Guild Wars 2

Guardian is lacking reliability when it comes to it’s conditions build especially with survivability.
This the build I use on my guard http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNArdRlsApZo97wbI8DNR8Ql1YUdAkAP61zwOcDA-TJRHwAV2fowpAAZZAAPBAA

It’s decent and provide me with might stacking and good healing but it is not solid. Burning mainly spikes IF you get attacked during Shelter but won’t exceed 1.1k per second. It is not guaranteed for the stacks to stay.
I propose to change Courageous Return to a trait that reduce incoming damage from burning foes and that Amplified Wrath becomes 35% increase and gain additional effect When burn is removed 25% of remaining damage heals you.

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

How is your build better? My burn is higher and I have more survivability. I realize that full meditation is not the best against conditioners. Your burn duration is not high enough to maintain a fight against engineer with double condition reduction 25%+50% under 33% health.
All I’m saying is we need more defense or healing from our condition side. Only trait that does that in Zeal is Zealous Blade but it’s not better than Focus Mastery. If they could at least have Kindled Zeal in Master we could reach 1k without 18 stacks of unreliable might.

It’s 60% burn duration vs. your 75%, and it doesn’t matter about how long it takes to ramp up duration it doesn’t add more damage, the current meta is condi engi/necro, so everyone is running condi removal, a burn build is negated by things like an ele dodge roll cleanse, thief stealth cleanse.

I would argue that guardians need a way to protect our burning since it’s essentially our only condi… so something like:

-Ignite the condition, if cleansed, for 30% of the remaining damage, so stacking it to 25 second cap will be alot of damage if its immediately removed.

or

-Burning has a 30% chance to not be dispelled by cleanse

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAsfRlsApboVDxcI8DRR8QljNVHANwje9PMD5AA-TJRHwABOFAILDA4JAoe/BA

Charak is correct in saying that you should be running meditations, however just taking a standard trip med dps and using a carrion amulet is not the right way to do it.

first off, use torch, not focus. yes, focus has a block and a potential condition cleanse, but in any fight that is more than 1 on 1, you cannot count on that always giving you the cleanse. The block is nice, but the CD is rather long, even with focus mastery. Torch increases your burning uptime by a very large amount with #4, and can also be used as a burst skill considering you have 2k power, and also adds another chunk of burning at range. Torch #5 is good in team fights for both damage and ally condition cleanse and if people are staying just out of range, and also because it is a rapid hit attack and can apply burning quickly.

I also prefer sword over scepter, simply because it lets me stay on top of people better for torch #4, but also because it is a blind and it also has zealot’s defense to help absorb some projectiles if you are taking heat from a range class (ranger zerk longbow/DS necro)

That’s why you can use both sceptor/sword and take advantage of RHS

or, drop the sword, use only the sceptor, drop 10 from radiance and +10 in zeal for 10% scepter damage

Charak.9761:

That’s why you can use both sceptor/sword and take advantage of RHS

or, drop the sword, use only the sceptor, drop 10 from radiance and +10 in zeal for 10% scepter damage

If you are not using GS in a condi hybrid build then you are doing it wrong. Binding blades is insane in this build, simply because the first hit can do a good chunk of damage, but the dot it leaves is effected by condition damage, and CAN NOT BE CLEANSED unless people effected leave a 600 range, and it is also an AoE, AND can also be used as a pull to help finish someone off if they try to run and are low.

Also, WW is great for damage and burning application, leap of faith for gap closer + damage + blind, Symbol for retal + damage, and your auto attack gives you might and cleaves… Also, with zealous blade, every hit heals you adding to your survivability.

GS is mandatory for a hybrid build.

Charak.9761:

That’s why you can use both sceptor/sword and take advantage of RHS

or, drop the sword, use only the sceptor, drop 10 from radiance and +10 in zeal for 10% scepter damage

I don’t like the idea of double melee weapon especially with guardian lack of mobility. I use scepter because it is the only real ranged weapons on guardian. GS is a must even if I don’t have Zealous Blade.
To be reliable we should be able to get 1k burning with no might stack, I need 18 with this build.
Kindled Zeal is in wrong place since Amplified Wrath outdo the potential.
Courageous Return is not that good either.

Charak.9761:

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless

I agree with you. Anet seems really don`t understand this…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf8dlsApcoNDxKI8DNR8QZdH8CZQ1BQC8oXNDA-TJhAwAJeBAw2fYcZAAHEAA

Yall do realize sword blocks as well as focus right? Dont need range weapon with sword and JI. In PVP I burn for 1040 with this build. No one has enough cleanse to keep it off of them for more than 3 seconds with the attack rate of sword and torch. Aegis block, Focus block, Shelter block, sword blocks… Have enough blocks and almost 18k HP, over 2.1k Armor, I kill faster than I will have to worry about it.

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Littlefeather.8623:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf8dlsApcoNDxKI8DNR8QZdH8CZQ1BQC8oXNDA-TJhAwAJeBAw2fYcZAAHEAA

Yall do realize sword blocks as well as focus right? Dont need range weapon with sword and JI. In PVP I burn for 1040 with this build. No one has enough cleanse to keep it off of them for more than 3 seconds with the attack rate of sword and torch. Aegis block, Focus block, Shelter block, sword blocks… Have enough blocks and almost 18k HP, over 2.1k Armor, I kill faster than I will have to worry about it.

sword dont block it destroy so it will not proc burning while blocking

Littlefeather.8623:

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Might on Block minor trait in Valor makes it so that you can put points into survivability and not lose out on damage. And in some cases you would surpass the damage that a pure Radiance specced condi guard would do.

In essence, you can go radiance but Valor is better.

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Might on Block minor trait in Valor makes it so that you can put points into survivability and not lose out on damage. And in some cases you would surpass the damage that a pure Radiance specced condi guard would do.

In essence, you can go radiance but Valor is better.

Yes but in comparison its inconsistent and you are missing the 10% dmg modifier, precision and GM traits from radiance. There is a trade off as it should be. With valor you get better survivability but radiance you get much better damage.

messiah.1908:

Littlefeather.8623:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf8dlsApcoNDxKI8DNR8QZdH8CZQ1BQC8oXNDA-TJhAwAJeBAw2fYcZAAHEAA

Yall do realize sword blocks as well as focus right? Dont need range weapon with sword and JI. In PVP I burn for 1040 with this build. No one has enough cleanse to keep it off of them for more than 3 seconds with the attack rate of sword and torch. Aegis block, Focus block, Shelter block, sword blocks… Have enough blocks and almost 18k HP, over 2.1k Armor, I kill faster than I will have to worry about it.

sword dont block it destroy so it will not proc burning while blocking

Last I used my burn guard in pvp was maybe a month ago, and it did block at that time, unless something has changed recently.

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Might on Block minor trait in Valor makes it so that you can put points into survivability and not lose out on damage. And in some cases you would surpass the damage that a pure Radiance specced condi guard would do.

In essence, you can go radiance but Valor is better.

You will not be able to kill fast enough, Mediation is good but if you’re trying to go condi damage why limit your condi damage by not going in Radiance ? Sure you can sustain longer but you wont do good burn damage, just make for longer fights.

I admit, using glass guard can be intimidating, but it’s definitely not as glass as glass thiefs if that’s whats holding any one back.

Alright we are slightly off topic. The point was that Guardian should not have to worry about survivability when going condition build. If you check my build link I go for full valor for the heal on boon rather than meditation heal because I get Might on swap and block. But it doesn’t always work because not everyone is DPS.
I’m still waiting to see a decent Spvp 6/6/2 condition guard(I like to be alive to see my burn).
The heal on might gain form Shelter saved me many times in 2v1 situation.
If any can provide specific weapons and utilities that can make 6/6/2 worth it I would like to see it because the Signets are awful.

Sagat.3285:

Alright we are slightly off topic. The point was that Guardian should not have to worry about survivability when going condition build. If you check my build link I go for full valor for the heal on boon rather than meditation heal because I get Might on swap and block. But it doesn’t always work because not everyone is DPS.
I’m still waiting to see a decent Spvp 6/6/2 condition guard(I like to be alive to see my burn).
The heal on might gain form Shelter saved me many times in 2v1 situation.
If any can provide specific weapons and utilities that can make 6/6/2 worth it I would like to see it because the Signets are awful.

Valor gimps condi guard, but as I mention the trade off is that you get more survivability depending how one looks at it. I say this because while you have more heals the fight will drag on longer. With valor, no condition sigils and no consistent access to retaliation makes you miss out on a lot of damage. But like I said, there is a trade off. So its working as intended.

Lately I’ve been trying to force myself to use signets. I hate them, but I’m trying not to hate them as much. They have advantages but feel a bit clunky for conventional use.

Here are some advantages I’ve noticed:

1. 10% dmg mitigation from signet of judgement and weakness access which is pretty significant given you have access to many other conditions.

2. Long range cc i.e signet of wrath and bane signet.

3. A passive boost to power and condition damage.

4. Can make use of inscribed renewal for condi removal.

5. Signet of judgment gives retaliation which goes well with radiant retaliation

6. All signets have relatively low cds

7. Good access to immobilize if you take scepter and signet of wrath

8. Signet of resolve has advantages over shelter. A condi removal every 10 secs, removal of one condi if you trait inscribed renewal. But the biggest imo is when you are interrupted it doesn’t go on full cd like shelter >.>. It also heals for a lot more with a similar cd when traited for signet mastery. Shelter is my favorite heal but I’ve started to appreciate signet of resolve a bit more lately.

There are lots of disadvantages though. Overall signet of wrath and bane signet feels very clunky when you get into a melee skirmish. Its like you won’t hit the target due to them potentially circling around you. Its pretty bad.

You also lose mobility, which is huge if you use sword for the MH weapon. Signets work better with scepter, yes scepter is a good condi weapon believe it or not.

Aza.2105:

Sagat.3285:

Alright we are slightly off topic. The point was that Guardian should not have to worry about survivability when going condition build. If you check my build link I go for full valor for the heal on boon rather than meditation heal because I get Might on swap and block. But it doesn’t always work because not everyone is DPS.
I’m still waiting to see a decent Spvp 6/6/2 condition guard(I like to be alive to see my burn).
The heal on might gain form Shelter saved me many times in 2v1 situation.
If any can provide specific weapons and utilities that can make 6/6/2 worth it I would like to see it because the Signets are awful.

Valor gimps condi guard, but as I mention the trade off is that you get more survivability depending how one looks at it. I say this because while you have more heals the fight will drag on longer. With valor, no condition sigils and no consistent access to retaliation makes you miss out on a lot of damage. But like I said, there is a trade off. So its working as intended.

Lately I’ve been trying to force myself to use signets. I hate them, but I’m trying not to hate them as much. They have advantages but feel a bit clunky for conventional use.

Here are some advantages I’ve noticed:

1. 10% dmg mitigation from signet of judgement and weakness access which is pretty significant given you have access to many other conditions.

2. Long range cc i.e signet of wrath and bane signet.

3. A passive boost to power and condition damage.

4. Can make use of inscribed renewal for condi removal.

5. Signet of judgment gives retaliation which goes well with radiant retaliation

6. All signets have relatively low cds

7. Good access to immobilize if you take scepter and signet of wrath

8. Signet of resolve has advantages over shelter. A condi removal every 10 secs, removal of one condi if you trait inscribed renewal. But the biggest imo is when you are interrupted it doesn’t go on full cd like shelter >.>. It also heals for a lot more with a similar cd when traited for signet mastery. Shelter is my favorite heal but I’ve started to appreciate signet of resolve a bit more lately.

There are lots of disadvantages though. Overall signet of wrath and bane signet feels very clunky when you get into a melee skirmish. Its like you won’t hit the target due to them potentially circling around you. Its pretty bad.

You also lose mobility, which is huge if you use sword for the MH weapon. Signets work better with scepter, yes scepter is a good condi weapon believe it or not.

You seem to partially get my point but the other downside signet are not that good against conditions sure you can wait every ten seconds for removal if you use the others one for utilities(if I am still alive). Retaliation doesn’t even trigger with conditions.

Sagat.3285:

You seem to partially get my point but the other downside signet are not that good against conditions sure you can wait every ten seconds for removal if you use the others one for utilities(if I am still alive). Retaliation doesn’t even trigger with conditions.

I disagree, signets are quite good against conditions. Better than most are willing to give credit to.

Inscribed renewal gives signets to remove one condition when used. This trait is similar to pure of voice, minus the conversion aspect. You do not have to land the attack to remove the condition you can cast the skill.

Signet of resolve removes one condition every 10 secs, 1 condition when you activate it. With purity you remove 2 conditions every 10 secs. Imo, the condition removal is good. Signets have other problems and its not against conditions.

Aza.2105:

Sagat.3285:

You seem to partially get my point but the other downside signet are not that good against conditions sure you can wait every ten seconds for removal if you use the others one for utilities(if I am still alive). Retaliation doesn’t even trigger with conditions.

I disagree, signets are quite good against conditions. Better than most are willing to give credit to.

Inscribed renewal gives signets to remove one condition when used. This trait is similar to pure of voice, minus the conversion aspect. You do not have to land the attack to remove the condition you can cast the skill.

Signet of resolve removes one condition every 10 secs, 1 condition when you activate it. With purity you remove 2 conditions every 10 secs. Imo, the condition removal is good. Signets have other problems and its not against conditions.

Tried Signets overall damage is stronger but there are risks when using Signet of Resolve especially in group fights. Not much of my playstyle but we’ll see I’m still hoping for changes in our traits.

Sagat.3285:

Tried Signets overall damage is stronger but there are risks when using Signet of Resolve especially in group fights. Not much of my playstyle but we’ll see I’m still hoping for changes in our traits.

There is a risk involved with all the heals. Shelter can go on full cd when interrupted, you can miss most of your attacks with litany of wrath, you might not live long enough to channel all of healing breeze. So every heal has some sort of draw back. It really is about ones individual play style, this I agree with.

I don’t think Anet will be making changes to our traits any time soon. My guess is that they feel and see what we have now is completely viable, its just the general perception of the player that causes them to feel what we currently have isn’t viable.

One of the builds I run in tpvp is a hybrid guard and it works pretty well.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAW5dlsApXoNDxYI8DNR8Ql9Y8itoVjQ1BQC8oA-TJhAwAUuIA62fAwTAQcZAA

You will notice I prefer consecrations vs. the standard meditations. Used properly they can prevent a lot of damage from occurring in the first place both for you and your teammates. Drawback of course is they are stationary. YMMV.

Depending on the makeup of the opposing team I may trade staff for scepter/shield, Zeal VIII for IX and Virtues VIII for XI.

Aza.2105:

I don’t think Anet will be making changes to our traits any time soon. My guess is that they feel and see what we have now is completely viable, its just the general perception of the player that causes them to feel what we currently have isn’t viable.

This was warriors a few months ago. Anet has plenty of ways to test and math out things internally, so they might think we’re in a good spot mathematically, and are just waiting for the community to realize what it’s always had. That doesn’t mean I want the class to stagnate, but it’s easily a reason it feels stagnate.

For my condition guardian I’ve been using the below signet build (6,6,2,0,0) which I’ve been finding very effective. Weapons of choice are sw/t & sc/f.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf7dl0ApSoFCxRI8DNR9QZ9F8BTQ1HQAcoXNDA-TJRHwAp3fIwJBAZZAAPBAA

I feel many people when thinking about condition build only think about the damaging conditions. And this is were the Guardian lacks as without sigils & runes Guardian’s only have burning. The latest runes & sigils change has helped greatly in this.

As can been seen I’ve taken the on weapon swap doom & geomancy. I find I have more control over condition application with the on swaps and with bleed, burn & poison with no might stack your doing 1485 condi dmg per tick.

But damage condition are not only what your bringing. You have blinds, immobilise, vulnerable & weakness. The sweat deal with this build is any blind or immobilise will also apply vulnerable. This give you 3 almost on demand covering conditions (blind, immob & vul I would not use the weakness) for your damaging conditions.

Why signets, because with this build you get benefits for both the passive & the active;
(Comments about signets are related to the above build)

• Signet of Wrath (24sec cooldown) – passive 180 extra condi dmg with the 3 condition is any extra 105 dmg per tick but this is and extra bonus, you take it for the active. Immobilise 4sec & 5 stacks of vul for 11sec.
• Bane Signet (32sec cooldown) – passive 180 extra power talks for itself but again the active almost a AA attack in dmg plus 2 sec knockdown. Yes the 3/4 cast time can be frustrating which can limit which skills can be interrupted but channeled, stomps, ress & most heals (around 1sec cast) can be interrupted. It takes practice witht he timing.
• Signet of Judgment (24sec cooldown) – This one is mainly for the passive which reduces dmg by 10%. Now this is calculated after the armour reduction. I have checked numbers but with only 2219 armour this makes it feel like you have at least 2600 if not a little more. The active is just the icing on the cake with a 24sec stun break causing weakness and granting retal.

Condition control is by active play with offensive pressure, positioning, blinds, blocks with SoR & purity (remove 2 every 10sec) to catch any that get through.

I find I stick to 6,6,?,?,? with the 2 point able to be place where you like. Even the choice of trait’s in zeal and radiance can be adjusted. Dropping 2 into Virtues taking trait VI and purging flames losing SoW or Bane gives more condi removal and and aoe burn almost the size of a capture point for 6 sec. Likewise 2 in Honor with trait II taking SYG gives keeping RoJ give 1 soucre of stability & retal plus 2 stun breaks.

But on a whole I’ve found the above build works for my playstyle. Lastly of note is the 25% movement speed increase. This allows for easier kiting & sticking to targets. Either Travellers or Speed work.

Edit: added comment about runes

Bezagron.7352:

For my condition guardian I’ve been using the below signet build (6,6,2,0,0) which I’ve been finding very effective. Weapons of choice are sw/t & sc/f.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf7dl0ApSoFCxRI8DNR9QZ9F8BTQ1HQAcoXNDA-TJRHwAp3fIwJBAZZAAPBAA

I feel many people when thinking about condition build only think about the damaging conditions. And this is were the Guardian lacks as without sigils & runes Guardian’s only have burning. The latest runes & sigils change has helped greatly in this.

As can been seen I’ve taken the on weapon swap doom & geomancy. I find I have more control over condition application with the on swaps and with bleed, burn & poison with no might stack your doing 1485 condi dmg per tick.

But damage condition are not only what your bringing. You have blinds, immobilise, vulnerable & weakness. The sweat deal with this build is any blind or immobilise will also apply vulnerable. This give you 3 almost on demand covering conditions (blind, immob & vul I would not use the weakness) for your damaging conditions.

Why signets, because with this build you get benefits for both the passive & the active;
(Comments about signets are related to the above build)

• Signet of Wrath (24sec cooldown) – passive 180 extra condi dmg with the 3 condition is any extra 105 dmg per tick but this is and extra bonus, you take it for the active. Immobilise 4sec & 5 stacks of vul for 11sec.
• Bane Signet (32sec cooldown) – passive 180 extra power talks for itself but again the active almost a AA attack in dmg plus 2 sec knockdown. Yes the 3/4 cast time can be frustrating which can limit which skills can be interrupted but channeled, stomps, ress & most heals (around 1sec cast) can be interrupted. It takes practice witht he timing.
• Signet of Judgment (24sec cooldown) – This one is mainly for the passive which reduces dmg by 10%. Now this is calculated after the armour reduction. I have checked numbers but with only 2219 armour this makes it feel like you have at least 2600 if not a little more. The active is just the icing on the cake with a 24sec stun break causing weakness and granting retal.

Condition control is by active play with offensive pressure, positioning, blinds, blocks with SoR & purity (remove 2 every 10sec) to catch any that get through.

I find I stick to 6,6,?,?,? with the 2 point able to be place where you like. Even the choice of trait’s in zeal and radiance can be adjusted. Dropping 2 into Virtues taking trait VI and purging flames losing SoW or Bane gives more condi removal and and aoe burn almost the size of a capture point for 6 sec. Likewise 2 in Honor with trait II taking SYG gives keeping RoJ give 1 soucre of stability & retal plus 2 stun breaks.

But on a whole I’ve found the above build works for my playstyle. Lastly of note is the 25% movement speed increase. This allows for easier kiting & sticking to targets. Either Travellers or Speed work.

Edit: added comment about runes

Alright let’s do this not every build is perfect but ever since I stop using Supreme Justice burn on block become my main source of burn even tough I don’t use every possible block. I agree with doom sigil but geomency or hydromancy is not guaranteed to hit.
The problem is all the necessary traits are scattered. Permeating Wrath,Supreme Justie,Fiery Wrath,Searing Flames,Defender’s Flame,Might of the Protector,Amplified Wrath. I can’t do a proper condition build on guardian without missing an advantage. I have been pvping with differents builds and even tough it worked out there was always a struggling part wheter it was Meditation,Signets,Consecrations or my most recent one boon gaining.

Sagat.3285:

Alright let’s do this not every build is perfect but ever since I stop using Supreme Justice burn on block become my main source of burn even tough I don’t use every possible block. I agree with doom sigil but geomency or hydromancy is not guaranteed to hit.
The problem is all the necessary traits are scattered. Permeating Wrath,Supreme Justie,Fiery Wrath,Searing Flames,Defender’s Flame,Might of the Protector,Amplified Wrath. I can’t do a proper condition build on guardian without missing an advantage. I have been pvping with differents builds and even tough it worked out there was always a struggling part wheter it was Meditation,Signets,Consecrations or my most recent one boon gaining.

I can’t say I agree, the way I view Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice now is that they exist to turn any weapon guardian wields into a condi weapon. If you use torch as a off hand there really is no need for those two traits.

Aza.2105:

Sagat.3285:

Alright let’s do this not every build is perfect but ever since I stop using Supreme Justice burn on block become my main source of burn even tough I don’t use every possible block. I agree with doom sigil but geomency or hydromancy is not guaranteed to hit.
The problem is all the necessary traits are scattered. Permeating Wrath,Supreme Justie,Fiery Wrath,Searing Flames,Defender’s Flame,Might of the Protector,Amplified Wrath. I can’t do a proper condition build on guardian without missing an advantage. I have been pvping with differents builds and even tough it worked out there was always a struggling part wheter it was Meditation,Signets,Consecrations or my most recent one boon gaining.

I can’t say I agree, the way I view Permeating Wrath and Supreme Justice now is that they exist to turn any weapon guardian wields into a condi weapon. If you use torch as a off hand there really is no need for those two traits.

I can definitely see my self using both in pve but who came up with Permeating Wrath more importantly that it burns around you and not around the target? It’s not like we have a real ranged weapon because Tome of Wrath is not reliable.
Torch has it’s lows using Scepter/Focus and GS have been my best weapon set for condition so far unless we do actually get a bow with decent skills.
Overall semi or fully reliable damage if we don’t take in consideration burn duration are conditions from sigil,might from block and swap or full radiance but it is even close to other condition builds? My condition thief can kill faster and maintain higher health in the end.
We need improvements.

Sagat.3285:

I can definitely see my self using both in pve but who came up with Permeating Wrath more importantly that it burns around you and not around the target? It’s not like we have a real ranged weapon because Tome of Wrath is not reliable.
Torch has it’s lows using Scepter/Focus and GS have been my best weapon set for condition so far unless we do actually get a bow with decent skills.
Overall semi or fully reliable damage if we don’t take in consideration burn duration are conditions from sigil,might from block and swap or full radiance but it is even close to other condition builds? My condition thief can kill faster and maintain higher health in the end.
We need improvements.

I personally feel condi guardian is in a good spot at this time, I expect in the future that they will slowly improve even more. Is condi guard close to other condi builds? I’d say they are different. The main difference is their main sources of damage. Unlike other classes, guardians innate damage is coming from: burning, retaliation and binding blade. This is rather unique, especially retaliation acting as a defensive condition.

Overall I’d say Anet did a good job keeping their word on making the possibility of a condi guard realistic.

With respect to the torch, you have to consider its advantages and disadvantages vs focus. Focus is a more defensive self centered off hand, Torch is offensive and supportive. I’d say its better for group because of cleansing flame, there aren’t a lot of players who mention this skill up when it comes to ally support. Its quite good, I think it removes 1 condition per pulse (it pulses 9 times). That’s pretty good for a skill on such a low cd.

This past week I’ve been forcing myself to run tome of wrath, really I’ve never been a fan of the skill but I think its alright. The biggest issue imo is that it does not boost condition damage yet its pretty much a condition elite. If it did boost condi damage like it does power and precision then it would be THE elite for condi guards. I also think the cooldown is a bit too long and the duration too short. The cooldown should be changed to 120secs.

Maybe they will change it in the future we’ll see.

The only place where I say we need improvement regarding condition traits is in WvW team fights, as we do not have enough access to decent hitting AoE conditions to justify using conditions.

In spvp we are fine though, perm wrath doesn’t really have a place in spvp simply because it is very rare to be going up against more than 2-3 people at a time, and even if it is a full 5v5 team fight you still have a good chunk of AoE damage from GS and mass burning through either JI or Purging flames and torch #4 to keep people burning that are on point.

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Bash.7291:

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Depends.

Do you consider the 33% retaliation dmg reduction significant? Most guardian players will not go full zeal in a power build. So with a amulet with power as the main stat, retaliation does 238 dmg per hit.

With radiant retaliation and 1500 condition dmg it does 289 damage per hit. It doesn’t seem like a lot but when consider fast hitting skills then the difference adds up. So in just two attacks you end up hitting for 100 more dmg and that continues to scale upward the more the target hits you.

With radiant retaliation it increases retaliation damage by around 21%. So the ret pvp nerf is signicantly decreased. For a power user they will feel the 33% nerf, for a condition user with the radiant ret its around 11-12% nerf. Is that a big difference to you? I guess it depends how one looks at it.

Amplified Wrath fits very well in Zeal, though "Kindled Zeal needs to be changed since it’s obsolete. Burn specs with carrion gear and meditations work very well with each other. Just playing the build I’ve been running in Spvp I’d say we don’t need autos with bleeding like warrior, we’d be OP if we did.

In short a breakdown of what should be done. Kindled Zeal should either be brought down to Master tier or changed entirely to a different sort of grandmaster worthy effect. Radiant Retaliation needs a buff so in Spvp and WvW it isn’t so weak, 300-400 damage range should do it some justice(Currently you’re just better with power scaling in any game mode)

Lucentfir.7430:

Amplified Wrath fits very well in Zeal, though "Kindled Zeal needs to be changed since it’s obsolete. Burn specs with carrion gear and meditations work very well with each other. Just playing the build I’ve been running in Spvp I’d say we don’t need autos with bleeding like warrior, we’d be OP if we did.

In short a breakdown of what should be done. Kindled Zeal should either be brought down to Master tier or changed entirely to a different sort of grandmaster worthy effect. Radiant Retaliation needs a buff so in Spvp and WvW it isn’t so weak, 300-400 damage range should do it some justice(Currently you’re just better with power scaling in any game mode)

Kindled Zeal definitely no longer fits. Technically it could if you consider how guardian can gain access to other conditions through sigils but…..its still not worth it compared to amplified wrath.

Maybe kindled zeal could increase condition durations or decrease incoming condition duration.

Since Purging flames is great against condi’s and burns them I use this with JI, it’s nice closing a gap and burning too. I use Spirit Sword because it will burn every hit for 1040 too with this build.

It’s a hard counter against majority of what I 1v1’d, even bunker players. Even if I get downed they will drop too because they will have plenty (20+ seconds) of burning still left on them, after they burned any condi cleanse I just reapply extremely easy with my utilities. Than my sword keep hitting them and burning every hit for 1040 still…So I still get the rally. This build is based soley on uptime and power of burn and easy reapplication of it within 2-3 seconds. But tbh, the attack power is OP too.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRAsf8dlsApcoNDxKI8DNR8QZdH8CZQ1BQC8oXNDA-TJhAwAJeBAw2fYcZAAHEAA

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Depends.

Do you consider the 33% retaliation dmg reduction significant? Most guardian players will not go full zeal in a power build. So with a amulet with power as the main stat, retaliation does 238 dmg per hit.

With radiant retaliation and 1500 condition dmg it does 289 damage per hit. It doesn’t seem like a lot but when consider fast hitting skills then the difference adds up. So in just two attacks you end up hitting for 100 more dmg and that continues to scale upward the more the target hits you.

With radiant retaliation it increases retaliation damage by around 21%. So the ret pvp nerf is signicantly decreased. For a power user they will feel the 33% nerf, for a condition user with the radiant ret its around 11-12% nerf. Is that a big difference to you? I guess it depends how one looks at it.

If you are going to compare a power build to a condi build for this, you also need to include the amount of retaliation uptime, which power builds are going to have much more of due to being able to trait into virtues for the extra sources/duration.

In all honesty, as far as i can tell with what you have posted (6/6/2/0/0) for what your spec is, you actually have very little retaliation uptime. I am going based off the assumption that you only have signet of judgement, leap finisher with GS, and possibly Stand your ground as your only sources. Meanwhile any power build that traits 3 into virtues will have much better up time, and thus end up dealing more damage.

Littlefeather.8623:

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Might on Block minor trait in Valor makes it so that you can put points into survivability and not lose out on damage. And in some cases you would surpass the damage that a pure Radiance specced condi guard would do.

In essence, you can go radiance but Valor is better.

You will not be able to kill fast enough, Mediation is good but if you’re trying to go condi damage why limit your condi damage by not going in Radiance ? Sure you can sustain longer but you wont do good burn damage, just make for longer fights.

Nah, that’s where you’re mistaken. I’d kill you just as fast as you’d kill me. I can match your damage, beat your damage (overtime of course) and survive at the same time.

And I only need Merciful Intervention to do that, I don’t need to go full medi.

The difference in damage between going Valor vs Radiance is so small, it just makes much more sense to go Valor because it saves you in SO MANY MORE situations.

For instance, you’d have a harder time fighting a Necro in Radiance than you would in Valor.

Then again, this is just me being a know it all. Play what you like. I would advocate that more than anything else.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Depends.

Do you consider the 33% retaliation dmg reduction significant? Most guardian players will not go full zeal in a power build. So with a amulet with power as the main stat, retaliation does 238 dmg per hit.

With radiant retaliation and 1500 condition dmg it does 289 damage per hit. It doesn’t seem like a lot but when consider fast hitting skills then the difference adds up. So in just two attacks you end up hitting for 100 more dmg and that continues to scale upward the more the target hits you.

With radiant retaliation it increases retaliation damage by around 21%. So the ret pvp nerf is signicantly decreased. For a power user they will feel the 33% nerf, for a condition user with the radiant ret its around 11-12% nerf. Is that a big difference to you? I guess it depends how one looks at it.

If you are going to compare a power build to a condi build for this, you also need to include the amount of retaliation uptime, which power builds are going to have much more of due to being able to trait into virtues for the extra sources/duration.

In all honesty, as far as i can tell with what you have posted (6/6/2/0/0) for what your spec is, you actually have very little retaliation uptime. I am going based off the assumption that you only have signet of judgement, leap finisher with GS, and possibly Stand your ground as your only sources. Meanwhile any power build that traits 3 into virtues will have much better up time, and thus end up dealing more damage.

What is stopping one from going 6 into radiance and 3 into virtues?

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Aza.2105:

Charak.9761:

you’re actually suppose to run medi with a burning build atm

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQRArf8dlsApZoVDxcI8DNR8QYd37WVBXP/nD-TJRGwAAOJAj2fIxTAgZZAA

amplified wrath is in the wrong trait line irregardless, zeal buffs symbols thru minor so you end up wasting those.

No you don’t. I don’t run meditations with my burning build. And its fine. 6/6/2 for me.

^

Exactly, most people are not confident enough to try glass, but with guardian and the right weapon setup it’s not all that glass to be honest.

Might on Block minor trait in Valor makes it so that you can put points into survivability and not lose out on damage. And in some cases you would surpass the damage that a pure Radiance specced condi guard would do.

In essence, you can go radiance but Valor is better.

You will not be able to kill fast enough, Mediation is good but if you’re trying to go condi damage why limit your condi damage by not going in Radiance ? Sure you can sustain longer but you wont do good burn damage, just make for longer fights.

Nah, that’s where you’re mistaken. I’d kill you just as fast as you’d kill me. I can match your damage, beat your damage (overtime of course) and survive at the same time.

And I only need Merciful Intervention to do that, I don’t need to go full medi.

The difference in damage between going Valor vs Radiance is so small, it just makes much more sense to go Valor because it saves you in SO MANY MORE situations.

For instance, you’d have a harder time fighting a Necro in Radiance than you would in Valor.

Then again, this is just me being a know it all. Play what you like. I would advocate that more than anything else.

Merciful Intervention ? I’ve never used that, but wouldn’t there have to be party members near you to use that ? If you’re talking about group fights it’s all spam, I’m talking about 1v1 though, and Merciful Intervention would’t save you in that scenario. So no, you would go down 1v1.

Littlefeather.8623:

Merciful Intervention ? I’ve never used that, but wouldn’t there have to be party members near you to use that ? If you’re talking about group fights it’s all spam, I’m talking about 1v1 though, and Merciful Intervention would’t save you in that scenario. So no, you would go down 1v1.

Merciful Intervention Works in 1v1. It works even better in team fights (heals for every ally in the PBAoE). It won’t move me away from you but it’s like me having a second shelter when combined with Monk’s Focus.

I’ve been playing condi guard since before the April update mate. So I know what I’m talking about.

Dirame.8521:

Littlefeather.8623:

Merciful Intervention ? I’ve never used that, but wouldn’t there have to be party members near you to use that ? If you’re talking about group fights it’s all spam, I’m talking about 1v1 though, and Merciful Intervention would’t save you in that scenario. So no, you would go down 1v1.

Merciful Intervention Works in 1v1. It works even better in team fights (heals for every ally in the PBAoE). It won’t move me away from you but it’s like me having a second shelter when combined with Monk’s Focus.

I’ve been playing condi guard since before the April update mate. So I know what I’m talking about.

So you played a kitten condi guard before the major update? Prior to that update I played meditation PVT with fighter runes, I didn’t loose 1v1 with that one either. But for fun I wanted to try condi guard and made my own build which maximized burn and power with blocks galore to make them kill their self. Prior to the update burn guard was kind of taboo even to me, now It kills fast though no lie.

Since most are giving opinions I’ll try this in the meantime
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAR7dl0ApSoNCxZI8DNx9Ql5VEiWuBfQ1DQAMoA-TJRHAB3eRAqY/BkKDAwTAAA
I can’t do without some kind of regen on me but this should be decent.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAS7dlsApcoVDxZI8DNR8QZVHUdAkAP61zwPkDA-TpgMgAA7PIXGAA

drop the carrion, its not good for a guard.

celestial is the key for any hybrid build. i burn for 670, much lower yes. but my crit dmg is 200% and 30% crit chance. also my armor is 2.8k so im super tanky.
you really dont need any more burn uptime then this. let me list ur burns:

burn every 5th hit (virtue of justice)
virtue of justice active 2x
burn on block( 5x aegis, focus 5, shelter)
judge’s intervention
purging flames
shimmering defense

if you didnt kill ur enemy by now, its a bunker:D

i have 3200 tourneys on my guard and 80% of it is dps. most of the builds listed up here arent viable for tournaments, maby just for fun in hotjoins. sustain is key in winning with a (semi) burn build

SilkySmooth.1574:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAS7dlsApcoVDxZI8DNR8QZVHUdAkAP61zwPkDA-TpgMgAA7PIXGAA

drop the carrion, its not good for a guard.

celestial is the key for any hybrid build. i burn for 670, much lower yes. but my crit dmg is 200% and 30% crit chance. also my armor is 2.8k so im super tanky.
you really dont need any more burn uptime then this. let me list ur burns:

burn every 5th hit (virtue of justice)
virtue of justice active 2x
burn on block( 5x aegis, focus 5, shelter)
judge’s intervention
purging flames
shimmering defense

if you didnt kill ur enemy by now, its a bunker:D

i have 3200 tourneys on my guard and 80% of it is dps. most of the builds listed up here arent viable for tournaments, maby just for fun in hotjoins. sustain is key in winning with a (semi) burn build

That the issue tough this post isn’t about semi burn…
I used Carrion on my previous condition builds it worked given the fact that Rabit doesn’t give me enough vitality on guardian unless I use Force of Will.
Sure some builds counter conditions but those conditions builds should at least be reliable in general. I’m open to suggestions since I tried many builds but like I said they were all missing something.

Signets are terrible I will forget ever using them.

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Depends.

Do you consider the 33% retaliation dmg reduction significant? Most guardian players will not go full zeal in a power build. So with a amulet with power as the main stat, retaliation does 238 dmg per hit.

With radiant retaliation and 1500 condition dmg it does 289 damage per hit. It doesn’t seem like a lot but when consider fast hitting skills then the difference adds up. So in just two attacks you end up hitting for 100 more dmg and that continues to scale upward the more the target hits you.

With radiant retaliation it increases retaliation damage by around 21%. So the ret pvp nerf is signicantly decreased. For a power user they will feel the 33% nerf, for a condition user with the radiant ret its around 11-12% nerf. Is that a big difference to you? I guess it depends how one looks at it.

If you are going to compare a power build to a condi build for this, you also need to include the amount of retaliation uptime, which power builds are going to have much more of due to being able to trait into virtues for the extra sources/duration.

In all honesty, as far as i can tell with what you have posted (6/6/2/0/0) for what your spec is, you actually have very little retaliation uptime. I am going based off the assumption that you only have signet of judgement, leap finisher with GS, and possibly Stand your ground as your only sources. Meanwhile any power build that traits 3 into virtues will have much better up time, and thus end up dealing more damage.

What is stopping one from going 6 into radiance and 3 into virtues?

I was going off of your 6/6/2/0/0 that you listed yourself. There is nothing to stop that, except you are gimping your burning damage by doing so.

SilkySmooth.1574:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQNAS7dlsApcoVDxZI8DNR8QZVHUdAkAP61zwPkDA-TpgMgAA7PIXGAA

drop the carrion, its not good for a guard.

celestial is the key for any hybrid build. i burn for 670, much lower yes. but my crit dmg is 200% and 30% crit chance. also my armor is 2.8k so im super tanky.
you really dont need any more burn uptime then this. let me list ur burns:

burn every 5th hit (virtue of justice)
virtue of justice active 2x
burn on block( 5x aegis, focus 5, shelter)
judge’s intervention
purging flames
shimmering defense

if you didnt kill ur enemy by now, its a bunker:D

i have 3200 tourneys on my guard and 80% of it is dps. most of the builds listed up here arent viable for tournaments, maby just for fun in hotjoins. sustain is key in winning with a (semi) burn build

/sigh… No GS, shimmering defense, low power, low condition damage… yeah…. gonna pass on that.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

As far as the off topic build discussions, I have to really disagree with the thought that radiance is the way to go over valor. Considering that radiant retaliation is not that much of an improvement on damage over regular power based retaliation, and that most, if not all builds already use carrion amulet, the damage difference is not worth the massive trade off in survivability that you get from valor.

Depends.

Do you consider the 33% retaliation dmg reduction significant? Most guardian players will not go full zeal in a power build. So with a amulet with power as the main stat, retaliation does 238 dmg per hit.

With radiant retaliation and 1500 condition dmg it does 289 damage per hit. It doesn’t seem like a lot but when consider fast hitting skills then the difference adds up. So in just two attacks you end up hitting for 100 more dmg and that continues to scale upward the more the target hits you.

With radiant retaliation it increases retaliation damage by around 21%. So the ret pvp nerf is signicantly decreased. For a power user they will feel the 33% nerf, for a condition user with the radiant ret its around 11-12% nerf. Is that a big difference to you? I guess it depends how one looks at it.

If you are going to compare a power build to a condi build for this, you also need to include the amount of retaliation uptime, which power builds are going to have much more of due to being able to trait into virtues for the extra sources/duration.

In all honesty, as far as i can tell with what you have posted (6/6/2/0/0) for what your spec is, you actually have very little retaliation uptime. I am going based off the assumption that you only have signet of judgement, leap finisher with GS, and possibly Stand your ground as your only sources. Meanwhile any power build that traits 3 into virtues will have much better up time, and thus end up dealing more damage.

What is stopping one from going 6 into radiance and 3 into virtues?

I was going off of your 6/6/2/0/0 that you listed yourself. There is nothing to stop that, except you are gimping your burning damage by doing so.

If possible share this build because I cannot make my way around it. It seems pointless.

Bash.7291:

I was going off of your 6/6/2/0/0 that you listed yourself. There is nothing to stop that, except you are gimping your burning damage by doing so.

Sure, everything has a trade off. It would have its strengths of course and weaknesses. In regards to retaliation access via 6/6/20/0, I personally found soj, stand your ground, symbol of wrath, zealot’s speed and leap more than enough.