Guild Wars 2

Raid: 24k sustainable dps, top 3 classes
Brings permanent protection
Helps with healing pulling pressure off druids (symbols)
Quickness and fury from elite

Spvp: the meta changes away from bunker actually BUFFED the DH. They are a direct counter to thieves, kitten on most melee, can beat revs now on point. Very solid class overall.
Bunker eles and mesmers are nerfed

Enjoy boys and girls. We are back to meta

On the downside, I’m finding myself having to kite the living shroudnuggets out of reapers. You really can’t manhandle them like you can some classes.

Ehh. Could be worse.

You can be a rev or ele. In which case you simply lie down and take it

Definitely better then it was before.

IDK if I would say the pure dps build is meta though.

Traps are just so easy to avoid and the lack of CC on the class can be glaring.

Guardian however does make quite a good bruiser with some heals to help allies.
(just prey to the light you don’t run into a condi reaper with any life force built up)

As for that 24k number I’d like to know who got that & how they got it. Last I checked the guardian maxed out around 18k and 24k would be a decent bump.

just auto with hammer
take damage traits for symbols

also have allies to keep up burning and cripple so you can use spear of justice for the damage boost without losing your other damage boosts

So is the 25k only for sabetha due to damage on adds or can a hammer DH hit 25k on VG too?

Kuya.6495:

So is the 25k only for sabetha due to damage on adds or can a hammer DH hit 25k on VG too?

Probably can because VG has super low toughness.

Kuya.6495:

So is the 25k only for sabetha due to damage on adds or can a hammer DH hit 25k on VG too?

All the tests were done during Sabetha p1, when she is by herself without adds.

Found where they are getting the number from.

Its from sabetha p1 where she doesn’t really move at all.

If a boss is moving around then your DPS will likely suffer a decent amount due to it relying so much on stationary symbols.

I’d like to see what hammer build is being used for this and it is dh or regular guard

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Found where they are getting the number from.

Its from sabetha p1 where she doesn’t really move at all.

If a boss is moving around then your DPS will likely suffer a decent amount due to it relying so much on stationary symbols.

This is true for a lot of other professions too, though.

Azure.8670:

I’d like to see what hammer build is being used for this and it is dh or regular guard

DH

take all traits that increase symbol damage, and in DH take traits that increase damage

It’s very simple, but here’s the actual build, if you can’t be bothered

Hunter.4783:

Spvp: the meta changes away from bunker actually BUFFED the DH. They are a direct counter to thieves, kitten on most melee, can beat revs now on point. Very solid class overall.
Bunker eles and mesmers are nerfed

Enjoy boys and girls. We are back to meta

I will believe this when I see it in the Pro League 2 in matter of ~4 weeks. Until then the only thing I saw were eles and mesmers demoted as top dogs and replaced by scrappers and druids (heralds stay more or less the same and a daredevil x team is a must). My bet is another three months outside the meta.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Definitely better then it was before.

IDK if I would say the pure dps build is meta though.

Traps are just so easy to avoid and the lack of CC on the class can be glaring.

Guardian however does make quite a good bruiser with some heals to help allies.
(just prey to the light you don’t run into a condi reaper with any life force built up)

Dps power build definitely is meta, unless anyone wants to share something that outperforms it :p (no but seriously, can’t find a viable condi build >.>)

As for traps, i’d only recommend Purification and ToF trap tbh. Guards who run more than that have to definitely play well, in a way that minimizes trap avoidance because they’re easy to counter…

You can’t 1v1 very well with a trap build. Those who do will otherwise get beat badly by classes most DH guards have no trouble with. Reapers are prime examples. They have to play darn well to beat a power DH. I mean they have to dodge Trueshots, F1, ToF, etc. We definitely give Reapers a run for their money.

Saiyan.1704:

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Definitely better then it was before.

IDK if I would say the pure dps build is meta though.

Traps are just so easy to avoid and the lack of CC on the class can be glaring.

Guardian however does make quite a good bruiser with some heals to help allies.
(just prey to the light you don’t run into a condi reaper with any life force built up)

Dps power build definitely is meta, unless anyone wants to share something that outperforms it :p (no but seriously, can’t find a viable condi build >.>)

As for traps, i’d only recommend Purification and ToF trap tbh. Guards who run more than that have to definitely play well, in a way that minimizes trap avoidance because they’re easy to counter…

You can’t 1v1 very well with a trap build. Those who do will otherwise get beat badly by classes most DH guards have no trouble with. Reapers are prime examples. They have to play darn well to beat a power DH. I mean they have to dodge Trueshots, F1, ToF, etc. We definitely give Reapers a run for their money.

Agreed. . Power DH is probably top 3 right now in spvp.

They make excellent bunkers as well.

Arcaedus.7290:

On the downside, I’m finding myself having to kite the living shroudnuggets out of reapers. You really can’t manhandle them like you can some classes.

Yeah, but you can’t really compare it to reapers. Reaper is possibly the strongest class right now in PvP.

dont forget 1 class per team

so we might see

daredevil – rotate and +1
DH – dmg on point
druid – sustain
scraper – sustain
necro – boon rip and condi pressure

SO happy Hammer is good again <3 Time to come back (:

JUGG, TIME TO WAKE UP.

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

Obtena.7952:

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

Then why were there no Guardians in any of the teams during the most recent tournament?

Ezrael.6859:

Obtena.7952:

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

Then why were there no Guardians in any of the teams during the most recent tournament?

Because the other classes were changed. OP explained it pretty well. Let me put it another way:

If the meta is such a dynamic beast when devs change the game, it is really a thing or is is just people’s perception? I don’t think I’m too far off. People QQ about what’s this and that; people that don’t want to figure it out themselves just go with it. My favourite is that just a few weeks ago before balance changes, people were QQing about the demise of the class. How does anyone take this stuff seriously, i don’t know.

No thanks I don’t want to play a clown with a bow with overpowered idiot traps. I’d like my old support bunker back I dont want to play a ranger in heavy armor its so ludicrous the DH idea not to mention it is a total low skill spec with tons of defensive cooldowns, self heals, and aoe spamming plus a ludicrously hard hitting single target skill on a low cooldown. It wasn’t noticeable before because of all the other broken stuff but now that stuff got nerfed all the feebleminds are now playing DH and Im seeing a minimum of 4 of them combined in most of spvp matches when you total up the ammount on both sides. All you are doing is begging for nerfs.

Obtena.7952:

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

In spvp they weren’t no one ran a DH among the top teams in ESL. Im not sure they will next season but they sure are getting annoying in random solo qeueue. The elite is poorly designed it requires very little skill to play.

Obtena.7952:

Jeez … Guardian was never NOT in the meta. These ridiculous ideas are from ranters trying to convince everyone that Guardian/DH is a horrible class. Funny that they got some of you.

Outside of low tiers, Gar/DH def wasn’t meta in season 1. I climbed to legendary solo, and I’d rank them as either the weakest or 2nd weakest class.

brannigan.9831:

No thanks I don’t want to play a clown with a bow with overpowered idiot traps. I’d like my old support bunker back I dont want to play a ranger in heavy armor its so ludicrous the DH idea not to mention it is a total low skill spec with tons of defensive cooldowns, self heals, and aoe spamming plus a ludicrously hard hitting single target skill on a low cooldown. It wasn’t noticeable before because of all the other broken stuff but now that stuff got nerfed all the feebleminds are now playing DH and Im seeing a minimum of 4 of them combined in most of spvp matches when you total up the ammount on both sides. All you are doing is begging for nerfs.

Have to say, I prefer the core guardian playstyle myself, and with traps now toned down a bit and core guardian stuff buffed I’m drifting back towards that rather than the ALL THE TRAPS build I was running shortly after HoT release. Enough that I’m back to feeling like a guardian with extras rather than something entirely different.

Further nerfs to dragonhunter may yet be justified, along with toning down of other elite specs… or buffing of core specs to match. Ideally, you should be able to play a core build and not be at a disadvantage simply because you’re not running an elite spec.

Largely, I’d have to say I agree with Obtena. I’ve been pvping with guardian for about a year now, and in that time I’ve never felt like I was playing a weak profession (not always the strongest, but never weak). That’s more than I can say for some of the other professions…

Just wondering, how do you get permanent protection? Hammer?

ArchonWing.9480:

Just wondering, how do you get permanent protection? Hammer?

Hammer autoattack with writ of persistence.

draxynnic.3719:

Largely, I’d have to say I agree with Obtena. I’ve been pvping with guardian for about a year now, and in that time I’ve never felt like I was playing a weak profession (not always the strongest, but never weak). That’s more than I can say for some of the other professions…

Guardians faced extinction in high competitive play after HoT release/Tage departure. Playing a Guardian/DH since then did mean that you can’t ask for a slot in any serious team.

Is not like everyone has time/wants to play at that level, but is discouraging to known that even if you want and maybe you have the required skill, your class is framed and you will not pass the cut. Same aplies to Warriors. Is not that hard to understand.

Some of the builds prevalent in that meta have now been nerfhammered into the ground, pushing guardians up as others get pulled down. Those that are dominating now will probably get nerfed in successive passes.

People mock the line about guardians being in a good place, but from my observation this seems to translate into being fairly stable at a position that is neither ridiculously OP nor ridiculously UP. I’ve done most of my PvPing with guardian and mesmer, and my experience has been that guardian has been consistently solid – not always the strongest in the field, but always capable. Mesmer, on the other hand, seesaws up and down hard enough to give you whiplash, and the constant build changes needed to keep up with that can make it hard to settle in to a comfortable style.

Doesn’t mean that there aren’t elements that can be improved to address internal balance, mind you, but overall I feel that the guardian is actually pretty much where other professions should be buffed or nerfed to reach.

I never touched guardian. My daughter wanted to try out and made one.
We looked at a build and i am quite good at this. Without looking annywere i ended fast with a build nearly equal to meditrapper …. Using hammer after a few games not S/F. It´s more like she got a hammer fan. The guard is quie solid. I main ele and ele is one of the strong guardian counter classes. With much less eles guards got an indirect boost and are quite solid in pvp. Especially solo que.

I’m about to reroll my day 1 Charr Guard into a Norn especially for he occasion,Wish me luck.
I’ve been waiting for Hammer to become meta since I first stepped foot in the game

I agree this is such a great feeling to play a recless hammer.
One great match i watched her playing. She aproched mit in forest coming from the chief. Three oponents were on the point. After a few seconds she decided today is a good day to die …. It was so much fun … She leaped on the spot from above with hammer 2.
Two got trapped in hammer 5 and a test of faith fired. The third got banished down the stairs. This was an epic picure watching these about 20 seconds fight.
She could not stand the backfire very long but one went down… A team necro joined in the last moment killing the dowend, she rallied and finished the rest ….
Great moments :-). Shes using a paladin/scrapper rune medi trapper but running honor.

Wait..when was guard not meta? PVP/PVE/WVW/Fractals guardian has always been comfortable. With all the focus on guard I don’t think it’s dropped below top 1/3 since launch

I read the post by obtena and proceeded to not buy the troll bait, I instead proceeded to the kitten shop.

Ok, I just saw the season 1 Pro League finals, and definitely Guardian/Dragon Hunter is not/will not be meta in season 2/the next three months. So let’s take a look:

• 4 teams, 20 players

• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Engi (Abjured and Rank 55 Dragons)
• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Mesmer (PZ)
• Rev + Necro + Ele + Engi + Ranger (Vermillion)

That makes 7 Revs, 4 Necros, 4 Elementalists, 3 Engineers, 1 Mesmer and 1 Ranger.

Enjoy the “Guardian/Dragon Hunter” back to the meta (the meta is not running this class, or a Warrior or even a Thief in your team if you’re going to face serious competition).

I don’t understand why this is a problem … do you expect all classes to be all meta for every game element all the time? That’s a very unreasonable expectation … you have played other MMO’s correct?

Obtena.7952:

I don’t understand why this is a problem … do you expect all classes to be all meta for every game element all the time? That’s a very unreasonable expectation … you have played other MMO’s correct?

No I don’t expect everything to be meta.

I am quite disappointed however at how many things on the guardian were either created badly in the first place, received uneeded nerfs or just left alone to become crap. (Hence why nearly half the guardian utility skills are rarely if ever used in any game node as well as nearly half the traits being crap and numerous weapon skills having serious problems)

It is also quite disappointing how Anet ignores the advice of many of the top tier players, especially when they are warning them not to do something. (for instance giving guardian traps, they knew the design & balance problems that traps have, were asked not to but did anyway.)

The first could be easily remedied if they would take some of their profits to hire some people to update skills on guardian & other classes.
The second shows a disconnect with how the class actually functions & what it is actually capable of. It could easily be solved by actually sitting down with the top end players and talking to them about how they use it & its problems.

I would love to ask the pro league finals participants why they think guardian, thf and warrior could not be used for their finals. I assume they tested some builds so they must have some valuable information.

Buran.3796:

Ok, I just saw the season 1 Pro League finals, and definitely Guardian/Dragon Hunter is not/will not be meta in season 2/the next three months. So let’s take a look:

• 4 teams, 20 players

• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Engi (Abjured and Rank 55 Dragons)
• x2 Revs + Necro + Ele + Mesmer (PZ)
• Rev + Necro + Ele + Engi + Ranger (Vermillion)

That makes 7 Revs, 4 Necros, 4 Elementalists, 3 Engineers, 1 Mesmer and 1 Ranger.

Enjoy the “Guardian/Dragon Hunter” back to the meta (the meta is not running this class, or a Warrior or even a Thief in your team if you’re going to face serious competition).

The only thing preventing DH from being top 2 or 3 class is Rev and Druid. We can’t 1v1 them efficiently and Revs pressure us all to well while remaining sustainy during burst situations.

Guards can also burst really well when the call is there. We can 1v1 necros, ele and 50/50 engis but not revs or druids

Edit
I’m actually surprised they brought Ele’s. I suppose because they’re bunkish, mobile and team support’ish. I would honestly try DH as they could use the extra cc and bursts.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t understand why this is a problem … do you expect all classes to be all meta for every game element all the time? That’s a very unreasonable expectation … you have played other MMO’s correct?

No I don’t expect everything to be meta.

I am quite disappointed however at how many things on the guardian were either created badly in the first place, received uneeded nerfs or just left alone to become crap. (Hence why nearly half the guardian utility skills are rarely if ever used in any game node as well as nearly half the traits being crap and numerous weapon skills having serious problems)

It is also quite disappointing how Anet ignores the advice of many of the top tier players, especially when they are warning them not to do something. (for instance giving guardian traps, they knew the design & balance problems that traps have, were asked not to but did anyway.)

The first could be easily remedied if they would take some of their profits to hire some people to update skills on guardian & other classes.
The second shows a disconnect with how the class actually functions & what it is actually capable of. It could easily be solved by actually sitting down with the top end players and talking to them about how they use it & its problems.

None of this is new for Anet or the MMO world in general though. I have yet to play any game where everyone is just so happy with every class, all the time. I mean, it’s the status quo that there are classes that move up and down in ranking, in and out of meta, etc … What people seem to expect is exceptional.

I don’t deny there are things that can be better but I don’t find that these threads are particularly constructive if you have something serious to say. Carry on I guess.

Kuya.6495:

I would love to ask the pro league finals participants why they think guardian, thf and warrior could not be used for their finals. I assume they tested some builds so they must have some valuable information.

To be honest, I expect part of it is that at that level, using a nerfed build that you’ve spent hours upon hours practising with is still a less bad option than switching horse midstream to a build that’s theoretically better but you don’t have the experience with.

I know I have builds that are regarded as not being as good as the best builds for the relevant profession, but which I do better with because it’s what I’m used to, and I haven’t spent nearly as much time focusing on a single build as the professionals likely have.

The proof will be in what happens in Season 2, when they’ll have more opportunity to build up skill with other builds before coming up against one another again.

draxynnic.3719:

Kuya.6495:

I would love to ask the pro league finals participants why they think guardian, thf and warrior could not be used for their finals. I assume they tested some builds so they must have some valuable information.

To be honest, I expect part of it is that at that level, using a nerfed build that you’ve spent hours upon hours practising with is still a less bad option than switching horse midstream to a build that’s theoretically better but you don’t have the experience with.

Most of those teams have truly capable multiclass players, and they can swap at will if they found some combo particulary strong. If Magic Toker is playing Rev instead of Thief is not because He’s better at using that class of He likes it more, but because on average Revs provides better value for the team composition.

@Saiyan: Ele is used mostly due they can cleanse conditions while remaining tanky enough and provide decent damage; Guardian/DH can provide cleanses but then hits like a wet towell.

ArenaNet has 9 classses, not 100+ like a MOBA (which are arguably way harder to balance) and classes in theory have several builds available through different weapons, skill, traits and stat combinations, but they consistently fail at provide at least one valuable spot (a viable build) for high level teamplay in the competitive portion of the game (sPvP).

They do things like discarding amulets (celestial, soldier…) because removing problematic stuff is easier than fixing and balancing skills (like the removal of the aquatic parts of the game).

They nerfed G/DH in the Jan 26th patch (cc from daze halved, damage from traps reduced…) because low level players complained about how OP were DH -when nobody was using DHs in the Pro League-, and they buffed the Smite Condition cleanse because… I don’t ever known why, that was a pointless enhancement that would not change the fate or state of the class at all in PvP. They went too much with the nerf hammer on the Mesmer, while going too litle with the buffs on Warriors; those clonclusions were pretty much evident for the top players right after the patch.

And still, they have this BIG problem with specializations vs core classes: is not only that they can’t balance the classes to provide reasonable chances to each one to be competitive, they also neglect the old ones to the point of no core class was being able to compete for a single slot in a four rosters of five top players. No one.

HoT was released in October; until -at least- June, Guardians, Warriors and Thieves will remain not viable in high end competitive game. That’s 2/3 of a year, and I find it embarrasing.

The only positive thing I saw is that at least now a lot of characters die in the matches and the gameplay is fast and thrilling. That’s a good point (albeit due they focused in removing amulets instead of balancing skills and traits the problem persists in WvW roaming).