is about the best off hand for this but it yet again leaves the shield out in the dark

Wonder if it would be possible to do a Radiance/Zeal build because I have one heck of a condition build/gear set. Wonder how it will scale or to what relationship between the amount of condition. It would make torch worthwhile more so if you can pick up Zeals new beastie.

Everything else, meh. This dates back to December 10th’s just wait post

It won’t be worth it due to one glaring flaw. Our complete lack of survivability by going 30 into those lines. Conditions take time to tick, and one of our new “conditions” requires us to take damage to even activate. Horribly flawed logic on the conditions update for us, and I really don’t see it becoming viable at all.

Side note: If the condition to damage ratio is the same for retal as the power to damage ratio, the trait will be pretty much worthless, as it is easier to get power than condition damage. So in the end, is it worth it to trade off that damage for more burning damage but less overall damage?

The damage scaling for condition damage on retal trait is higher than power. They said that in the stream, though it wasn’t listed in the text. Didn’t say how much higher, just that it should be making your Retal do more damage than if you were running power without the trait.

Thanks Bash, Electro. I didn’t hear the stream so wasn’t sure. I was just hoping I guess.

I would actually love that Warrior might trait on Guardians.

It would give a point to using GS’s autoattack (at least make it less of a DPS waste than it is now) and synergise so well with EM and AH.

The flaw with all this isn’t that any of those are particularly bad, it’s that for many builds, going 30 in any line is simply not too appealing. Even our favourite DPS meta builds don’t hit 30 and I don’t think from what I see here, that’s going to change.

I can definitely see where a few of these would be pretty cool, especially if people don’t mind moving away from meta.

Zeal: I like it, but that’s because I’m weird and have a soft spot for burning builds. It actually makes burning on Guardians good (because I will hit over 1K per tick) and the other traits in Zeal are good. Trash burning PVE build INC (finally). Unfortunately, I don’t see it getting used beyond some solo PVE.

Radiance – WTF? A synergy between condition damage and retal? I guess I can see it conceptually but … the scaling on this better be absolutely amazing.

Valour – The 30 is cool but I’m still struggling to find a place for the other 25 points in my builds.

Honour – The least thoughtful and exciting. I really don’t feel we need more HP. This will fall into the bin with AH as ‘training wheels’ trait.

Virtue – I cried a bit … they ALMOST addressed one of my complaints. Here is a virtue that improves the passive effect … except it’s a 30 and there is STILL no other benefit to passive virtues from the stats in the line. I think this shall go unnoticed.

BTW< has anyone tried to see if any of these ideas were brought about from player suggestions?

Yeah I read that and immediately thought, ok what else you got?

3k extra hit points if you count that with the hit points you’d get for traiting that far into honor it should be aprox 16k, that’s still lower than an untraited Warrior lol, no thanks, try again anet.

That trait is going to be abused by staff Guards trying to run dungeons =/
It may as well be a signet so I can spot it when in use, it’s a very selfish trait much like AH.

So, the new Zeal grandmaster seems redundant with a trait that converts power into condition damage already there in the trait line.

Did the math actually.
Burning (The only damaging condition Guardian have) ticks for 354 with no condition damage.
With the berserkers amulet in the mists and the conversion trait (13% of power into condition damage), you gain a perfect 300 condition damage bonus. This causes burning to tick for 403.
If the new trait is a pure 33% increase to burning, that causes burning to tick for 471 (rounded up).

There is the new trait in radiance that causes retalliation to be effected by condition damage instead of power, and that might be a reason to take the old conversion trait in Zeal…. except that you already have an obscene amount of power from berserkers gear anyway to get a bonus even close to worth it from the conversion trait.

Seems dumb to me, hope that old conversion trait doesn’t stick around, because otherwise it’s just taking up space.

The post above me is correct and highlights a very big problem with the new 33% burn damage trait. Follow my thought process for a second. Let’s compare the new talent (33% burning damage) to kindled zeal (13% of your power to condition damage).

The base damage of burning is 328/sec and scales with condition damage for .25 per point of condition damage. The new trait adds 33% burning damage, resulting in 436 damage/sec (at +0 condition damage). This results in a difference of roughly 108 damage.

In order to add 108 damage to burning, you need to have 432 condition damage. That translates into 3330 power for the Kindled zeal talent. Why on earth would anyone going for condition damage ever choose Kindled zeal over the new talent? Even for power Guardians, who usually invest into Radiance, Kindled zeal is clearly the worse of the two (at +250 condition damage from 25 points into radiance, you would need 5253 power before kindled zeal is equal to the damage added from the +33% damage trait) . Also, how does simply adding more damage to burning all of a sudden make it viable when it didn’t before?

What was Anet’s thought process behind this new ability? It seems to overshadow kindled zeal while providing the exact same end result, to boost burning damage. The only way Kindled Zeal still can pull ahead is when you go for a power build that ignores radiance (the tree that’s all about boosting burning damage) and manages to get 25 might stacks and various consumables (and avoids any and all boosts to condition damage in any shape or form).

In short, when the new trait arrives, there is no reason ever to select Kindled Zeal. It does the exact same thing as Kindled Zeal, but only better. This is nothing short of short sighted and poor design, if not trying to deceit us into believing we are getting a new trait while in reality we are merely getting a copy.

It is long overdue that Kindled Zeal is turned into a good, useful trait so we might finally have a reason to go further than 20 points into Zeal. They hardly read the class forums though, so I suggest everyone to go in the class forums and post about the implications of this “new” grand master trait.

Kindled Zeal is still better for all our poison and bleeds.

…Sorry, I tried to keep a straight face .

Nike.2631:

Kindled Zeal is still better for all our poison and bleeds.

…Sorry, I tried to keep a straight face .

But it works amazingly for that chill talent we have!… or had… do we still have that? I don’t think I bothered to look for it ever… :P

Am I the only one who wants more access to cripple/chill :/