Guardian Hp issue

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Posted by: Mutilate.2796

Mutilate.2796

So my guardian just hit 80 today, I have full exotic (some ascended) berserker armor on her then i found out she only has 12k hp? While my warrior has 23k hp with pretty much the same gear? I mean what?

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Posted by: rajule.8054

rajule.8054

guardians are suppose to have a smaller health pool because we have better innate healing and damage mitigation.

how true that actually is, is debatable but that’s why you’re seeing such a big difference.

I personally wear zerker gear and make up for some of the hp and toughness loss through my accessories, but you’re not going to easily reach the same 23k hp like on your warrior without killing your damage so don’t try.

Edited for clarity

(edited by rajule.8054)

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Posted by: Mutilate.2796

Mutilate.2796

Thanks for the reply. Im gunna stay full zerker no matter what for the 99% of the time. Im just amazed by the hp difference between 2 plate armor classes.. Thats almost 100% differences.

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Posted by: Talyn.3295

Talyn.3295

The warrior doesn’t have the blinds/blocks and defense skills. But fear not. If you know how to play a zerker you will find the loss of those hp won’t hold you back at all. Been running zerker gear fully for well over a year and some change now, and no issues with it.

“We have now left Reason and Sanity Junction. Next stop, Looneyville.”

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Posted by: Mutilate.2796

Mutilate.2796

Thanks for the reply. I play fractal 50 with my thief main so I think I ll be fine with my guardian survival wise. I was just not sure if the hp was correct i guess since its a huge difference.

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

Guardian base hp is 10 900, while Warrior is 18 500, so the difference is more around 60% and not 100%. You need some vitality on your warrior to reach 23k hp.

The difference is that Warrior almost have zero active defense. You have your dodge, an evade with GS and some vigor when trait or with the right skill. So most of your defense come from your big HP pool.

The guardian is at the other extreme and is the king of active defense. Aegis, Blind, Reflect, Condition Removal, Invulnerable, Block, etc The Guardian even with the DPS oriented meta build is packed with a lot of active defense and most of those not only help yourself survive, but also help the team.

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: Mutilate.2796

Mutilate.2796

Thank you for the reply. I get it now.

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Posted by: Ragnarox.9601

Ragnarox.9601

Guardians are in good place now (somewhere in 10900hp line).

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

While OP gets it and understand the difference, I want to point out that warriors may not have a lot of blocks/blinds spread throughout the class and weapon skills, it does have access to a highly effective passive healing signet, good condition removal sources, large bouts of mobility to allow passive healing to tick, good refresh on evade dashes on greatsword, and a shield which blocks.

They have effective means of active defense, as well as “better?” (depends on who you talk to) healing, for self at least, and good condition removal.

Guard, well we like being told that we are special and can do things with less hp?

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Posted by: Mutilate.2796

Mutilate.2796

I kinda agree with you. The “better” active defense doesnt seem to make up for the huge hp difference in solo situation.

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Posted by: Tzozef.9841

Tzozef.9841

In addition to that, if you reach 2,300-2,500 attack pwr, 40% crit chance and 190% crit dmg, that is enough, and you can build for other stats for the rest of your gear (tough, vit, healing pwr).

Really anything higher is unnecessary.

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I kinda agree with you. The “better” active defense doesnt seem to make up for the huge hp difference in solo situation.

I disagree. It leaves less wiggle room sure, but I feel it’s stronger to have all the active defenses and ohh so much sweeter when you come out of the solo unscathed.

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Jerus, we just argued that guardian does not have “that” much better active defense and passive healing than warrior.

That said I prefer guardian after playing all the classes…I guess I’m a masochist

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Posted by: sorrychief.2563

sorrychief.2563

as a wise charr guardian once told me in pve, “I don’t need HP, I have aegis.”

champion magus
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Jerus, we just argued that guardian does not have “that” much better active defense and passive healing than warrior.

That said I prefer guardian after playing all the classes…I guess I’m a masochist

Ahh I skimmed, but I will say I don’t agree, thought it depends on the situation, projectiles guardians are WAY above warrior in meta builds. Normal attacks, and we’re just a bit above true. Trash and we’re again quite a bit above.

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Posted by: CMF.5461

CMF.5461

Also depends on gametype, pve, pvp, and wvw

PvE guards are really strong.

WvW guards are good to have.

PvP guards are in a state of flux but still effective.

Solo, guards start to lose effectivness, as they shine in group scenarios.

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

Guardians are in good place now (somewhere in 10900hp line).

You really… Just… Went there.

/sigh

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Posted by: Tysefol.2017

Tysefol.2017

Guardian base hp is 10 900, while Warrior is 18 500, so the difference is more around 60% and not 100%. You need some vitality on your warrior to reach 23k hp.

The difference is that Warrior almost have zero active defense. You have your dodge, an evade with GS and some vigor when trait or with the right skill. So most of your defense come from your big HP pool.

The guardian is at the other extreme and is the king of active defense. Aegis, Blind, Reflect, Condition Removal, Invulnerable, Block, etc The Guardian even with the DPS oriented meta build is packed with a lot of active defense and most of those not only help yourself survive, but also help the team.

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

> 8 second condition invulnerability while you can still attack
> 4 second invulnerability while you can still attack
> 3s block on shield (can still move)

Yup. Guardian has nothing to envy.

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Posted by: Ezrael.6859

Ezrael.6859

Guardian base hp is 10 900, while Warrior is 18 500, so the difference is more around 60% and not 100%. You need some vitality on your warrior to reach 23k hp.

The difference is that Warrior almost have zero active defense. You have your dodge, an evade with GS and some vigor when trait or with the right skill. So most of your defense come from your big HP pool.

The guardian is at the other extreme and is the king of active defense. Aegis, Blind, Reflect, Condition Removal, Invulnerable, Block, etc The Guardian even with the DPS oriented meta build is packed with a lot of active defense and most of those not only help yourself survive, but also help the team.

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

It’s a 70% hp difference.

And Shield Block, Berserker Stance, Endure Pain, Defy Pain (trait), Whirlwind (evade), Defiant Stance, Cleansing Ire and Shield Master (trait) say ‘hi’ for active defense comparisons.

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Posted by: starlinvf.1358

starlinvf.1358

Guardian base hp is 10 900, while Warrior is 18 500, so the difference is more around 60% and not 100%. You need some vitality on your warrior to reach 23k hp.

The difference is that Warrior almost have zero active defense. You have your dodge, an evade with GS and some vigor when trait or with the right skill. So most of your defense come from your big HP pool.

The guardian is at the other extreme and is the king of active defense. Aegis, Blind, Reflect, Condition Removal, Invulnerable, Block, etc The Guardian even with the DPS oriented meta build is packed with a lot of active defense and most of those not only help yourself survive, but also help the team.

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

> 8 second condition invulnerability while you can still attack
> 4 second invulnerability while you can still attack
> 3s block on shield (can still move)

Yup. Guardian has nothing to envy.

Warriors are designed to be scrappers, taking personal endurance to a major extreme. Guards are built for group play, sharing its defenses with the group for a higher net effect.

If anything, it just highlights whats wrong with dungeon designs.

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Posted by: Thaddeus.4891

Thaddeus.4891

And Shield Block, Berserker Stance, Endure Pain, Defy Pain (trait), Whirlwind (evade), Defiant Stance, Cleansing Ire and Shield Master (trait) say ‘hi’ for active defense comparisons.

And? Are you saying that warrior have more active defense than guardian?

Thaddeauz [xQCx]- QC GUILD

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Posted by: sorrychief.2563

sorrychief.2563

Endure pain is not 4 second invulnerability.

champion magus
previously rank 2 on old leaderboards
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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Defy pain isn’t active lol.

Also, opportunity cost. Taking an off-hand shield or taking utilities that only benefit yourself on a long cooldown and needs to be timed properly or else it’s wasted is a problem as opposed to say group aegis which comes on all builds.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

(edited by ArchonWing.9480)

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Posted by: RevanCorana.8942

RevanCorana.8942

Theres a reason why warriors are always picked in pvp over guard and the rare guards in pvp always use bunker build
Aegis doesn’t do anything in teamfights
Endure Pain / Defiant Stance / Defy Pain are simply superior and due to the higher base hp warr can use zerker amulet and retain survivability and sustain.
And they already deal more dmg on base stats.

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Posted by: Kagamiku.9731

Kagamiku.9731

Pre-patch, warriors were run for shoutbow for their strong support and survivability. Zerker Guardians are vastly better than a zerker warrior in terms of sustain. They have true invulnerabilities, and they can use meditations to heal themselves and they have unavoidable instant cast damage. They also have protection, aegis, and blinds. Warriors have the higher HP pool but they have no way to sustain that HP from any big damage attacks. People don’t look at the big picture when they compare classes, go figure.

This has not changed post-patch. Except shoutbow sucks now.

(edited by Kagamiku.9731)

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Posted by: sorrychief.2563

sorrychief.2563

Aegis doesn’t do anything in teamfights

champion magus
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Posted by: RevanCorana.8942

RevanCorana.8942

No a Guard with zerker amulet is basically a freekill that doesn’t even deal more damage than a marauder warriors.
The fact that Guards dmg cant compare to Warriors is due 2 things first they need either barbarian or marauder amulet for the vitality being a melee with 11k is just not possible so its a dmg loss.
Then Warriors already have much higher dmg multiplier on autoattacks and skill and can use berserker amulet because of their high vitality.
Also they can ignore team spike for short duration while still attacking for 16 seconds! nothing like renewed focus that removes point capture contribution!

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Posted by: ArchonWing.9480

ArchonWing.9480

Thaddeus and the OP was talking about fractals and dungeons. That’s why I bring up Aegis. It’s why one of the posts ended with

Personally, I have a far easier time to survive with my guardian in dungeon, than my Warrior.

to which people started bringing up stances and shields and their pvp struggles which doesn’t hold much weight to this particular conversation, because while you could take a lot of that, you’d end up with a deadweight character that doesn’t support.

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.

(edited by ArchonWing.9480)

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Posted by: Kagamiku.9731

Kagamiku.9731

No a Guard with zerker amulet is basically a freekill that doesn’t even deal more damage than a marauder warriors.
The fact that Guards dmg cant compare to Warriors is due 2 things first they need either barbarian or marauder amulet for the vitality being a melee with 11k is just not possible so its a dmg loss.
Then Warriors already have much higher dmg multiplier on autoattacks and skill and can use berserker amulet because of their high vitality.
Also they can ignore team spike for short duration while still attacking for 16 seconds! nothing like renewed focus that removes point capture contribution!

A freekill? Guardian is pretty much the only counter to mesmers in their current state, while mesmers hard counter any warrior not currently in rampage. Yes, the mesmer notorious for their high unavoidable burst damage is at a large disadvantage against a zerker guardian, while they will completely faceroll a warrior. Why you ask? Because their sustainability is simply better. They can survive multiple bursts with their various utility and weapon skills, while also applying large amount of cleave and burning damage that is far harder to avoid than warrior skills. Their ability to instant gap close via ports is also extremely useful.

Guardians are also one of the current classes able to abuse burn damage to ridiculous levels. And regardless what you say, their burst damage potential is insane. Is it larger than warriors? Probably not, but it’s far easier to land high damage skill on a guardian than it is for a warrior to land a high damage skill.

As for your 16seconds of ignoring spike damage, that’s some fairy tail you came up with. No one runs defiant stance for a good reason (as healing signet is better, always) and defy pain is an unreliable trait that procs at 25% health. By then conditions have stacked ontop of you and you might be even be dead already if they hit you with a burst around 30% HP. And then there is Balanced Stance. For a whole two more seconds of physical damage immunity (endure and defy pain +1 second) we lose cleansing ire. No one is going to realistically take that even if we traited for all three stances. So with balanced stance/defy pain/endure pain/defiant stance we would have 13 3/4 seconds of physical immunity and 3 3/4 seconds of complete immunity. Still not 16, and it’s a large nerf to our sustain in reality as both cleansing ire and healing signet are better for that. What warriors do have is four seconds of physical immunity and 8 seconds where conditions can’t be applied to them, plus another 4 seconds of physical immunity that has a strong chance of proccing at a bad time leading us to more likely run away than continue the fight. Assuming conditions don’t kill them before we can run.

If you look at things in a vacuum and fail to look outside the box and see why a zerker guardian has more sustainability than a warrior, I don’t know what to say.

(edited by Kagamiku.9731)

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Posted by: Darknicrofia.2604

Darknicrofia.2604

Pre-patch, warriors were run for shoutbow for their strong support and survivability. Zerker Guardians are vastly better than a zerker warrior in terms of sustain. They have true invulnerabilities, and they can use meditations to heal themselves and they have unavoidable instant cast damage. They also have protection, aegis, and blinds. Warriors have the higher HP pool but they have no way to sustain that HP from any big damage attacks. People don’t look at the big picture when they compare classes, go figure.

This has not changed post-patch. Except shoutbow sucks now.

the only thing that changed is that rampage is a better skill than any other skill in the game.

Darknicrofia Sage – Bad Gerdian, Merciless Legend, Platinum NA Solo Que

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Posted by: Obtena.7952

Obtena.7952

It’s not relevant to compare Warrior HP to Guardian HP and conclude there is something wrong with the Guardian class. These are old, tired discussions. Anet want the class to fill a team-support role. I believe that is why our HP is on the low side; we are urged to take advantage of our team as much as our team is to be taking advantage of us. That’s the role Guardians have. The choices for ‘things’ like HP, etc… reflect that.

(edited by Obtena.7952)

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Posted by: Happyangrycatfish.1725

Happyangrycatfish.1725

I run all zerker except for runes. I use the Dolyak runes. Give me some more passive regen extra HP makes me a bit more tanky. But yeah we have a terrible health pool but with medi guard we get a ton of regens.

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Posted by: Kagamiku.9731

Kagamiku.9731

Pre-patch, warriors were run for shoutbow for their strong support and survivability. Zerker Guardians are vastly better than a zerker warrior in terms of sustain. They have true invulnerabilities, and they can use meditations to heal themselves and they have unavoidable instant cast damage. They also have protection, aegis, and blinds. Warriors have the higher HP pool but they have no way to sustain that HP from any big damage attacks. People don’t look at the big picture when they compare classes, go figure.

This has not changed post-patch. Except shoutbow sucks now.

the only thing that changed is that rampage is a better skill than any other skill in the game.

It’s definitely strong but it’s a one trick pony used for one game mode. The strongest skill in the game is Feel my Wrath (funnily enough, it’s a guardian skill) Group wide quickness (5seconds) and fury (10seconds) on a 30second cd (24 seconds when traited). No other quickness skill even comes remotely close. Hell, no other skill even comes close to the damage output it can provide. Compare that to time warp which is 10 seconds of group quickness (and slow) on a 180 second cooldown.

(edited by Kagamiku.9731)

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Posted by: Black Box.9312

Black Box.9312

Sorry, but I left the building when they decided that warriors, who were given a high HP pool due to their weakness to conditions and sustained DPS, should receive both the (arguably) best personal condition cleansing trait and the highest HP/s healing skill in the game.