Guild Wars 2

*Might of the Protector: Gain 2 stacks of might for 15 seconds when you block an attack. This ability has a 1 second internal cooldown

1 sec internal cooldown is totally lame, it doesnt reward experienced players that block chained attacks or timed spikes w/ shelter. Seriously 4 stacks of might at best w/ shelter, come on. Shield of wrath probably be 2-4 stacks at best. any other block 2 stacks of might, so if I chain shelter, SoR and one more block at best I get is 10 stacks which I can’t do for another 45 sec or so. This is just a bad change. It makes guardian gameplay much more lame and not fun.

added bonus thought:
“Litany of wrath” should be an insta-cast like all meditations, so obvious even long time ago . why change it to 1/4 sec , just go all the way and make it uniform.

thanks

You think getting like 10 stacks of might when you block a flamethrower autoattack is fine? Retaliation is already BS enough as it stands.

I don’t play Guard, but that sounds like a really strong trait to me.

Does it proc on aegis too? If so, that sounds REALLY good.

If you only get 2-4 stacks with a single block… use more blocks?

Without an internal cooldown, you’d get 20 stacks of might off of a single incoming flamethrower AA or rapid fire, or any other “death by a 1000 paper-cuts” type multi-hit attack. That would be insanely strong.

Though, that’s assuming PvP balance. With the attack rate of AI in PvE that does sound a little more underwhelming, but your main point of it not being useful to punish combo spikes is also more of a PvP thing.

Funny an engy complaining about a guard when engy should well you know….

Did you actually read or understand what I said? If a perfect scenario I would get 10 stacks but that would be highly unlikely from blocks.

I would have to use 3 extremely important skills to get that. So think of your three best oh kitten skills and reply.

1) shelter , my heal skill 30 sec recharge ( oh, btw an engy can interrupt this )
2) shield of wrath, block 3 attacks, 45 sec cool down
3) Virtue of courage : around 80 sec cool down

You think that is OP? BTW retaliation is mostly useless but with upcoming changes depending on spec might be more effective

thanks

Arioso.8519:

I don’t play Guard, but that sounds like a really strong trait to me.

Does it proc on aegis too? If so, that sounds REALLY good.

If you only get 2-4 stacks with a single block… use more blocks?

Without an internal cooldown, you’d get 20 stacks of might off of a single incoming flamethrower AA or rapid fire, or any other “death by a 1000 paper-cuts” type multi-hit attack. That would be insanely strong.

Though, that’s assuming PvP balance. With the attack rate of AI in PvE that does sound a little more underwhelming, but your main point of it not being useful to punish combo spikes is also more of a PvP thing.

The only skill (currently) that a serious might stack could occur would be shelter, because it blocks all attacks – after changes four stacks max. All other guard skills only block 1 attack or SoW blocks 3 but effectively only give a couple might stacks or maybe more if very very lucky ( with changes ).
Shelter is a heal skill and the animation is pretty obvious and can be avoided so it’s used at a higher game play when more experienced players feel or see spikes coming. To me this really dumbs down the gameplay.

Yes, I think 10 stack sof might when you block a multi hit flury attack like flamethrower is ok.

Retaliation is not BS and typically does less incoming damage than you do outgoing damage, save for group fight scenarios. The main offender of retaliation is it should have a much shorter uptime and in compensation it should do increased damage done to work like a skillful counter play and not a fire and forget boon attached to EVERYTHING guardians do.

Most guards will tell you that they don’t see retaliation as “a guard thing”. Mostly a byproduct of what I feel is a forced and failed class mechanic with bandaid solutions to make it “cool to have”.

In addition, retaliation is “not” guardian specific and other classes can provide retal as well.

Back to Might of the Protector. Typically a Guardian can chain single block attacks up to about 5-6 times every 45ish seconds on average (focus, “retreat!”, VoC). Under the old rule, that would provide about 5 stacks of might for 15 seconds each (enough for saving your offensive cooldowns while you play defensive and then return 1 or 2 “buffed” attacks). I see this as fine because guardian is supposed to be a defensive oriented player, so you reward/compensate defensive play with some return damage.

Shelter tied with Might of the Protector was a prime example of good counter play. It is the “worst” heal, yet it is the “best” utility that guards have. Smart use of shelter during a coordinated burst attack by attacking players will provide the guard 10+ stacks of might (20+ if being attacked by multiple targets). Typically it still only provides 1-2 stacks of might on an uncoordinated attack.

This was fine under the old trait, because it rewarded the guardian for smart counter play, with a 30 second cooldown, or it rewarded the attackers if they were able to force shelter without blowing cooldowns into a block and ended up punishing the guard.

Using shelter for a “heal” will get you killed, but using shelter for damage mitigation will reward you.

Overall I think the Might of the Protector was “in a good place” before the changes, and now it is laughably forgettable.

The key here for those that “don’t get it” is don’t mindlessly attack into a block or mindlessly AE into a cluster of enemies!. Watch your opponents, look for retal/blocks and adjust fire. It is supposed to be active combat with counter play, not spam your buttons harder gameplay.

Unfortunately we keep getting more and more changes diluting and disrupting thoughtful gameplay)

CMF, nicely put. The “thoughtful gameplay” is what I hate about the change. And I can’t agree with you more about , “Shelter tied with Might of the Protector was a prime example of good counter play”.
thanks

PS we’ll see about retal w/ the changes

I I.7359:

The only skill (currently) that a serious might stack could occur would be shelter, because it blocks all attacks – after changes four stacks max. All other guard skills only block 1 attack or SoW blocks 3 but effectively only give a couple might stacks or maybe more if very very lucky ( with changes ).
Shelter is a heal skill and the animation is pretty obvious and can be avoided so it’s used at a higher game play when more experienced players feel or see spikes coming. To me this really dumbs down the gameplay.

But it doesn’t sound like it’s supposed to be a skill that gives you a “Serious might stack” it just sounds like it’s an added benefit to blocking and a little bit of extra steady incoming might. Rather than have 10 stacks at once, you get an extra 2-4 stacks going steadily.

I decided to look the trait up, and… It’s a minor?

Seriously?

You want a minor trait to give you “serious might stacks” from using your heal skill, (and shelter is already a pretty nice skill, interuptable or no) so you’d get a heal, a block AND a huge stack of might all at once? 2-4 is quite nice from a minor.

Sure, a stronger benefit might be cool if it were something you actively pick, but it’s not.

If you want something that can give you 10-20 stacks of might, it’d probably have to be a grandmaster.

Arioso,

Sorry man, you just don’t get it.

thanks

i agree with the op. the nerf takes a bit of skillplay away. from both the guard (blocking at the right time) and the enemy (stowing weapons when the hit shelter instead of mindless spamming). the trait was also not super powerful. i mean it basically only had inpact on shelter

i dont understand why the nerf stuff like that, but i guess they wont change anything anyway. would be suprised if they even read this

(had a more in depth post but forum ate it, so here is the shortened version)

Here is a list of arbitrary traits that could meet the “really it’s a minor?!” criteria you applied. In a vacuum they seem like they are fairly strong, but in effect I am sure the players of these classes can tell you that with cooldowns and actual returns, each of these traits are byproduct and forgettable to some degree.

If anything, Might of the Protector differed from these below traits because you could use it to greater or lesser degree of effectiveness, which made the trait not great by default, but useful by a skilled player.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Phantasmal_Healing
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Strength
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Automated_Medical_Response
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Steel-Packed_Powder
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Feline_Grace
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Assassin
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Siphoned_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Companion%27s_Defense
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Adrenal_Health

Beyond that, you have to remove the constraints in your head that these are “minor traits” now and move into a new paradigm of perception.

With the new “6/6/6” build constraints, we can no longer specify the distribution of points and simply just select trait lines as a whole. This new renders “minor traits” as simply “trait line defining attributes”. These minor traits are not greater or weaker than any other trait, but simply your selected class mechanics you wish to play with.

Your flavor is now gained with the select able traits per each tier, and the minor traits help enhance and emphasize your play style.

Oh good, meaningful “gamebalance” discussion tucked away back into the guardian forum where better understanding to the playerbase as a whole will never happen and instead we get to pat ourselves on the backs and shake hands and agree with our own class based bias……..

Anti.9156:

i agree on the op. the nerf takes a bit of skillplay away. from both the guard (blocking at the right time) and the enemy (stowing weapons when the hit shelter instead of mindless spamming). the trait was also not super powerful. i mean it basically only had inpact on shelter

i dont understand why the nerf stuff like that, but i guess they wont change anything anyway. would be suprised if they even read this

It’s so odd. The amount of might we get now is not OP, it just makes the gameplay exciting for the maybe15 secs we might actually get a might stack with a well timed block. This really just dilutes the Guardian gameplay from skill to something else, same with the block/burn. It’s easy to look at a lot of other classes that can stack huge burns and huge might or other buffs and not try to stand up for the guardian.
thanks

CMF.5461:

Oh good, meaningful “gamebalance” discussion tucked away back into the guardian forum where better understanding to the playerbase as a whole will never happen and instead we get to pat ourselves on the backs and shake hands and agree with our own class based bias……..

agree…

For the rest that just checked out the post, it was moved from “game discussion” . plenty of moderators but no input from anet

It’s like wow, once again.

thanks for your comments

I used to use Shelter on many small attack bursts, even if I had full health (preferably so) because i’ll get Shelter back later when i’m low and in need of a heal as well as another potential burn burst or might.

Now, there’ll be no reason to use Shelter on full health for just to 2 – 4 Might stacks or 1 – 2 burns. The playability/strategy will be removed.

Now.. i’m OK with a 1s icd as long as this is limited to per target rather than something global. That way i can still get 10 – 15 stacks of might in a zerg scenario. That would worth sacrificimg Shelter when i’m at full health to gain a boost in damage.
That’s a good trade off.

Saiyan.1704:

I used to use Shelter on many small attack bursts, even if I had full health (preferably so) because i’ll get Shelter back later when i’m low and in need of a heal as well as another potential burn burst or might.

Now, there’ll be no reason to use Shelter on full health for just to 2 – 4 Might stacks or 1 – 2 burns. The playability/strategy will be removed.

Now.. i’m OK with a 1s icd as long as this is limited to per target rather than something global. That way i can still get 10 – 15 stacks of might in a zerg scenario. That would worth sacrificimg Shelter when i’m at full health to gain a boost in damage.
That’s a good trade off.

I think it is pretty obvious that its total blocks or what you call global . Any hard core guard can realize that your core gameplay has be castrated.
Please, don’t express how you feel if it might comes across as negative to Anet cause I don’t want any more infracted posts. This post has already been moved out of gameplay discussion. I apologize if I am to bold to sensitive ears.
thanks