Guild Wars 2

Hah ! Got you ! Bet you thought this would be another generic post about ‘’WARRIORS HAS COOLER STUFF THAN WE DO’’ ! Well, you were wrong.

Why did i bother openning this thread ? Well, if you like something, you should get annoyed when people keep insisting that that thing is trash.

I’m here to tell you, or try to, THAT GUARDIANS ARE NOT, IN ANYWAY, INFERIOR TO WARRIORS. Comparing them and saying one is better than the other is just like comparing apples and pears. They are different, they are used for different situations.

A Guardian has a very large boon/healing pool, combined with awesome SUSTAINED dps. A Warrior in the other hand, has a big burst, combined with a not-that-high survivability.

You may say that warriors have stronger traits, and that MIGHT be true BUT, if we look at the big picture, you’ll see the cake is a lie ! Guardian traits have a great synergy, just take a deep look into it and you can make it work. It just requires more thinking.

If you say symbols are useless, im gonna say you just dont know how to place them. The symbols arent something to be used as a burst skill. It’s a counter burst. You gotta place it when you know youre gonna get your kitten kittened OR you can time it with a stun/immobilize to deal high ammounts of damage. The symbol isnt going to help you surviving. Thits going to help you to outdamage your opponent’s burst.

Guardians have only 1 flaw, which are the 1 handeds. But that’s my personal opinion. Sword feels kinda sloopy for PvP and so does Scepter.

Virtues ? Hah ! Virtues are so powerfull its even kinda stupid. Such an easy boon source which can provide support to all those around you. Use them to your advantage, dont just pop them all at once.

Again, Warriors aren’t superior to Guardians in ANYWAY. Guardians just require more thinking Honestly to me, the Guardians DO feel like the strongest profession.

Mad because you can’t burst at ranged ? Well, get your kitten into the fight then.

Every thread like this is either:

1.) Guardians are awesome, Warriors suck.

2.) Warriors are awesome, Guardians suck.

A few problems I feel like mentioning:

1.) “Sustained DPS”

Basically, it’s saying that even though you lack burst, your auto-attack spamming deals enough damage. Warriors also have auto-spamming. The people I see claim this the most are the Pow/Tuf/Vit AH builds that hit enemies with a wet noodle.

Actually, both professions can build for burst. The only difference there is that when you build for damage, the Warrior is high risk/reward while the Guardian’s is overall less but easier to land. For example, Mighty Blow vs Eviscerate. 100b vs Whirling Wrath.

The only time this argument has validity is when you have an offensive Guardian with the Sword or Greatsword, or a Hammer in PvE

2.) “Guardian traits are fine. Learn to think”. Poor logic.

3.) Your claims about symbols can be true, but not always. You’re basically just describing how to use symbols when someone attacks you in melee. In other words, you’re saying that symbols aren’t bad, because you should use them when someone walks next to you.

Actually, I agree that symbols are mostly fine the way they are, but I think they could use more utility options for area control.

3.) “Guardians have only 1 flaw”. In other words, “everything about Guardians is perfect the way it is except 1h weapons”. First, 1h weapons can be quite good depending on the build and the usage. Second, I probably shouldn’t even go on as you basically lose credibility by this statement.

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

5.) You say Warriors aren’t superior to Guardians in any way whatsoever. How about offensive buffing? Burst? Ranged damage? Burst healing?

6.) You basically say that if you don’t also think Guardians are completely superior to Warriors, then you must not be able to handle the Guardian since they require more thinking.

7.) Not every situation is favorable to be in melee, in fact many ensure almost instant death. In addition, your logic is flawed. For example, imagine if you had a profession that dealt damage to itself and healed enemies when attacking. By your logic, ArenaNet doesn’t need to change that, and anyone playing that profession should just not attack. You’re basically saying that it doesn’t matter if something is unbalanced, the players should just deal with it.

Alarox.4590:

Every thread like this is either:

1.) Guardians are awesome, Warriors suck.

2.) Warriors are awesome, Guardians suck.

Both are awesome but they also really suck

Indure.5410:

Alarox.4590:

Every thread like this is either:

1.) Guardians are awesome, Warriors suck.

2.) Warriors are awesome, Guardians suck.

Both are awesome but they also really suck

I like both, and they both can kick kitten but yeah they both suffer. They’re both seen as OP because of their most popular builds. Guardians run AH, people say the entire profession is OP. Warriors run GS/axe or Rifle burst, people say the entire profession is OP.

Alarox.4590:

Every thread like this is either:

1.) Guardians are awesome, Warriors suck.

2.) Warriors are awesome, Guardians suck.

---

A few problems I feel like mentioning (which will likely be replied to with either a sweeping generalization in an attempt to invalidate my specific arguments, or equally flawed statements).

1.) “Sustained DPS”

Basically, it’s saying that even though you lack burst, your auto-attack spamming deals enough damage. Warriors also have auto-spamming. The people I see claim this the most are the Pow/Tuf/Vit AH builds that hit enemies with a wet noodle.

Actually, both professions can build for burst. The only difference there is that when you build for damage, the Warrior is high risk/reward while the Guardian’s is overall less but easier to land. For example, Mighty Blow vs Eviscerate. 100b vs Whirling Wrath.

The only time this argument has validity is when you have an offensive Guardian with the Sword or Greatsword, or a Hammer in PvE

2.) “Guardian traits are fine. Learn to think”. Poor logic.

3.) Your claims about symbols can be true, but not always. You’re basically just describing how to use symbols when someone attacks you in melee. In other words, you’re saying that symbols aren’t bad, because you should use them when someone walks next to you.

Actually, I agree that symbols are mostly fine the way they are, but I think they could use more utility options for area control.

3.) “Guardians have only 1 flaw”. In other words, “everything about Guardians is perfect the way it is except 1h weapons”. First, 1h weapons can be quite good depending on the build and the usage. Second, I probably shouldn’t even go on as you basically lose credibility by this statement.

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

5.) You say Warriors aren’t superior to Guardians in any way whatsoever. How about offensive buffing? Burst? Ranged damage? Burst healing?

6.) You basically say that if you don’t also think Guardians are completely superior to Warriors, then you must not be able to handle the Guardian since they require more thinking.

7.) Not every situation is favorable to be in melee, in fact many ensure almost instant death. In addition, your logic is flawed. For example, imagine if you had a profession that dealt damage to itself and healed enemies when attacking. By your logic, ArenaNet doesn’t need to change that, and anyone playing that profession should just not attack. You’re basically saying that it doesn’t matter if something is unbalanced, the players should just deal with it.

1) What i said on firsthand is far from true in PvP indeed, when you’re into PvP, you wont sit and dps one target for a long time. Don’t get me wrong, i agree totally with you here. Indeed it was a bad way to express myself, maybe simply because i thought it was too obvious to mention it.

2) The Guardian traits are indeed fine. There are kittenloads of posts around the forum that are saying that Warriors have THIS trait that is better than our version of it.

3) Being able to lock somebody on your symbol from ranged would make it simply far too overpower. Symbols are fine the way they are. Guardian isn’t meant to be a ranged class, at this point it should be evident to everyone.

3) Sword and Scepter do have some serious flaws.

4) I never said i didn’t think so. People claim that virtues are too weak when they can provide great changes on the battle, be it solo or group.

5) Gap closers, Mediations. Warrior’s burst, as you said yourself, is easier to avoid than ours, that should make us even, no ?

6) They shine in different areas. I’m secure of my skill with the Guardian, i’m saying both classes have different playstyles. >TO ME<, again, TO ME, the Guardian feels stronger because of the fact it suits me better.

7) I won’t bother replying that. Dealing with it is better than QQing at the forums about it.

“Comparing them and saying one is better than the other is just like comparing apples and pears. They are different, they are used for different situations.” used for different situations? Lolls.

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

nikko.1908:

“Comparing them and saying one is better than the other is just like comparing apples and pears. They are different, they are used for different situations.” used for different situations? Lolls.

We are the apples <3

Archer.1658:

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-is-why-your-WARRIOR-SUCK-Part-1/

Alarox.4590:

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

LOL, excuse me while I spam all 3 of my Virtues to buff my allies and burn mobs, heal 2/3rds of my health via Altruistic Healing, and then block for 3 seconds with with Renewed Focus and get my virtues back.

While the above is true, I still don’t think it’s overpowered, since to actually build for this, you have to sacrifice power and HP generally, to have enough crit and the right traits to make an AH build viable. Someone saying Virtues are OP out of the gate is kinda stupid, IMO.

Also, traited right, there’s no reason not to pop them all at once, especially in a group event. That’s a group heal, a group aegis, mob burning, and with AH, a solid self heal. Also, with 5 in virtues, it grants might, protection, aegis, and regen.

Tomkatt.1684:

Alarox.4590:

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

LOL, excuse me while I spam all 3 of my Virtues to buff my allies and burn mobs, heal 2/3rds of my health via Altruistic Healing, and then block for 3 seconds with with Renewed Focus and get my virtues back.

I was pointing out that he said that, not that I think that.

Alarox.4590:

Tomkatt.1684:

Alarox.4590:

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

LOL, excuse me while I spam all 3 of my Virtues to buff my allies and burn mobs, heal 2/3rds of my health via Altruistic Healing, and then block for 3 seconds with with Renewed Focus and get my virtues back.

I was pointing out that he said that, not that I think that.

Try fighting without using your virtues, they make a huge difference.

On paper the Warrior certainly seems to be stronger (I have an 80 Warrior and an 80 Guardian) but in practice it just doesnt work out that way. When I’m in WvW/sPvP I’m ALWAYS happy to run into a Warrior because they’re a free kill. Definitely the easiest profession to face as a Guardian.

Why? I have no idea, but that’s the way it seems to go.

I’m being completely serious when I say, someone please tell me what about Warriors makes them difficult to beat?

I love that Warriors and Guardians have completely different play styles. However, I find that Warriors not only have far superior ranged effectiveness, they also have better means of keeping targets in (and out) of melee range. Guardians, who have a far more stationary fighting style, have a more difficult time making their sustained damage effective as they have essentially zero snares unless they gimp their build a bit. I would accept the lack of ranged options if the melee options allowed us to hold targets in melee better.

I don’t want to derail this into a snare discussion, I made a thread on it, you’ve probably read it already but here it is if anyone is interested in discussing it further.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Comparison-of-soldier-s-melee-effectiveness/first

Sorem.9157:

Alarox.4590:

Tomkatt.1684:

Alarox.4590:

4.) You basically say that Virtues are overpowered, if you don’t think so too then you must be an idiot who spams them all at once.

LOL, excuse me while I spam all 3 of my Virtues to buff my allies and burn mobs, heal 2/3rds of my health via Altruistic Healing, and then block for 3 seconds with with Renewed Focus and get my virtues back.

I was pointing out that he said that, not that I think that.

Try fighting without using your virtues, they make a huge difference.

I never said I think virtues are ineffective.

Sorem.9157:

Archer.1658:

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-is-why-your-WARRIOR-SUCK-Part-1/

That guy is just ranting about how he sucks.

Warriors:
Amazing Burst
Capability of being an awesome team support through shouts/banners
Range Options

Guardian:
Self Healing through AH, MH or stacking clerics with staff
Medicare Damage at best
No Range Options
Usually playstyle as team support

Do go on.

Sorem.9157:

1) What i said on firsthand is far from true in PvP indeed, when you’re into PvP, you wont sit and dps one target for a long time. Don’t get me wrong, i agree totally with you here. Indeed it was a bad way to express myself, maybe simply because i thought it was too obvious to mention it.

2) The Guardian traits are indeed fine. There are kittenloads of posts around the forum that are saying that Warriors have THIS trait that is better than our version of it.

3) Being able to lock somebody on your symbol from ranged would make it simply far too overpower. Symbols are fine the way they are. Guardian isn’t meant to be a ranged class, at this point it should be evident to everyone.

3) Sword and Scepter do have some serious flaws.

4) I never said i didn’t think so. People claim that virtues are too weak when they can provide great changes on the battle, be it solo or group.

5) Gap closers, Mediations. Warrior’s burst, as you said yourself, is easier to avoid than ours, that should make us even, no ?

6) They shine in different areas. I’m secure of my skill with the Guardian, i’m saying both classes have different playstyles. >TO ME<, again, TO ME, the Guardian feels stronger because of the fact it suits me better.

7) I won’t bother replying that. Dealing with it is better than QQing at the forums about it.

Not this type of thread again… oh well I guess I will bite.

2)Guardian Traits are NOT fine. When it is almost mandatory from a defensive and offensive standpoint to spec 30 into a trait line for almost every build, its an issue.

3) Yes, because having that symbol do 1 tick of damage is worth wasting your time to even cast it… Symbols are weak because we have almost zero ways to keep people inside them. Both allies and enemies for that fact. Also, as far as not being meant to be ranged, I can understand, however, that doesn’t help the fact that we have limited ways to keep people next to us without using long cooldowns.

3-2) Scepter could use a boost, I still argue that Sword is OK as is, (though it COULD use a little more damage on the #2 ability) But this is coming from someone who has pretty much focused on making builds around the 1h sword.

4) This once again comes down to traits. Virtues can be very strong when traited for them. Sadly the only way you can get into virtues far enough to make a difference is with a bunker build. I don’t think I have seen any DPS builds that have been able to go past 5 in virtues without sacrificing a ton of damage. And this all comes back to requiring the 30 in valor.

5) This I would say is off. In some cases yes, warriors have a harder time landing burst because it is honestly very predictable. quickness + 100b is so common its kind of sickening so most good players watch for it. However I would say that warriors do have an easier time landing attacks because of their amount of control through cripples, knockdowns and immobilizes. Something we lack desperately. Gap closers and whatnot are fine, but even if you leap of faith into a WW, that person is still running fast enough to make you miss almost all of the attack.

Overall I think Both classes do have their own unique feel and gameplay, and each can hold their own. The issue is that for an almost strictly melee class, guardians just don’t have the skills to keep up and keep damage on people. This is also an issue with us having zero ranged options as well.

Our Zeal traits are so poor it’s hardly imaginable. +5%dmg with GS while warriors have +10% plus a spear. Our grandmaster Zeal traits shouldn’t even be master, they’re so bad. Give me better Zeal/Radiance trait, playing with AH is just too boring but there’s no reason to go for 30 Zeal and 30 Radiance unless you run with 1h weapon.

I mean, if most things didn’t boil down to a dodge + dps = win type mechanic, then Guardians would stand out more. FOTM did a good job at that. Also, I highly disagree with Warriors being good at WvW/sPvP. Faced many warriors during my time, and it’s seriously a faceroll because they pretty much can’t survive worth anything. Given a shield, it gets a little more rough, but they don’t have ranged options anymore. It’s either GS/rifleorlongbow or GS/Axe&Shield one switching between cripples+ranging+kiting+bursting and meleeing+tanking+bursting. Regardless, my setup can literally outlast them no matter what the case. Warriors suck except for speeding up dps-based dungeons.

And yes, I’d choose my warrior anyday to COF p1 just for efficiency! And maybe skirmishing and bursting down inexperienced players, but if I ever want to play competitively, guard always.

Archer.1658:

Sorem.9157:

Archer.1658:

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-is-why-your-WARRIOR-SUCK-Part-1/

That guy is just ranting about how he sucks.

Warriors:
Amazing Burst
Capability of being an awesome team support through shouts/banners
Range Options

Guardian:
Self Healing through AH, MH or stacking clerics with staff
Medicare Damage at best
No Range Options
Usually playstyle as team support

Do go on.

Threads like these are silly, but I have to respond to this. Most warriors who have “amazing burst” are as tough as a sheet of tissue paper and are a hindrance in most dungeons. I will admit that warriors give awesome offensive buffs.

As for guardians. Guardians can give a melee group permanent protection, stability, aegis, regen, condition removal… you get the picture. Guardians bring the defensive boons that are critical to a dungeon group. Also, the statement about having “mediocre damage at best” is so far from the truth it’s silly. It all depends on the build that the player is rolling with. Guardians can spec for very good damage output while still having more survivability than a warrior. Remember that dead dps = no dps.

kidbs.8920:

Archer.1658:

Sorem.9157:

Archer.1658:

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-is-why-your-WARRIOR-SUCK-Part-1/

That guy is just ranting about how he sucks.

Warriors:
Amazing Burst
Capability of being an awesome team support through shouts/banners
Range Options

Guardian:
Self Healing through AH, MH or stacking clerics with staff
Medicare Damage at best
No Range Options
Usually playstyle as team support

Do go on.

Threads like these are silly, but I have to respond to this. Most warriors who have “amazing burst” are as tough as a sheet of tissue paper and are a hindrance in most dungeons. I will admit that warriors give awesome offensive buffs.

As for guardians. Guardians can give a melee group permanent protection, stability, aegis, regen, condition removal… you get the picture. Guardians bring the defensive boons that are critical to a dungeon group. Also, the statement about having “mediocre damage at best” is so far from the truth it’s silly. It all depends on the build that the player is rolling with. Guardians can spec for very good damage output while still having more survivability than a warrior. Remember that dead dps = no dps.

Guardians can’t do permanent protection, stability, aegis, regen, or condition removal… You can have a little bit of all of those things or a lot of one of those things (maybe two) but at that point you have sacrificed any semblance of damage. And how on earth do you see guardians doing great damage? A guardian will never do the damage of the warrior but to get even close has to give up all forms of survivability. Guardians have the smallest health pool tied with elementalists. Warriors get a huge health pool to make default survivability. Guardians get aegis once every 40 seconds. My friend plays a warrior a lot (his main 80) and he has a lot of survivability while also still maintaining much higher damage than I can burst when I go 70% damage, 30% defense.

I still say Guardians are the best.

Come at me.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

It’s either GS/rifleorlongbow or GS/Axe&Shield one switching between cripples+ranging+kiting+bursting and meleeing+tanking+bursting. Regardless, my setup can literally outlast them no matter what the case. Warriors suck except for speeding up dps-based dungeons.

If that’s the only weapon combo’s you’re using in things like WvW or PvP, you’re doing in wrong. Hammer anyone? Knock down, knock back, stun on adrenaline, cripple and weakness with a fairly strong auto attack. Way better than GS. Stick the sigil with 30% chill chance on crit and run knights armour and you’ve got a winner.

Hammer/rifle is my warrior preference.

Like both classes anyway though, so there.
Also, Guardian is absolutely fine IMO. Very strong class when done right.

DaedalusDragon.3754:

kidbs.8920:

Archer.1658:

Sorem.9157:

Archer.1658:

Warrior is better in every aspect besides FOTM. Prove me wrong.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/This-is-why-your-WARRIOR-SUCK-Part-1/

That guy is just ranting about how he sucks.

Warriors:
Amazing Burst
Capability of being an awesome team support through shouts/banners
Range Options

Guardian:
Self Healing through AH, MH or stacking clerics with staff
Medicare Damage at best
No Range Options
Usually playstyle as team support

Do go on.

Threads like these are silly, but I have to respond to this. Most warriors who have “amazing burst” are as tough as a sheet of tissue paper and are a hindrance in most dungeons. I will admit that warriors give awesome offensive buffs.

As for guardians. Guardians can give a melee group permanent protection, stability, aegis, regen, condition removal… you get the picture. Guardians bring the defensive boons that are critical to a dungeon group. Also, the statement about having “mediocre damage at best” is so far from the truth it’s silly. It all depends on the build that the player is rolling with. Guardians can spec for very good damage output while still having more survivability than a warrior. Remember that dead dps = no dps.

Guardians can’t do permanent protection, stability, aegis, regen, or condition removal… You can have a little bit of all of those things or a lot of one of those things (maybe two) but at that point you have sacrificed any semblance of damage. And how on earth do you see guardians doing great damage? A guardian will never do the damage of the warrior but to get even close has to give up all forms of survivability. Guardians have the smallest health pool tied with elementalists. Warriors get a huge health pool to make default survivability. Guardians get aegis once every 40 seconds. My friend plays a warrior a lot (his main 80) and he has a lot of survivability while also still maintaining much higher damage than I can burst when I go 70% damage, 30% defense.

Guardians can easily keep up permanent protection with no loss of damage. I didn’t say they could do everything in that list permanently.

My guardian has 15.5k hp, 2.6k armor, over 3k attack, 50% crit and 91% crit damage. I heal myself every time I crit and heal for even more if more people are around me. I can use aegis twice thanks to my elite, and add more blocking simply by switching weapons. My auto attack chain crits for 2k, 2k+, 3.2k+ on heavy armor. Lighter armor classes can be hit even harder. I don’t have to rely on a gimmicky attack that roots me and pray that it doesn’t miss. On top of this I can keep up 20 seconds of retaliation to make sure anyone attacking me is also hurting themselves.

A warriors HP pool does not mitigate as much damage as a guardians defenses or healing. Over the course of a dungeon I would be very surprised if a warrior actually does more damage than a proper 2h dps spec guardian considering how much time warriors spend in a downed state doing no dps.

Bakitten291:

Sorem.9157:

1) What i said on firsthand is far from true in PvP indeed, when you’re into PvP, you wont sit and dps one target for a long time. Don’t get me wrong, i agree totally with you here. Indeed it was a bad way to express myself, maybe simply because i thought it was too obvious to mention it.

2) The Guardian traits are indeed fine. There are kittenloads of posts around the forum that are saying that Warriors have THIS trait that is better than our version of it.

3) Being able to lock somebody on your symbol from ranged would make it simply far too overpower. Symbols are fine the way they are. Guardian isn’t meant to be a ranged class, at this point it should be evident to everyone.

3) Sword and Scepter do have some serious flaws.

4) I never said i didn’t think so. People claim that virtues are too weak when they can provide great changes on the battle, be it solo or group.

5) Gap closers, Mediations. Warrior’s burst, as you said yourself, is easier to avoid than ours, that should make us even, no ?

6) They shine in different areas. I’m secure of my skill with the Guardian, i’m saying both classes have different playstyles. >TO ME<, again, TO ME, the Guardian feels stronger because of the fact it suits me better.

7) I won’t bother replying that. Dealing with it is better than QQing at the forums about it.

Not this type of thread again… oh well I guess I will bite.

2)Guardian Traits are NOT fine. When it is almost mandatory from a defensive and offensive standpoint to spec 30 into a trait line for almost every build, its an issue.

3) Yes, because having that symbol do 1 tick of damage is worth wasting your time to even cast it… Symbols are weak because we have almost zero ways to keep people inside them. Both allies and enemies for that fact. Also, as far as not being meant to be ranged, I can understand, however, that doesn’t help the fact that we have limited ways to keep people next to us without using long cooldowns.

3-2) Scepter could use a boost, I still argue that Sword is OK as is, (though it COULD use a little more damage on the #2 ability) But this is coming from someone who has pretty much focused on making builds around the 1h sword.

4) This once again comes down to traits. Virtues can be very strong when traited for them. Sadly the only way you can get into virtues far enough to make a difference is with a bunker build. I don’t think I have seen any DPS builds that have been able to go past 5 in virtues without sacrificing a ton of damage. And this all comes back to requiring the 30 in valor.

5) This I would say is off. In some cases yes, warriors have a harder time landing burst because it is honestly very predictable. quickness + 100b is so common its kind of sickening so most good players watch for it. However I would say that warriors do have an easier time landing attacks because of their amount of control through cripples, knockdowns and immobilizes. Something we lack desperately. Gap closers and whatnot are fine, but even if you leap of faith into a WW, that person is still running fast enough to make you miss almost all of the attack.

Overall I think Both classes do have their own unique feel and gameplay, and each can hold their own. The issue is that for an almost strictly melee class, guardians just don’t have the skills to keep up and keep damage on people. This is also an issue with us having zero ranged options as well.

I won’t bother argueing with somebody who can’t use the tools they have. It’ll be like talking to a wall. Lol.

Bakitten291:

The issue is that for an almost strictly melee class, guardians just don’t have the skills to keep up and keep damage on people. This is also an issue with us having zero ranged options as well.

I’m not entirely sure why people just ignore this point and say, “We have lots of boons! We have lots of heals! Lalalalala!”.

When a Guardian’s build isn’t built specifically for burst damage, no knockdown, pull, ward or immobilise is going to keep the targets in melee range for long enough and even then….

Sorem.9157:

I won’t bother argueing with somebody who can’t use the tools they have. It’ll be like talking to a wall. Lol.

Im sorry but how does that make any sense? I countered points that you made with my own, and pointed out flaws that I felt there are in the guardian’s gameplay. Im not sure how I “cant use the tools we have” even comes into play with this.

There are 2 big issues the guardian class faces. One is our lack of snares for a melee class. Loading one weapon up on CC like they did Hammer is not the way it should have been done, as it forces people to go to a single weapon for it. As far as CC with other weapons, the only other ones are GS #5, which becomes useless outside 600 yards, even if you originally land it, and Scepter immobilize, which is as I stated, on a broken weapon. Other than that we have the Hammer SW, which is useless now, Bane signet, which I use, and signet of Wrath, which is a HORRIBLE signet. Even if you were to run all these at once, you would be gimping your damage very badly. On a bunker build that might be fine, but for the damage builds that need it the most, it just does not work.

The other is our trait diversity. You said that traits are fine, but they really are not. Maybe in respect to single traits you can pick, but as far as full lines not so much. Zeal is a dead line for the most part. GS heals as a grandmaster trait are too weak, the spirit weapon traits are now all wasted, even more so that one is a grandmaster, and was a horrible grand master to begin with. Other than that there are maybe 3 viable traits in the entire line that you might actually consider.

Radiance comes close to suffering the same fate, but is luckily saved by a great 25 point trait, and right hand strength for 1h builds. if you run a 2h build you never go 30 into it.

Valor is honestly our biggest issue trait line though, but in the complete opposite direction. It is too strong, and required for almost every single build we have. 300 tougness, 30% crit damage, 2 of the best self heals we have. (selfless daring being the other when running a HP build) And a ton of useful talents.

Honor Is in a good place I feel, as it is meant to be the support line, and does well on that with symbol healing, selfless daring, and other support options.

Virtues I think could use a bit of a change. Defensively it is another good line, but offensively It feels lacking. the VoJ traits are kinda weak compared to things like stun break on VoC use, and 3x condition removal for the entire party on VoR use. The only offensive utility we get out of the tree is mostly the retaliation, which is a lazy boon that needs some changes anyways. Though, I feel virtues might also be lacking offensively because it is impossible to run to far into it with an offensive build. with 30 in valor being a must, it really limits virtues down because alot of the other points will need to go into radiance to up our crit chance and pick up things like blind exposure or the 25 point talent, and most DPS builds go at least 10 into zeal for extra damage on burning targets. that leaves only 5-15 points depending on how heavy you go into them, which is not enough to come close to the dps orriented talents.

I don’t really understand how mentioning faults of the class is not being able to use the tools we have, when half the tools we have are broken or poorly implemented. Don’t get me wrong, the class can work and be good, the issue is that to do so, we are very limited on what we can and can not use.

Warriors have more readily viable builds. Warriors have (way) more damage potential. Warriors have far more viable weapon and trait options. Warrior survival can be absolutely insane if built for, primarily through the use of healing shouts and banners.

Guardian survival can be absolutely insane if built for. I don’t see any issue with either the sword or scepter. Virtues are, in fact, miserably weak unless traited for.

On paper, Warriors are superior to Guardians. In practice, when’s the last time I actually shivered in my bootsies when I saw an enemy Warrior (…or Guardian) on the field?

Just my two copper.

I completely agree with Chris. I roam in WvW everyday, and during the time I played my thief, mesmer, necro, ele or guardian, I was never afraid of losing against a warrior roamer, and I really never have, unless the warrior had friends coming along.

Sorem.9157:

Symbols are fine the way they are.

They are really not. I won’t bother explaining why because it has been mentioned a dozen of times on forums. If you choose to stay ignorant that’s alright, but if you intend to come out big on forums please do get your facts straight.

Sorem.9157:

Guardian isn’t meant to be a ranged class, at this point it should be evident to everyone.

I see this in nearly every thread like this one. Seriously, where do people pick up lines like this?! Are you a profession designer at ANet? No? Then stop making up stuff like that.

If my memory still serves me right towards the end of the betas one of the devs made it clear that they had a viable ranged option in their minds but it didn’t make it live because they had to focus on release.

Sorem.9157:

Dealing with it is better than QQing at the forums about it.

Then deal with the fact that most of your claims simply don’t hold true (or that we are all wrong, which is what your posts suggest anyway) and continue playing while the rest of us who can see through the nice things at being a guardian actually try to improve the areas where guardians clearly lack.

EDIT: Errors.

Christos de Soufre.3802:

Warriors have more readily viable builds. Warriors have (way) more damage potential. Warriors have far more viable weapon and trait options. Warrior survival can be absolutely insane if built for, primarily through the use of healing shouts and banners.

Guardian survival can be absolutely insane if built for. I don’t see any issue with either the sword or scepter. Virtues are, in fact, miserably weak unless traited for.

On paper, Warriors are superior to Guardians. In practice, when’s the last time I actually shivered in my bootsies when I saw an enemy Warrior (…or Guardian) on the field?

Just my two copper.

There you go, this is my point and it’s what i was wishing for everybody to underestand. I don’t care if you think this or that thing are weak and i see it otherwise, or i find something weak and you love it. It’s all a matter of taste.

What i am tired to see are posts about separated things that the Guardian have being compared to another separated thing that the Warrior has. It annoys me for some reason. I haven’t lost for a Warrior for so long. Whatever anyone prefer isn’t my business, really. What i wanted to point out is that Guardian is really strong, and if you want to play it at it’s full potential you shouldn’t spend your time comparing it to the Warrior. Because if you look at the individual skills/traits you will think that the Warrior is indeed a stronger class. Which really isn’t true.

A great example of your traits synergy is Vigorous Precision, Selfless Daring and Elusive Power. Everything combines and i can’t see that on the Warrior traits. Stuff that you can actually built up to work together in order to get max benefits out of it.

Razor.9132:

Sorem.9157:

Symbols are fine the way they are.

They are really not. I won’t bother explaining why because it has been mentioned a dozen of times on forums. If you choose to stay ignorant that’s alright, but if you intend to come out big on forums please do get your facts straight.

Sorem.9157:

Guardian isn’t meant to be a ranged class, at this point it should be evident to everyone.

I see this in nearly every thread like this one. Seriously, where do people pick up lines like this?! Are you a profession designer at ANet? No? Then stop making up stuff like that.

If my memory still serves me right towards the end of the betas one of the devs made it clear that they had a viable ranged option in their minds but it didn’t make it live because they had to focus on release.

Sorem.9157:

Dealing with it is better than QQing at the forums about it.

Then deal with the fact that most of your claims simply don’t hold true (or that we are all wrong, which is what your posts suggest anyway) and continue playing while the rest of us who can see through the nice things at being a guardian actually try to improve the areas where guardians clearly lack.

EDIT: Errors.

I’ll say it again, overall, the Guardian is fine the way it is right now. If you buff it, it would turn out to be an Overpowered profession, and if you nerf it, well, it would turn out weak.

Thats why you dont nerf or buff things you fix them. The mechanics of things are what need to be adjusted, then you fix the numbers to tune for the changes. It isnt just a “buff me nerf them!” arguement. Its a “please make this usable at the least” one.

Like Pure of Voice. Make that usable.

Well, MORE usable.

I feel guardians are in a good place, but I think a few things need to be looked at:

• Symbols are Larger, Honor tree – I personally think is should be the default, symbols are ridiculously small without traiting. Also the trait to make symbols last longer could use a slight buff, IMO.

• Zeal tree sucks. I’ve never had a reason to take more than 10 points in it, and I’ve tried. It’s not that it’s completely inferior to other trees, but moreso that the traits in Zeal just don’t synergize well with traits in other trees. There are simply better options elsewhere even at the 5 and 10 point level, let alone deeper in the tree.

• Spirit weapons suck. They had potential, but they suck, and now they suck worse than ever.