Guild Wars 2

Warrior want protection too, what do you thing about it?Givin them protection too make them a lot stronger than us for my opinion in large battle like wvw. Our Hp pool is ridicolous for a melee class…

It is not the warrior protection, its the current warrior and thief buffs that destroyed guardian mechanic right now. Guardian was build around boon such as protection and retaltion to mitigate its low damage and hp disadvantage.

Now that thief is able to steal those boons, warriors new trait that increase dmg based on enemy boons and not to mention the larcenous strike and signet of might unblockable status, guardian is definitely feels awful to play after the update and I am kitten at this. Feel like rerolling to thief/warrior now

What they want and what they get are two different things, so I’m not concerned at all. As far as the last patch is concerned, I don’t care. A thief playing sword/dagger must still be pretty desperate.

Thief boon steal is fun when you play a thief, but when you play guardian you can see how much it destroys the class. Boon steal with the sword has no cooldown, so it can be used near indefinitely with the right build. What this means is guardian can never use boons because they will always get stolen.

Problem is, guardian’s design revolves around boons. The low hp pool, the low damage all reflect that fact. With boon’s stripped completely the class feels very unplayable.

I have no idea what Anet will do about this, but probably nothing.

My experience with warrior boon hate vs thief boon steal is that warrior’s haven’t changed much. You can still avoid their damage, so you can avoid their boon hate. Plus, the amount of damage boon hate does (with max boons) is about the same as if you traited into a dps trait tree.

Thief on the other hand, infinite boon steal while almost being untouchable with evade.

Guardian is not “destroyed”. And there is much more to a guardian than just boons…

Before the patch a thief had nearly no chance against a guardian. Regen+Protection+Retaliation… guardian could just stand still on his GS simbol and the thief would just die…
Now it really depends on the skill of each player.
I can actually think of killing a guardian on my thief now.
And on my guard I actually have to play to kill a thief instead of just waiting for the thief to kill itself.

People I was talking of guardians and warriors in large fight like wvw , not in 1 vs 1 situations

Thief’s Larcenous Strike is out of hand, mainly because it’s spammable due to Thief’s ini system, otherwise it would be fine.

Warrior, however, didn’t change one bit. Speccing 30 in Discipline for the boon hate trait is actually a loss of DPS, not a gain because you have to sacrifice Either Arms or Strenght, the main sources of War’s DPS, for it. Warrior’s are still outclassed by Guardians and need a lot of help to get on Guardian’s level.

Warrior’s need help to get on guardian’s level?Warrior’s are better in PvE (a lot better) and WvW (not a lot but with hammer and a full shout build can resist more than a shout guardian) , Guardian is better in structured with a bunker build (the only available for guardian in structured , the rest is a s_ _t)

lLobo.7960:

Guardian is not “destroyed”. And there is much more to a guardian than just boons…

Before the patch a thief had nearly no chance against a guardian. Regen+Protection+Retaliation… guardian could just stand still on his GS simbol and the thief would just die…
Now it really depends on the skill of each player.
I can actually think of killing a guardian on my thief now.
And on my guard I actually have to play to kill a thief instead of just waiting for the thief to kill itself.

Oh really? According to anet guardian is all about boons. So how can there be much more to guardian than boons when just about every skill provides them?

According to ANet, even condition builds are great for a guardian …

A good guardian will wreck a good warrior. If you really think guardian is “destroyed” after this last patch, you know nothing about the current state of sPVP (and even WvW).

Some might say our Virtues are our profession mechanic (F1, F2, F3) but it’s the boons that are out profession mechanic. Without our boons we are pretty much useless.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Warrior’s need help to get on guardian’s level?Warrior’s are better in PvE (a lot better) and WvW (not a lot but with hammer and a full shout build can resist more than a shout guardian) , Guardian is better in structured with a bunker build (the only available for guardian in structured , the rest is a s_ _t)

Warrior’s are not that better in PvE than Guardian outside of CoF P1 speed farm, as Guardian’s can practically afk at bosses and are absolutely required in high level Fractals.

In WvW Warrior’s are pretty good, especially Hammer Warrior but a tanky Guardian will always be more tanky than a tanky Warrior.

And really, Guardian’s only build in s/tPvP is bunker? So you even play Guardian? They have many viable builds, while Warrior has none and are never seen in tPvP as every class is a better team slot than Warrior.

SPvP is another thing , isn’t comparable with the meta-game of WvW. If you play in the same way so is you that don’t know nothing about the current state of the things.“a guardian will wreck a good warrior”…maybe but I’m talking about mass pvp.Try 10 shout -build guardian (the most used in wvw) vs 10 shout -build warrior with hammer with aoe stuns ,every one that heal each-other for 1500 every shout and then you can see if warriors need others to be competitive.for me abolutely not

The only guardians you see in SPVP are the bunker , most of the people play thief-ranger-mesmer or necro -.- And yes , I play a Guardian , I have more than 15 k kills in WvW and I played a lot of different build.The best for WvW for a front-line soldier is the shout build with hammer.We can consider all the build for a Guardian if you prefer.
-spiritual weapon (really useless cause their duration is low and their hp too)
-condition damage (really a s_ _t )
-shout build (the most used in WvW)
-tanky build (the most used in SPVP)
-berserker (is it really a choise with our low hp pool??)
-consecration (can be good for support in WvW , for the rest is useless)

Cloud, you go to to the warrior forums and complain there saying that any buff to warrior providing protection would destroy guardian, then a day later you make this thread. I primarily play Warrior and then Guardian. I have less then a 50 hour difference in play time between the two classes. My Guardian could DESTROY my warrior in all cases. For warrior to invest in Boon Hate they need to dedicate 30 points into what some describe as the worst trait tree. The class specific stat that we get from the line after investing these 30 points is 3% burst damage. That is less then, count them, 1 stack of might, on our burst skill. Even then boon hate is circumstantial because if you have protection up while fighting anyone, The damage increase becomes almost useless. Warrior is a heavy armor class but yet lacks a lot of ways to mitigate damage aside from Endure pain 4 second block of direct damage (90 second cool down) Conditions still apply, Conditions still do damage,can still be knocked down, and CC’d. The other being Shield stance Block for 3 second 30 second cool down. Other actions cancel this ability. Conditions and CC still apply. My guardian trumps this in EVERY way. Shelter, Focus, Shouts, aegis, protection, regen, vigor,Roll heals, I could go on but I would hope you see my point. NO ONE is asking for guardian to be changed AT ALL. Guardians are in a great place right now and are one of the most balanced classes out there. They are very group friendly and provided some of the greatest support in the game as well as function. They are a multi-roll class that can offer alot to the table. So Really, I don’t understand what your issue with giving warrior any type of look at. This last patch was a joke for us. A cruel joke. What we got was a circumstantial damage boost for a heavy trait investment and turtles defense turned into 3 seconds of regen (10 second cool down) Hardly noticeable.

Bacon,

The problem with your analysis is that you are comparing a tank guardian with cleric gear to a dps warrior with zerker gear.

Compare the two traited as tanks (toughness and vitality trees) with cleric gear and provide some real numbers with their survivability difference. It won’t be that large as people try to make it seem to be.

Warriors tend to bring up the protection boon into their argument often, but fail to realize their base hp compared to guardian. Which is much much more and offer more flexibility when it comes to stats.

Have I ever speak about boonhate or last patch? People have to stop to play a warrior berserker and say “guardian can resist more”. Want a build for the Warrior that can be very good in WvW?I can give you on pvt if you want , then you can tell me if warrior it’s so easy to be destroyed by a guardian

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Have I ever speak about boonhate or last patch? People have to stop to play a warrior berserker and say “guardian can resist more”. Want a build for the Warrior that can be very good in WvW?I can give you on pvt if you want , then you can tell me if warrior it’s so easy to be destroyed by a guardian

Also, I don’t run berserker by the way, I run Power, Toughness, Vitality with a 2 peices of Valkyrie. I can’t think of a decent warrior is wvw or spvp that use berserker. Have a good day sir.

Bacon If you take a look on my first post I’m talking about WvW , I’m not interested in fractal , I’m only on lvl 3 on that.I never talked about dungeon.Mobs are not like players -.-

Bacon Please.8407:

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

No, not true. Guardian can not heal the group for 2k hp x3 with shouts. And warrior probably has better regen with their adrenal health, healing signet and perma regen from banners. Guardian can not provide offensive buffs, warrior can. The banner buffs are huge, guard can’t give the group benefits from: banner of strength, tactics, discipline and defense. Is that not utility?

Even warrior can have a pure of voice like trait with their warhorn:

Quick Breathing Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

vs

Pure of Voice: Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon.

I ask again, what utility is warrior missing over guardian? I know you aren’t asking for a nerf but you have to show actual facts and comparisons. Because looking at the skills, mostly everything guardian does warrior can do it also, albeit a bit differently.

Guardian is fine. Boon hate is still a mechanic that needs work to deal with things like protection. Some topics of discussion that have gone on over at that warrior forums are things like a global reduction to protection to 25% or 20% for all classes, limited access to protection, giving boon hate protection stripping/ignoring properties, etc.

The goal with all of this isn’t to make the guardian – or any other class – useless. Nobody wants that. We’re all just thinking of ways to make our favorite class a) more competitive and b) more interesting. Anet said in the past that they’re not going to try to balance us in a single patch. I’m expecting more patches in this direction, along with minor tweaks to the last patch, none of which should be making guardians panic nearly as much as they are. Relax. =)

Aza.2105:

Bacon Please.8407:

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

No, not true. Guardian can not heal the group for 2k hp x3 with shouts. And warrior probably has better regen with their adrenal health, healing signet and perma regen from banners. Guardian can not provide offensive buffs, warrior can. The banner buffs are huge, guard can’t give the group benefits from: banner of strength, tactics, discipline and defense. Is that not utility?

Even warrior can have a pure of voice like trait with their warhorn:

Quick Breathing Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

vs

Pure of Voice: Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon.

I ask again, what utility is warrior missing over guardian? I know you aren’t asking for a nerf but you have to show actual facts and comparisons. Because looking at the skills, mostly everything guardian does warrior can do it also, albeit a bit differently.

Okay, lets play.

My dodge roll heals for around 1.2-1.4k and I use sigils of energy on both wepon sets so I dodge atleast once every time i switch. So lets say 4 times.

When I switch to staff I can constently spam 12 stacks of might with 100% uptime because of my boon duration build as well as that nice 2.4k heal to the area around me. I switch to Mace Shield to knock enemys away and pop shield for another ~1.2k heal. I haven’t even popped utilities yet. WIth traits I pop my virtue of resolve for another ~2.5k heal. Now I’m selfish and usually use Shelter, but lets say I switch to healing breeze, Don’t even know the heal on this. Hold the Line another 3k In regen because i have so much boon duration and healing power. all the while I am rolling around the battlefield healing everything in my area. Not to mention the retaliation, stability from stand your ground and Save yourself taking All conditions into myself and converting them to boons with pure of voice. After all that I popped renewed focus and pop virtues again if needed.

So warriors asking for protection makes Guardian useless? I hang my head in disbelief.

TLDR...

Warrior:
The bonus damage per boon is a grand master ability in the discipline tree and you have to sacrifice a lot going down that useless tree. On average it will help against bunker ele’s more than guardians mainly because guardian does carry boons but not on high uptime (Save Yourself is only 10-20 seconds in length depending on your boon duration increases). Even in that time you are only seeing 8 boons or 7 if your aegis gets absorbed. If you have all boons including Aegis you will receive a maximum of 27% damage which only makes protection reduce 6% of damage.

It’s not that big of a deal damage wise. I mean if we are talking all boons minus protection, than yeah it will hurt, but how many guardians do you know run boons and don’t get protection?

Thief:
Makes me wish I never deleted my d/d thief. Finally, a spec worth a kitten besides 25/30/0/0/15. Thieves that run s/d will have the boon steal but they lack the burst unless they swap to d/d after stealing your boons and backstab you. Regardless, they are easily countered still. I can’t stand d/p thieves and that kitten black powder. Makes melee very difficult on melee.

Honestly, I wish this boon hate only applied to warrior’s burst ability. +5% bonus damage to our burst attack per boon. Having a passive ability is rather boring.

Highly probable the OP is a play tester for Arenanet.

I see these changes more of a forced attempt by Anet to make Guardians rely on other skills than just shouts, since likely it was the most effective and popular way to play this profession.

What I think will happen is that now those who are not relying on boon builds will go with meditations/consecrations builds and start seeing the difference and probably the opinions will mixed but more likely more negatives, everyone will complain about the underwhelming meditations/consecrations and eventually Anet will buff those and make Guardians more competitive again in the grand scheme of things.

I don’t believe boons will be ‘rebuffed’ for the Guardian, to have this measure taken only now it means Anet balancing team had plenty of time to sort this out, what we can expect now is other aspects of the Guardian being enhanced.

The only time Larcenous Strike is going to make any sort of appreciable difference is if it’s a 2v1 fight and there’s another DPS out there to actually kill you once the thief takes your boons off. A sword thief has zero chance against a guardian even without the boons.

It’s not like boon removal is something new. Mesmers can steal all your boons and then keep you from applying any more with their auto-attack chain, of all things, and they can also make clones that also remove boons.

Aza.2105:

lLobo.7960:

Guardian is not “destroyed”. And there is much more to a guardian than just boons…

Before the patch a thief had nearly no chance against a guardian. Regen+Protection+Retaliation… guardian could just stand still on his GS simbol and the thief would just die…
Now it really depends on the skill of each player.
I can actually think of killing a guardian on my thief now.
And on my guard I actually have to play to kill a thief instead of just waiting for the thief to kill itself.

Oh really? According to anet guardian is all about boons. So how can there be much more to guardian than boons when just about every skill provides them?

Easy, use boons to bolster your playstyle, don’t revolve your playstyle solely around boons. Unless you want to play support Guardian, then your playstyle is buffing your allies lol.

Cloud Stryfe.4058:

Warrior want protection too, what do you thing about it?Givin them protection too make them a lot stronger than us for my opinion in large battle like wvw. Our Hp pool is ridicolous for a melee class…

Honestly, there isn’t anything that they can give warriors that would make me worry about them. If they got protection, like boon hate, it will probably be placed in the most kitten place in their trait tree thus allowing you to ignore any warrior that actually specs for it.

Bacon Please.8407:

Aza.2105:

Bacon Please.8407:

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

No, not true. Guardian can not heal the group for 2k hp x3 with shouts. And warrior probably has better regen with their adrenal health, healing signet and perma regen from banners. Guardian can not provide offensive buffs, warrior can. The banner buffs are huge, guard can’t give the group benefits from: banner of strength, tactics, discipline and defense. Is that not utility?

Even warrior can have a pure of voice like trait with their warhorn:

Quick Breathing Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

vs

Pure of Voice: Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon.

I ask again, what utility is warrior missing over guardian? I know you aren’t asking for a nerf but you have to show actual facts and comparisons. Because looking at the skills, mostly everything guardian does warrior can do it also, albeit a bit differently.

Okay, lets play.

My dodge roll heals for around 1.2-1.4k and I use sigils of energy on both wepon sets so I dodge atleast once every time i switch. So lets say 4 times.

When I switch to staff I can constently spam 12 stacks of might with 100% uptime because of my boon duration build as well as that nice 2.4k heal to the area around me. I switch to Mace Shield to knock enemys away and pop shield for another ~1.2k heal. I haven’t even popped utilities yet. WIth traits I pop my virtue of resolve for another ~2.5k heal. Now I’m selfish and usually use Shelter, but lets say I switch to healing breeze, Don’t even know the heal on this. Hold the Line another 3k In regen because i have so much boon duration and healing power. all the while I am rolling around the battlefield healing everything in my area. Not to mention the retaliation, stability from stand your ground and Save yourself taking All conditions into myself and converting them to boons with pure of voice. After all that I popped renewed focus and pop virtues again if needed.

Well, other than support, you are mostly useless. They should probably chain CC you when your stability is down and then kill everyone around you.

timidobserver.7925:

Bacon Please.8407:

Aza.2105:

Bacon Please.8407:

I had never mentioned gear anywhere in my analyses. Both as tanks, the Guardian will be able to provide more utility and more heals then the warrior can. You don’t see level 30 fractical groups advertising for tank warriors. That being said. I am not in anyway asking for a nerf to guardian. Me personally, I am asking for a grand master defensive tree trait that procs protection, it seems very surprising to me that warriors don’t have one considering they are heavy armor. I will not take over your forums, this is the guardian forums and I am discussing warriors.

No, not true. Guardian can not heal the group for 2k hp x3 with shouts. And warrior probably has better regen with their adrenal health, healing signet and perma regen from banners. Guardian can not provide offensive buffs, warrior can. The banner buffs are huge, guard can’t give the group benefits from: banner of strength, tactics, discipline and defense. Is that not utility?

Even warrior can have a pure of voice like trait with their warhorn:

Quick Breathing Warhorn skills recharge 20% faster. Warhorn skills convert 1 condition into a boon.

vs

Pure of Voice: Allies affected by shouts convert one condition to a boon.

I ask again, what utility is warrior missing over guardian? I know you aren’t asking for a nerf but you have to show actual facts and comparisons. Because looking at the skills, mostly everything guardian does warrior can do it also, albeit a bit differently.

Okay, lets play.

My dodge roll heals for around 1.2-1.4k and I use sigils of energy on both wepon sets so I dodge atleast once every time i switch. So lets say 4 times.

When I switch to staff I can constently spam 12 stacks of might with 100% uptime because of my boon duration build as well as that nice 2.4k heal to the area around me. I switch to Mace Shield to knock enemys away and pop shield for another ~1.2k heal. I haven’t even popped utilities yet. WIth traits I pop my virtue of resolve for another ~2.5k heal. Now I’m selfish and usually use Shelter, but lets say I switch to healing breeze, Don’t even know the heal on this. Hold the Line another 3k In regen because i have so much boon duration and healing power. all the while I am rolling around the battlefield healing everything in my area. Not to mention the retaliation, stability from stand your ground and Save yourself taking All conditions into myself and converting them to boons with pure of voice. After all that I popped renewed focus and pop virtues again if needed.

Well, other than support, you are mostly useless. They should probably chain CC you when your stability is down and then kill everyone around you.

You are implying I would be the only guardian or support in the group. I have so much stability i hardly ever get CC’d. Please refresh my mind, How is support from one of the best supporting classes useless?

timidobserver.7925:

Honestly, there isn’t anything that they can give warriors that would make me worry about them. If they got protection, like boon hate, it will probably be placed in the most kitten place in their trait tree thus allowing you to ignore any warrior that actually specs for it.

Good, then you’re okay with more buffs then. ;3

CptAurellian.9537:

According to ANet, even condition builds are great for a guardian …

Lol-ed.

@ Topic… warriors shouldn’t have protection + very high hp… wars have access to far more offensive boons/traits. War can suck up damage while pounding away due to the high HP pool. These things free you up to be able to put stats in other places more freely. That’s war’s thing.

Do I think wars need some love? Yes. This just isn’t the right way at all.

Frekittenofuman.5084:

It is not the warrior protection, its the current warrior and thief buffs that destroyed guardian mechanic right now. Guardian was build around boon such as protection and retaltion to mitigate its low damage and hp disadvantage.

Now that thief is able to steal those boons, warriors new trait that increase dmg based on enemy boons and not to mention the larcenous strike and signet of might unblockable status, guardian is definitely feels awful to play after the update and I am kitten at this. Feel like rerolling to thief/warrior now

lol dude, damage warrior is still useless in pvp/wvw, the buffs they got are ridiculous, its like they doing same kitten as before patch…

Frekittenofuman.5084:

It is not the warrior protection, its the current warrior and thief buffs that destroyed guardian mechanic right now. Guardian was build around boon such as protection and retaltion to mitigate its low damage and hp disadvantage.

Now that thief is able to steal those boons, warriors new trait that increase dmg based on enemy boons and not to mention the larcenous strike and signet of might unblockable status, guardian is definitely feels awful to play after the update and I am kitten at this. Feel like rerolling to thief/warrior now

They talked about implementing a sort of boon hate in the SotG to nerf Guardian Supermen. I say just be glad they only gave it to warriors.

Bacon Please.8407:

Okay, lets play.

My dodge roll heals for around 1.2-1.4k and I use sigils of energy on both wepon sets so I dodge atleast once every time i switch. So lets say 4 times.

When I switch to staff I can constently spam 12 stacks of might with 100% uptime because of my boon duration build as well as that nice 2.4k heal to the area around me. I switch to Mace Shield to knock enemys away and pop shield for another ~1.2k heal. I haven’t even popped utilities yet. WIth traits I pop my virtue of resolve for another ~2.5k heal. Now I’m selfish and usually use Shelter, but lets say I switch to healing breeze, Don’t even know the heal on this. Hold the Line another 3k In regen because i have so much boon duration and healing power. all the while I am rolling around the battlefield healing everything in my area. Not to mention the retaliation, stability from stand your ground and Save yourself taking All conditions into myself and converting them to boons with pure of voice. After all that I popped renewed focus and pop virtues again if needed.

So what you are saying is, that guardian is the healer in the game. When its specified the game doesn’t have a trinity. Note, that I’m not disagreeing with what you wrote.

What benefits do you see that warrior has over guardian? In comparison guardian does not damage compared to the warrior counterpart. Nor do they have the mobility, flexibility or versatility. Lately I’ve seen the complaint that warrior needs protection like guardian.

Thing is, they can get protection from other a guardian. Yet a guardian can’t get their hp boosted to the levels of a necromancer and warrior.

P.S

I’ve tried using healing breeze and even with the change its still horrible. Using it is so impractical.