Guild Wars 2

Keelin.5781:

Shimond.2478:

People seem to have this idea that all classes should be able to do the same things. I don’t.

I kinda remember A.Net mentioning that they do in fact want everyone to be viable in every situation. This is why the trinity is gone.

Giving guardians a viable ranged weapon hardly means that all classes should be the same. It simply means that guardians would have a viable ranged weapon.

Who’s to say that it wouldn’t fit in with the rest of the guardian?
It would probably end up with a fair amount of support skills on it.

Limiting classes to a certain range in a game like this is simply bad.
If you honestly think that i should have less fun in WvW because of my class choice then i don’t know what to tell you.

This should be stickied.

Spirit Bow.Just make it so that it spawns a usable spirit bow with special attacks we could use when range issues arise.The elementalist is a ranged powerhouse and yet they can conjure a frost bow.

This would allow the guardian to be able to bring more to the table than just a slow moving orb of watch me get dodged.

Or dare i say it,rework 2 handed hammer into a Thor like weapon with ranged attacks,the way 2 handed hammer is now is a joke.

Engine.7936:

Spirit Bow.Just make it so that it spawns a usable spirit bow with special attacks we could use when range issues arise.The elementalist is a ranged powerhouse and yet they can conjure a frost bow.

This would allow the guardian to be able to bring more to the table than just a slow moving orb of watch me get dodged.

Or dare i say it,rework 2 handed hammer into a Thor like weapon with ranged attacks,the way 2 handed hammer is now is a joke.

I would actually love either of those (spirit bow like the ele weapon conjures, or the thor hammer)

Too bad the devs dont seem to care at all about fixing the range issue on guardians, all they care about is making dungeons impossible and ruining any sort of ability to farm with diminished rewards

Oh, oh, Spear…I miss my GW1 Spear chucker

For all those who say a longbow wouldnt fit with the soldier/paladin feel of the guardian i found some pictures of heavily armored fantasy archers.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs26/f/2008/080/6/3/elf_archer_by_EternalLordsTeam.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs16/i/2007/163/c/5/The_Mercenary_by_alanlathwell.jpg
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/222/9/e/9e4701785ae03b551805d3a01a7b47f4-d462vlk.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/168/2/3/The_Raven_Tide_by_ukitakumuki.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/214/0/9/098bef4d763258419c5a365f4b8c3f76-d42gbms.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2007/221/3/9/The_Archer_by_RainfeatherPearl.jpg
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/143/6/4/the_archer_by_leadheavy-d50vftb.jpg

Crossbows, please.

Aoe, immobilize, and with the torch a nice one target hit and aoe burning, with the spirit hammer as a knockdown and if you’d like the sword for additional damage or aoe, of course you will be doing more damage against burning foes.

put a nice something in both weapons and you can add some other nice effects.

works well in PvE, even though I prefer the greatsword, has a nicer skin. In PvP add a signet and you have 3 stoppers, just to make sure.

it’s quite alright from a gameplay point of view I’d say. And regarding the “personality” of a guardian, it kind of works better for me than the idea of a bow…

Gotta say though, it looks weird on taller races than Asura

Ang.2157:

For all those who say a longbow wouldnt fit with the soldier/paladin feel of the guardian i found some pictures of heavily armored fantasy archers.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs26/f/2008/080/6/3/elf_archer_by_EternalLordsTeam.jpg
http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs16/i/2007/163/c/5/The_Mercenary_by_alanlathwell.jpg
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/222/9/e/9e4701785ae03b551805d3a01a7b47f4-d462vlk.jpg
http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs11/i/2006/168/2/3/The_Raven_Tide_by_ukitakumuki.jpg
http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/214/0/9/098bef4d763258419c5a365f4b8c3f76-d42gbms.jpg
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs17/f/2007/221/3/9/The_Archer_by_RainfeatherPearl.jpg
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/143/6/4/the_archer_by_leadheavy-d50vftb.jpg

Those are Warriors, man, not Guardians.

Just put some blue flames on them and they become guardians.

My point is that you don’t have to wear leather and leaf clothes to use ranged weapons.

No conjures, please. We need a real weapon.

Animatus.6197:

Too bad the devs dont seem to care at all about fixing the range issue on guardians, all they care about is making dungeons impossible and
ruining any sort of ability to farm with diminished rewards

You can’t be serious.

To people saying a Longbow/Shortbow/Pistol/Rifle doesn’t fit the Guardian: I haven’t heard a single compelling argument for that case. Just saying it doesn’t feel/look right doesn’t do it.
Guardians are divine (okay, their powers doesn’t actually come from Gods, but the archetype is there) warriors. They’re not priests or clerics. They’re fighters. Sure, they adapted their fighting style(s) to protect allies, but in the end of the day, they’re still trained to make sure the enemy has regret their choice to wake up today. They’re soldiers at heart, and they will learn to use a Bow or a Rifle if need be, because it will help them protect their allies and fight the good fight.

Animatus.6197:

Animatus.6197:

Too bad the devs don’t seem to care at all about fixing the range issue on guardians, all they care about is making dungeons impossible and
ruining any sort of ability to farm with diminished rewards

You can’t be serious.

I fear the worst: that he’s not.

Hasteo.6437:

Just increase the range of the scepter, done.

That’s not the problem with it. It’s the slow moving orbs, every other range weapon is instant. Scepter’s orbs are slow.

Also the Scepter is just boring imo.

>>>The only other ranged I want to see is a melee weapon with a chain attached to it.

HELLS YEA! a normal weapon that the Guardian holds as usual, with blue spirit chains appearing when he smashes the enemy’s face with it, then pulls it back and the chains disappear. That should have been our mace! mid-range weapon, with insanely epic animations where do I sign a petition?

If that’s not gonna happen, I agree that we need AT LEAST the elite skill that will give us a powerfull Spirit Bow. For heck’s sake, Ele’s can conjure an enormous-a** flame greatsword as an elite, which they don’t even need that badly. So if you wanna limit the ranged capability of the Guardian – that’s fine, but at least put it on a long cooldown so we can pull it out for some great ranged attacks when needed. Honestly ArenaNet, we are begging you here!

Would love to see the spirit weapons as pickups like the elementaliste have. Cool blueflamed shield, hammer, greatsword or sword and bow. It would be like the bow guy from Bleach.

As for skills on pickup:
1 – auto shoot
2 – ground target nuke
3 – rapid single target fire
4 – spread fire aoe with condition removal
5 – backwards leap with some effect

Powerful but short duration and still a utility. 2min cd. Traitable for spirit wep build.

Million times no, Anet mentioned they made guardians to be more of a Magic Knight to distinguish it from Warrior.

Scepter and Staff is fine, just make them viable with a little tweaking

While the aesthetic of pistol/torch sounds pretty cool, I’m of the opinion we don’t really need to get another weapon. The scepter needs tweaks, mostly to make the auto attack faster and give Smite a slightly longer range. Staff needs to do a little more damage.

I do wish some of our AoEs could reach off keep walls to be sure. But none of our utility skills are built around being ranged, and even if you take the ground targeted consecrates, you wouldn’t be able to get them to work with weapons of long range. We’re designed to be up close or at medium range providing support and damage.

@Chii.2814

Imagine a knight in shining silver armor carrying an inscribed ivory longbow and shooting arrows of pure light.

“Guardian is a Magic Knight and therefor can not used ranged weapons”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samurai Ctrl+f search “weapons” (its down by the bottom)

And, with their spirituality and code of honor that was/is Bushido, the Samurai is a very fitting parallel to the Guardian. (I’m sure SOMEONE will argue this, because this is the internet and people hate being wrong… but really now…) And what weapons did a samurai use? Swords, Longbows, AND Rifles. So take your pick. Personally, I would LOVE to mix a magic class up with some rifle action.

And for those of you that prefer in world explanations, Guardian magic was described as more or less Battle Magic, or “pragmatic”. The thing about being pragmatic is that you find a way to make something work, no matter how “elegant” it may or may not be. Besides, mesmers already have a magic bullet skill, lets just steal their ideas…

Now, as a quick comment to the scepter argument. It has it’s problems, obviously. I think those problems are rooted in the fact that the scepter was originally designed as a mid range weapon, and the devs seem to have gotten stuck in a rut in terms of where they are comfortable taking it. A new weapon offers a chance to start fresh and make a really unique option for long range, but I can agree that just fixing our current options would be acceptable as well.

The guardian needs to always be close enough to allies for his Virtues. As a support guardian I can not describe how awesome it is to Pop an Aegis in a wvw battle and watch my world overcome a huge attack. The longbow would have to great of a range, and would make it very awkward for the guardian to use. We are meant to be in the front lines, meant to protect our allies, or burn our foes. We are ment to be the shield and the sword in battle.
The solution to me is simple, Short Bow!
I know like 12 people are going to fly off the handle and say “Well what pathetic knight is going to run around with a tiny little bow”. Or the “Why is a soldier running around with a dinky short bow?” Normally the short bow seems a weapon designed for speed and range in conjunction. Which is exactly why, to me, it fits the guardian.

When I’ve been playing the guardian, even with a “damage” or “control” or “support” build. It all feels the same. It feels like I am a turtle. I’m slow and ponderous, and when I get to it, Ill hit you hard, or protect my friends, or lock you down. But It takes me a minute, no matter how fast I press the buttons, or casts those spells. It takes a hot second. Sometimes I feel like a turtle…Even a high damage turtle…still a turtle.
The point is, A shortbow gives range and mobility to the guardian without placing it to far, or reducing its utilities to worthless.

I completely would love a longbow, or a Short, or even a crossbow. Even a rifle or pistol would be lovely. At this point I just want one weapon set that makes me feel someone useful in a siege that can really “hit at a range”.I agree more range…But I also think it will be something that will need to wait till more important matters are attended to. Mainly things that are important to the well being of the game, and take anet’s full focus(and that’s good!). One last thing to remember If you add a weapon set, you’ll need traits too! That is a whole new story!

@frostflare I have to say I love the ideas for spells you have created! I hope in the future we see something similar implemented be it with a Shortbow or a Longbow. I’ll be fine with whatever as long as it has a Bow in it’s name

Samurai are more in line with Warriors than with Guardians. As do…those elf things.

Also, I’d say Short Bow over Long Bow, if only because Warriors have a Long Bow, and I want to keep the two classes as seperate as possible. Ranged symbols are fun, laser arrows are fun, but I’d also like to suggest something…Warding-y. Like the Circle or the Line, maybe a Crescent that arcs away from the shooter.

@frostflare Love the idea of your shortbow, though that might part is OP.

Don’t think the range thing is really that big of an issue as people make it sound (Guardian’s have some issues in WvW, but it’s mostly tied to a poor loot system, not the class itself).

Crossbow sounds cool though

I support some change to guardian ranged abilities even if it’s just speeding up the animation of the ball thing.

At this point, I think it would be better for A-net to just buff up the ranged weapons we Guardians currently have.

Suggested changes:

Scepter:
1) Increase projectile speed of autoattack to that of bows. 20% projectile finisher
2) Make Smite pulse every second instead of having random fists deal damage.

Staff:
1) Make autoattack a beam of light that bounces off foes up to 3 times. Inflicts vulnerability to them. (Similar to trident’s autoattack) And increase the range to 1000 (600 is far too low), as well as the damage of the autoattack (the only purpose of the staff atm is to tag mobs in DEs. It’s too weak for any practical fighting).
2) Have skill #2 inflict AoE blind on detonation instead of heal with a 12 sec c/d.
3) Have skill #4 (Empower) channelable while moving.

Sound good? Honestly, it would be much less work to change around some numbers than it is to design a whole new weapon set.

The main problem of scepters is the projectile speed. Its effective 1200 range is totally nullified when chasing an opponent. And once you hit him, you deal almost no damage.

Gonna throw this out there

With the way the shield for guardian functions, it kind of shocks me that there is no ranged spear option like the Paragon especially since the Guardian is obviously a monk / paragon hybrid.

How can people say that it makes more sense for a heavy plate armor soldier to run around with a little wand than a real ranged weapon?

The scepter has been my bread and butter in PvE because I can kite almost anything while slowly whittling down the enemies health. That, however, doesn’t work in PvP or WvW. In those, the idea of ranged weapons for Guardian seems to be simply engaging a fight, harassing, or supporting your allies’ retreat. For these the scepter is almost useless thanks to the slow moving projectiles and abilities that don’t have the capability to do, well… anything. However, using one of the bows would be easy enough since it only needs to have control abilities like the scepter’s 3 and something to use condition damage with, such as an elemental shot charged with magical energy. Aside from that a simple AoE is the only other thing that seems necessary to me.

Of course, a crossbow would be great because…well it’s a crossbow. Plus the crossbow is portable and would easily be carried by a guardian. The slow rate of fire fits the “heavy” design of the Guardian and it doesn’t have a crazy range so the Guardian still fits as the close – mid range profession. Keep the scepter though because it is still hilarious to watch the silly little bolts meander towards the enemy.

Then all we need are polearms. ^_^

Spirit Longbow that shoots out light arrows! YES~!

Ang.2157:

How can people say that it makes more sense for a heavy plate armor soldier to run around with a little wand than a real ranged weapon?

it makes as much sense as why a tiny asura guardian is doing the same amount of hurt as the tallest norn.

Think outside the box, I for one am glad that theres a weird “Magic Knight” class around

I think the scepter could be fixed with a little buff to speed, Or damage. It feels really bad to send out an army of orbs, and yet you do as much damage as you would with the staff….Espeicaly when they are so slow and dodgeable…At least make them hurt a little when they hit.

I do not believe the Staff is truely that bad. It’s designed as the support weapon. It suits its role perfectly. I say that as both an extensive staff guardian(have been useing one since level 10), and as a support guardian. The staff is designed to be a heavy supporter, not damager. I agree there should be a buff in damage, but you have to take into context we do have empower. If you make the staff to strong normaly, buffing it with Empower would make it op. Its thin ice.

But the true point of this topic is to talk about more range options for the guardian. I think a bow, or gun of sorts is the perfect chance to add something to a class that has a lot of based covered. The only one not covered is “decent” ranged options and mobility. Which albeit as a heavy armor proffesion we dont move like theifs. We obviosly have lightspeed travel to a point, yet we have more “Buckle down and defend” abbilites, then “get out of the way” abillites. Which to me needs to be more balanced.

I said I did not balance the skills, and I did not for a reason. Those were just ideas to sort of warm the pot. The idea I had was a manuvarable damage dealer, that suits the guardian at range. But also offers abbilites to get the guardian INTO combat with its other sets. Which arguably do not function so well at a range. At a distance a guardian bombards with shortbow and magic, and when the team needs the extra frontline power, it bursts into combat and raises its weapon.

Ang.2157:

How can people say that it makes more sense for a heavy plate armor soldier to run around with a little wand than a real ranged weapon?

Because the Guardian isn’t the “pure” mundane weapons-master heavy plate armour soldier… that would be the Warrior (feel free to go play one, they’re pretty fun actually). Guardian is the Magic Knight type class, so you get stuck with wands, staves, tridents and very flashy skills. Not to mention all that retaliation and regeneration…

Make the trident usesble on land.

Pleas add a bow as a weapon for guardian anet!

Let’s just make a petition asking for a Bow!

I had an idea for a Trident though, maybe if it is usable on land it can give us some ranged powers similar to what Eles have with their Staff although this may make us a bit OP..Ahh forget it, I just woke up and haven’t had my morning dose of coffee yet! :/

No ways man! Javelins!!

Skills should include:

1) Some kind of basic auto attack that bleeds.

2) Spin Javelin in hands, deflecting any projectiles coming your way.

3) Go into a defensive stance for X amount of time. Any melee characters that hit you will be countered and stunned for 1 second.

4) Knockback!!!

5) Uber powerful javelin throw!!!

LLOLOLOL. forgive my OP imagination

Guardian really need, ranged weapon, as majority of encounters in this game are more range based, and doing with scepter crits for 250, and mine 1 handed sword 1300-1500 crits per hit. Not to mention that scepter is useless in pvp, unless u will use it for immobilize. And any normal player cant be hit by scepter blue balls.

@Varyag.3751

Nor are we battlemages.
Look at this bow, that is what i want for my guardian.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs41/i/2009/034/1/0/Light_Arrow_by_Daniel_Link.jpg

I can’t believe no one brought up Theseus wielding the Epirus Bow from the movie Immortals

That’s so Guardian.

Oh! Check out the Ascalonian Ghosts in Blazeridge Steppes. (I think it’s Blazeridge?) Their archers fire ghostly arrows; it looks fantastic.

Ang.2157

@Varyag.3751

Nor are we battlemages.
Look at this bow, that is what i want for my guardian.

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs41/i/2009/034/1/0/Light_Arrow_by_Daniel_Link.jpg

That’s exactly what I had in mind, except with white/blue to fit the Guardian theme.

All of the guardian’s spirit weapons, except the longbow, are weapons that they can actually wield. If given the longbow, it would really only complement what the guardian already has.

Like that Zelda picture kinda showed, the Longbow Healer/Priest-type Character is a fairly well used archetype in Japanese games/literature. I’m not entirely sure if it’s limited to Japan, but there’s that image of the Longbow as a sort of Spiritual Weapon. In that sense, it fits in that spiritual/magical aspect of the Guardian (not as much the Holy Soldier part).

Of course there’s also that other argument of how the Archer archetype in general is used to show femininity. But that’s another conversation altogether.

Ang.2157

@Varyag.3751
Nor are we battlemages.

What is the functional difference between a “Magic Knight” and a “Battlemage” exactly? Guardian combines martial prowess with magic, seems pretty fitting to have them using magic weapons.

Ang.2157

Look at this bow, that is what i want for my guardian.
http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs41/i/2009/034/1/0/Light_Arrow_by_Daniel_Link.jpg

http://unitedpeople.ucoz.com/_ph/5/2/416340329.jpg

Look at these pollaxes; these are what I want for my Warrior, or some weapon specific to the “weapons class”. But right now there are bigger issues regarding class balance that need to be solved before throwing more weapons and abilities to classes, especially ones that are already some of the best in the game. Poor Elementalists… they need more help than anyone.

With Guardians excellent melee and superior support capabilities it would be overpowered to make them as powerful at ranged combat as their soldier counterpart the Warrior – who lacks the support and defensive abilities of the Guardian. Guess you’ll have to roll Warrior if you want to be a heavily armoured fighter with a bow.

Oh yeah. Poor warriors and their lack of support and defense.
I guess having some of the best sustainable healing on paper isn’t good enough for them.

Here: Get “Vigourous Shouts” and “Lung Capacity” then your 3 shouts with the lowest cooldowns. The base heal will be around 1k but with an almost 1:1 scaling on them you’ll probably end up somewhere around 2.3k giving you around 7k per 24 seconds in addition to the benefits of the shouts.

Or: Go banner support. The scaling on the tactics heal is great. 15k / ~60 sec plus the other benefits of the banners.

You go ahead and build a class cannon guardian for your “excellent” melee and see how long you survive. I’ll wait here…

Scepter is not only THE WORST RANGED WEAPON IN THE GAME, but it is also the most boring weapon you’ll ever use. Go ahead. Take the scepter challenge. Use it for extended periods of time and TELL me that the annoying repetitive whistling sound, useless projectile speed and constant misses don’t make you want to rip your hair out.

It’s just SO bad.

Add new Ranged weapon The Bola 1H.

1. Throw Bola at opponents legs Which cripples for X Seconds
ii. Throw Bola at neck which Bleeds for X Seconds
iii. Throw Bola at arms which applies Vulnerability for X Seconds

2. Throw weighted Bola at opponents legs which cause knockdown for X second/s

3. Throw Explosive Bola at group of opponents hits up to 5 people doing X Damage and causing Burn for X Seconds.

Just a rough idea

Keelin.5781

Oh yeah. Poor warriors and their lack of support and defense.
I guess having some of the best sustainable healing on paper isn’t good enough for them.

Actually, I included Warrior in the category of “some of the best classes in the game”; complaining about Warrior being underpowered or useless is almost as bad as calling Guardian weak or underpowered.

Keelin.5781

You go ahead and build a class cannon guardian for your “excellent” melee and see how long you survive. I’ll wait here…

Reducing yourself to attacking straw men now? That’s poor.

George Steel.1804

Scepter is not only THE WORST RANGED WEAPON IN THE GAME, but it is also the most boring weapon you’ll ever use. Go ahead. Take the scepter challenge. Use it for extended periods of time and TELL me that the annoying repetitive whistling sound, useless projectile speed and constant misses don’t make you want to rip your hair out.

So if you don’t like the weapons used by the class, why did you roll the class in the first place? I agree that sceptres need work, but Guardians don’t need a weapon that doesn’t suit their theme; which is far better known as the Paladin.

Fusion.4905:

Add new Ranged weapon The Bola 1H.

Warrior already has a “Throw Bolas” skill.

Varyag.3751:

With Guardians excellent melee and superior support capabilities it would be overpowered to make them as powerful at ranged combat as their soldier counterpart the Warrior – who lacks the support and defensive abilities of the Guardian.

Varyag.3751:

Reducing yourself to attacking straw men now? That’s poor.

Okay? You claim guardians have “excellent melee” capabilities and “superior support” capabilities yet the warrior can do these things just as well but warriors can have ranged weapons and guardians can’t.

You furthermore claim warriors lack defensive and supportive abilities which is nonsense. They are as capable of supporting as any guardian and they can become just as tanky. They simply have to trait and gear for it – just like guardians.
And then you seem to believe that the guardian can be everything at once – tanky, supporty and yet still do high damage – and that they can’t.

Guardians aren’t a weak class by any standards but if you compare the two classes then do it properly.

Oh hey also – Even D’n’D Paladins could use ranged weapons. I’m not sure which paladin exactly you are comparing guardians to? The WoW ones maybe?

Increase scepter range
Make the #1 skill fly a bit faster
Make it less easily dodgeable