Guild Wars 2

I’m sure you have there’s been quite some talks with new developments towards both Warrior class and Guardian. I played a Guardian since day 1. Our (guardians) game mechanics have been providing group’s support when they are in a pinch via activating virtues, and/or shouts and/or reflection – all of which are decent enough for short term support since our group heals/block (not counting staff) have quite a long recharge (60+).

Warrior with at least their new and improved shouts boost( aside the fact that most of which have short CD in 20’s and 30’s), if traited and optionally runed, can do group-condition removal and heals (about 3.5k per shout if goes full cleric) with such a short cool down and can do all that in successive manner (i.e. popping 3 shouts for up to 10k group heal).

I have no spite against Warriors, pretty happy for their boost, but at the same time, I now wonder why a Guard at all, what else do we mean when a warrior can do almost the same job: group heal, condition removal while still being decent at DPS (i.e. at least 40 trait point left to invest elsewhere, like in offensive lines).

You could say Warriors are the swords, and Guardians are the shield. Now that the War reached over to our domain of specialty. That is not to say guardian are rendered completely outmatched, as we got one remaining useful thing which is the group stability. Still, the way i see it, the reason to play a Guardian has been narrowed down quite much. So since swords suddenly can become group support, maybe us Guardians can get some equivalent upgrade… like the Zeal line for example?

I don’t see how those War shout heals are that big of a deal, so they can heal for 6-9k on groupmates near them with 3 shouts every 20-30 seconds..

When i’m in healer mode I can do 3k heals with VoR activate, empower buff and healing breeze on teammates, hold the line is another 2-3k in regen, then theres a regen from VoR traited activate, orb detonates heal for like 2k, dodge rolls heal for 2k all over the place constantly, most importantly battle presence constantly ticking on my teammates for like 250 forever and ever… oh yeah and of course tome of courage with a full far range group heal and spammable 2k group heals, and a neverending regen.

To me Warrior group healing seems completely irrelevant in comparison to what we can do, I think their 3 group shouts would equal about as much as my VoR battle presence ticks total healing in a 30 second period which complement my far superior burst healing nicely.

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Incomingray.8075:

I don’t see how those War shout heals are that big of a deal, so they can heal for 6-9k on groupmates near them with 3 shouts every 20-30 seconds..

When i’m in healer mode I can do 3k heals with VoR activate, empower buff and healing breeze on teammates, hold the line is another 2-3k in regen, then theres a regen from VoR traited activate, orb detonates heal for like 2k, dodge rolls heal for 2k all over the place constantly, most importantly battle presence constantly ticking on my teammates for like 250 forever and ever… oh yeah and of course tome of courage with a full far range group heal and spammable 2k group heals, and a neverending regen.

To me Warrior group healing seems completely irrelevant in comparison to what we can do, I think their 3 group shouts would equal about as much as my VoR battle presence ticks total healing in a 30 second period which complement my far superior burst healing nicely.

You’re also forgetting Shrug it Off btw

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

The only things we have going for us now are Vigor and protection. Those are the only things. Staff you’re just a 12 stack of might+ heal. Condi removal is gutted outside PVE, unless you’re running DPS meditation then you have okay Condi removal..

Yaki.9563:

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

You all can ignore this guy…. another warrior trying to defend his op class… man these trolls are coming out of the wood work after this last mega love patch for warriors…

To everyone saying that Warrior Healing is useless, do you ever stop to think about full apothecary? Full healing warrior is far superior than Guardian, becouse they can do descent dmg (both in clerics or apothecary) and have insane heals. Not only by shouts, but by perma regen via banners too (400 per sec). Also warriors can heal themselves for 1000+ per second.

How guardian can heal while being useful? We do basically no dmg when we build to full heal.

Lucentfir.7430:

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

Don’t forget the 0 power to go along with those bleeds and torments that do bad damage because of the low condition damage stat. So yes, that is pretty useless. HS and Adrenal Health only affect the warrior, and barely increase at all with healing power.

Mikau.6920:

To everyone saying that Warrior Healing is useless, do you ever stop to think about full apothecary? Full healing warrior is far superior than Guardian, becouse they can do descent dmg (both in clerics or apothecary) and have insane heals. Not only by shouts, but by perma regen via banners too (400 per sec). Also warriors can heal themselves for 1000+ per second.

How guardian can heal while being useful? We do basically no dmg when we build to full heal.

Apothecary or clerics is not decent damage. Also, you can’t get healing shouts and banner regen. Warriors can’t heal themselves for 1000+ per second. Why am I even bothering to respond, every single thing you said is wrong.

And thinking that damage is the only useful thing anyone provides besides healing is a laughable statement. Yea, WoR useless. Group stability useless. Elite healing skill useless. Group aegis useless. Group protection useless.

Irsei.6802:

Yaki.9563:

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

You all can ignore this guy…. another warrior trying to defend his op class… man these trolls are coming out of the wood work after this last mega love patch for warriors…

I don’t run shouts and I certainly don’t run cleric’s gear. I also play a guardian. Check my posts on the warrior forums. I make fun of the people that think shout heal builds are good.

And calling a 15% increase to a rarely used (for good reason) trait “mega-love” is hilarious.

Irsei.6802:

Yaki.9563:

Full cleric (magi back) is only 1064 healing power. Extra 300 from traits (lol), extra 150ish from food gives you a whoping total of about 1500 healing power. That means your shouts heal for 2850 or so. Not 3400. Exaggerate much?

So you’ve got some warrior burning 3 utility slots with short range on the heal, traited fully into worthless defensive trait lines, wearing worthless gear, and otherwise almost entirely worthless just so they can heal some butt-huggers for less than 9000 every 25 seconds.

That doesn’t sound like Guardian at all.

The truly hilarious part? Before the patch they could do the same thing except, oh noes, they only healed for 8000 instead of 9000 every 25s. Did anyone seriously run such a troll build? Nope. Will they now? Maybe if they’re dumb.

You all can ignore this guy…. another warrior trying to defend his op class… man these trolls are coming out of the wood work after this last mega love patch for warriors…

I don’t know. He seems to be making a valid point about burning 3 utility slots and going down a subpar tree. Maybe you could counter his points, because well, he’s not the one sounding like a troll here.

Besides any “point burning”, etc., the fact is that Guardian/Warrior are very different playstyles (IME, Guardian being easier all things considered), and you should play whichever one you enjoy more (or both.) The Warrior is nice and all but it can’t provide what the Guardian does (lots of Protection, life-saving Aegis, group missile deflection, etc.) Who heals for the most isn’t the only difference between them, even though they both wear heavy armor

(It goes without mention that the Guardian also can’t offer what the Warrior does.)

Yaki.9563:

Lucentfir.7430:

hybrid.5027:

Guardian can heal while still being useful. A Warrior is pretty much useless when traited to shout heal.

Yes especially in a Condi bunker build those bleed burn, torment, and 4 shouts that heal for 2.3k+ are nothing! lets not forget Healing Signet with and Adrenal health useless….oh wait..

Don’t forget the 0 power to go along with those bleeds and torments that do bad damage because of the low condition damage stat. So yes, that is pretty useless. HS and Adrenal Health only affect the warrior, and barely increase at all with healing power.

You know what’s funny you’re talking to me as if i don’t own one . S/S Longbow, Apot/Celestial mix. Get out of here. I own a warrior, and run a condi bunker spec myself, i make up for more damage through Superior sigil of battle (That 16+ might stack, Combustion Shot, and Savage Leap Fire Shield, and Arching Arrow Blast finisher). Running Shouts? Grab Solider runes Shake it off and shrug it off=2 condi cleanse each(4 in total not including the 2 other shouts). If I want versatility and only support I take up warhorn and Quick breathing, so I at least still have bleeds and burns Or if i really need another Dot , Superior Sigil of Doom for poison. I have no problems killing anything, the only problems I have are other well played Condi Warriors, Good mesmers, and the occasional Engineer. Guardians i run into that aren’t Healway are basically free food for me. Also traited into Healing shouts support wise I get people up faster when they’re downed, which has also been a real life saver in small skirmishes.

I own two guardians, and over 4.5k hours with them in total, so I know the definite weaknesses and strength of my class. Right now the only thing that’s going for us is Regen and protection. You’d be useless for everything outside of boons, and heals, with lower Health pool.. If you’re going the support route.

I’m not an expert in all skills/traits, but playing in WvW recently has shown me that healing is only half the battle. Getting myself and allies out of CC is invaluable, and often accomplishes much more than a big heal would. I don’t know what Warrior can do as far as instant and versatile tools against CC, but I’m extremely impressed with the utility my guardian brings to team fights.

stand your ground is a borderline OP skill that only guardians (and now mesmers and engineers) can bring to the table.

Group wide stability pushes the favor of the encounter massively to you. It allows uninterrupted stomps which quickly whittles down the resistance. It allows pushing past line of warding (another guardian staple) and fear walls.

In fact, if the guardian’s only function was to provide aoe stability, it would already be pretty powerful. Instead, guards still give good uptime of group protection, regen, and might to their very grateful allies. Not to mention aoe blinds, aegis and heals. Also, one of the most annoying control effects in the game (gs5).

I, as a warrior main, respect and fear guardians for the effect even one (well played one) can bring on the battlefield.

Of course, this is all just for pvp/wvw. For fotm, reflects op

4 KD warriors + one support guardian make a hell of a group.

I look at it this way. Guardians are weaker warriors that provide more boons/support. You might not do as much damage but the support you bring is outstanding.

A great way to notice this is the hammer for each profession. A Warrior can brute force down just about anything with the current state of the game. Guardians however have a little bit longer swings but can provide fields (which often don’t get taken advantage of). That means that even though your 3rd auto-attack for hammer on Guardian is super slow, you’re providing AOE protection versus the Warrior that is just doing damage.

When I play Guardian, I benefit myself from all the regen by using clerics gear. This allows me to keep my moderate DPS going while in the middle of the fight for longer periods of time. Warrior however is mostly PVT gear with higher damage but I have to get out of the main battle more often. Its a trade-off that you have to choose between….then again, these are my builds and how I choose to play. I’m sure other people are different.

Blackarps.1974:

I look at it this way. Guardians are weaker warriors that provide more boons/support. You might not do as much damage but the support you bring is outstanding.

A great way to notice this is the hammer for each profession. A Warrior can brute force down just about anything with the current state of the game. Guardians however have a little bit longer swings but can provide fields (which often don’t get taken advantage of). That means that even though your 3rd auto-attack for hammer on Guardian is super slow, you’re providing AOE protection versus the Warrior that is just doing damage.

When I play Guardian, I benefit myself from all the regen by using clerics gear. This allows me to keep my moderate DPS going while in the middle of the fight for longer periods of time. Warrior however is mostly PVT gear with higher damage but I have to get out of the main battle more often. Its a trade-off that you have to choose between….then again, these are my builds and how I choose to play. I’m sure other people are different.

This post pretty much summarizes the differences between Warriors and Guardians. Though both have their pros and cons, they are both equally good. It just makes it so difficult to choose which one to play :<

guardians provide stability, protection/regeneration, while converting 1 condition to boon + a remove all condition + powerful defensive spells with the tome.
A guardian is more defensive even if a warrior can help him healing and removing conditions

Guardians aren’t about damage repair, they are about damage prevention that’s why they are called Guardians.

When Wars get the AOE projectile reflect/absorb, group stability and group blocks we have access to then I will be annoyed.

There is no healing meta in this game, or so the bill of goods sold to us was manifested. But, we know how that goes. Guardian is, my opinion, a hybrid class that offers a solid supporting cast/role but will never be the leading man. Now, I will also be the first to say that I believe there are 5 to 10 players who actively post on this very forum who excel at this class and make it a leading man.

The Guardian in many recent arguments has become stale and stagnant while other classes have received positive adjustments. This is, of course, from a PvP/WvW perspective because, well, PvE doesn’t matter. Furthermore, this isn’t something that is only plaguing GW2. All other multiplayer MMO/RPG type games run into this brick wall sooner or later unless you play a FPS game on a console.

The game should make you choose between DPS, Support, or Defense. And whatever you choose, your class should do that function well regardless if it is one you are not playing. However, that isn’t the case anymore. I’ve seen this first hand out in WvW playing a DPS only spec, a support/healing spec, and even a hybrid who does both. While I’m not skilled like many here I can still do simple math. And, it isn’t a case of being out played.

The problem in my opinion is the cross pollenating of traits or utopia. Not every class has to have the same trait or do the same thing. Let them be unique.