Guild Wars 2

Thank you to all the people who will take their time to read this and give their attention to it. Please note that all of the following is my personal take on how I feel a guardian should be. All of the following is focussed primarily on the PvE side of a guardian.
I will be going over every single thing a guardian has to offer.

Zeal
Overall impression – Strong pick. Not enough build diversity possible.
Both Minor and Grand Master (with 1 exception) are lack luster.

Minor
Zealout’s Speed — Kind of sad having something that only activates on low (50%) health, this means there’s no reliable way to trigger it unless you want to be taking damage. Feels counter productive.
Symbolic Exposure — Extremely boring and on top of that very bad. Feels like something that should be in the base of symbols. Really sad to see this one hasn’t been changed to something fun. Duration is too short and can skew up vulnerability stacking.
Symbolic Power — This seems in line with the Zeal specialization.
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2 minors that feel out of place. These definitely need to be looked at!

Adept
Wrathful Spirit — Underwhelming. Only triggers on Aegis and not blocks makes it too niche. Retaliation is not that great in PvE.
Fiery Wrath — The light shines bright with this one. I don’t see why you would choose any of the other 2 over this one.
Zealous Scepter — Scepter auto attacks are still super annoying. Both slow, hard to hit, and on top of that not even too rewarding when they do hit. Only synergises if you wield a torch offhand. Seems very niche as you need both a large hitbox enemy + close range combat. Where’s the 10% damage increase?
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No good options in Adept as Zealous Scepter is too niche, and Wrathful Spirit is just simply bad/boring.

Master
Binding Jeopardy — A good trait you would want to take, has synergy with lots of weapons to give a nice vulnerability stacking mechanism.
Zealous Blade — If you run greatsword as a main weapon, this is a pretty straight forward choice. Lower cooldown, more damage, heal seems out of place in a zeal line.
Kindled Zeal — Condition damage on a guardian feels out of place. Feels like it should just buff burning damage by 25%, longer burns, or something along those lines. Maybe also reduce cooldown on skills that cause burning, maybe do something more for a focus or shield (as torch gets love in Radiance already).
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Only real choice is Binding Jeopardy vs Zealous Blade. Both give decent options, feels like a – if vuln stacking is needed take Binding Jeopardy, if not take Zealous Blade.
Issue: If you already have nice vulnerability stacking, and you don’t run a greatsword, there is no valid third option.

Grand Master
Expeditious Spirit — Spirit weapons need more love. This won’t be enough to get them to a nice spot. The actives feel underwhelming. I’ll go over Spirit weapons further on. Where’s the spirit weapon damage increase?
Shattered Aegis — Feels really out of place for a Grand Master option. It feels lackluster for such a prominent spot. It was barely taken as a minor, why shove it into a major without any changes?
Symbolic Avenger — Feels like the opposite of Shattered Aegis. If you’re going to be utilizing symbols, you’ll definitely want this.
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2 Extremely out of place options, leaving you with only Symbolic Avenger.
Odd not to see it compete with something like symbol duration increased, or grant might while in a symbol… or at least something worth choosing.

Radiance
Overall Impression – Strong Pick. Super lackluster Grand Masters, and some things feel really out of place for PvE. In a better place compared to Zeal diversity wise, but still not in the right spot. You’ll want to be burning your foes for days! Really big difference in power in some of these options.

Minor
Justice is Blind — Has nice functionality.
Renewed Justice — Only good if you’re going through trash mobs. Boring / bland functionality. On kill is not fun.
Radiant Power — Seems like this would be a better option as something you want to choose, and not necessarily a minor. Definitely big potential.
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They feel weird and out of place for PvE. On kill effect is definitely either Hit or Miss for situational use, which is why it’d serve better as an option. Why not give something meaningful and then move it to the Adept line instead of Healer’s Retribution? Radiant Power seems really strong.

Adept
Healer’s Retribution — Is this a joke? Why is this still in game? Bad beyond reason.
Inner Fire — Promotes good play, keeping stacks of burning on enemies (either by you or your team) is rewarding you. A lot better than the previous (gain fury when you burn).
Right-Hand Strength — More like Sword Strength. Why is it only for sword? Aside from that, nice crit chance increase if you’re using 1h weapons. If you’re already getting fury from your party (ele blast – warrior shout) then this is a good option for 1h users.
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First thought was power creep crit chance on 1h weapons. Fury + Radiant Power + Right Handed Strength. That’s a 60% crit chance, on top of your base stats. Aside from that if you don’t run 1h weapons and you have fury from your party… there’s no third option.

Master
Wrath of Justice — This seems pretty cool for PvP. PvE, not so much. ICD scaling with Virtue of Justice cooldown pretty please? Would make it a lot more streamlined. ICD goes against the second minor that already feel odd. Why not just make the Virtue of Justice active immobilise enemies? Feels really odd to tie it together with a signet active, when that signet active is only immobilise. Confuses and reduces clarity.
Retribution — More damage during retaliation. Pretty straight forward.
Radiant Fire — Torch offhand would be really strong with this. Was really hoping for some kind of love like this for the shield / focus / scepter somewhere.
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Really liking Radiant Fire’s thought. Even if you don’t have a torch offhand it still feels like a very good option to take over retribution. Wrath of justice feels very out of place for PvE. Maybe even if you carry over the signet passive if Wrath of Justice is up. Anyhow, that one definitely could use some tweaks.

Grand Master
Amplified Wrath — Ah, there it is! Why was this moved again? Pretty cool that blocks burn foes is incorporated. Solid option on first glance, has nice synergy options. As well as the new burn stacks might actually make the burn damage increase more significant (although I would argue that for PvE it will still feel lackluster, and in PvP 33% is fine… Makes me curious if you ever tried just to amplify it to 50-100% for PvE and see if it’s too much or not, I wouldn’t be too surprised if it felt more appropriate that way).
Perfect Inscriptions — Was really hoping for signet passives to remain active. Inscribed signet not incorporated with this sadly. Signets would still feel underwhelming with this.
Radiant Retaliation — Still just as bad as always. No reason to take this, even if you’re full condition damage. Can we get something else?
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They all feel underwhelming and not build defining for PvE. Pretty lackluster for Grand Masters. With some tweaks Amplified Wrath and Perfect Inscriptions could be really difficult choices over eachother and the latter could make you want to use signets if it did have that extra Umph. Overall still nothing you actually really want in here.

Valor
Poor pick. This whole line seems like something you’ll absolutely want to skip for PvE. I really have no idea why you would choose this here. Poor build diversity and poor options all together. If you want Altruistic Healing, you’ll fall down the pit of chosing bad stuff to get there again…

Minor
Valorous Defence — Same criticism as Zealout’s speed, except that you would use this for survivability, so there’s no reason to trigger it on purpose. Although it’s sad you might not see it used at all if you’re a skillful guardian.
Courageous Return — You get more defense after you revive or rally. Too situational. Which is why I feel this shouldn’t be a minor.
Might of the Protector — Pretty straight forward. This feels at home in the Valor specialization.
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I’m really not happy with having to get in specific situations to trigger minor traits. It doesn’t feel rewarding and it doesn’t promote skillful play.

Adept
Strength of the Fallen — This just feels really weird, why are these two linked together all of a sudden? Doesn’t seem strong enough.
Smiter’s Boon — Seems like a cool thing to have for sure. Can synergise with other skills.
Focus Mastery — Makes sense this is moved into a defensive line. Feels like a good place.
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There needs to be a valid third option here. Strength of the Fallen is super lackluster. The other two can be pretty good for a defensive line.

Master
Stalwart Defender — Boring and shield is still bad even with this.
Strength in Numbers — Only decent in PvP / WvW.
Communal Defenses — This one feels good for where it is.
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Only 1 option. Where’s my diversity? Stalwart defender relies on using a bad weapon and doesn’t do anything to make it good. Strength in numbers is very lackluster for PvE, look at how much impact Spotter / Empowered Allies has. This is the complete opposite.

Grand Master
Altruistic Healing — Feels like it belongs here. Happy with where it is.
Monk’s Focus — Oh my, PvP meditation players rejoice! Also feels pretty good for PvE.
Retributive Armor — Feels out of place for PvE, I’m not too sure how this one will end up and I’m curious to see.
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Definitely some choices to make here for a defensive guardian. Overall, the whole line seems more aimed towards PvP/WvW and not so much PvE.

Honor
Meh pick – Adept traits are trash. Limited options for Master. You would only pick this if you want the Minors and a Grand Master.

Minor
Vigorous Precision — I like where this is at.
Selfless Daring — I like where this is at.
Purity of Body — This is ok, pretty boring.
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Not much to add, I feel they’re in a pretty good spot.

Adept
Invigorating Bullwark — Really opens up mace options! Love to see how this would go. Even though in PvE you would opt for more damage, maybe with new and harder encounters this will become more interesting. Healing power in general feels lack luster, except for the scaling on Selfless Daring… which it’s in the same line with, thus synergises… so it’s definitely an interesting thing to go for… but in the current state of PvE this is not good.
Protective Reviver — Merge this with Strength of the Fallen.
Protector’s Impact — Ugh. Only useful for jumping puzzles. I don’t think these will do much for anyone in normal play which is why I think they’re bad.
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So if you’re not using a mace, there’s no valid option here. Really poor choices here. Please do something about it!

Master
Honorable Staff — I like that it increases all boon durations, and not just boons you get via staff skills. Although I feel that the staff boons could get an additional 20% increase to make them more impactful.
Pure of Heart — Sad it’s only via Aegis and not just a block. Pretty bland option.
Empowering Might — Might duration is too short to make it viable. It will only skew with might stacking and will be very counter productive.
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Again, no real good options unless you run a specific weapon. Please take a deeper look at this!

Grand Master
Pure of Voice — Prime example of what a build defining Grand Master should be. This feels like it belongs here.
Writ of Persistance — Feels out of place, would’ve loved to see this in Zeal (without the healing aspect). Although it would definitely be nice to have. Feels good in a Grand Master slot.
Force of Will — Supporty style kinda thing going on. Seems like it’ll end up being a good choice for a Grand Master in Honor if support is needed. Which, right now, is not needed too much.
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Not too sure how these will end up.

Virtues
Strong Pick – Not enough diversity but enough to make you want to have this.

Minor
Inspired Virtue — Nice and strong. Feels at place.
Virtue of Retribution — Pretty weak, bland and boring.
Power of the Virtuous — Nice and strong. Feels at place.
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Not much to add, other than that I would’ve loved to see something else in place of Virtue of Retribution or maybe something that would’ve made it interesting.

Adept
Unscathed Contender — Promotes skillful play, definitely a strong pick.
Retaliatory Subconscious — Very odd place for PvE, really makes me wish PvE/PvP were seperately balanced.
Master of Concecration — Strong pick. Could be moved to a Grand Master as it is definitely build defining.
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Struggle between 2 options and the third definitely is irrelevant for PvE.

Master
Supreme Justice — Counter productive with Renewed Justice. Just shows you again that Renewed Justice is out of place. Aside from that anomaly, it’s a decent choice.
Absolute Resolution — Strong condi cleanse choice. Feels like a valid choice. Passive effect is too negligible.
Virtuous Mallet — Feels out of place. Does not belong in virtues. Not a strong choice.
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Sad to see counter productive traits, as well as just counter productive things to activating your virtues as a guardian. Really doesn’t promote teamplay. Virtuous Mallet seems like a definite work in progress and I hope it finds it’s place.

Grand Master
Permeating Wrath — Why only the passive effect? Again, counter productive with other specialization choices. Other than that it feels alright once it’s moved to on target instead of on you.
Battle Presence — Feel like it shouldn’t be a Grand Master, not build defining. It’s just a nice passive effect to grant your team some more health regeneration.
Indomitable Courage — Really feel that if it also broke stun for allies it would be a worthy Grand Master. I’m glad you can choose it with Absolute Resolution.
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Some stuff you might switch back and forward through but definitely not too impactful in PvE aside from a few encounters.

Options that feel most out of place and/or serve the least purpose
Now here I will go over every single trait that I feel serves way too little purpose in the whole game. This includes WvW/PvP. So I wouldn’t mind if all of these trait were thrown out the window. These things aren’t even niche or situational enough to be considered good. This excludes some things that serve a clear purpose in the game, even if they have an option that clearly outshines them (that is a different issue).

Wrathful Spirit
Kindled Zeal
Expeditious Spirit
Shattered Aegis

Healer’s Retribution
Radiant Retaliation

Courageous Return
Strength of the Fallen
Stalwart Defendner

Protector’s Impact

Isn’t the new IC just a combination of the old one and Shielded Mind? I think the stun break does count for everyone.

Overall I can’t quite tell if you’re pessimistic or not. Maybe just somewhere in between. I think PvE has only been buffed by these changes and we may even see viable builds for less often seen weapons. The wild card in the whole thing of course is the encounter design that we will get in HoT and beyond.

They’ve definitely been buff’d that’s not the point of this topic. Not only are there better traits overall, you also get more.

I think the main point of this is showing how many things are absolutely adding little value to both build diversity and to actually making meaningful choises. In the end, there’s not going to be that diverse.

Mostly Valor and Honor are in a bad spot.

Valor
Minor
Only might of the protector is something you will notice. But if you’re in a decent party composition, might stacking will already happen. So, all minor’s are useless.
Adept
Really niche to pick a focus over torch now it seems. So, only 1 valid option. Smiter’s Boon.
Master
Communal Defenses is the only viable option.
Grand Master
These are fun, and here I’m getting to my point. It still feels like such a waste having to slot all the way into this to get something here.

So I’m just very disappointed at some of the traits. That they’re absolutely never going to see any proper use. Both minor, adapt, master, and some grandmaster ones.
That’s the very thing they said they wanted to remove, which is why I went over every single one to show which are are absolutely lackluster for PvE. Some are lackluster for every single aspect of the game. That shouldn’t happen!

On top of this, I’ve also shown the lack of build diversity in each line. Where there’s really only a couple choises to make.

As far as I can see. some of the traits that seem like pretty underwhelming picks should be given a few looks by the players. Think about it because while it seems like underwhelming pick you’re basically getting it for free with all the traits that you would currently pick, being rolled into one package like Monk’s Focus, PoV, etc. It also isn’t limited in having to balance trait points anymore, the three lines you pick will be the three lines you get maxed out.

Edit: I also understand as well this is a PVE centric feedback list, though you have to remember that some of these traits are pretty decent in PvP. I don’t think recommending a change a new trait/replacing one(Assuming that’s what you’re recommending by bringing it up) for the sake of PVE and optimal spec building would be a good idea. Also when HoT does release there might be a chance where everything people find useless in PvE, some of them will find a use.

Zeal seems to be a good choice. It offers vuln/more dmg/burning on symbols which is good for hammer and mace. Combined with symbolic avenger Hammer might be the next metabuild. Fiery Wrath is strong.

Radiance seems to me not worth it anymore. It offers blindspam and vulnspam combined with zeal. But only on trashmobs, not on bosses where vuln would be more helpfull. Radiance loses its dmg mod and gets a lot of crit chance improvements. Atm meta is 45005 without right hand strength. Don’t think it will be needed in the future. With banner, buffood, fury and a ranger you are close to the cap.
Maybe if you’re running a soldiers set, ok. But for bersi I dont think so. On the other hand it might be possible to switch some bersi parts for valkyrie to gain more survivability since you’d hit the 100% anyway.

Valor seems to be a weak pick for group PVE. Maybe for some more aegis and more selfheal via AH, to carry bad groups.

Honor seems okayisch. Vigor on crit is good. No usefull adept trait is not so good.
Empowering might seems ok if you got no long lasting might (PS War), symbols would cover firefields anyway so it should be ok. Pure of Voice is good, writ of persistance is a good choice for hammer/mace.

Virtues are strong. Unscathed Contender and Master of Concecration are both strong. Virtues got a dmg mod, condi removal and extra stabi. If you don’t need the stabi battlepresence is still an option.

Atm I think Hammer has good chances to be the next meta. Maybe hammer/mace, drop mace symbol, switch to hammer and keep autoattacking. Imho 60066 would be a good choice. Would lose blind/vuln spam but other classes can bring vuln/blind too. Symbols also bring some vuln.

Yeah Lucentfir, I agree that some of the things are definitely with PvP in mind.
But there’s still a dozen traits in there that have absolutely no place in the game.
Hope they really take a better look at them…

Zeal: I pretty much agree with everything except Binding Jeopardy. I still think it’s too weak to compete against Symbolic Avenger.

Radiance: Completely agree with concerns here

Valor: Agree with all except Courageous return, I think it’s too situational/weak. Give it something on top of it.

Honor: Agree with all

Virtues: Retaliatory Subconscious is incredibly weak, needs adjustment. Agree with rest

I agree with a fair bit of what you had to say. One thing I would like to see in terms of reworks, is the the Adept line in Honor. Mace is good but specific while the other two don’t feel usefull. So it ends up feels like you’re picking the best out of a bad hand, rather than good compelling choices.

Arken.3725:

Zeal: I pretty much agree with everything except Binding Jeopardy. I still think it’s too weak to compete against Symbolic Avenger.

Radiance: Completely agree with concerns here

Valor: Agree with all except Courageous return, I think it’s too situational/weak. Give it something on top of it.

Honor: Agree with all

Virtues: Retaliatory Subconscious is incredibly weak, needs adjustment. Agree with rest

Edit: Just to addon, I still hope we can get some soft cc going because the nerf to hammer chill was pretty big. Also, a 25% movement trait was something EVERYONE wants I think.

Valor spec will work really fine for the new PvE areas like Silverwastes. With a medidation build and Shelter, you’ll have even more cleansing, even more sustain, more damage, more fury, and shelter is godlike at giving you 5-10+ stacks of might when you use it against thrashers/ griffs. But the biggest flaw with the new valor? Its master traits. They’re all defensive or niche (shield). Strength in Numbers is cool with the new Retributive Armor, but we’re talking about meditation builds here. It’s kind of restricting. What is there for them to pick?

Honor’s adept major traits are laughable. The mace one is cool, but specific to that weapon. What else do we have? A rez trait, and a fall damage trait. That’s almost parody-level: you basically won’t want to touch this line if you’re not using mace, unless the other options justify it. Anet should seriously swap one of the last two adept traits with another one from another line.

Empowering Might needs to have its cooldown scrapped, and higher duration. After that, it’ll be sweet with Writ of Persistance, the mace trait, and with zeal, in a mace+hammer build. It’s pretty much the best you’ll get out of honor in current pve, but only if anet buffs it.

Retaliation traits are, generally, weak. I like the one that offers +10% damage modifier, and I’m fine with the improved minor in virtues, but anet should take a look at every other one, ESPECIALLY radiant retaliation. Also, what about a +33% retaliate damage trait? It fits thematically with the guardian. Perhaps that trait could be added into zeal’s Retribution, have it moved to grandmaster tier so that power builds can have anything outside of burn and signets, and then radiant retaliation moved down a tier so condition users can actually combine it with amplified wrath (or even with my suggested version of retribution). Best of both worlds. EDIT: Nevermind, radiant retaliation will then have to compete (and lose to) radiant fire.

Arken, I can’t say I agree more. Definitely some nice spots where a proper hammer trait can do and where it fits in more than the Virtues line as well. Sad to see 2h mastery being relocated to several different traits as well, forgot to add that.

And yeah Diogo, I completely agree with you. But in general my post was for the more veteran guardian who doesn’t need to rely on things like Altruistic Healing / Meditations or using a Staff to stay alive in PvE.

It’s like sure, if your party is dying a lot the rez trait will be good. But is that really promoting skillful play? No, which is why I don’t think it should be as an option competing with a mace and a useless trait… There really isn’t a good option there indeed!

About Protective Reviver… Will it still only work after reviving completely defeated allies or will it actually proc if you help someone downed up? As long as it only works on defeated people it’s pointless because you only have time to revive someone who is completely defeated after the fight is over – and what do you need those boons for then when he is already getting full health automatically?
Hope they change it to proc after you help a downed ally up instead, the bubble from Shield of absorption itself is already nice and the combo of them too working would be lovely

Also Eekzie, i’m speaking strictly from an spvp PoV. Valor is still going to be a necessity for sustain so that leaves 2 more lines. Without any real access to movement/soft cc, Guardian just doesn’t feel like a proper melee profession.

One more thing I wanted to point out was that if you don’t decide to spec at all into Virtues, the class mechanic (Virtues) will be pretty much nonexistent. Having some traits spread across all tree’s would be nice as well.

Arken.3725:

Also Eekzie, i’m speaking strictly from an spvp PoV. Valor is still going to be a necessity for sustain so that leaves 2 more lines. Without any real access to movement/soft cc, Guardian just doesn’t feel like a proper melee profession.

One more thing I wanted to point out was that if you don’t decide to spec at all into Virtues, the class mechanic (Virtues) will be pretty much nonexistent. Having some traits spread across all tree’s would be nice as well.

Yeah I’m still not sure how I feel about that one, I’m inclined to agree with you that it’s either no good virtues or really good virtues. Valor definitely feels mandatory for the Monk’s Focus.

Makes me super curious what the Elite Spec will add, we might just see a bunch of Zeal – Radiance – Elite Spec for PvE.

PvP/WvW wise both Valor and Honor are completely viable options. I’m thinking it’s too early to make proper statements for PvP, although build diversity still seems like an issue in PvP for me. WvW always has and had lots of build diversity ’cause you could take on so many roles (frontline / roam / mid support / etc)

I think more so with Valor if you want to spec DPS. I don’t see Honor providing much self-sustain. Also, I still think Force of Will is still too plain/not enough to compete with Pure of Voice

Honor can provide useful sustain if you run hammer and/or mace, and opt for the Writ of Persistance.
Hard to judge now if they’ll tweak the numbers to where that feels really strong.

Also, I think you should add these to the list that need to be looked at/serve the least purpose:

Zealous Scepter: This needs a 10% dmg increase along with the proposed changes as well as it’s tracking fixed.

Zealous Blade: A very poor trait for GS since the healing is incredibly small as well as the dmg bonus.

Renewed Justice/Courageous Return: Both need an added effect. Kill/revive traits feel useless during combat.

Valorous Defense: I think this needs a complete overhaul. I never notice its existence.

Retributive armor: Directly competing with the other traits that provide sustain while this provides none.

Empowering Might: I also think this needs an overhaul. the ICD as well as the short duration make it very unappealing.

Battle Presence/Permeating Wrath: Like Retributive armor, these are directly competing with an amazing choice for sustain.

Retaliatory Subsconscious: ICD too long, duration too short.

Edit: To the post above, the sustain provided by symbols isn’t enough to compete with AH/Monks Focus.

Thanks Arken!

Zealous Scepter – Completely missed that the 10% damage increase is gone
Added that

Zealous Blade – With the 20% Cooldown being relocated from Two-Handed Mastery to this trait for a GS respectively, I don’t feel that it’s a poor choise. I do agree the heal is neglible, but the damage in combination with the cooldown is what makes this a valid choise.

Renewed Justice / Courageous Return – Think I feel I adressed this nicely, I completely agree and I think my original text portrays this.

Valorous Defense – Think this one is more aimed towards WvW/PvP, which is sad as it’s a minor. I feel it would serve better purpose as an Adept.

Retributive Armor – Still a work in progress, but I don’t think it competes in the same way as it adds potential damage on top. So you’d pick it for a different reason than sustain alone.

Empowering Might – I feel I adressed this in the original post. As I mentioned in the ‘’things I’d throw out of the window’’, there’s still things that you would use if the numbers were tweaked. This is one of them!

Battle Presence / Permeating Wrath – I don’t see how these compete with eachother for sustain. One is pure party utility and the other is DPS focussed.
Battle Presence and Indomitable Courage feel like they should compete with eachother as both are strong choices.

Retaliatory Subsconscious – Same as Empowering might. The retaliation does feel way too weak, but the Aegis is strong. So maybe if they tweak the numbers it’ll be a nice option against heavy CC mobs.

I just think that 10% instead of 5% for Zealous blade would make more sense. Also, having the heal tied to that specific weapon is incredibly limiting especially since it only works upon hit.

Edit: Again, scepter tracking needs to be adjusted, it’s just underwhelming to have 50% of your projectiles miss.

I don’t think the builds are going to change that much. We see a lot of different traits incorporated together which means we have more trait points left to diversify. This is a good step in the right direction. The main builds will still be very similar though.

Some grandmaster traits are really disappointing. Especially the utility group traits such as Spirit Weapons and Inscriptions are not grandmaster worthy and should be moved down towards Master or have something significant added to them.

PvE
PvE is still going to be all about damage and utility. 6 / 6 / 0 / 0 / 6 looks ideal with greatsword/sword+torch. Traits like Symbolic Avenger, Right-Hand Strength, Radiant Fire/Retribution, Radiant Power and Indomitable Courage are must-have traits. Also torch might become more dominant now with changes to burning.

PvP
6 / 0 / 6 / 0 / 6 or 0 / 6 / 6 / 0 / 6 for a DPS guardian with hammer/scepter+focus. Now that Monk’s Focus puts all traits into one it will leave room for other traits. Retaliation is getting buffed with virtue of retribution and burning might play a more important role in the build due to stacking intensity instead of duration. Virtuous Mallet looks kind of displaced right now though so I don’t think it will be used anymore as it competes with Absolute Resolution.

0 / 0 / 6 / 6 / 6 for bunker guard with hammer/staff or mace+focus. Mace/focus looks more interesting now as mace receives more healing power bonus (up to 500) and focus gets protection. Shield still looks weak. Writ of persistence is stronger now with the other two traits incorporated. Retaliatory Subconscious gives aegis and indomitable courage breaks stun, two nice traits I will definitely be using when I bunker.

WvW
0 / 0 / 6 / 6 / 6 for zergs. Honorable Staff, Pure of Voice and Indomitable Courage are all necessary in group play.

Nice assesment Noah, and to a certain degree I agree.
I’m not sure if sword/torch will be the best thing (as you don’t need a torch for Radiant Fire, and I’m not sure if you’ll need it for upkeep of burning… the blocks & blast finisher & condi removal from focus are still pretty strong). But, for ranged encounters Scepter/Torch is definitely going to be a lot stronger.
Also, hammer / mace might be very strong for the 20% damage from Symbolic Avenger. I’ll have to see how they tweak the numbers to make up my mind.

I agree with your PvP / WvW builds.

The more I think of it, I really hope they turn Zealous Blade into Two Handed Mastery.
20% Cooldown, 10% Damage on Two Handed Weapons.

At the very least, Honor adepts need more appealing options. Outside of maceblock heal stacks, the other two feel very weak.

Thanks eekzie for that review as I agree with most of your ideas about the renewd traits.
I am really excited how those traits will work out, once implemented with their final numbers. My thoughts are as follows:

• I imagine a burning guard would be hard to balance with stacking burning. (in PvP)
• Since PvE is all about maximizing your DPS, many minor and regular traits seem not worth it at all.
• Those two retaliation traits (Retaliatory Sub and Healer’s Retribution) still seem absolutely horrible. I wonder what you would suggest?
• Honor looks really good from a PvP perspective. Those grandmasters are all very build defining and stand out to be a prime example of how grandmasters should be. (Really having trouble to choose from)
• Zeal grandmasters seem kind of lackluster. (Beside Symbolic Avenger, which is very niche)

In the end I am still very happy that they managed to “clean” the old traits up. (80%)
But will Anet do the last 20% before 2016? I doubt it.

- D I V A

I think it’s worth mentioning that Shattered Aegis’ damage got buffed. They never said how much it got buffed in the stream though.

I think Battle Presence is a nice grandmaster, although I think its range should get buffed to 1200.

I don’t think Battle Presence is strong enough to compete with PoV, not even close.

Arken.3725:

I don’t think Battle Presence is strong enough to compete with PoV, not even close.

Power of the Virtuous is a minor trait? Or if you’re talking about Pure of Voice, there’s not much “competition” there since that’s in a completely different specialization.

Pure of voice, sorry I didn’t clarify.

Edit: Just the overall usefulness is far superior to a subpar regeneration. The whole point was to have them essentially be strong picks against each other. I don’t feel that’s the case here.

Overview
The previewed Guardian traits need better grouping and choices. Each specialization should have a theme and everything for that theme should be in that line. Each set of three choices should take similar effects and have them compete against each other (e.g. AH and Monk’s Focus). Here are my suggestions to work toward that goal (PvP/WvW background):

Zeal
Theme is Symbols and offense with two-handed weapons. Symbols provide powerful AoE and area denial in PvP, but their traits need cleaned up and a little less pervasive. Spirit Weapons could fit better. One-handed weapons and anything heavily burning-related was moved to Radiance.

• Increased Symbol damage could probably be removed (maybe condensed). A better alternative is to increase the duration or number of vulnerability stacks from Symbolic Exposure.
• Writ of Persistence would fit nicely as an alternative choice to a trait which directly increases symbol damage. Instead of doing more damage/tick, you have more ticks and are more likely to hit mobile enemies and you deny a larger area.
• A trait which increases combo interaction with light fields would be good.
• Change the spirit weapon trait to make spirit weapon command abilities create a symbol based on the weapon.
• Swap Fiery Wrath for the new Retribution trait, since symbols with combos will be causing a lot of retaliation.
• Even the fall damage trait kinda fits here.
• Create a symbol on weapon swap?

Virtues
This line should focus only on virtues, allowing you to do different things with them. The problem comes with passive vs. active. This line will always favor active use because of the reduced cooldowns. ANet should consider not having a minor trait reduce cooldown and instead allow major traits to make a targeted cooldown reductions. One cool thing I thought of would be to have each level focus on a virtue:

• Adept – Virtue of Justice: Choices are Justice is Blind, Wrath of Justice, and a the passive part of Supreme Justice with a virtue of justice cooldown decrease.
• Master – Virtue of Resolve: Absolute Resolution, Battle Presence + cooldown reduction, and TBD.
• Grandmaster – Virtue of Courage: Indomitable Courage minus the passive reduction, Unscathed Contender with cooldown reduction or proc frequency reduction, and TBD.

The downside is that this line becomes hard to avoid.

Valor
Theme is Aegis, blocking, armor, and sustain through healing. It’s in a decent state from the preview, though defensive lines will never appeal to the current PvE meta. My concern is that it may overshadow Honor a little too much for all but full defensive players.

• Grandmaster: Replace Retributive Armor with Pure of Heart (Aegis heals on removal). It fits the Aegis theme and it also consolidates three big heal traits into on choice. Monk’s Focus is a large burst of healing, but restricts abilities. AH is selfish, but is a lot in groups. Pure of Heart helps your group and wins or loses based on other choices.
• Master: Retributive Armor replaces Stalwart Defender. This slot is now a choice between a selfish trait, and two group traits with trade-offs which all increase defense.
• Adept (maybe): make it Aegis-themed and choose an effect for Aegis removal (direct damage, burning, retaliation). Kinda sucks, but the line is strong overall already.

Radiance
Theme is burning, one-handed weapons, and critical strikes. To contrast zeal, this will line will have less AoE and retaliation; instead, it has high damage through burning, even if being kited.

• Master: Fiery Wrath, Kindled Zeal/Amplified Wrath, Radiant Fire. Choice of more physical damage, more burning damage, or more burning application.
• Adept: Zealous Scepter minus weapon restriction, Inner Fire, Right-Handed Strength.
• Permeating Wrath goes in this line somewhere, allowing for AoE with burning.

Honor
Group support line, but focus on doing stuff actively – not just boons and healing. Consecrations and shouts both fit. Also include support or control weapons (mace, shield, staff, hammer, focus?). Here are some trait ideas:

• Consecration Trait: Bonus endurance regeneration when in a consecration. Make me want to stay in it and not die horribly for it. Also, suggest not doing the ground-targeting at all – IMO guardian should be close support, not backline.
• Off-hand Trait: Allies affected by off-hand abilities gain protection. Reduced off-hand cooldown. Shield #4 effect changed.
• Control Trait: Wards (Staff #5 and Hammer #5) also hurt enemies (slow?) and help allies (protection/vigor/heal?). Maybe make Shield #5 a ward.
• Remove on-crit emphasis.
• Boon duration increase trait?
• Some offensive group support as a minor trait.

I’m worried most about Honor. Even in ANet’s version, it feels like left-overs being carried by Vigorous Precision, Selfless Daring, and Pure of Voice.

Because the fall damage trait fits in well in zeal, perhaps it could be switched with zeal’s wrathful spirit? Zeal already has Fiery Wrath as an appealing pick-up for every offensive situation, so it getting a niche trait would be fine. This swap would allow honor’s adept tier to have a broader trait, and it would also synergy with pure of heart. Seems like a good and simple solution to me.

Wrathful Spirit > go to Honor.
Fall Damage trait > go to Zeal.

Arken.3725:

I don’t think Battle Presence is strong enough to compete with PoV, not even close.

I’ve always enjoyed Battle Presence in places where there’s people around to benefit and lots of damage incoming (deathmatch, WvW zergs) and now they’ve relocated it into the Virtues line where its one-stop shopping with the enhanced virtue. It may even give out the extra endurance generation to allies.

It also has odd synergy with spirit weapons as it will heal them if there aren’t enough players around to soak up all the target count.

Also wanted to point out that Kindled Zeal feels very out of place in Zeal. With condition dmg overall being nerfed without significant investment, having this in the power line makes no sense. If anything, the conversion should be changed to something else, maybe toughness?

Exedore.6320:

• Consecration Trait: Bonus endurance regeneration when in a consecration. Make me want to stay in it and not die horribly for it. Also, suggest not doing the ground-targeting at all – IMO guardian should be close support, not backline.

I don’t think the class should be so linear in that regard. Guardians’ supportive abilities should’ve never been restricted by range (and for the most part, they aren’t) considering that support is supposed to be their primary strength. Either way there are already tons of options for close-range support, and I think consecrations should stay as something different.
Consecrations being ground-targeted is a very important trait if one wants to help their allies with them, especially Sanctuary. It’s also pretty much a straight buff, unless you think taking the small amount of effort to place it down is a “nerf”.

Exedore.6320:

I’m worried most about Honor. Even in ANet’s version, it feels like left-overs being carried by Vigorous Precision, Selfless Daring, and Pure of Voice.

Resolute Healer/Protective Reviver isn’t a bad trait (at least not in PvP), nor is invigorating Bulwark, nor is Honorable Staff. The grandmasters in Honor are also some of the best that guardians will have. Protector’s impact should be scrapped entirely, and some skills like Pure of Heart, and Empowering Might need improvements (or just be replaced), but the overall trait line is by no means “bad”.

I think we need an offensive option in the Honor adept traitline. Swap Strength of the Fallen from the Valor line with Protective Reviver from Honor.
It even fits the traitline name with a bit of imagination. Change Strength of the Fallen so it says something like “Lose conditions at a set time interval. Deal increased damage while without a condtion” and change the name so it fits.

The reason the reduced health degeneration is so bad is because it makes it so that you bleed out slower in pvp and wvw.

@ the OP.

Was thinking of doing something similar to this, you saved me a ton of time.

I also agree with you on pretty much every point you made.

Over all though I need more time looking at the traits & thinking before I would suggest changes.

Arken.3725:

Also wanted to point out that Kindled Zeal feels very out of place in Zeal. With condition dmg overall being nerfed without significant investment, having this in the power line makes no sense. If anything, the conversion should be changed to something else, maybe toughness?

I’m glad it isn’t a grand master trait that’s for sure. I do feel that it could have been replaced with a different functionality. Increasing retaliation damage, blast finishers or even something like aura duration would have made more sense than it affecting condi damage.

Then again stacks of burns may prove Kindled Zeal as a useful trait after all. I have no clue.

Combine Kindled Zeal with Radiant Retaliation. Condition users will want a second “condition” for damage, so both need each other, and that way there’ll be no need to have RR compete with stronger burning, which is just silly. Condi-guardians will need as much help as possible to be viable, so their few condi traits shouldn’t stand against each other, at least not in this specific case.

I could see, however, RR to be a retaliation-version of Amplified Wrath. +33% retaliation damage, and a ret proc on being hit or something. This way, condi-guardians would have to choose between stronger burning, or stronger retaliation, but at the very least, both of them would have access to the improved kindled zeal, and thus, both of them would have access to the old RR effect where ret gets scaled by condi. damage.

tl;dr

Kindled Zeal: gains Radiant Retaliation’s current effect, where retal scales with condi damage.

Radiant Retaliation (revamped): Retaliation damage is increased by 33% + situational retal proc.

New Medi guard: lower burst, lower condi removal, slightly higher burning damage (unless burning is nerfed with the changes).

This change may bury Guardian in PvP.

I’m hoping they look to make more traits competitive with each other. The only line and tier I really had to think about what to take was radiance master’s. The rest I knew right away and that’s not good for diversity.

YuiRS.8129:

New Medi guard: lower burst, lower condi removal, slightly higher burning damage (unless burning is nerfed with the changes).

This change may bury Guardian in PvP.

From the looks of it they had either a guardian with soldier amulet or barbarian amulet.

The burning number when scrolled over was 135 at lvl 80.

Later when you see how much the necro could do via burning it was 350.

This likely means that while burning can stack in intensity it will have a much lower base number. Who knows what amulet the necromancer had, so how well it scales is anybodies guess.

So over all I hope they take a serious look at the guardian methods for applying burns.
They need to increase the number of stacks applied per ability & make some of them apply longer burns.
Otherwise burning from a guardian will barely tickle.

YuiRS.8129:

New Medi guard: lower burst, lower condi removal, slightly higher burning damage (unless burning is nerfed with the changes).

This change may bury Guardian in PvP.

Medi guard in PvP is pretty ridiculous right now. The amount of burst and sustain it has is over the top and it’s relatively easy to pull off.

If you look at the current hammer medi build and the new traits previewed Friday (which will change), then you’d take Valor and Virtues. You’d be missing Glacial Heart, Justice is Blind, and Vigorous Precision. However, you’d probably pick the trait which casts a meditation on heal in Valor and likely Strength in Numbers, which makes up for Vigorous Precision. Glacial Heart was taken more for the burst damage than for the CC, but you can pick either Radiance or Zeal for increased damage. With all the burst from meditations, the percent damage increases will make up for lack of Glacial Heart’s burst. So I don’t think you’re losing much at all. It will just be different.

I’m looking forward to being able to try some new specs, but being that we’re gonna be “restricted” to 3 trait lines I wont be able to keep my current spec which I’ve rather enjoyed.

I think Zealous Scepter having a proc on VoJ passive is cool, especially since you can, if you also take Supreme Justice, get scepter 2 to potentially proc 5 times by itself, but that it gives you might on those procs makes it really situational especially paired up against a flat 10% dps increase. If it did something more interesting than might stacking, it might be a more worthwhile choice.

Also, I think a lot of the retaliation traits are completely fine, except that retaliation itself isn’t. So the fix there is not to change the traits, but to make retaliation worth caring about. There’s a lot more build diversity if retaliation is something that makes sense for pve. Same thing for stuff like Spirit Weapons and Signets; the GM traits for them become very powerful choices if those are more viable even before the traits, and that’s something that really needs to be addressed at the level of the skills, rather than piling on more trait buffs to lackluster abilities.

Smiter’s Boon might have interesting synergy with Litany of Wrath and Monk’s Focus

Not only would get healing from Litany’s base heal + Monk Proc, you’d also get an additional Monk Proc from Smite Condition + 25% of the damage done by SC as healing.

1640+1978+1978+(25% of SC’s dmg) – assuming there are targets to hit, quite easily 6k-8k of healing before you’ve even started a damage rotation.

SC might also have a small chance to clear poison or CC to make Litany more effective and you’ll get Fury for the full duration of the heal skill.

not going to read all dis cause, waw thats lot of text,

but will agree/say dem honor adept traits if u don’t use mace one are terrible.