Guild Wars 2

Fair. And by fair I mean losing to one, or winning as one, I never feel cheated either way.

I’ve recently been playing my Guardian quite a bit again and my thoughts keep drifting to the idea that Guardians are really well designed and other classes should be more similar in regards to many things.

- The class is well telegraphed.
- Minion builds (spirit weapons) aren’t strong and can’t hid behind them.
- Burst isn’t instant and is easily avoidable.
- Burst damage isn’t ludicrously high.
- Trade off between good vitality or high toughness but not really both.
- Survivability is good but relies on dodges, blinds, blocks, and good utility usage aka active gameplay.
- Doesn’t have condition dumps or the ability to sustain a burst of conditions
- Elites don’t completely unbalance fights. I’m looking at you Supply Drop and Moa Morph
- Has CC but isn’t spammable and imo very easy to dodge.

I don’t know. Perhaps I’m bias because I’ve been playing so much recently, but Guardian really does feel like the least BS oriented class in the game.

On a side note, this is coming from someone who has played most classes significantly. Thief (1,752 matches), Elementalist (890), Mesmer (732), Warrior (731), and Engineer (310). To a lesser extent Necromancer (84) and Ranger (132) both which I don’t enjoy that much.

On a side note, the 3rd attack on hammer’s autoattack is painfully slow and probably should be buffed.

As an ele, the only times I have really felt cheated by a guardian are when a friendly one overwrites my fire fields and I can’t stack might. Other than that, there are so many bad guardians who will just sit there trying to autoattack me that I have respect for ones that can actually play.

That’s why I always liked Guard. It’s the most balanced class in the game. Yes, it could do with some slight buffs to some builds. However for the most part it’s fine.

Just throwing this out there. The amount of buffs and such that other classes have recieved have left guardian in a very underwhelming place. At launch they were “OP”. The beginning of this year they were “okay”… Now…. well now I think its about time they got some meaningful buffs…

jportell.2197:

Just throwing this out there. The amount of buffs and such that other classes have recieved have left guardian in a very underwhelming place. At launch they were “OP”. The beginning of this year they were “okay”… Now…. well now I think its about time they got some meaningful buffs…

I laughed. Guardians will never be underwhelming, Guardians rock for every occasion, and are IMO one of the best classes in the game in terms of overall design. Besides, you think you’re in a bad spot? Level a ranger to 80 and play every game mode for it. THEN talk to me about underwhelming.

RyuDragnier.9476:

jportell.2197:

Just throwing this out there. The amount of buffs and such that other classes have recieved have left guardian in a very underwhelming place. At launch they were “OP”. The beginning of this year they were “okay”… Now…. well now I think its about time they got some meaningful buffs…

I laughed. Guardians will never be underwhelming, Guardians rock for every occasion, and are IMO one of the best classes in the game in terms of overall design. Besides, you think you’re in a bad spot? Level a ranger to 80 and play every game mode for it. THEN talk to me about underwhelming.

They are not underwhelming… However all other classes are getting love in leaps and bounds… And anet is just kinda fiddling with guards… Nothing to major in any direction.

Just had to chime in on this.

My comments are solely in regards to sPvP too.

Personally, I cannot stand playing guardian right now. Other classes have so much more versatility and survivability to me. I’ve been playing Bunker Warrior a lot lately, the nice thing is I can bunker a point and actually kill people. I also think my Warrior can bunker a lot better than my Guard. Guard I just feel like I’m buying time for help to come, so my team has to divert resources from other points to come kill the dude that’s on me. Warrior, I’m like don’t ever come to my point unless I say so.

Also, Ranger is probably one of my favorite classes to play in sPvP right now, they bunker very well and have multiple sources of condi damage they can dish out. Not quite a tanky as my Warrior, but they kill people faster while still being pretty tanky. In WvW I freaking love power/crit LB now can get so many kills just picking people off, GS does great damage, and still have good escape ability.

Anyway, I tried my Guard again tonight, tried bunker, DPS, and a burn hybrid build. The class in its current state is very underwhelming.

jportell.2197:

RyuDragnier.9476:

jportell.2197:

Just throwing this out there. The amount of buffs and such that other classes have recieved have left guardian in a very underwhelming place. At launch they were “OP”. The beginning of this year they were “okay”… Now…. well now I think its about time they got some meaningful buffs…

I laughed. Guardians will never be underwhelming, Guardians rock for every occasion, and are IMO one of the best classes in the game in terms of overall design. Besides, you think you’re in a bad spot? Level a ranger to 80 and play every game mode for it. THEN talk to me about underwhelming.

They are not underwhelming… However all other classes are getting love in leaps and bounds… And anet is just kinda fiddling with guards… Nothing to major in any direction.

Presumably, that’s the sign of a balanced profession.

^^ that is true. which is why they’re not getting any major tweaks. however, depending on how long the Guardian class remains “stagnant”, while the other classes keep changing, for better for worse, the “meta” will change too. as far as i know and can expect, the big picture of the game will continue shifting, while the Guard stays largely the same.. if that goes on long enough, then the Guardians could easily fall out of place.

though, at the moment, i think they are more or less in a.. decent place. not amazing anywhere, but not terrible anywhere. sure still lot of fixing or improvements to be had, but not as kittenome other classes may be (whather too OP or UP in various aspects of the game). definitely has a strong foothold in all game modes. but perhaps not necessarily the best at anything in any given game mode? if that.. makes sense.

either way, regardless, i frigging love playing my Guardian.

I have to say ….. I totally agree

Played an Ele befor but found myself in the unhappy position that although I love the skills an Ele got, the lack of PVP-power (in my position as a non-profesional player) and the squishyness which will let you dying in many dungeons regardless of your efforts, I couldn’t warm up with him. If he gets some PVE buffs, I’ll try once more (sooo many keyboard buttons u needa know -__-) but for now I tried to give the next “magic” class a try which I never used: The Guardian (played Mesmer before Ele).

So Guardian feels … “right”. You can kill lots of stuff without being waaay to OP and you’ll die if you don’t pay attention but overall this is a class which really went some thoughts into. I love the “Shouts” and all this blue fire around me

i still think guardians biggest failing is their lack of hp, its too crippling to allow variations of specs to be used.
warriors have everything in 1 shape or another and allows for crazy variations of specs to be used at any given time, regen bunker, bunker, dps, dps regen hybrid, condi, condi regen, condi bunker, shouts, banner builds i could keep going easily… not only do warriors have options they are viable play stiles, none of which are crippled by a minuscule hp pool.
Guardians have maybe 3-4 viable specs if that, and 2 of them are bunker variations.
guardians are stuck with the hp crutch, as soon as we consider going anything but a bunker build we can potentially be insta gibbed because we have such low hp and toughness doesn’t help as much as anyone would think.
warrior can have better regen abilities, better group support, better dps, larger health, better mobility, better condi condi removal (spec dependant)
if guardian was balanced then we would be as strong as warrior, and we aren’t anywhere close….
but that why i love my guardian, i feel like an underdog in every situation and when i win (which isnt that often ) it feels much better than steamrolling someone with my warrior that is just so easy.

joffmonk.1285:

i still think guardians biggest failing is their lack of hp, its too crippling to allow variations of specs to be used.

To fix the alleged ‘lack of hp’ problem you assert about Guardians is to inherently re-invent or seriously cause the alteration or removal of many of those traits and skills that allow for Guardian sustainability and survival with that alleged ‘lack of hp’. Guardian has a number of variations it can play and play effectively if the player playing such knows each variant build weaknesses and strengths – what it can do and cannot do. I get the feeling many of you want your Guardian play to be simply keyboard faceroll like a warrior…

joffmonk.1285:

if guardian was balanced then we would be as strong as warrior, and we aren’t anywhere close….
but that why i love my guardian, i feel like an underdog in every situation and when i win (which isnt that often ) it feels much better than steamrolling someone with my warrior that is just so easy.

Ehm watcha’ talking about bro? Seriously? Underdog? Look at Engi, that’s what an underdog looks like.
Warriors are only massivly overpowered, that’s all. Guardian is doing excellent. Of course I wouldn’t mind some minor fixes and a second sharp look on already discussed problems but for all I have seen Guardians can pull of some nice work (compared to any other close-to-well-balanced-class).

I would not mind a buff on AH , drolls .

its not “alleged” it is a fact.
I honestly do think we need a hp buff, not much but we do need it.
I would say the same for elementalists as well.

we have to sacrifice too much of our utilities and heals when we have to compensate for the crutch of very low hp pool to begin with, imo.
now I’m not saying guardians should have everything, but i do think, with recent warrior changes our hp should be looked at.
I find it a bit backward that we are supposed to have the best healing/utility in the game (to compensate for having plop hp pool) yet are outdone by warriors at nearly every turn, damage, survivability, mobility, and group utility.

Swimfan.8014:

joffmonk.1285:

if guardian was balanced then we would be as strong as warrior, and we aren’t anywhere close….
but that why i love my guardian, i feel like an underdog in every situation and when i win (which isnt that often ) it feels much better than steamrolling someone with my warrior that is just so easy.

Ehm watcha’ talking about bro? Seriously? Underdog? Look at Engi, that’s what an underdog looks like.
Warriors are only massivly overpowered, that’s all. Guardian is doing excellent. Of course I wouldn’t mind some minor fixes and a second sharp look on already discussed problems but for all I have seen Guardians can pull of some nice work (compared to any other close-to-well-balanced-class).

that the point, warrior aren’t over powered, they are perfectly crafted because they have options to play different stiles which guardians lack.
i can beat some warriors in wvw even on my engy who i LOVE btw most run away, i consider it a win samee as most thieves who run don’t come back to get served again.

the reason i use warriors as an example is because they aren’t required to stack vitality gear in order to survive more than 5 seconds unlike a guardian. and yes i have seen full zerker guardians wtfpwning people in vids, i do wonder how many times those same guards when down to 1 or 2 heart seeker crits that weren’t included in the movies.

if guardians where to receive a hp boost, even only 2 or 3k then that would free us up in gear and traits to try out more dps or support roles, because currently i do think we are pigeonholed into 1 or 2 roles.

Swimfan.8014:

joffmonk.1285:

if guardian was balanced then we would be as strong as warrior, and we aren’t anywhere close….
but that why i love my guardian, i feel like an underdog in every situation and when i win (which isnt that often ) it feels much better than steamrolling someone with my warrior that is just so easy.

Ehm watcha’ talking about bro? Seriously? Underdog? Look at Engi, that’s what an underdog looks like.
Warriors are only massivly overpowered, that’s all. Guardian is doing excellent. Of course I wouldn’t mind some minor fixes and a second sharp look on already discussed problems but for all I have seen Guardians can pull of some nice work (compared to any other close-to-well-balanced-class).

Engies are perhaps one of the best classes right now with insane condi application and very strong power builds as well. Not to mention they can also do very good support work. They are in the same position as warriors right now. Great sustain, great power build, great condi build, great support as well. Guards are great support as long as no one is putting an strong focus fire on them. People forget that support isn’t just healing application, its also stuns and condi clear. Guardian has fallen behind since our condi clear is mediocre now and we have this “CC Problem”.

Nice points if this were a 1v1 arena fighting game. But it’s not. It’s a team-based game. Guardian is broken.

^^ Really? Can you tell us what is broken about Guardians when teamed? I’m not sure that’s an objective statement.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of the thread, it’s unfortunate that this has lead to a stagnation of the deficient aspects of the class that would make it more fun and engaging. Spirit weapons for instance.

Obtena.7952:

^^ Really? Can you tell us what is broken about Guardians when teamed? I’m not sure that’s an objective statement.

While I agree with the overall sentiment of the thread, it’s unfortunate that this has lead to a stagnation of the deficient aspects of the class that would make it more fun and engaging. Spirit weapons for instance.

Oh, I don’t know – how about:

Condition damage.
PvP meta requires movement, symbols.
Difficultly staying with enemy if they say it is “get up and go time…”

Pve we are great, so is everyone else.

There are things for sure broken. That’s not debated. But to claim the class itself is broken .. in a TEAM environment, where it shines? Please.

Obtena.7952:

There are things for sure broken. That’s not debated. But to claim the class itself is broken .. in a TEAM environment, where it shines? Please.

So then the Guardian is a supporting role but never the leading man or woman? Wow, talking about being pigeon holed if so

So much for their manifesto. Oh wait, that went out the door a few months after release when ascended gear was introduced. Oops.

I do say some of this in jest I hope you know Obtena. It isn’t directed at you has it is just a friendly conversation. The guardian is what it is and I play one. Just saying it isn’t always a great experience when things change yet we stay the same…

I feel the same, but some people post here with the ultimate in sensational nonsense (Devs do care about the class, Guardian is not a ‘broken’ class by any means, etc…). That never helps anything.

Guardian class is definitely not broken. i feel the Guardian more than has a place in PvE, dungeons, fractals, WvW and PvP. they will always be wanted one way or another. at the same time, many Guardians do feel left behind in terms of changes / updates / fixes / imrovements because a lot of things that we did well, other classes can supposedly do them better now (i wouldn’t know since i only play Guard).

and assuming that IS a widely accepted perception, i personally don’t feel that when i play the Guardian i am doing THAT much worse than others in all the listed above aspects (again, maybe cause i don’t play other classes? the whole, you don’t know what you don’t know thingymajiggy). maybe we are a jack of all trades, just not the VERY best at one given thing. which, tbh, i am more than fine with. for now.

of course, i care about the class, and i too would enjoy the Guardians getting more positive attention.. but i guess the devs just don’t see us to be in that bad a spot (OP or UP) yet.

So far in the early leveling stages…

Guardian feels incredibly underwhelming with such a low hp pool, and every weapon besides the scepter being terrible.

I think my Mesmer was a lot easier to level.

Justice.3608:

So far in the early leveling stages…

Guardian feels incredibly underwhelming with such a low hp pool, and every weapon besides the scepter being terrible.

I think my Mesmer was a lot easier to level.

Or most only use hammer/gs in WvW, while every weapon should have their presence.