Guild Wars 2

I crit for 2.5k with my scepter auto’s(55% crit chance). And crit 8-12k with my zealots flame(torch). Guardians can deal tons of dmg at range. The only problem is the scepter’s auto-attack projectile travel speed. It has to be faster, cause now you can outrun it with swiftness..

Keelin.5781

Okay? You claim guardians have “excellent melee” capabilities and “superior support” capabilities yet the warrior can do these things just as well but warriors can have ranged weapons and guardians can’t.

A defensive Warrior is not as good as a defensive Guardian, end of story. Guardian’s support abilities ARE superior; Warrior has no access to Protection or Retaliation boons (Warrior can gain retaliation upon being critically hit with a grandmaster trait, but cannot give it to allies), not to mention inferior condition removal and Guardians far greater number of healing skills. Hell, Guardian even has more block skills, their elites are also better.

Warrior isn’t a weak class, but it does lack the variety support options and number of defensive skills that the Guardian does – and rightfully so, the Warrior has more options in regards to weapons and offensive combat.

Keelin.5781

And then you seem to believe that the guardian can be everything at once – tanky, supporty and yet still do high damage – and that they can’t.

No I don’t, no class can do this. Stop putting words in my mouth because I don’t agree that the Guardian should dominate at long range.

shiz.5976

I crit for 2.5k with my scepter auto’s(55% crit chance). And crit 8-12k with my zealots flame(torch). Guardians can deal tons of dmg at range. The only problem is the scepter’s auto-attack projectile travel speed. It has to be faster, cause now you can outrun it with swiftness.

This, period. Guardian doesn’t need to take the Longbow from the few classes that already have it, Orb of Wrath just needs a boost in projectile speed. Once again, if you want a Longbow, roll a Ranger or Warrior, weapons are class-specific for a very good reason.

Keelin.5781

Oh hey also – Even D’n’D Paladins could use ranged weapons. I’m not sure which paladin exactly you are comparing guardians to?

Guardians do use ranged weapons, if you didn’t notice, we have staves, tridents and sceptres. Guardians just aren’t masters of ranged combat – ranged weapons are backups for when the enemy is too far away.

I definitely think they should add a longbow to the Guardian’s arsenal. They can use a spirit bow, so there obviously isn’t any problem, I guess “lore wise”, although this game isn’t like WoW where lore is a GIANT part of it, but it still matters. I think the guy who posted about the slingshot was spot on for the auto-attack, but implement it into longbow instead. Maybe make the longbow arrows teleport or fire light, and give it a short cast time, make the second one fire a stronger arrow/light beam, and make the third have an AoE, small damage fiery explosion around the target that of course burns them for 4 seconds. I’d LOVE to see longbow on Guardian and it definitely could work, I think.

I remember during the betas arena net said they can’t add any more weapons to the game because of bandwidth at this time. But I believe they will add more weapons into the game later on to keep classes interesting while expanding content.

As for the scepter, they could slow the rate of fire but increase the speed of the fire.

I do not see how bandwith would effect weapon amount. But in the end, I think they will add weapons at they have time to do so. What good is adding another weapon when you still have current weapons to balance. Although I’ll cry if they add some more ranged to the guardian. It would make me the happiest guardian in the universe…Becuaes frankly that scepter gets boreing, old…and annoying fast.

That’s what they meant by bandwidth, Frostflare. Figuratively. In BWE2, they mentioned interest in Guardian Longbow, but just did not have the time or resources to devote to adding a whole new weapon to the profession.

And I agree. I am a huge proponent of Guardian Longbow, but I strongly believe we can’t possibly make an effective case for it right now. Even if we did, ANet’s current priority is immediate bug fixing, tuning and balancing of content and dealing with some of the issues troubling the game since release. After that, I imagine they’d start looking at profession balance. Then, eventually, after we have a cohesive metagame and people seem to understand their professions, we might be able to make a case for it.

You’re right though. They’d never add another weapon until they’ve done all they can to balance our existing ones. Expect Scepter/Staff tweaks well before any hint of Longbow.

I don’t think it’s realistic to expect any major staff tweaks, because it works really well being a support weapon and I can’t imagine them changing it in any way (tweaking the numbers is a different story).

As for scepter I don’t believe it can be built into a “perfectly” viable ranged option, at least from the point where it currently stands. It does need some serious tweaks, but in general I think it’s gonna stay similar to what it is at the moment and always stay a mid-range weapon..

.. which always calls for a viable ranged option. And by viable ranged option I mean a two-hander with a range of 1200 and there many possibilities how to implement a longbow so that it won’t be an OP weapon on a profession with awesome survivability.

shiz.5976

I crit for 2.5k with my scepter auto’s(55% crit chance). And crit 8-12k with my zealots flame(torch). Guardians can deal tons of dmg at range. The only problem is the scepter’s auto-attack projectile travel speed. It has to be faster, cause now you can outrun it with swiftness.

This is in PvE while being a glass cannon, so this is somewhat irrelevant info really. WvW is the biggest issue here. Speeding up the projectile isn’t a solution really. It will still fly in all directions but the one it’s supposed to fly in at 1200, but being alright, not perfect, but alright at mid-range, which is what scepter really is – mid-ranged weapon.

Varyag.3751

Once again, if you want a Longbow, roll a Ranger or Warrior.

Self-note: Ignore this kind of posts.

Varyag.3751

Guardians do use ranged weapons, if you didn’t notice, we have staves, tridents and sceptres. Guardians just aren’t masters of ranged combat – ranged weapons are backups for when the enemy is too far away.

Staff is a mid-range support weapon. Scepter is more of a mid-range weapon, if you want somewhat reliable hits (for any aspect of the game, excluding PvE stationary targets). Tridents are underwater weapons so this point is irrelevant.

If you guys don’t do much WvW, that is perfectly fine. But don’t come out here saying our “ranged” options are fine the way they are just because you’re satisfied with them.

Judging by your posts I don’t think you understand the idea behind ANet’s profession versatility. We clearly lack in ranged department and that isn’t something to be quiet about, sorry.

Now while this is really no priority ANet should focus on at this point, I really do expect improvements (go go longbow) with the first expansion at the latest.

You’re all wrong. Crossbow is obviously the way to go. ^_^

In all seriousness though, the Guardian is extremely robust and can be a threat in certain situations. Not all of them but still enough to get by. Range is important for WvW and dungeons but we can get by. I managed to beat a Veteran mini-boss almost by myself just by kiting it with a staff & sword/focus. It took ages and a number of heals before someone else popped in to help burst down the last 10-15%. This, of course, doesn’t really apply in PvP or WvW but still.

Some type of viable range would be greatly appreciated by all Guardians but implementation would be difficult due to class balancing and the resultant complaints of all the other class. So, I’m going to agree with Eveningstar on this and just hope for some tweaks for the moment.

Almost forgot,….POLEARMS!! ^_^

I’ve been really enjoying my Guardian as melee in PVE. But in PvP its a different story, partly because the class lacks a viable way to slow an opponent and keep them in melee range, and partly because the scepter is a truly awful weapon. The scepter just isn’t viable, it’s too slow and is tedious to use. It’s bad in PVE but it’s next to useless in PvP.

Guardians shouldn’t expect to be ranged powerhouses, no-one wants or expects that. but they do need to have a VIABLE ranged weapon. Either boost the scepter or better still give Guardians access to the Longbow, as this would suit the design of the class just fine.

I think anet won’t grant the longbow to the guardian simply because reworking and balancing a new weapon for the guardian would be a pain in the kitten. That and anet would be swarmed by every other class to add a new weapon as well since everyone thinks their profession is UP

Razor.9132:

Scepter is more of a mid-range weapon, if you want somewhat reliable hits (for any aspect of the game, excluding PvE stationary targets). Tridents are underwater weapons so this point is irrelevant.

In this case, the Warrior Longbow is also a mid-range weapon (900 range), except that you cannot wield a shield while using it.

Razor.9132:

If you guys don’t do much WvW, that is perfectly fine. But don’t come out here saying our “ranged” options are fine the way they are just because you’re satisfied with them.

They’re not, but the solution is to fix them; not to create more balance issues by giving Guardians more weapons at this current time.

Razor.9132:

Judging by your posts I don’t think you understand the idea behind ANet’s profession versatility. We clearly lack in ranged department and that isn’t something to be quiet about, sorry.

And Engineer’s lack in the melee department, maybe they need maces and hammers.

Razor.9132:

Now while this is really no priority ANet should focus on at this point, I really do expect improvements (go go longbow) with the first expansion at the latest.

I agree with this, by expansion time I expect everybody to be getting new weapons and skills, but right now to give one of the better classes a brand new weapon this early into the game isn’t exactly fair on the other classes.

I’d be fine with either Longbow or Crossbow. I always felt that Crossbow would kind of fit Guardian anyway.

Varyag, I understand where you’re coming from. But there’s one thing I want to point out:

And Engineer’s lack in the melee department, maybe they need maces and hammers.

This is a popular fallacy. Guardians lack Ranged but Engineers lack Melee, so clearly it’s intended design. The issue is that while Engineers may not have very many options specifically for use at melee range, Ranged attacks suffer no penalty for being used in melee. Engineers aren’t necessarily penalized for being at less than 400 range. There is no “deadzone” where ranged weapons don’t function. There is no minimum range.

The issue is that being at range provides a very real advantage in a plethora of scenarios. It is the most common form of combat in WvWvW. And more than a few PVE Bosses require the player to stay at range as much as possible. In these cases, being at melee is punished.

There are a number of sensible arguments against giving Guardians a longbow (few of which I believe—but I won’t deny there are sensible arguments), but arguing that it’s okay for Guardians to lack ranged options in a game where options define performance because Engineers lack melee options is a fallacy.

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I agree that ANet will very likely look into tuning and balancing existing Guardian options before adding new ones, and I agree that there’s just far too much on the design team’s plate right now to realistically expect a Longbow.

Shimond.2478

Because it’s not the way we were designed. /shrug
People seem to have this idea that all classes should be able to do the same things. I don’t.

Developer Jon Peters says everybody should be able to do all of the things here:
http://gw2101.gtm.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/

Watcher.7120:

I managed to beat a Veteran mini-boss almost by myself just by kiting it with a staff & sword/focus. It took ages and a number of heals before someone else popped in to help burst down the last 10-15%. This, of course, doesn’t really apply in PvP or WvW but still.

Dude, with my warrior I beat an elite group boss + 6 minion mobs without going below 80% health, without using a heal, without kiting, in blue gear. I was kinda stunned when it was over in less than two minutes, using a greatsword signet build. I would play warrior but I just have issues playing a purely physical dumb brute type of profession, I need to have some kind of magic.

I see absolutely no reason for guardian to have such pitiful health, as it makes playing an offensive build very ineffective, you have absolutely no survivability coupled with very mediocre damage output. It also makes playing a defensive build very ineffective, because then your damage output is so low that you will never be able to beat even the worst lone player one on one in WvW.

While warriors still have insane survivability with a glass cannon build (compared to guardian class cannons), yet their damage output is sickening.

Right now not a single profession compares to the warrior either in damage or low-investment survivability (endure pain + shield abilities), while they still have great and easily handled support with the longbow and banners. I had the most fun with my warrior, because everything was just so easy, everything dropped dead in moments without me ever coming in danger, I just don’t like the concept of a dumb grunt, which sucks because the profession just facerolls everything regardless of what build you take.

I don’t like downgrading, and I don’t really want warriors downgraded, I just wish the other professions would be at least half as good as the warrior. As a guardian I mostly wish to have a health pool that makes sense, guardians should have the same health as warriors, their increased defensive options are balanced by their decreased offensive options, and that we have a ranged weapon that makes sense for a knight, because a staff or sceptre don’t only make no sense for an offensive guardian, they’re also useless in practice. A crossbow would be nice, with heavy small-radius aoe damage, or the same with a longbow, which makes more sense considering our spirit bow ability.

Eveningstar.6940:

This is a popular fallacy. Guardians lack Ranged but Engineers lack Melee, so clearly it’s intended design. The issue is that while Engineers may not have very many options specifically for use at melee range, Ranged attacks suffer no penalty for being used in melee. Engineers aren’t necessarily penalized for being at less than 400 range. There is no “deadzone” where ranged weapons don’t function. There is no minimum range.

The penalty for using ranged weapons in melee range is the greater damage that melee weapons have, especially when the weapon(s) is/are wielded by a Thief or Warrior.

Eveningstar.6940:

The issue is that being at range provides a very real advantage in a plethora of scenarios. It is the most common form of combat in WvWvW. And more than a few PVE Bosses require the player to stay at range as much as possible. In these cases, being at melee is punished.

I know, my Warrior is primarily melee with an untraited longbow as secondary, therefore I’m used to slow-auto attacks and 900 unit range. Melee is punished far too much in this game which is one of the reasons why I say Guardian sceptre needs a boost in usefulness, specifically regarding Orb of Wrath (perhaps the “Scepter Power” trait could include faster projectiles, amongst other changes). My only issue would be granting Guardian ranged power equal or superior to that of other classes who by design have more focus on offensiveness, especially by giving Guardians the Longbow and either the single-target “sniping” of the Ranger or the area-of-effect archery of the Warrior.

Eveningstar.6940:

I actually agree with the rest of your post. I agree that ANet will very likely look into tuning and balancing existing Guardian options before adding new ones, and I agree that there’s just far too much on the design team’s plate right now to realistically expect a Longbow.

Thank you for the well thought out response without sarcasm or flaming. In the distant future I hope we all get more toys to kill people with.

I know, my Warrior is primarily melee with an untraited longbow as secondary, therefore I’m used to slow-auto attacks and 900 unit range. Melee is punished far too much in this game which is one of the reasons why I say Guardian sceptre needs a boost in usefulness, specifically regarding Orb of Wrath (perhaps the “Scepter Power” trait could include faster projectiles, amongst other changes). My only issue would be granting Guardian ranged power equal or superior to that of other classes who by design have more focus on offensiveness, especially by giving Guardians the Longbow and either the single-target “sniping” of the Ranger or the area-of-effect archery of the Warrior.

Yes, that’s a fair concern. There’s always a question of efficacy and skillset that—at least in this game—is intimately tied to style. Because specific weapons have a specific tactical use, you have to ask yourself, ‘What skills will a Longbow provide to a Guardian? And how do you balance giving an already strong class another strong option?’

That’s why, for now, Longbow is a bit of a pipe dream. A pleasant fantasy. Before ANet even considers adding another weapon, it’s going to tinker with existing options first. One of the problems with Scepter isn’t that it’s a bad weapon—it’s not, honestly. It’s that it’s a limited weapon. Scepter has no boons. No symbols. No real trait support whatsoever. No significant synergy with Torch, Focus or Shield. It has nearly zero tactical variety, which makes it peculiar among Guardian weapons.

I think what we will see is a combination of Scepter tweaks and trait support to help give us a few more options at range. After that, ANet is likely to wait a while and see how the metagame develops.

Therefore, any hope of Guardian Longbow will likely happen when ANet does it’s next major balance ‘sweep.’ It’d have to be something big, something hinted at for a long time, and announced with some serious fanfare, and it’d include pretty significant changes for every profession. But, again, that just will not happen until the metagame solidifies, people start playing properly and both ANet and the community can figure out what’s balanced and what’s a bit out of whack.

Varyag.3751

Eveningstar.6940

There is no minimum range.

The penalty for using ranged weapons in melee range is the greater damage that melee weapons have, especially when the weapon(s) is/are wielded by a Thief or Warrior.

I’m not buying that.

In the spirit of making things simple, it would be easiest to just recycle weapons, animations, etc than to make completely new ones. Now, Orbs of Wrath, as far as I remember, aren’t actually projectiles, which gives them some uniqueness and usability along those lines. I’m not sure if I want those orbs to be/not be projectiles. Projectiles would give them an expected 20% finisher as per nigh every projectile auto attack, but would also make them affected (rather negatively I might add) by such glorious things as our own Wall of Reflection.
Now, the change that possibly would make the lest functional/visual difference would to keep everything as-is, but add piercing to the attributes, possibly making enough of a difference to account for the slow travel speed.
After having just read a “staff needs changes” thread, we could also try giving the scepter Wave of Wrath, but give it more of a Zealot’s Defense or Whirling Wrath (GS’s #3, I refuse to use GS for the moment) projectile functionality and animation. In my mind, it would work like an in-between of the Zelot’s Defense projectiles and Elememtalist’s water dagger (at least i think its for dagger, the one that leaves and returns, causing vuln. each hit) auto attack. Single direction, 1200 range, maybe/maybe not literal projectile, possible effect on hit (like a condition or what-not). The only question then, is how would we fix the now stolen soul of the staff #1. It couldn’t be a wave so much anymore, though we could make it into the orb launcher, 900 range, orbs explode on contact and do an aoe effect (like staff’s current #2, but geared for auto attack, but then what would staff’s #2 be? Anet could make another change like they did to add Empower, to help give staff a more solid identity, but I digress…). They could also just make the current scepter orbs explode, or have a 3 hit chain, with exploding, booning/conditioning 3rd hit?
Theres quite a few possibilities they could try, just by identifying an unfilled niche in “soul” and recycling current animations and whatnot.

Now for longbow…
I for one am a fan of Guardians possibly getting a longbow, but that’s about where my pondering has stopped. What would actually make the longbow (or any other currently used weapon) special to the Guardian? Not only does the Guardian’s Greatsword need to be uniquely purposeful compared to the Guardian’s Hammer, but the Guardian’s Greatsword needs to be unique to the Warrior’s Greatsword, or the Mesmer’s Greatsword, which they currently are. Same for the longbow. Now, the easy idea is for it to cause aoe fire/ burning. Wonderful! Guardians love burning, and (full) weapon based ranged aoe is something we don’t have right now (we don’t have a weapon designed around it, even if we have Smite and an Elite). Great, let’s impleme- but oh wait, Warriors stole that idea already. So what now…, single target pure damage? No, Rangers do that with their longbow. As far (and as little) as I’ve thought about this, I can’t really think of 5 skills that give the longbow an identity, synergy, and that doesn’t feel like blackmarket rip-offs of the other longbow ideas. Hopefully Anet will know what to do by the time they decide to gives us something shiny and ranged to play with.
tl:dr Suck it up and read it dangit! (and think like a dev too!)

There are actually several different sides clashing in this thread. Its not as simple as “Yay Longbow” and “Nay Longbow”

1. For you guys who are actually concerned of the lack of ability to do ranged combat. A scepter buff should be fine. No need for a longbow. New weapons quite possibly will be added on expansion, lets just work with what we have.

2. For you guys who are insecure about your character’s masculinity that a scepter becomes a questionable weapon, find a scepter skin that looks like a mace. I’m sure theres one somewhere.

3. For the people who argue that the longbow should exist because Guardians can summon it as a spirit. Then by that logic you should agree that it should do the same general concept as the spirit itself right?
What I mean by that is if they do add longbow for this reason. it has to be a support weapon. #1 skill is definitely an attack, maybe #2 as well but 3 4 and 5 has to be some sort of support skill and one of them is the healing arrow rain.

The reason I am very very against Longbows as an amazing offensive range weapon for guardian is because I am against anything that pulls the class towards becoming Warrior #2. I like the fact that I am a guardian and every. single. bit. of uniqueness it has as a class. I dont want to be just a flashier looking warrior in the end.

@Chii:
1) Scepter buff would indeed be enough. It would keep our ranged options very limited, but improve things a lot. And I’m not sure if buff is the right word for it. Change might be better.
2) I don’t understand this, actually. How does a Scepter not fit a Guardian?
3) I’d kill puppies for a Longbow as a ranged support weapon.

Ynna.8769:

@Chii:
1) Scepter buff would indeed be enough. It would keep our ranged options very limited, but improve things a lot. And I’m not sure if buff is the right word for it. Change might be better.
2) I don’t understand this, actually. How does a Scepter not fit a Guardian?
3) I’d kill puppies for a Longbow as a ranged support weapon.

1. As long as it becomes a usable weapon. Im fine with being limited on options as long as theres a usable option. Expansions are gonna bring more to come eventually.

2. Dont ask me, there are several people here who thinks their manliness is challenged because they hold a scepter instead of a manly manmade for men longbow or rifle.

3. Im not against this really. The problem are people wanting longbows that function like the warrior’s longbow. Which reeks of I rolled the wrong class syndrome

If you think the Guardian’s possible longbow abilities are already covered by other classes, then why not focussing on combo fields and combo finishers? That fits the support theme of the profession pretty well and could give him a little bit of desperately needed ranged capability in Wv3. He doesn’t need to be awesome in ranged combat, he just needs some weapon that actually looks like a weapon, has decent range and an autoattack that doesn’t move in slow motion, preferrably a chained attack. As for the rest, I’d be perfectly fine with some defensive attacks that grant aegis or apply blind and some mild AoE attacks that create combo fields for your allies. That’s why I’d prefer pistol&shield but a spirit bow similar to an engineer kit as one of our ults would be quite nice, too.

I’d prefer the pistol for a couple of reasons:
1. It’s not a long range weapon that promotes static gameplay.
2. It allows you to take an offhand weapon, for instance a shield.
3. A single pistol is not a high DPS weapon.
4. The 3rd attack could be depending on what offhand you picked, making the choice of what offhand to use fun and tactical.

As for the abilities, I’d make 1 a chained attack with the first attack being a combo projectile, the second applying vulnerability and the third dealing a little bit of extra damage. 2 could create a symbol on impact that serves as a light combo field and cripples enemies inside. 3 depends on your offhand choice, so torch could be a single target volley that deals more damage if you’re burning, shield could parry the next hit and shoot a high damage projectile if you parried an attack. If you didn’t parry an incoming attack the ability grants you and nearby allies retaliation after channeling ends.
Focus 3 could create a light combo field around you that grants retaliation.

Just some ideas. I’d prefer the pistol mainly because the 3rd ability could be used to create synnergies with your offhand choice and a pistol promotes mobile gameplay that fits our profession better than a long range bow that allows you to stand in the back row and spam attacks like a wannabe Ranger.

“has decent range and an autoattack that doesn’t move in slow motion, preferrably a chained attack”

this can be done with the scepter without having to add a weapon in game when its not feasible to do so atm

“he just needs some weapon that actually looks like a weapon, "

this bothers me so much. A scepter looks like a weapon.
it is a weapon in the hands of other classes who can use it. its a weapon in a guardians hands.

Please do not give Guardians a ranged option outside of the Scepter. We are a very strong class that most people just need to learn how to play properly, or play the class they really want to play.

Guardian abilities need to be built in with homing capabilities or make them more like skill shots.

Including the chain move on the hammer.

Chii.2814:

“has decent range and an autoattack that doesn’t move in slow motion, preferrably a chained attack”

this can be done with the scepter without having to add a weapon in game when its not feasible to do so atm

“he just needs some weapon that actually looks like a weapon, "

this bothers me so much. A scepter looks like a weapon.
it is a weapon in the hands of other classes who can use it. its a weapon in a guardians hands.

I agree on the autoattack speed up. However, I find the scepter to look incredibly stupid., especially with the animation and the orbs. They could as well have given him a tennis racket and make him moan every time he launches an attack. This is a Guardian kittenmit, not Anna Kournikova.

Chii.2814:

The reason I am very very against Longbows as an amazing offensive range weapon for guardian is because I am against anything that pulls the class towards becoming Warrior #2.

The thing that makes guardians unique is their utter lack of HPs. Why deny us everything else, too?

They simply need to make the Scepter a better ranged option. They don’t need a new weapon.

It really makes no sense for a profession named “guardian”, a melee class with heavy armor, to have the lowest possible health pool of the game, I can’t imagine what they were thinking when they made that decision. I could live with not having a ranged option if we at least had the health to survive a few seconds of kiting. I could maybe understand giving guardians medium health pool, although barely.. but the lowest, half of that of a warrior? No, I can’t fathom that. People who cry “it’s all fine” are usually the ones who stabled their guardian long ago.

we dont “cry” its all fine.
you dont whine that because “its all fine” isnt a complaint.

youre using the word wrong

and im not even gonna try to argue that health pool topic here since its a longbow topic

Zsymon.8457:

It really makes no sense for a profession named “guardian”, a melee class with heavy armor, to have the lowest possible health pool of the game, I can’t imagine what they were thinking when they made that decision[…] People who cry “It’s all fine,” are usually the ones who stabled their guardian long ago.

First of, I play my Guardian almost exclusively.

The name “Guardian” implies nothing about the healthpool.
And no-one is crying “It’s all fine.” People are explaining why you’re mistaken. Guardian has problems, the healthpool isn’t one.

I agree on that, Ynna. The low health pool is the least of my worries.

I think the only thing that bothers me are the comments of “If you want another ranged option your not playing this class right”. That truely grinds some wheat! I have played as a guardian since day one, and love every utter second of it. But there are a lot of times where I feel punished for being the class.

Have you tried to go against the Claw of Kodan without a Scepter? You can’t do it! It’s completly impossible becuase of the Area around it will kill you outright. So if you forget to grab a scepter(our only ranged option) your stuck doing almost nothing the entire event other then picking up straglers whilst the rest of the proffesiosn can actually hurt the minion.
The guardian could have any number of potential ranged weapons, I for one advocate a shortbow-and I even came up with a full list of skills that combine well in the proffesions repitoure. The Warrior is not an AOE long-bow users They have 3 skills including f1 that produce aoe effects, and only 1 is a persistent field. 1 is control, and 1 is an explosion. That is it! The Ranger has a longbow that is acutaly better at range, and then has a high control factor. But it is not entierly single-target, or that damageing.
The shortbow concept I designed could be adapted to a longbow, but it still is a very UNIQUE take on the bow concept. I mean, it adds support wheren NEITHER of the other longbows do. It adds a ranged tacticle “choice” option. I even did some revision and it came out pretty unique.
*1. Arrow of Truth-Shoot an arrow in a straight line at the target hitting all enemies in the line of the arrow.

• 2. Alignment-Fire multiple arrows at the target, each arrow dealing damage and stacking a single vunrability(7 stacks). Allies caught in the way of the arrows are healed for each arrow that hits them.(Minor healing).
• 3. Symbol of Zeal- Lay down a symbol at target area that gives allies Vigor and damage foes.
  *4. Beacon-Arch an arrow into the sky creating a brightlight under the target area. Enemies directly under the aoe are burned and allies receive fury.
  4-a. Illuminate- The beacon expands all of its light in a final burst, blinding enemies and granting regeneration to allies. Increase the recharge of Beacon
  *5. Zealot’s Arch- Send an arching arrow into the field that explodes in flames creating a fire field and burning enemies.
  5-a. Zealot’s Intervention- Port to the fire-area made and send out a wave of flame that purifies a single conditon from each ally in range, and burns enemies caught in its wave. Creates a blast finisher.Increases the Zealot’s arch cooldown.

Truely comeing up with a unique concept in a weapon thats both unique among the class, and classes is not that hard. This concept for example is Aoe heavy with a minor movement, heavy support(buffs) and only a very small amoutn of control, and low damage. It can not produce fire feilds as wide or as long as the warrior, or aoe that does control too. The option of choice also makes it an intresting weapon to use, becuase to much poping of skills can leave you in a cooldown rut. espeicaly with most of those skills have much longer cooldown when you pop the chain. The normal attack is not similar to EITHER of the longbows or shortbows. Its very unique among its kind, as are the rest of the skills. Its not a difficult thing to “imagine” the ideas. It may be hard to implement, and I agree it won’t happen any time soon. But I say that is becuaes of the lack of resources and time that Anet has right now, not becuase creativity is strained to produce unique weapon-sets.

I think Scepter Power should make our projectiles homing similar to what Engineers get underwater with their attack. Or they could be homing from the get-go and the trait could increase projectile speed.
The real issue however is that the Scepter is only a mainhand, which some people brought up. There is no real off hand that makes sense with it. Focus would be good, but it’s second defensive ability makes no sense for scepter. Torch is useless because it’s outranged (but can be good for AoE tagging stuff in DEs along smite) and Shield doesn’t fit in any conceivable way.

I honestly think that this cannot be resolved in any other way but to switch Scepter #1 (alongside making it homing and/or faster and/or a small AoE) with Staff #1 and possibly also switch Smite with Orb of Light. That way our support weapon gets us range which solves tagging issues and the need to go Scepter / Something and Staff if we want to support in WvWvW with Staff’s Empower, Symbol and Wall.
And Scepter could become our mid-range AoE weapon with a heal attached to it, which would make it synergise a lot better with availible off-hand weapons such as Torch or Focus.

That would be, in my humble opinion, the most simple solution possible and it would solve three issues at once.

I agree that Guardian need some fixing on the ranged attacks depature.

And dont come with the dont go solo in WvW talk, its not always a player can play with friends or guild.

Like my self that play alot during the night when my friends and guild mates are offline, or im jumping into wvw just for a “quick fix”.

Guardian needs fixing on the ranged attacks departure yes.
Hence why i advocate fixing the scepter.

What I am against is adding a new weapon that will further complicate balance of the game. I would rather have them add that later on expansion when they have time to actually balance things out.

Its just not feasible right now when theyre busy fixing bugs, banning bots, changing up skills and traits to be balanced, etc etc etc

Eveningstar.6940:

Yes, that’s a fair concern. There’s always a question of efficacy and skillset that—at least in this game—is intimately tied to style. Because specific weapons have a specific tactical use, you have to ask yourself, ‘What skills will a Longbow provide to a Guardian? And how do you balance giving an already strong class another strong option?’

Very good points, I find it difficult to think of a way the Guardian could use Longbow without encroaching on either Ranger Longbow (sniper) or Warrior Longbow (aoe conditions) territory.

Eveningstar.6940:

One of the problems with Scepter isn’t that it’s a bad weapon—it’s not, honestly. It’s that it’s a limited weapon. Scepter has no boons. No symbols. No real trait support whatsoever. No significant synergy with Torch, Focus or Shield. It has nearly zero tactical variety, which makes it peculiar among Guardian weapons.

I agree with this and this is exactly why new weapons shouldn’t (and won’t) be added for some time to come; some weapons need looking at and altering, Guardian’s Sceptre among them.

frostflare.6390:

*1. Arrow of Truth-Shoot an arrow in a straight line at the target hitting all enemies in the line of the arrow.

• 2. Alignment-Fire multiple arrows at the target, each arrow dealing damage and stacking a single vunrability(7 stacks). Allies caught in the way of the arrows are healed for each arrow that hits them.(Minor healing).
• 3. Symbol of Zeal- Lay down a symbol at target area that gives allies Vigor and damage foes.
  *4. Beacon-Arch an arrow into the sky creating a brightlight under the target area. Enemies directly under the aoe are burned and allies receive fury.
  4-a. Illuminate- The beacon expands all of its light in a final burst, blinding enemies and granting regeneration to allies. Increase the recharge of Beacon
  *5. Zealot’s Arch- Send an arching arrow into the field that explodes in flames creating a fire field and burning enemies.
  5-a. Zealot’s Intervention- Port to the fire-area made and send out a wave of flame that purifies a single conditon from each ally in range, and burns enemies caught in its wave. Creates a blast finisher.Increases the Zealot’s arch cooldown.

Truely comeing up with a unique concept in a weapon thats both unique among the class, and classes is not that hard.

There’s nothing unique about this; you’ve just combined Ranger’s auto attack (Long Range Shot) with their Piercing Arrows trait and also taken Ranger’s second attack (Rapid Fire) plus adding vulnerability and healing to it. While skills 4 and 5 essentially render Longbow Warrior useless (especially were this Guardian Longbow to have 1200 range untraited), because these skills AoE Blind and Burn but also with condition removal.

And to those guys who are complaining about having to use a Sceptre: You’re playing a magic class, essentially a hybrid of heavy armour and protective magic, of course you’re going to be using some of the weapons found in the scholar classes.

Actually, those Skills were designed for a shortbow. I said It could be adapted to a longbow, but among the longbows it is unique. Your right the second skill kinda sucks. Ill take that one.

But the main skill I think serves it own function among the classes and within the class. Nothing else the guardian uses has piercing, nor cosidering that It does not recive a benifit to damage based on range. So its not the same thing at all. Nor does it receive benifit for “position”. Ok So its not. Your completly removing very important functions of the current skills when you ingnore those little features.

Skill 4 and 5 are vastly diffrent then a longbow warrior. If I recall arcing arrow is just an explosion. It neither burns nor does any conditon. It just explodes in AOE damage. The other aoe is smoldering arrow, which explodes with a blind. The last aoe feild is based on adrenaline, and its a VERY large field. I mean, large enough that it can span an entire battle very easily, which its burn is not its only factor. The true fact remains that it is such a large field.

The way the “shortbow” skills were designed were intented to be AOE heavy, and supportive. The aoe’s though do not produce damage ticks naturally, they only inflict burns(which everything a guardian does, already does that..). To utalize the control aspects such as the blind, you have to actually “sacrafice” the beacon and its cooldown. Meaning you lose acess to the burn, and you lose access to the beacon for a longer time. The last field would be a very small field, it has to be. The size of a regular symbol even. It allows the guardian ot produce some heavy burning, and move…but thats it, even iwth the condition removal it’s still vastly diffrent then arcing shot.

Even if you decided to leave the AOE feild down, its not nearly large enough to span what combustive shot can. Not to mention, combustive shot is not a regular skill. It actually is an f1 skill, and gets better the more adrenaline you have. Neither 4 nor 5 get better by “saveing them”. They are intented to be used, but the Aoes are breif feilds. They dont last for 10 seconds.

SO actually sir, they are diffrent. I mean, if you want to really placate everything in such black and white terms everything is to similar. I mean the Theif has a throw dagger skill and so does the ranger, so by that logic one or the other should have an off-hand dagger. Or rifles for example. They are extreamly similar to some people. They both to incredible single target damage on both warriors and engis so only one should have one.

See thats what I mean. The world is not so black and white. Truely there can be overlay and diffrences that exist at the same time. Even if you take my second skill you could alter that to anything right now. change it to “Warding shot” fire a shot that creates a ward at the foe struck knocking him back. Thats very unique, except well we already have two wards so that just can’t happen can it? And I have a whole list of skills that have arcing similaries that im sure you must just hate. For example, The lovely pistols on the theif and engi. One does bleeding on hit aoe, the other bleeds a single target. Ohh but they both bleed, so accordingly they are neitehr orignal nor unique, and thus can not exist at the same time….sarcasm. I hate to sound like something else, and normaly im pretty easy to get along with. yet truely, that post was just felt like trollin.

Creativity is not a sin, and certainly Anet with such brillient and amazing minds(they created this afterall) would not be that strained to create another weapon. Im not saying “Give it to me now or else” the guardian actually is a very awsome class. But don’t hate on people because they say “There can be improvements”. Becuase all classes have problems, and no amount of “playing right” makes those problems go away. You can be a top player as a guardian, and you forgot to bring your scepter to the claw of jormag, and guess what, you’ll be utterly useless against the second phase of the event. You wont fight the dragon at all. Instead your stuck attacking ice chunks. More options Never hurt.

I advocate for changing some scepter skills, but when the resources become avialbe that classes can start getting new things, and some of thier “big” weaknesse can get some minor assitance. Im rooting for a “yes” add it. I think the games mindset and reality is that balanceing it is not like gw1. Balancing a weapon can be as simple as tweaking a cooldown, or altering how a weapon applies its conditons. I mean truely balancing was created by the devs in gw2 to be far easier and less of a hassle for themselves from day one. Hence they do not allow us to build like gw1. I am not saying its easier, but the game is designed to allow balancing to be a much simpler act. Thus when weapons are added it wotn take them 200 years to balance them with the others…it won’t make it that big of a deal.

ANet is not going to implement a new weapon until an expansion which is months away at a minimum. If anything they will improve our existing kit and that’s it. Trying to get a weapon that doesn’t even currently exist is even more off the rails.

I’d suggest you stick to improving the staff/scepter and their capability at long range. I personally feel staff is good where it is, it’s currently our most effective 1200 range AoE weapon for WvW thanks to SoS + orb and use of wall of reflection can open up the 600 unit range auto attack as well.

For scepter I’d like to see it changed.

• similar to mesmer GS beam, it channels 3 ticks however instead of increasing damage at long range like mesmers ours has a burn attached to the last tick(1s burn). This gives us a solid auto attack that also has a burn which has some synergy in our kit. Attack speed would be a full channel every second.

• Change it to be a targeted AoE that causes a detonation of light dealing damage and burning foes in the area(2-3s burn). Expected damage with full glass cannon would be about 3k with a crit on a squishy.

• Mostly fine as it is I suppose.

You could do alot with the Scepter, and I quite enjoy the idea of thos changes. I think the scepter has a plethora of potential, I just can’t wait for that potential to be unlocked. As is, your punished for not carrying it with you, and it truely does not stand on it’s own merit except that its our only ranged option. I think some jazz to its punch and synergy would greatly increase just how nice the weapon would be, and would make it more enjoyable to use outside of “just for range”. A damage boost is a must, and smite needs to be a little more intergral and synergetic then just “Damage in a field”. Well all of our symbols already do that…give it some omph. But I like the beam Idea.

I couldn’t even help fight Kudu or his golems in Sorrows Embrace. I was basicly just on revival duty the whole time.

Also, there was an event where you have to kill a Skritt who stole the contents of a chest. Without ranged, it was pointless to chase him. Even with the hammer and scepter combo, I couldn’t stun him long enough to do any damage. Any other class could have just ranged auto-attacked him to death, but not a Guardian.

I’m all for a longbow. I’d prefer it to be solely DPS oriented, maybe with a stun or a blind, but definitely with 3 direct, single target attacks. I like the idea of blue, flaming arrows.

the Scepter is a kittening joke, very boring and clucky skills, should be reworked, same with 1h sword

It will be highly unlikely they add weapons to any profession in the short term. It would require a lot of work in the weapon skills as well as the traits and perhaps the existing weapons as well to ensure a new weapon wouldn’t outclass an existing one.

If long range capability is strengthened, I would propose it may be done by simply increasing the damage of Scepter 1 or range of staff 1. I view this as a balanced solution.

I really like the crossbow idea I could totally see that working!

Forget longbow warriors have this give us the short bow. I want to humiliate my foes by raining down death with neighing galloping unicorns.

On a more serious note as some have said all that’s really needed is adding a speed boost to #1 skill but no I don’t agree on it being 1200 range. Can’t have it all.

Guardians are melee oriented … get over it.

But if I must give an idea, I’d say: Chakram

Rhogall.4179:

Guardians are melee oriented … get over it.

This is being said a lot, and it bugs me for the following reasons:

• If us being “melee-oriented” is true and important, then why did they increase the range of both the Staff and the Scepter during Beta? Or why do we have ranged weapons anyway, if we’re not supposed to use them as such?
• Ranged combat is a part of the game that every (other) profession has access to. Saying we aren’t supposed to be able to do decent ranged combat means we’re not viable for a part of the game.

Ynna.8769:

Rhogall.4179:

Guardians are melee oriented … get over it.

This is being said a lot, and it bugs me for the following reasons:

• If us being “melee-oriented” is true and important, then why did they increase the range of both the Staff and the Scepter during Beta? Or why do we have ranged weapons anyway, if we’re not supposed to use them as such?
• Ranged combat is a part of the game that every (other) profession has access to. Saying we aren’t supposed to be able to do decent ranged combat means we’re not viable for a part of the game.

My answer may sadden you:

PvE content: there are boss fights where you just can’t/shouldn’t be up close. These bosses do not run around frantically like a player does, ergo, the scepter works.

WvW sieges: Well, you sometimes need a little ranged, but it’s limited in it’s use.

This is, for me, the reason us guardians have ranged options, NOT because we should have a uber I WIN ranged build with them. They’re situational tools. For everything else, use masterc …. err, a big kitten sword or hammer

Why does everyone always assume that when asking for better (viable) ranged options, people are talking about overpowered ’I WIN-buttons"?