Guild Wars 2

From the live streams i’m seeing other professions popping like 14-20K bursting near 1-3 sec how the heck will the guardian cope with those burst with a near 11K zerk and 15-17K heath
Are they forcing the guardian to go bunker or die (zerk) get someone to 25% and die in the end (ticking with near perma 20 stacks of bleed vulne poison confusion)
These changes will so backfire for the devs and the insta death for the guardian (pvp)

Will see. I wasn’t fan to the changes due the new trait system would diminish the build variety, but also seems pretty evident that the rearrange of the attribute points would be fuel for all kind of nightmares for the PvP meditation guardians (which is the only build I would use with this class, anyway).

I guess guardians will be in a “good spot”.

I don’t think it’s the end for guardian but yeah pandora’s box is going to open tomorrow.

Guardians won’t even be able to protect themselves lol. Just load condi cleanse and stun breaks in your kit and at least you’ll die on point.

Burning changes are not going to be nearly enough to save us from all of the nerfs. Symbolic Avenger got cut in half to +10% damage in symbols, which is absolutely laughable for a GM trait. Fiery Wrath got nerfed from both -3% damage and from reduced burning uptime due to intensity stacking, Amplified Wrath and Might of the Protector block procs got 1s ICDs, Amplified Wrath got nerfed to +15% burn damage, we lost +10% damage from Radiant Power, we lost +10% damage from Elusive Power, and we lost a +10% damage for sword from Powerful Blades.

On top of all that, virtue radius got cut in half, we lost the vitality from Honor leaving cleric amulet bunker guardians with 11k HP, Glacial Heart is now competing with Absolute Resolution, signets lost their condi removal (which makes them even more useless than they already were), shield skills are still bad, the shield trait is still even worse, AND Blind Exposure got combined with Binding Jeopardy to give a whole 3 seconds of vulnerability per blind.

Any hype I had back when the changes were first announced are since dead. Even with the burning changes, Engi is still better at stacking burning than Guardian is.

? pretty much stated all the nerfs Guardians have received that very few even noticed. This was a massive nerf to Guardian this upcoming patch.

The nerfs are unjustified, watching the streams on Twitch and Engineers dealing out significantly more burning then Guardians makes me cry.

Every profession shown is doing insane damage and as soon as they started showing Guardian everyone started laughing at how bad we were. Even the person playing on stream said out loud how terrible Guardians are now compared to the major revamps every other profession received.

It horrifies me how quiet the devs are being on these major nerfs, it’s even more horrifying how the guardian community is staying so silent. Do people even play this broken profession anymore?

Anytime i try and mention how bad Guardians have become i just get abused by other professions, apparently we still live in 2012 when Guardians were gods… sigh.

And what do we have to look forward to in HoT? Traps? Sigh…

This patch will kill Guardians and nobody seems to care.

I find it pretty ridiculous that they nerfed us this hard. I’m especially mad about the amplified wrath and might of the protector nerf…..WHAT THE HELL! I loved those traits and now they are ruined. A 1 second CD on it is a huge hit =\

ANET, if you are reading this fix this kitten before its too late.

Honestly if nothing is fixed and we keep getting slapped around by other classes and nerfed to hell it’ll tempt me to main something else.

There are so many concerns pre-patch but my biggest two atm are;

1) ICDs

2) and to quote Buran, “I wasn’t fan to the changes due the new trait system would diminish the build variety”

There are some many other areas I look at and just quetion why, when so many other classes are getting huge buffs and we are getting nerfed.

The nerfs are one thing, but I mirror a lot of concerns that the “guardian is in the right place” mentality has lead the class to stagnate in terms of power progress.

They may care about the class, but they surely don’t play it. Some of the most disheartening things have been seeing the livestreams, and watching the devs flat out forget the names, the mechanics, and the abilities that are central and core to the Guardian class.

Now, more than ever, the guardian community needs to be vocal and cooperative on the problems of the class. We should make sure to keep our builds, templates, and discussions in public channels so Guards can hopefully keep up in the meantime; and we need to press as vocally as possible for re-balancing if we get left in the dust.

Maybe someone needs to start a post on reddit that can gain a lot of attention ?

Seems like we were nerfed based on the DH reveal with the 6k burns from the non condi guard vs chieftan.

merchantchuck.4875:

Maybe someone needs to start a post on reddit that can gain a lot of attention ?

Tried that, failed.
Every other profession is blind to the Guardians problems, and if you try and mention them you get attacked viciously.
Everyone believes we still live in 2012 when we were great.

This reminds me of Paladins in classic WoW.

Well we’ll become condition fodder now that spammable conditions an reach 5k per tick it only takes 2 ticks to kill us now.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Well we’ll become condition fodder now that spammable conditions an reach 5k per tick it only takes 2 ticks to kill us now.

oh lord….ANET what have you doneeeeeeeee!

Vizardlorde.8243:

Seems like we were nerfed based on the DH reveal with the 6k burns from the non condi guard vs chieftan.

or VS afk players!!

sorry could not resist! >:}

I really fear what will outcome from this patch, in terms of values.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Well we’ll become condition fodder now that spammable conditions an reach 5k per tick it only takes 2 ticks to kill us now.

But wait!

There is still shout guard! The one and only.

BRO!

How are we going to be Guardians if we cant even Guard ourselves?! : O : O

In fairness i will say that Jon mentioned in chat today that Engineers will be getting nerfed.

Karl said that the reason this patch is going live now is so the devs can continue to balance the professions.

So either every single other profession will be nerfed in line with Guardian or Guardians will be buffed to be in line with every single other profession…. hopefully.

Arnath.2319:

In fairness i will say that Jon mentioned in chat today that Engineers will be getting nerfed.

Karl said that the reason this patch is going live now is so the devs can continue to balance the professions.

So either every single other profession will be nerfed in line with Guardian or Guardians will be buffed to be in line with every single other profession…. hopefully.

Lets hope so, but well face an awful couple of weeks- month before things return to normal.

don’t forget we are in a good spot (before) patch. xD

Arnath.2319:

In fairness i will say that Jon mentioned in chat today that Engineers will be getting nerfed.

Karl said that the reason this patch is going live now is so the devs can continue to balance the professions.

So either every single other profession will be nerfed in line with Guardian or Guardians will be buffed to be in line with every single other profession…. hopefully.

Guardians will never be buffed, never ever never.

Like do they even ever come read guardian forums? Just look at the red responses on the other ones… Yeah one here 5 days ago in regards to shield, lol shield

Well, look at what we as an aggregate community have asked for. We wanted DPS, Conditions and a Bow.. Got all three, yay.
So, now we can be a Warrior that can’t Nike. A Condispammer with less effectiveness than others (Ranger, Engi). And coming soon, A wannabe power ranger…

All the while our core functionality, group buffer, has languished. We’ve asked to become a mess and Anet has granted our wish.

I guess when they give others better support they will buff us, maybe in 2017?

Ragnarox.9601:

I guess when they give others better support they will buff us, maybe in 2017?

Yea in the next expansion when we fight the underwater dragon.

Our New Elite Specialization will be called “Fisherman.” : ]

LetoII.3782:

Well, look at what we as an aggregate community have asked for. We wanted DPS, Conditions and a Bow.. Got all three, yay.
So, now we can be a Warrior that can’t Nike. A Condispammer with less effectiveness than others (Ranger, Engi). And coming soon, A wannabe power ranger…

All the while our core functionality, group buffer, has languished. We’ve asked to become a mess and Anet has granted our wish.

Speak for yourself; I didn’t ask for a bow or traps. I just want my class to not get consistently nerfed for little to no justifiable reason.

maybe play with the changes for awhile before crying so we can give the devs some feedback on things we don’t agree with like the silly MotP nerf

(sounds like to me dev got owned by dps guardian few too many times)

Black Box.9312:

LetoII.3782:

Well, look at what we as an aggregate community have asked for. We wanted DPS, Conditions and a Bow.. Got all three, yay.
So, now we can be a Warrior that can’t Nike. A Condispammer with less effectiveness than others (Ranger, Engi). And coming soon, A wannabe power ranger…

All the while our core functionality, group buffer, has languished. We’ve asked to become a mess and Anet has granted our wish.

Speak for yourself; I didn’t ask for a bow or traps. I just want my class to not get consistently nerfed for little to no justifiable reason.

Neither did I, but look back through this subforum’s history.
“Aggregate Community”

LetoII.3782:

Well, look at what we as an aggregate community have asked for. We wanted DPS, Conditions and a Bow.. Got all three, yay.
So, now we can be a Warrior that can’t Nike. A Condispammer with less effectiveness than others (Ranger, Engi). And coming soon, A wannabe power ranger…

All the while our core functionality, group buffer, has languished. We’ve asked to become a mess and Anet has granted our wish.

I wanted a supportive longbow personally, not a ranger wannabe bow. I’m sure others were hoping for the same. I agree with your other points though.

Arnath.2319:

So either every single other profession will be nerfed in line with Guardian or Guardians will be buffed to be in line with every single other profession…. hopefully.

Lol you just said Guardians and buff in the same sentence.

I knew this would happen. Hence I will give Anet and the Expansion a pass. I seriously can’t pay money for this sort of sub par development.

anking.6245:

They may care about the class, but they surely don’t play it. Some of the most disheartening things have been seeing the livestreams, and watching the devs flat out forget the names, the mechanics, and the abilities that are central and core to the Guardian class.

+1 . Karl seemed laughably ignorant of the Guardian profession skills/traits during last Friday’s Ready Up. How sad for us Guardians.

I think Karl finds the spotlight excruciating, poor kid.
But yeah, it’s easy to assume nobody has played support guard in a while…

Also, for those who play WvW, it will be no more vitality bonus from killing guards :’(
We are so screwed…retiring my Guard…Mesmer is my new Main…

Zerk amulet may not work for guard, but they’ve made the same thing and just moved it over to another amulet. I saw the mes and thief changes and while they seem a smidge daunting (like you really have to be on your best game vs a decent player of these classes) I’m not really fazed. That being said, I very well may have my kitten handed to me post patch, but then again I might not. Start crying bloody murder after you actually try the thing. This is like the DH QQ all over again.

Guardian is getting such an insane buff that it blows my mind that you’re complaining and thinking that it is going to be a dead class. If you look a little bit at the traits, you will see what you can even grab that 300 vitality trait now and gain heal on dodge and some other very nice things.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-B;4NFF30E3BG-90;9;4NPn;0248258247;46Nl0IRk06TsW6TsWn-FQ3-JDrIJMLKbK6LbL6MbM6230C-2s;5F2Coc2CocYDucYDuF2-oF2Co;9;9;9;34-6c0-Pc0w

Maybe check that build and read through the traits before jumping to the conclusion that it is taking a nurf, it is getting buffed if you know how to build a character.

The armor is all the same as I currently run roaming in WvW, I used to run 5/2/6/0/1, but now that they changed the traits, I can now run the valor line instead since the 2nd line isn’t viable except for the one thing and the last line isn’t viable except its one thing. Essentially now its like running 6/0/6/6/0.. That is a buff.

SlayerSixx.5763:

Zerk amulet may not work for guard, but they’ve made the same thing and just moved it over to another amulet. I saw the mes and thief changes and while they seem a smidge daunting (like you really have to be on your best game vs a decent player of these classes) I’m not really fazed. That being said, I very well may have my kitten handed to me post patch, but then again I might not. Start crying bloody murder after you actually try the thing. This is like the DH QQ all over again.

Personally I think will be fine in pvp if they fix the ridiculuos condition damage some classes have (engi >.>). PVE on the other hand I feel like we are being fixed w/o being broken. SA became really weak for a GM trait because it has to meet too many conditions to work w/o Honor Traited Hammer AA. GS has a 25% uptime on it and mace has ~50% uptime combined it would be something like 65%-75% uptime that requres your targets not to move out of the symbol so its a less reliable FW on a GM slot. Meanwhile warriors are getting a 20% multiplier close to 100% of the time.

the answer is so simple to all the nerfs we got,all retire the guard and all guards play for example Engi,once the servers are overpopulated by engis they will nerf it and we move to the next class and so on till we get it to the guard lvl in nerfs,after we can take out our guards again :P

rian.9708:

the answer is so simple to all the nerfs we got,all retire the guard and all guards play for example Engi,once the servers are overpopulated by engis they will nerf it and we move to the next class and so on till we get it to the guard lvl in nerfs,after we can take out our guards again :P

the problem with that is that most of us already have most if not all classes at 80

Spartacus.3192:

anking.6245:

They may care about the class, but they surely don’t play it. Some of the most disheartening things have been seeing the livestreams, and watching the devs flat out forget the names, the mechanics, and the abilities that are central and core to the Guardian class.

+1 . Karl seemed laughably ignorant of the Guardian profession skills/traits during last Friday’s Ready Up. How sad for us Guardians.

I think thats normal, since they dont play guardians and if they play that classe for sure is a medi hammer with gs, they dont know how guard strugle to figh some classes outside that meditation box.

They didnt buffed shield skills (to make them trully viable in combat) wich is needed and sanctuary could use some love to, that 120 seconds that makes u stand and be a target to get nuked….

At the end it feels they didnt balanced well the class becouse DH its new and they want more players playign has DH (ugly meta range here to stay?).

You’re all having L2P problems.

Josh XT.6053:

You’re all having L2P problems.

its true that guardian looks that is getting buffed in some areas, but IMO the problem are the ones that always lacked and didnt get the righ treatment with this patch.
Mace overall was a nice improvement, but just becouse some use it with focus….

Meditation only most viable…. and now DH and probably dh/med hybrids?
Well guardian isnt only that.

Josh XT.6053:

Guardian is getting such an insane buff that it blows my mind that you’re complaining and thinking that it is going to be a dead class. If you look a little bit at the traits, you will see what you can even grab that 300 vitality trait now and gain heal on dodge and some other very nice things.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-B;4NFF30E3BG-90;9;4NPn;0248258247;46Nl0IRk06TsW6TsWn-FQ3-JDrIJMLKbK6LbL6MbM6230C-2s;5F2Coc2CocYDucYDuF2-oF2Co;9;9;9;34-6c0-Pc0w

Maybe check that build and read through the traits before jumping to the conclusion that it is taking a nurf, it is getting buffed if you know how to build a character.

The armor is all the same as I currently run roaming in WvW, I used to run 5/2/6/0/1, but now that they changed the traits, I can now run the valor line instead since the 2nd line isn’t viable except for the one thing and the last line isn’t viable except its one thing. Essentially now its like running 6/0/6/6/0.. That is a buff.

Good luck healing on dodge with either 11k HP or no condi clear when those 7k burn ticks kill you in 2 seconds. Selfless Daring is just about the only buff we’re getting, but that’s not going to be enough to keep bunker guard sustainable with the incoming condition changes.

Reading must be really hard for you. It has 15k HP, it also doesn’t have the +35% bonus stats from the armor. I highly doubt I’ll be seeing any 7k burn tickets in WvW or PVP. It also isn’t counting the WvW bonus HP you get as the week progresses lol..

If you’re talking about PVE, I’ll hear nothing of it because I care 0% about PVE.

As far as the Mace goes – it has never been a very good guardian weapon. Scepter is far superior.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Personally I think will be fine in pvp if they fix the ridiculuos condition damage some classes have (engi >.>). PVE on the other hand I feel like we are being fixed w/o being broken.

This has been my concern since the condition damage buffs were revealed. I think that offensively, Guardians came out pretty well this patch, despite the nerfs to some of our damage traits and MotP/AW. The Radiance Master traits are looking phenomenal, enough that I wish they switched one of them with one of the GM traits so we could take more than one. Renewed Justice is a nice trait that we’re picking up for free, but one that I consistently see underrated in PvP (for teamfighting, it can really help you snowball after you use Justice is Blind to help secure a kill). Our Fury access has improved, we get another 10% crit chance on burning enemies from Radiance, and one-handers get an additional 15% on top of that, totalling up to 45% free critical chance with Fury. Smiter’s Boon and Shattered Aegis will also hopefully be nice sources of free damage, and since most PvP Guardians didn’t spec into Zeal, I believe we’re looking at higher base power for most of this if we keep the same amulet. None of this even counts potentially higher burning damage, depending on how you spec.

The question is whether or not we’re even going to get a chance to use any of it. Most of our condition removal is still tuned for the metagame from launch, with Purging Flames being our only condition removal skill to receive any buffs since that time. The game’s pace has continually accelerated since launch, however, and I think that the cooldowns on our powerful cleanses are basically going to put a timer on us when we’re fighting condition builds in this new meta. I’m not even convinced that Pure of Voice/Trooper Rune bunkers will have the cleanse to sustain themselves, thanks to the moderate cooldowns on Shouts and the necessity of having to give up Force of Will for PoV. Maybe the next few weeks will prove otherwise, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Guardian meta just pushed further into burst damage. Kill before you’re killed, because Meditation healing probably can’t keep up like it used to.

I personally want to try a condition spec using the Torch, which looks like it’s our main way to participate in a condition meta. Wrath of Justice is incredible for burst builds, but I feel like Radiant Fire has flown under the radar up until now, and might have a lot of potential. However, if the best we can do is attrition damage when everyone else is bursting, it’s probably not going to work. The only way to tell will be to play the patch and see the numbers.

@Black Box, imo that is to soon to talk about, but that what i guess every one fears.

Condis will do less damage and will increase with vulnerability and with stack, out simbols will apply burn and vulnerability, but yeah for those classes that can apply lots of conditions and group play if that works will be nasty and players need to invest more in vit stats than play only full zerker, even that with vitatlity i fear its not eneught agaisnt some classes.

(i didnt payed much atention to changes besides gurdian and ranger, but lb had a pretty good buff and still apply 10staks of vulnerability each 8seconds withing 1500 range, also a +33% bleeding damage boost that will increase with vulnerability stacks)
yeah in theory a few conditions will hurt alot if they arent cleared fast or avoided.

Time is ticking and guardian death clock is near over(and we die) and someone seeing only the good parts seeing healing but healing doesn’t help you kill the opponent(only delays your slow death or instadeath) when you get in situation of dps support or even 1v1 situations
I don’t want to get in situation were guardian getting near ban in(organized) pvp because they cant survive or keep up with the other professions, becoming only daily profesion luck match win profession use
This is only pvp perspective
Pve (AKA dungeons) i’m pretty sure we’ll get kicked in the head with the revenant tablet, meaning that they will be chosen more often in the team because they will easily change from healing/support back to dps/support
WvW same situation
so… anyone feeling still optimistic about it ?

After the patch, I’ll gladly meet up with you in EOTM or PVP to 1v1 and prove you wrong.

Josh XT.6053:

Reading must be really hard for you. It has 15k HP, it also doesn’t have the +35% bonus stats from the armor. I highly doubt I’ll be seeing any 7k burn tickets in WvW or PVP. It also isn’t counting the WvW bonus HP you get as the week progresses lol..

If you’re talking about PVE, I’ll hear nothing of it because I care 0% about PVE.

As far as the Mace goes – it has never been a very good guardian weapon. Scepter is far superior.

You’re using a build that is trying too hard to be both offensive and defensive, and isn’t going to excel at either. Your only two damage modifiers are locked in with symbols, yet you have only one symbol with only 25% uptime. That symbol is on GS, which is a weapon that is far too easy to kite and avoid, making any sort of damage modifiers for it hardly worthwhile. Also, putting a sigil of bloodlust on both of your weapon sets is generally not a good idea as it does not improve your ability to gain stacks.

As for defensive power, the extra vitality will be nice, but you’re lacking sufficient condi cleanse for condition-heavy specs with range like engineer and mesmer. You also lack stability, which makes you an easy target for CC, with your only stun breaks being your opener and your big condi cleanse. You also have a falling damage trait equipped (lol).

You might THINK that it’s going to be a buff, but it’s certainly not. Will it still be effective? Maybe, but certainly less so.

Yesterday I said goodbye to my Guardian. Went PvP and killed some Rangers… Did a full CoE and CM run… You will be missed old friend

Like I said, L2P problem.

Allow me to teach you.

You start your fight with scepter/focus on, from here, you hit 4, 5, 2, 3 -> switch to GS, 4, 5, 2, 5. Oh hey what do ya know, they got immobilized in that symbol, then when the immobilize ended, they got pulled to keep them in to it while your shield of wrath blew up in their face and they ate at least half your whirling wrath. I’ve been doing this same combo for months and wrecking noobs like you that have L2P problems.