Guild Wars 2

So lets discuss to the guardian balance Theory

Guardian
The Guardian is a heavy armor class who relies on boons to make up for their low levels of innate health. They focus on area control and punishing enemies for the position on the battlefield. We want them to feel very powerful when their boons are active, but if those boons are removed, they will start to feel pressure. They can remove conditions more easily than the Warrior, but share the Warrior’s need to be in melee range to dole out maximum damage.

Now if im looking the nerf they start to make to our class from october, i see really nothing about this, or maybe only the “leap of faith” cd reduction (to make easier to go on Close combat range) but things like:

“SOW double CD” or the recent “Vigorous precision change”, are just against this Philosophy (or at least for me)
A lot of have proposed a lot of good balance, that aim EXACTLY in this Way (like crippling simbols)
I really dont know What role Anet deserve for this class, but after 3 months i see only development contraddictions.

I don’t see anything happening that isn’t inline with that description.

1. Heavy armor class relying on boons: check
2. Area control and position domination: check
3. Condition removal: check
4. Need for melee range: check

Admittedly, I would like to see #2 a more significant aspect of the class (and have a larger impact on ranged weapons) but I don’t believe the specific details you mention are not inline with the overall feel of the class based on the given description.

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see anything happening that isn’t inline with that description.

1. Heavy armor class relying on boons: check
2. Area control and position domination: check
3. Condition removal: check
4. Need for melee range: check

Admittedly, I would like to see #2 a more significant aspect of the class (and have a larger impact on ranged weapons) but I don’t believe the specific details you mention are not inline with the overall feel of the class based on the given description.

1. Boons? Really? Compare the boons we give out vs those a Warrior gives out. Pretty sad really.
2. Area control? Really some how sitting on a point is supposed to be fun. Well sure go a head and be the master of boredom for all I care.
3. Condition Removal – seems ok
4. Need for mele yes, but limited ways to stay in mele. Any class in the game can simply run away from us.

How do we give out more boons than warriors?

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see anything happening that isn’t inline with that description.

1. Heavy armor class relying on boons: check
2. Area control and position domination: check
3. Condition removal: check
4. Need for melee range: check

Admittedly, I would like to see #2 a more significant aspect of the class (and have a larger impact on ranged weapons) but I don’t believe the specific details you mention are not inline with the overall feel of the class based on the given description.

Oh yeah our class rely on boons, but in fact, our boon generation is nerfed on every patch. Look things like AH builds, they rely on boon generation (or its better to say on boon tick) and now its nerfed a lot, the only viable option is AH Hammer, but its strictly tied to standing on the simbol (on pvp is not possible!), AH+vigorous precision, was the combo for every other weapon, to use AH effectively.

Area control? yes lol, so its supposed that a guardian have to spec only for bunker builds? area control is another thing, simbols and consacration are area controls effects, but are just UNEFFECTIVE for the purpose of control, are usefull on other way, but not for a real control.

Condition removal, yes this is the only things that is respected (for now)

Need to melee range, yes we have need to go on melee range, but how can we engage on melee if every one can flee from us? we neede more slowdown effect (i dont talk about immobilize, but some more SLOW opponent yes!)

Everything brought up is a valid concern. I’m just saying those changes are not outside the scope of the description for Guardian. They could nerf Guardian to the point of uselessness but still make the class fit that description. In the end, it’s not a very useful approach to complain about balancing changes by referring to the description.

Obtena.7952:

Everything brought up is a valid concern. I’m just saying those changes are not outside the scope of the description for Guardian. They could nerf Guardian to the point of uselessness but still make the class fit that description. In the end, it’s not a very useful approach to complain about balancing changes by referring to the description.

Really no

My 2 examples fit what im saying:

SOW nerf: less ground control, less buff, less heal per tick… so they messed up our survivability and ok they balanced it with -5 sec on a reach skill. but in facts, what we gain, is not comparable with what we have lost.

Vigorous precision change: Less heal from AH, so we have a LOW healtpool and they insist to nerf our healing capabilities.

Relentliss.2170:

Obtena.7952:

I don’t see anything happening that isn’t inline with that description.

1. Heavy armor class relying on boons: check
2. Area control and position domination: check
3. Condition removal: check
4. Need for melee range: check

Admittedly, I would like to see #2 a more significant aspect of the class (and have a larger impact on ranged weapons) but I don’t believe the specific details you mention are not inline with the overall feel of the class based on the given description.

1. Boons? Really? Compare the boons we give out vs those a Warrior gives out. Pretty sad really.
2. Area control? Really some how sitting on a point is supposed to be fun. Well sure go a head and be the master of boredom for all I care.
3. Condition Removal – seems ok
4. Need for mele yes, but limited ways to stay in mele. Any class in the game can simply run away from us.

Im sorry but…what? When I played Guardian after only using Warrior I found boons I didnt know existed. Guardian can get anything a Warrior can in terms of boons stability, vaigor, swiftness whatever compared with easy apply of Protection, Retaliation, and the occasional aegis. And ALL of the powerful boons have shorter cooldowns their our big boon powers.

Guardians are fine. Warriors are crap but Guardians are fine.

Boo, didn’t see your post when I made one as well.

Well my opinion on the stated goals for Guardians are that most people consider guardians more prone to conditions than other professions because of the lower innate health on the guardian. We are awesome at removing them though, so this balances it self out I guess with that being our strength and weakness.

As far as focusing on Boons, I do not know if we have a better time maintaining efficient combat boons more than others. What do you need to fight in the matter of boons?

• Aegis (we do this reliably but with long cooldowns and it only stops one attack)
• Fury (only one trait gives us fury and thats on burn)
• Might (We are decent at keeping might on, if not high stacks at least it is active)
• Protection (We excel at this with hammer builds)
• Regeneration (Maybe best or second best at keeping regen up)
• Retaliation (Very high uptime for guardians)
• Stability (Sufficent sources of stability to use on cooldown)
• Swiftness (Multiple sources but long cooldowns or require staff)
• Vigor (With a crit build this has good up time, with recent change it is easier for lower crit players to maintain this buff)

So we can keep protection, regen, vigor, and retaliation up in combat fairly well. Does this make us powerful or is it negligible as other classes can have these boons as well?

CMF.5461:

Boo, didn’t see your post when I made one as well.

Well my opinion on the stated goals for Guardians are that most people consider guardians more prone to conditions than other professions because of the lower innate health on the guardian. We are awesome at removing them though, so this balances it self out I guess with that being our strength and weakness.

As far as focusing on Boons, I do not know if we have a better time maintaining efficient combat boons more than others. What do you need to fight in the matter of boons?

• Aegis (we do this reliably but with long cooldowns and it only stops one attack)
• Fury (only one trait gives us fury and thats on burn)
• Might (We are decent at keeping might on, if not high stacks at least it is active)
• Protection (We excel at this with hammer builds)
• Regeneration (Maybe best or second best at keeping regen up)
• Retaliation (Very high uptime for guardians)
• Stability (Sufficent sources of stability to use on cooldown)
• Swiftness (Multiple sources but long cooldowns or require staff)
• Vigor (With a crit build this has good up time, with recent change it is easier for lower crit players to maintain this buff)

So we can keep protection, regen, vigor, and retaliation up in combat fairly well. Does this make us powerful or is it negligible as other classes can have these boons as well?

The way i see it is: we are mediocre from the beggining due to low hp, bad range and escape cause we have to patch up our tank side and thus even lose allot of dps.
Then we buff us up with boons temporarly and are a little better.

Now if u look at other classes they got boons too some manage better than us or can get a source of a boon from rune or sigil. Or by being close to us.

Others get extra enhancement cause of better range and/or hp while we play catchup.

So ya i find it negligible at its current state. Needs a rework.

Guardians need a total rework in the actual state.

• Low Healthpool base… Ok i agree with this, we have to rely on boons to be competitive so its a fair compromise, IF the boons are BETTER then the boons other classes have. And to do this they can create traits to replace the useless ones.

• Costant heal flow, the guardian is a particular class that broke the classic rules, its and heavy melee fighter, with low health, and to be strong, he need a costant flow of Health (regeneration, virtues, and traist effect) Nerf, to the ground this effects is like killing the class effectivness.

• Melee Fighter only…yes, i love melee fighting, but its an effective playstile only if you can constrict enemy in you attack range, warrior can do this with easy, guardian have not so many choices.

• Ground Control. Its only true for Spvp (with bunker build) where, the enemy need to take a point to win the match.(but all other classes, can do the bunker role) For other contests, this is just a non applied theory. As I said this many times. Ground control is not Stand in one place and wait for the enemy, (this is ground keeping) but is Create “zones of interdition” and “zones of punishment”, when an enemy is facing a guardian He have to feel fear, like walking on a mine field.
  Simbols, consacration, Wards: we need more tools like this, with different effects.(bonus, and mostly MALUS for the enemy)