Guild Wars 2

Can Guardian’s mace have a Knockdown/More Healing, perhaps even self protection?

Mace is already the best source of healing a guardian has, what it needs is a blast finisher on Protector’s Strike whether it’s struck or not and access to a realiable source of cripple on symbols.

Mace already have 2/3 of those things so ?

Althalos.6734:

Mace is already the best source of healing a guardian has, what it needs is a blast finisher on Protector’s Strike whether it’s struck or not and access to a realiable source of cripple on symbols.

Protector’s Strike actually has a whirl finisher on it right now.

Only if you don’t get hit, oddly enough. And it launches one single projectile because its so short. And its not listed in the tooltip.

Getting a strange whirl finisher replaced with a Blast would be great, though I’m not sure it makes much sense. Nothing about the attack looks like a blast. And you can always grab Focus if you want one, so having 2 with Mace / Focus might be a bit much.

Personally, what I’d do to Protector’s Strike is to make the “didn’t get hit” function triggerable by pressing 3 again (similar to Zealot’s Flame / Fire, Shield #5’s trigger heal, ect) so that you could choose either Protection or a block. Maybe increase Protection duration slightly. Keep the Whirl finisher and apply it to both the block and the Protect.

Electro.4173:

Protector’s Strike actually has a whirl finisher on it right now.

Only if you don’t get hit, oddly enough. And it launches one single projectile because its so short. And its not listed in the tooltip.

Getting a strange whirl finisher replaced with a Blast would be great, though I’m not sure it makes much sense. Nothing about the attack looks like a blast. And you can always grab Focus if you want one, so having 2 with Mace / Focus might be a bit much.

Personally, what I’d do to Protector’s Strike is to make the “didn’t get hit” function triggerable by pressing 3 again (similar to Zealot’s Flame / Fire, Shield #5’s trigger heal, ect) so that you could choose either Protection or a block. Maybe increase Protection duration slightly. Keep the Whirl finisher and apply it to both the block and the Protect.

We share the idea about the trigger for protection part. Right now I feel kinda dumb when I wind up PS expecting to get hit just to end up running around holding my hand in the air and not getting hit at all. I mean I barely use PS for protection at all, the animation is a long wait to be worth it.

The reason why I suggested PS to have a blast finisher is for retaliation, because the single cleansing bolt it creates from whirl finisher is just laughable.

Althalos.6734:

We share the idea about the trigger for protection part. Right now I feel kinda dumb when I wind up PS expecting to get hit just to end up running around holding my hand in the air and not getting hit at all. I mean I barely use PS for protection at all, the animation is a long wait to be worth it.

The reason why I suggested PS to have a blast finisher is for retaliation, because the single cleansing bolt it creates from whirl finisher is just laughable.

Whirl finishers in general are laughable. Every time I do Teq, people are stuck with 30s+ of Vulnerability condition, which I try to cure with GS#4 Symbol, then whirl out Cleansing Bolts with GS#2. It almost always fails to hit anything, it just spews out everywhere except to where the players are. It’s amazing.

If you ask me, the whirl finisher on the Mace is one of the most useless guardian skills, next to Glacial Heart.

Althalos.6734:

Mace is already the best source of healing a guardian has, what it needs is a blast finisher on Protector’s Strike whether it’s struck or not and access to a realiable source of cripple on symbols.

Cripple on symbols would be great. That solve a LOT of problem in wvw for non-support/zerg guardians.

Mace is a great weapon. Very stationary, but really great. Shield and Scepter need a lot of love.

Daecollo.9578:

Can Guardian’s mace have a Knockdown/More Healing, perhaps even self protection?

It already has healing power if you trait it.

Problem with mace imo is the slow wind up time for the auto attack 3rd swing. In pvp you usually will not land it, due to moving targets, evade etc. They need to decrease the wind up time greatly.

The mace is a highly immobile weapon which is ironic, since gw2 is a highly mobile game. Bad design choice if you ask me.

The problem with the mace, I believe, comes with the casting speed of 2 and the way 3 works.

2 needs to be faster, just hit the mace to the ground and give me the symbol already… And if they could change 3 that it will not be a channeling skill anymore, would be awesome.

Since the mace is a bit situational weapon, you’ll be using it for third hit of 1 and the heal from 2; 3 is making us lose the time we could use for another hit.

Suggestion for 3: ‘’Places a hovering shield (same shield graphic but not channeled) around the guardian that reduces the duration of incoming conditions of it by X% for the next Y seconds’’

Speeding up the attacks of the mace would be awesome! (atm the third strike of 1 is only 1/4 second faster than hammer)

I’d also like to see something done with Protectors Strike, being able to detonate it early for the protection sounds like something that could work.

I would also like to suggest making it work like it is described, as in it blocks for allies too, in my experience it doesn’t do that.

If it’s going to be a combo finisher it should at least be a finisher regardless of whether you blocked an attack or not, you spin around either way.

With that in mind, having it as a blast finisher would be really nice, it wouldn’t make a huge amount of sense but unless whirl finishers get improved my vote is for blast.

Just make symbols air-unblockable so you can’t chicken-block mace rushdown.

Mace on Guardian is a dying dog that needs to be put down.

I love mace. Traited with Mace of Justice gives 5% more damage over all and 250 healing power. Combine that with high enough healing power and writ of the merciful, and mace #2 can turn the tide of combat very effectively. Personally I like mace #3, either way a block / damage or protection works for me and has great synergy with AH. I wish the auto attack did something else in the 3rd hit tho. That’s my only criticism. Like apply a cripple or another symbol, but I doubt they’ll add that. I have way more issues with staff than mace.

I’d love the 3 to have a short stun. It would just make sense really.

The #1 3rd skill is way too slow. Same with #2. But otherwise its secretly one of our best weapons.

I use mace all the time, it’s actually really, really good. I’d really prefer to use a sword but sword just doesn’t work with my build at all…

As far as main hand weapons go, mace easily has the most trait synergy. A stun would be nice though.

…if sword had a symbol I’d switch in a heartbeat.

I think the auto-attack is fine (compare it to similar attacks on other professions), although the #2 symbol could maybe be faster. By the time you put that thing down, people could have already taken more damage than the regen will heal. Not to mention an ally can easily just move away before you can pop it down on them, meaning they’ll get no regeneration whatsoever.

I guess the symbol does have a fairly low cooldown, but I don’t think bumping it down to 3/4 cast time or even just 1 second would be too much.

I don’t know that mace works very well with torch though… maybe if you were doing some healing-condi build that would end up functioning alright.

I agree it could use some improvements especially in speed of attack. In the only part of the game that matters (imo) the mace speed is way to slow for WvW.

It needs less love, every single pug guardian uses mace and shield and slows my group down more than a bearbow ranger…

Mace has always been unfun to use for me, regardless of how effective it can be in certain situations, mostly talking WvW healing though, kinda just too slow and limited in range, even though I run with big healing I end up going with Hammer instead (+staff) 9 times out of 10 for the CC and area retaliation as it seems to result in way more kills for the group than maces lives saved.

What would I do with it that I think wouldn’t make it OP? Faster autoattack chain that does about the same overall amount of healing but with a slightly larger radius and spread out onto every attack of the chain… #2 is ok just 50% faster cast time maybe, personally i’d rather see a completely different ability without a symbol though #3 i’d like to see it do a very short aoe stun + block when hit and perhaps a 900 radius aoe daze if it finishes cast time with a small group heal in that same area.

I dunno, like many it seems, just don’t find it a fun weapon to use as is.

Mace is just fine if you build it right. 10/30/10/20 with Writ of Persistence does about the same amount of damage as a comparable build on sword and has better AOE capabilities.

The problem is that everyone runs 0/0/30/30/10 cleric mace, but that’s a problem with the player, not the weapon.

It would be nice if they’d let the third chain hit not be a single target attack.

Most things you fight are single target.

You goofy goobers are welcome to feel however you want. At the end of the day, the mace won’t get changed because it doesn’t need to be changed. Rather than spending your time posting on the gw2 forums about how much you hate this weapon, why not use that same amount of time to try to get good with it?

Mace is probably one of the best weapons guardians have. The slower cast times keep things “balanced”. That B word is a new concept for some of you, I can tell.

Please stop mindlessly asking for buffs. Play your profession for a while before exposing your inexperienced self to the rest of the community.

FoopOplo.7914:

You goofy goobers are welcome to feel however you want. At the end of the day, the mace won’t get changed because it doesn’t need to be changed. Rather than spending your time posting on the gw2 forums about how much you hate this weapon, why not use that same amount of time to try to get good with it?

Mace is probably one of the best weapons guardians have. The slower cast times keep things “balanced”. That B word is a new concept for some of you, I can tell.

Please stop mindlessly asking for buffs. Play your profession for a while before exposing your inexperienced self to the rest of the community.

That was pretty harsh given the relatively light-hearted discussion going on here. Most of the opinions shared here are pretty much on-point and to call them out in the way you did takes away any credibility you could have had.

FoopOplo: “Look at these fools with their <subjective opinions here>! Don’t they realise that <subjective opinion here>!?”

Shouldn’t have come across as harsh as it did apparently seem. I get excited about my profession and when I see things that would so obviously (in my opinion) make it overpowered, I can’t help but overdo it I suppose. My point does still stand though that mace is one of the most used guardian weapons, and that is not subjective, it’s a fact.

FoopOplo.7914:

Shouldn’t have come across as harsh as it did apparently seem. I get excited about my profession and when I see things that would so obviously (in my opinion) make it overpowered, I can’t help but overdo it I suppose. My point does still stand though that mace is one of the most used guardian weapons, and that is not subjective, it’s a fact.

It may be a fact, but it’s a wrong fact. It’s probably the least used guardian weapon.

FoopOplo.7914:

You goofy goobers are welcome to feel however you want. At the end of the day, the mace won’t get changed because it doesn’t need to be changed. Rather than spending your time posting on the gw2 forums about how much you hate this weapon, why not use that same amount of time to try to get good with it?

Mace is probably one of the best weapons guardians have. The slower cast times keep things “balanced”. That B word is a new concept for some of you, I can tell.

Please stop mindlessly asking for buffs. Play your profession for a while before exposing your inexperienced self to the rest of the community.

Yes be that slower speed it is balanced on par with the rapid fire heart seekers or the like…..not.

WvW (again the only part that matters. IMO) the mace is sub par. If you are out fighting shodily coded mobs with crappy ai then sure it is fine.

It is hard to get hits on em. Just before making my post however, I killed several people in 1v1 fights with mace shield… and that’s running my support build. Just takes some practice to keep them in your face. Rarely do I PvE against trash so I agree WvW and sPvP and where it matters most. PvE players can adapt.

mace is finne players only need to know when to use it, altough most of the time with the current builds that are on WvW it wont perform much well.
Anet said they were trying to add more traits systems and that might balance things a litle more in terms of effort to kill and survive with atm is the main problem with this game.

After played with some cheap mechanics with my other toons in this game i was blaffed how really works.

P.S only very bad players die to mace….

I agree it is slow and definitely hard to kill with it, as it’s intended to be. The mace in itself doesn’t kill, it helps do some damage while keeping you alive long enough to kill. Auto-attacking with the mace won’t kill anyone ever.

In WvW, mace is still fine in small fights. In larger fights, I dodge in, lay down the symbol of faith, and either dodge roll back out or use the #3 to get back out safely and return to supporting/aoeing with staff.

And your stating of only bad players dying to a guardian using a mace is simply untrue. I’ve personally fought Caed (thief and team captain of team SYNC at the PAX GW2 PvP invitational) and had him down to 25% health while roaming in WvW before he killed me, and again that was just on my supportive bunker build. Mace is plenty fine.

Yeah man, I’m also passionate about Guardian and also run a supporty/bunker build. I agree that the mace is actually one of our most balanced weapons and has a huge amount of variability due to its many trait synergies.
It certainly is undeniable though that there are a couple of quality of life improvements that could really help the mace skills. Such as the third hit in the chain hitting three foes (not trigger the heal three times though), Protector’s Strike having a similar on-demand action on par with other profession’s counter-attack skills such as Warrior and Mesmer (possibly also Ranger). I’m fine with the symbol, the only other thing that irks me is that we hardly get any combo finishers outside of greatsword and hammer (I haven’t forgotten focus but it’s on a massive cooldown) and the one on mace is not only the worst type but is also the shortest possible of the worst type, it hardly ever procs anyway and if it does, it means you were standing there for three seconds not doing anything.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Mace is just fine if you build it right. 10/30/10/20 with Writ of Persistence does about the same amount of damage as a comparable build on sword and has better AOE capabilities.

The problem is that everyone runs 0/0/30/30/10 cleric mace, but that’s a problem with the player, not the weapon.

Really!! Guess you learn something everyday
still going to be disappointed when i get a mace shield guardian because 99% of the time (no citation just extrapolating based off my experiences) they’re using a support build

either honorable shield or mace of justice traits have to go down to adept level so we will be able to take both on single spec, as taking grandmaster slot for either of them make absolutely no sense.

also the range should be increased to 150 just like the sword.

Mace even w/o WoP is competitive with Sword if Protectors Strike is used for DPS and proc’d quickly. It’s not as mobile but in the right group its a great option for glassy builds due to all its innate healing and the block. Torch is a good off hand if there’s no other burners in the party otherwise Focus and Shield are both good. I use Focus paired with Scepter so that leaves Shield with Mace in most cases unless Torch is needed.

Silver.8023:

Yeah man, I’m also passionate about Guardian and also run a supporty/bunker build. I agree that the mace is actually one of our most balanced weapons and has a huge amount of variability due to its many trait synergies.
It certainly is undeniable though that there are a couple of quality of life improvements that could really help the mace skills. Such as the third hit in the chain hitting three foes (not trigger the heal three times though), Protector’s Strike having a similar on-demand action on par with other profession’s counter-attack skills such as Warrior and Mesmer (possibly also Ranger). I’m fine with the symbol, the only other thing that irks me is that we hardly get any combo finishers outside of greatsword and hammer (I haven’t forgotten focus but it’s on a massive cooldown) and the one on mace is not only the worst type but is also the shortest possible of the worst type, it hardly ever procs anyway and if it does, it means you were standing there for three seconds not doing anything.

I would agree with you on the on-demand for #3, but if we don’t get hit, we grant Protection to allies. I don’t think the other professions do anything like that (although I could be wrong). So maybe it’s a balance issue. If so, I am fine with it the way it is.

Mace suffers from the same issue as hammer. The third auto attack chain almost never hits a target (player) because it takes too long to cast. Sure they both hit pretty hard when then land, but that is rare and the benefits aren’t even that great when they do hit (hammer actually is pretty good, but again you will rarely land it on somebody. Guardians just don’t have much cc capability outside of a few immobilizes and wards.

A benefit to the guardian profession as a whole would be to modify the Master trait Symbolic Exposure so that instead of applying meager stacks of vulnerability, it applies 1s cripples. This would give guardians that invest in this line (which is rarely invested in) some much needed soft cc and open up some more build diversity.

Familiarity with the damage coefficients goes a long way to dispelling misinformation about the ‘low’ damage a given weapon and it’s skills give.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guardian-Skill-Coefficients-List-Partial/first#post2309051

Why is this not stickied and why have other professions not done these yet.

SPvP wise mace is one of the best weapons you can roll if you’re going for a bunker symbol build or a stationary sustain build. Pair it with shield or focus and you can pretty much take on 2-3 people for a while. The whirl finisher is pretty bad i’ll admit but other then that single finisher it’s a good weapon. You have a semi-spamable block which can alway be good for Defender’s Flame or Might of th Protector(Gain might on block) and high uptime on Regen and heals with mace autos. Outside SPvP in PVE it’s still good, in WvW it’s very meh since it’s really open field. The only thing I would change if anything is to have mace’s 3rd hit proc even if it misses. Though It seems to be the downside/punishment for missing the attack and you have to do the chain again to try and hit the third strike again.

Mace just needs the third autoattack faster. So does hammer.
Long melee casts aren’t very good on autoattack skills, maybe on cooldowns but not on something you use all the time.