Guardian is balanced = cop-out
I totally agree.
I totally feel that a guardian is kinda useless now, it makes no difference if you are in WvW sPvP or PvE, since every other class outeverythings you: There are better buffers (like a warrior), Better healers (like an ele) Better cond stackers (like everything else in the game) Better dmg dealers (like everything else).
So yeah, devs have no idea what to do with guardians. What a shame.
Nortec (Asura Engineer) / Tunridae (Norn Guardian)
Guerreros de la Útima Alianza [GDUA]
Sorrow’s Furnace
Guerreros de la Útima Alianza [GDUA]
Sorrow’s Furnace
“The guardian is balanced.”
“The guardian is in a good place.”
Well since you mentioned dungeons I’d say it’s just fine as is for pve.
Well, it’s just a cop-out for the devs having no idea what to do with the guardian.
- They don’t want to make it a tank because “no trinity”.
They have the option of giving the entire group perma prot by using a hammer build and losing very little dps from doing so. I’d say that’s pretty strong.
- They don’t want to make it a healer because “no trinity”. (also healing doesn’t scale well in this game anyway)
The best way to survive is to mitigate damage in this game. Guardian has a ton of stuff for the group to do this. No class makes a good healer.
- They don’t want to give it more damage because that would make it a warrior.
Fully buffed guardians outdps fully buffed warriors. Guardian didn’t get hurt as bad as other classes with this patch since a lot of their dps comes from multipliers instead of crit damage.
- We have only one condition but it doesn’t stack.
Conditions suck for pve.
- We have weak CC’ss so we can’t keep enemies on the ground like some other classes.
Binding blades is very strong. You also have ring of warding, line of warding, sanctuary, and banish. That’s more than a lot of others have.
What can we do well? We can buff groups. That’s pretty much it. We are buffing machines for WvW and dungeons. And I’m pretty sure the warrior can do it better now.
That’s why you take any class in a group. They do unique buffs or support for the content and guardians bring a lot to a group. Bringing damage buffs is why you bring other classes. You don’t seem to understand that guardians do good dps.
A healing guardian’s healing is pretty good in my eyes (plus Healing Breeze just got a great buff; Rune of the Monk is also perfect for healing guardians), and Tome of Courage essentially makes the player a healing monk for 20-30 seconds.
They could probably be better, but I think it’s at least viable (in pvp, idk about the other modes). I have to say though, I wish guardians got their own Aquatic Benevolence trait. ._.
(edited by Fashion Mage.3712)
In pve guardians are great, high damage, high support and high sustain.
A healing guardian’s healing is pretty good in my eyes (plus Healing Breeze just got a great buff; Rune of the Monk is also perfect for healing guardians), and Tome of Courage essentially makes the player a healing monk for 20-30 seconds.
They could probably be better, but I think it’s at least viable (in pvp, idk about the other modes). I have to say though, I wish guardians got their own Aquatic Benevolence trait. ._.
Eles+blasts do better that role, one thing i avoid in my groups are healing specced Guardians.
In pve guardians are great, high damage, high support and high sustain.
In Pve anything works.. so its irrelevant.
1st April joke, when gw2 receives a “balance” update.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
Great stuff guys, I am glad that more people are starting to become aware of the “state of guardians”. +1
iunno why people keep going back to, oh you could do perma prot… hammer builds are bad in pve.
“The guardian is in a good place.”
The already overpowered godlike master-class, Warrior, got massive boosts this patch. This is frankly bullkitten.
I think they listen far too much to Josh Grouch. On every single broadcast he did, he suggested to the devs that Guardians were in a good place. Then they employed him! /facepalm
(edited by Svarty.8019)
iunno why people keep going back to, oh you could do perma prot… hammer builds are bad in pve.
hammer build bad in pve. sorry what
hammer build is the single strongest pve build in the game is greatest and only alt to Gs/s build.
consent dmg consent Prot buff consent big aoe(larger symbols)
gs/sword build ya nice dmg but higher risk of being on the floor.
a great knockback for bosses to get into a corner.
blast finisher
ya it gets kittening boring but dam is it hard to replace in survivability and have a decent dmg output with great group benefit. while the Gs/s build is all about your dps.
the problem is they kittening done nothing with the guardian since launch.
new healing skill blockpvp and signet pve far superior
new traits other then 3000 hp trait for wvw everything else is useless.
The guardian is a pseudo support only, in a game with awful support system, and every class can do it if you build for that.
I play as support in every game, casual and competitive, i enjoy it a lot, but in gw2 is just awful, boring and almost useless, no target needed for teammates, is a spam fest of few buttons. DPS and CC is far better.
You are an stability buff machine.
“The guardian is in a good place.”
The already overpowered godlike master-class, Warrior, got massive boosts this patch. This is frankly bullkitten.
I think they listen far too much to Josh Grouch. On every single broadcast he did, he suggested to the devs that Guardians were in a good place. Then they employed him! /facepalm
What warrior buffs were there? I see some nerfs…
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
A healing guardian’s healing is pretty good in my eyes (plus Healing Breeze just got a great buff; Rune of the Monk is also perfect for healing guardians), and Tome of Courage essentially makes the player a healing monk for 20-30 seconds.
They could probably be better, but I think it’s at least viable (in pvp, idk about the other modes). I have to say though, I wish guardians got their own Aquatic Benevolence trait. ._.Eles+blasts do better that role, one thing i avoid in my groups are healing specced Guardians.
Elementalists do the role better normally, but from the (somewhat loose) calculations I’ve made: a healing guardian’s healing output is about 33% weaker than a water elementalist’s healing output, however, a guardian’s healing output far outscales that of a water elementalist via Tome of Courage. Additionally, a healing guardian offers a lot of defensive support in other ways (bubbles/wards, buffs, aegis, etc), whereas elementalists generally have a lot less of that sort of thing.
(edited by Fashion Mage.3712)
Guardians are defensive characters that bring support (boons) and have high sustain, and can trait to do nice damage too, so I do think they (the devs) have a good idea about the class.
If you are bored reroll
You all should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves. People in this thread actually saying Guards are useless in ANY format? Guards of the backbones of every good comp in EVERY format (at the very least they’re very strong in PvE, they’re almost necessary in SPvP/WvW). Guardians are the backbone and driving force behind the hammer train, the warriors would die so fast w/o guards there to heal/buff and dish some damage too. Guards are among the top bunkers in the game, capable of surviving 1v2s for a loooooong time. Guardians are also one of/if not the (tied with ele imo) best group classes in the game with massive boon sharing and aoe condi cleanse (as well as aoe heals/blinds/aegis etc…). Guardians are absolutely in a great place right now. Saying they are isn’t a cop out, it’s the truth. You guys whine enough and get our class buffed, we’ll be ridiculously OP. After that, we’ll get nerfed into the ground and our class will be wrecked.
Seriously, stop being so whiny because you’re not owning everything in sight. We’re in a good place.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Guards are good as it is. The only way it would be better is if condition builds were viable to add to the variety of builds. As it is post patch that may be in fact possible. I am currently testing out some variants.
You all should absolutely be ashamed of yourselves. People in this thread actually saying Guards are useless in ANY format? Guards of the backbones of every good comp in EVERY format (at the very least they’re very strong in PvE, they’re almost necessary in SPvP/WvW). Guardians are the backbone and driving force behind the hammer train, the warriors would die so fast w/o guards there to heal/buff and dish some damage too. Guards are among the top bunkers in the game, capable of surviving 1v2s for a loooooong time. Guardians are also one of/if not the (tied with ele imo) best group classes in the game with massive boon sharing and aoe condi cleanse (as well as aoe heals/blinds/aegis etc…). Guardians are absolutely in a great place right now. Saying they are isn’t a cop out, it’s the truth. You guys whine enough and get our class buffed, we’ll be ridiculously OP. After that, we’ll get nerfed into the ground and our class will be wrecked.
Seriously, stop being so whiny because you’re not owning everything in sight. We’re in a good place.
This comment absolutely irks me to no end. And it’s comments like these that have kept us stagnant for 1 1/2 years. Yes, guardians are good at bunkering and “supporting.” In PVE that’s fine I guess, but that’s PVE. What about dps/burst in PVP. Because as it stands a Warrior can pull just as much dps/burst as a guardian, yet not have to give up nearly as much survivability. I guess Meds are “ok,” but require twice the amount of effort as other specs. One mistake and you are dead.
Our vigor was nerfed (which we rely on more than most other professions), spirit weapons suck, signets suck, we have the lowest tier of health, are slow as molasses, and have no soft cc. Scepter orbs are still slow, scepter can be completely negated by strafing back and forth, Shield 4 is worthless, for some reason we have to stop and stand in our staff circle just to get a little mobility, the mace is slow, the hammer is slow, sword 2 (maybe it’s 3, I can’t remember) can be strafed, and on and on.
On top of that our new traits are worthless….300 Vitality in the Honor line? No med guards goes all the way into the Honor line. Increased condition damage? All we have is burn. Aegis to those around us, but not ourselves? A condi/retal trait with horrible scaling in pvp.
For the love of god please stop shooting yourself in the foot by stating guardians “are in a good place.” It’s absolute hogwash.
“Pimpin aint ez”
I don’t think we are balanced when we only have 1 effective build for each game mode.
Changes over the last year have not created any build diversity.
We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
Anet lied (where’s the Manifesto now?)
I don’t think we are balanced when we only have 1 effective build for each game mode.
Changes over the last year have not created any build diversity.
Really? Let me just disprove you, DPS guardian and there is bunker in spvp. The guardian dps is extremely high in all areas in the game and so is it’s support.
The guardian is the most balance class in the game. The problem is that being the most balance class in a game is terrible when you have classes like the old hambone warrior, necro and engineers around for example.
Elementalist and mesmers wish they could be like the guardian in spvp (since PvE is so worthless that gimmicky builds can work in it).
As u know im pro. ~Tomonobu Itagaki
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
This is an mmo forum, if someone isn’t whining chances are the game is dead.
I don’t think we are balanced when we only have 1 effective build for each game mode.
Changes over the last year have not created any build diversity.
PvE has hammer dps and 1 hander dps, WvW has balanced AH and healway.
Not sure about pvp, but there’s more than 1 build. There should be more of course.
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards,
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
for there you have been and there you will long to return.
This comment absolutely irks me to no end. And it’s comments like these that have kept us stagnant for 1 1/2 years. Yes, guardians are good at bunkering and “supporting.” In PVE that’s fine I guess, but that’s PVE. What about dps/burst in PVP. Because as it stands a Warrior can pull just as much dps/burst as a guardian, yet not have to give up nearly as much survivability. I guess Meds are “ok,” but require twice the amount of effort as other specs. One mistake and you are dead.
Guardian dps builds, thanks to natural might stacking capabilities and synergy with altruistic healing, are exceedingly potent right now. Slap on empowering might, altruistic healing, shouts, grab sigil of battle/strength, you can build yourself with mostly knights/cav and you will hit like a TRUCK. I duel in wvw and spvp day in, and day out, with 3.5k armor I still can kill most classes relatively quickly with scepter/focus and gs (you just have to be a decent player). No need for a medi burst build.
Beyond that, not all classes are the same. Sure, we don’t dps as well as wars when geared for it (I’ll grant it but I don’t think it’s true), but they don’t support as well as we do, they don’t bunker as well as we do, etc…
Our vigor was nerfed (which we rely on more than most other professions), spirit weapons suck, signets suck, we have the lowest tier of health, are slow as molasses, and have no soft cc. Scepter orbs are still slow, scepter can be completely negated by strafing back and forth, Shield 4 is worthless, for some reason we have to stop and stand in our staff circle just to get a little mobility, the mace is slow, the hammer is slow, sword 2 (maybe it’s 3, I can’t remember) can be strafed, and on and on.
Strafing back and forth will only dodge if the scepter user is at a long range (600-700 units), you can safely kite at 400-500 and consistently hit your opponent from that range. Scepter has an immob with almost no tell, a really quickly reusable attack that can not be completely negated by strafing (you have to actively move out/dodge, which leaves you open to scepter autos). Shield 4 grants protect, is aoe, and hits fairly hard… it’s not amazing but it’s not useless. Sword 3 can be strafed but that’s how it should be, it hits like a truck and is ranged. The bigger problem with it is that is starts randomly missing some of it’s projectiles after a certain distance (sorta like a shotgun’s pellets start hitting a target less and less the further out it is).
On top of that our new traits are worthless….300 Vitality in the Honor line? No med guards goes all the way into the Honor line. Increased condition damage? All we have is burn. Aegis to those around us, but not ourselves? A condi/retal trait with horrible scaling in pvp.
Fair enough but that doesn’t mean we’re not in a good spot… They took a good step by trying to make condi guards more viable but it wasn’t enough. Instead of asking for guard as a class to be buffed, and saying it’s weak, we need to be asking for certain guard builds to be buffed… The weapons, the basic tenets of guard, work fine. Shout/medi builds perform adequately, consecrations see decent general use (e.g. wall of reflection for zergs/pve). It’s not our class that’s the problem, the class in general is fine where it is in the meta… we just (like EVERY other class I might add) need certain things made more viable. But this is not unique to guard, it is this way for every other class.
For the love of god please stop shooting yourself in the foot by stating guardians “are in a good place.” It’s absolute hogwash.
Sorry, but your arguments fail. They amount to “we have some things that are useless on guard, therefore guard isn’t in a good place”. It doesn’t work, cus it’s not true, and it also applies to every other class. Name me 1 class that doesn’t have tons of builds/utilities that aren’t very good at most types of content. This is a problem that is not unique to guard, so saying that therefore guard is unbalanced in a negative way ultimately fails hard.
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
I don’t think we are balanced when we only have 1 effective build for each game mode.
Changes over the last year have not created any build diversity.
WvW roaming:
Healway
Medi burst
Boonspam builds
Dueling:
Medi builds (both burst and sustain)
Might stacking bunker (currently one of the strongest builds in the game period, thanks to new runes/sigils)
Standard shout builds (usually something like 0/5/30/30/5 with knights/cav/bers/cleric mixes/valk mixes)
Healway (healway is virtually unbeatable in duels, you either draw or you win, though there are a lot of draws LOL)
SPvP:
Standard guard bunker
DPS medi burst (admittedly not the best in general but still viable)
The build variety for guard is nearly as strong as it is for any other class… stronger than a lot in fact (ranger and ele in specific have very little build diversity, in fact, rangers are literally BAD at entire segments of the game (e.g. wvw zergs and to a lesser extent wvw roaming).
Jorek/Etharin/Raylus
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
Darkhaven Commander
Co-leader of [Sold]
until they fix light fields overriding fire fields in PvE, you need to stop it with the hammers.