Guild Wars 2

Hello, I hope we can use this forum to discuss the state of guardian’s shouts, their actual state, viability and usefullness.

I’ll start saying that the actual state, imho, is pretty bad since their “boon spamming role” has been destroyed by other class ability to spam boons. We need to bring them up again! or lower others ability to spam them…

Retreat!: I think the main reason guardians use this trait is to keep up unscated contender and… swiftness ofc but this one is not impactful on pve content. So my idea is:

Reatreat!: 30sec cd, applies aegis (15s) and swiftness (15s)

the lowered cd (aswell as boon duration) could help us keep UC active while giving us the same mobility, and we could cleanse 1 condi every 24s if traited which isn’t god mode considering that warrior’s shouts are on a lower cd.

Hold the line!: this should be our main defensive shout for group support but it isn’t enough to bring up defenses.

Hold the line!: 30sec cd, applies protection (6s) and regeneration (8s)

the lowered cd allows us (togheter with higher boon duration) to get a “nice” 25% protection uptime (if traited) which isn’t, again, “too much” just because (for example) revenants have 6sec prot on a 25 cd, it is legit to have 6s on 24s cd considering that we have to trait them to improve them.

Save yourselvess!: this is a selfish skill but good for aoe condition cleanse… where is the problem? Too long cd, togheter with the “received condition” malus & the fact that doesn’t work with “pure of voice”.

Save yourselvess: 50sec cd, applies “all the usual” boons but (if traited) removes 1 condition & convert it from each ally affected before pulling them.

Stand your ground!: this is a pretty solid shout just because stability is still one of few, very few, things we can give easily enough (well revenants can still give 50% stab uptime… but eh…).

Stand your ground: 30sec cd, 5 stacks of stab (6s) and retailation (8s)

I used the same “duration values” as for hold the line (6s major boon, 8s minor one)

Feel my wrath!: I get that 30sec cd was too low at beginning but cmon kitten it is a 50% nerf…

Feel my wrath!: 40s cd, applies quickness (5s) and fury (10s), istant cast (!)

why isn’t it an instant cast? I wonder about that everytime I cast it…

Receive the light!: this should be the "healing shout that we should consider over shelter… but really… why? high cd, mid health and adds nothing in terms of boons so here is my idea:

Receive the light!: 40sec cd, increased healing by 10-20% and applies resistence (4s) (or vigor (6s)), cast time sightly reduced.

That’s all from me, what is you opinion guys? I know shouts are already in a “good” place if compared to others utilities but cmon, these changes are easy to make (we are just talking about boon duration increase and cd reductions) and necessary to make guardian once again a good “boon spamming” class.

edit: these changes (or at least my ideas) are meant to be mainly for a pve scenario, not sure about pvp.

Keep in mind pvp when you talk about buffs and nerfs aswell as anet usually balances for pvp aspect since pvp is the most fragile place, (in terms of balance)

Timston.1976:

Keep in mind pvp when you talk about buffs and nerfs aswell as anet usually balances for pvp aspect since pvp is the most fragile place, (in terms of balance)

I’m sorry, I didn’t write that these changes are meant to be pve wise above all…

too much crying for my taste the only problem is with save you self which should apply 5 secs of resistance and hold the line which is kind of lackluster compared to other utilites. thats where the god mode starts towards condis starts. add in hunters Fortification, signet heal, cleanse trait and all the blocks we get from weapons and virtues we are already doing very well imo condi wise.

our shouts come with the benefit of pure of voice in mind which makes it difficult to shorten any CDs. without it and soldier runes they fall vey short except for stand your ground and FMW.

retreat is perfect for pve since hits can be calculated much better. so I really do not know where you take that it is not as useful as in pve.

Shouts are in a good place in my opinion.

Retreat works well, although your changes sound fine.

Hold the Line is a terrific utility even though it feels so lackluster. In perfect circumstances it increases the effective health of a guardian to 20k.

Stand your ground is great.

Feel my Wrath is great.

Save yourselves … this doesn’t even belong as a shout, feels more like a Signet active.

I do think it’s a little funny that no one so far, OP included, seems to have remembered that “Receive the Light!” exists. Shows how popular of a choice it is for healing, I guess.

Happy these are staying up!

So in my opinion the shouts are in a position where they are strong enough but could be just a little better. I did not see anything too extreme here so instead of small things for each of the shouts let me highlight the big changes we could make in my opinion, focus the weak ones.

Save Yourselves:
This is a little too suicidal at the moment however if a mechanics change is made it would be both very powerful and useful.
Pure of voice and Trooper runes should affect all allies then the remainder conditions are transferred to the Guardian. This leaves all your allies with a nice boon each, and lowers the sheer volume of incoming conditions on the guardian massively.
(PS this is a big change mechanically as ideally now you pull burn from all allies and then remove it and are left with less damaging condis, while the new way you might remove burn from some but not others and left with some of all condis on you)

Hold the Line:
This was supposed to be a huge boost to survivability cooldown, right now it is outclassed by a passive aura trait in Ele.
My recommendation is Hold the Line gives Protection, Regen, Vigor and Resistance!
Now that is a good cooldown, 5s Resistance and Protection and 10-15s for Regen Vigor. A bit of resistance for the team is what a bunk guardian should be able to bring.

Retreat:
My solution to this being underpowered is quite complex and isn’t a small change to the skill. Retreat grants Aegis but Aegis underpowered in PvP and raids.
Buff unscathed contender to “Aegis you apply grants a buff that increases DPS by 10-20% for 5s”. This means that guardian finally get a Druid like ability that will help bring them to a real raid healer level, and 5s of damage modifier is not going to affect PvP much at all. Join me in “Guardian Virtues – Feedback” thread to discuss this further.
(PS having Aegis pulses 5s of the bonus every second in a frost aura manner, ie. overwriting the buff each second)

Soryuju.8164:

I do think it’s a little funny that no one so far, OP included, seems to have remembered that “Receive the Light!” exists. Shows how popular of a choice it is for healing, I guess.

Hehehe … to be fair its only been a shout for 6 months.

Soryuju.8164:

I do think it’s a little funny that no one so far, OP included, seems to have remembered that “Receive the Light!” exists. Shows how popular of a choice it is for healing, I guess.

I actually use Receive the Light! in raid, I love it.. I’m always on blue (zones, I’m good at it) and it really helps popping it on everyone in the zone.
With the shout trait its a big heal, on a low cooldown, that doesnt requires a melee target (trap heal)

Soryuju.8164:

I do think it’s a little funny that no one so far, OP included, seems to have remembered that “Receive the Light!” exists. Shows how popular of a choice it is for healing, I guess.

You are right, I never used that simply because our class has low hp pool and considering the low health regen (if not specced into defensive traits) the block is something of essential… but you are right, I’ll add my idea about that to the OP

Arutha.9874:

Hold the Line:
This was supposed to be a huge boost to survivability cooldown, right now it is outclassed by a passive aura trait in Ele.
My recommendation is Hold the Line gives Protection, Regen, Vigor and Resistance!
Now that is a good cooldown, 5s Resistance and Protection and 10-15s for Regen Vigor. A bit of resistance for the team is what a bunk guardian should be able to bring.

That’s a very cool idea imho and something I never tought about but that I would like to see! My idea is more like this:

Hold the line!: 30s cd, applies protection (4s), regen (6s) and resistence (4s).

or

Hold the line!: 30s cd, applies protection (6s) and resistence (6s)

Now I have an interesting note for you:
dragon hunter received a trap (Test of faith) which applies 6sec protection and is on a 30sec cd (or 24 if traited)! the point is, on one hand we have

Test of Faith (traited): 24s cd, high damage skill, applies protection (6s), cripples enemies (6s), is unblockable and dazes foes

and on the other hand a crappy:

Hold the line (traited): 28s cd, applies protection (4s) and regen (6s), converts one condition into boon.

Really? -.-" it is evident that shouts need a rework in terms of “viability of boon uptime and quality”…

Yeah I know, skills keep getting buried that’s why they need substantial buffs to have a chance to become meta.
Yeah Resistance on Hold the Line was a spur of inspiration, I like synergy traits this way Save Yourselves with Contemplation of Purity could be replaced by Save Yourselves with Hold the Line. Then a full Shouts build could come back for Bunking.

I see no problem giving Hold the Line Regen and Vigor to any degree because all supports give that on almost 100% while Resistance and Protection mean people get a few seconds of release from condi pressure and melee pressure. A real team pushing utility that could turn the tide of a battle.

PS I do think the shout heal has a place, it is just over shadowed by shelter as always. Nerfing shelter a little might be enough. After all Recieve the Light has the same AoE heal as wash the pain away, so lower the cast time a little will help.

Receive the light would actually be more useful in most cases if it were rebranded healing fart and caused us to heal enemies behind us.

I say this because in most cases we are of best use on the front line.

All this being said they really should just make it heal in AOE around the guardian similar to that shout heal that elementalists got.

Shouts could use some tweaking & a few changes (buffs) that is for sure. (especially given that many other support specs support better while doing better damage)

That being said they are still better then signets, consecrations & spirit weapons.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Receive the light would actually be more useful in most cases if it were rebranded healing fart and caused us to heal enemies behind us.

I say this because in most cases we are of best use on the front line.

Or just make it pulse an area around us like an aura.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Shouts could use some tweaking & a few changes (buffs) that is for sure. (especially given that many other support specs support better while doing better damage)

That being said they are still better then signets, consecrations & spirit weapons.

Purging flames and wall of reflection can be really nice for PvE, WvW, and even some PvP situations, although it is kind of annoying that you have to choose between master of consecrations and unscathed contender.

Feel my wraith:
Ideally would be a ‘proper’ shout and not interrupt other abilities/have a cast time.

Receive the Light:
Needs to be made 360 like suggest. After all, it’s a shout. All other shouts affect all within a radius. I’ve been using it for the last three months, and cone in front of us is often just too impractical when used in battle with all the dynamics going on. When friends need healing, the last thing they’re going to be doing is standing static; they’re going to be moving/dodging.

Hold the line should have resistance boon. Right now as it is, I don’t really see how I should put it on the slot over other options.

quaniesan.8497:

Hold the line should have resistance boon. Right now as it is, I don’t really see how I should put it on the slot over other options.

That seems to be the conclusion this thread has reached so far.
I hope at some point the devs find these threads useful for future ideas.