Guild Wars 2

I can notice a slow decline of guardians in the in the competitive Tpvp scene. Some already have even went on to say that we’ve already have been kicked out of the meta. With more teams stacking self-reliant skirmishing classes (necros, engis, eles), the need for the traditional bunker guardian has no need in this comp nor have a good chance when faced against it when forced to split in any match-up; 2v2s and 1v1s particularly. Yes you can go dps guard but honesty it laughable at high level play when you could just get kitted till you lose all your cds, and with the enemy team being able to peel for who ever you decide to train your 10 secs of aggression on you’ll have a bit more trouble escaping the counter cleave due to the lack if disengage.

Not to mention rezing is near suicide with the amount of cleave now from these classes, and not to mention knock back (down bodies don’t have stab) of cele engis during it. I fear that the nerf to warriors has revived and even worse condi meta than before. Killed the spiders, now the flys infest the world. A meta were guards are have a iffy place in, with teams much rather bring in a warrior that can be more useful…

I’m currently trying to figure a comp, build, strat around this problem cause max condi cleanse is never enough. I even have created some wonky cele hammer guardian that’s only been doing a bit better than my normal traditional bunker build but it’s still not quit there yet and have also tried forcing 2 3v2s. Even my teammates can agree and want me to re-roll engi. Not that I’m bothered, I do enjoy my engi but I just don’t want guardians in such a bad position. I’ve actually heard of some success from a mesmer buddy of mine using his weird bunker build lol.

So I am calling out to my fellow brothers of virtue! Cause I have nothing but respect to anyone who mains this noble and unappreciated profession. Tipically the necro plays fearmancer, engi is cele rifle 1 or 2 are used the other maybe p/p rabid, and eles are d/d with doom also 1 or 2 are used. If a warr is used it’s probably hambow with that stupid doom sigil XD.

So what build/strat/comp, would you guys use or try to combat this (necro, engi, ele, and maybe warr) comp that tipically like to play 3 points 2:1:2, 2:2:1, or 1:2:2 skirmishes. I’ll like some incite from those who experienced playing in high in tpvp and having to face this comp. But if you know a lot about guardians in general and have a solid understanding of the mechanics of conquest, or have played these classes I’ve mention before then I’d like your input. Note, this is against competent team que players, not hotjoin heros or solo que masochists.

tl;dr how do I stand a chance against team Abjured (they have a thief now I believe), Cognitive Gaming, or super pug team with similar comp as a guardian

Sincerely, a concerned brother Tesla ^^

Comps like the one you mention are extremely difficult to handle with the standard bunker guard builds. They brings so many conditions and sustain, it doesn’t matter how many cleanses you have, you’ll eventually just get overwhelmed.

Bunker guard is in a weird spot atm. They still perform very well against most comps, however there are some comps where they are almost useless in a sense.

Only thing I can think of is maybe going hybrid builds. That way you can still bring support, however you have the added damage so you can apply pressure too.

good, more buffs in the future maby
i see at least 1 other guardian in my soloQ’s everyday tho. this is top 10-100 EU.

There are a few issues here. The other bunker classes provide more CC and do more damage in bunker mode than a guardian. And yet have similar amounts of sustain. Why wouldn’t a team opt for one over a guardian?

Relentliss.2170:

There are a few issues here. The other bunker classes provide more CC and do more damage in bunker mode than a guardian. And yet have similar amounts of sustain. Why wouldn’t a team opt for one over a guardian?

That’s the thing, teams slowly are. Guardian is still the best support hands down, some might argue staff ele, but that’s a different story. However, the meta has been changing recently. A lot of class now have all the sustain they need, so a pure support role like Guardian isn’t really needed as much. Other bunkers don’t have as much support, however they are better at 1vX, they can also bring pressure through conditions and CC.

So pretty much bunker Guard is getting faded out because of the meta. They’re still decent, just not always optimal.

Well it depends on other classes on your team. When you still want to play with stuff like thief and mesmer that have little to no condi removal and meh sustain bunker guard is still more or less mandatory. Basicly with every celestial class in your comp bunker guard becomes worse and less needed.

The other problem that you mentioned is that teams might push for 1v1s and 2v2s where bunker guard will pretty much always be at a disadvantage. This might be true for the AH-mace/focus-staff build that was meta pre patch but with the old 0/0/2/6/6 virtues bunker build and a scepter or a hammer instead of the mace you can be very useful in some 2v2 matchups and still do well in teamfights, especially now since war is less common and you won’t have to tank combustive shot 24/7 to keep a point contested which was one of the main things that made AH kinda mandatory on bunker builds from my experience.

That being said most of the top teams still play with guard just because they are used to it. I’m kinda scared that we might get a meta with like 4 celestial classes on every team when people start rerolling and testing new stuff in a few weeks. In these kind of teams guard would be pretty useless. :<

The best thing guardian could hope for (guardian as in dps and bunker guard) would be a nerf to celestial. Probably won’t happen but I guess I can dream. :/

I don’t think Guardian has been in a weaker spot in pvp at anytime in this game.

There have been 2 years worth of changes to other classes while guardian has been ‘in a good place’. The class has stagnated significantly, and now it’s finally really starting to show.

Here’s to hoping that Anet will finally give us some genuine love instead of some silly spirit weapon tweaks.

I think it’s time to give guardians a condi option beyond burning.

Shanks.2907:

I think it’s time to give guardians a condi option beyond burning.

^ This really. Or at the very least, change our burn to a different type of burn that doesn’t get overrode by other burns.

Somebody opens a thread saying that the one meta build that guard has since forever is slowly becoming unviable… and people ask for condi guard buffs in it. Srsly?

Keksmuffin.1450:

Somebody opens a thread saying that the one meta build that guard has since forever is slowly becoming unviable… and people ask for condi guard buffs in it. Srsly?

This could open up the viability of variable hybrid builds, including a point holding, tank hybrid. And considering that some professions do this already, it would give Guardians the same option.

Rather than thinking the two are separate, think of it as a different branch to the build.

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

guardian pvp meta: meditation spam! gg
tell me it is not … and join a solo arena

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

Black Box.9312:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

This is more of a comment on our small buff than on our role in current team meta:
After the last patch, I find I am just taking too much damage from too many ranged sources for my med build, which I only really use in solo q, to be effective anymore. Everyone else’s buffs are just so much bigger than any we recieved. Its gotten so bad that if I want to play a fun game to complete my dailies I have to play a different class.

Relentliss.2170:

Black Box.9312:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

This is more of a comment on our small buff than on our role in current team meta:
After the last patch, I find I am just taking too much damage from too many ranged sources for my med build, which I only really use in solo q, to be effective anymore. Everyone else’s buffs are just so much bigger than any we recieved. Its gotten so bad that if I want to play a fun game to complete my dailies I have to play a different class.

Just out of curiosity, may I ask which profession you change to for PvP? I am finding the same difficulties with my Guardian at the moment and while I do enjoy PvP, the current Range > Melee meta that this patch has introduced is making the games just not very fun on a Guardian. So, I am looking to change professions and would be interested in what you do find fun in PvP now.

Thanks.

Another culprit would be the cele amulet, as more teams are stacking cele classes and becoming more self reliant. If you wanna reroll, a safe bet would be cele engi or ele.

Michaeas Magister.1589:

Relentliss.2170:

Black Box.9312:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

This is more of a comment on our small buff than on our role in current team meta:
After the last patch, I find I am just taking too much damage from too many ranged sources for my med build, which I only really use in solo q, to be effective anymore. Everyone else’s buffs are just so much bigger than any we recieved. Its gotten so bad that if I want to play a fun game to complete my dailies I have to play a different class.

Just out of curiosity, may I ask which profession you change to for PvP? I am finding the same difficulties with my Guardian at the moment and while I do enjoy PvP, the current Range > Melee meta that this patch has introduced is making the games just not very fun on a Guardian. So, I am looking to change professions and would be interested in what you do find fun in PvP now.

Thanks.

Necro and Ranger mostly. The problem is I don’t like these classes that much but the meta seems to have really shifted to ranged combat.

What bunker Guardians need is a good engie. Not the meta engie though, a different type of engie that is a hybrid of healing, damage and CC and engie that can rez cleanse and still have time to knock someone into next tuesday. The DREAM ENGIE!

Black Box.9312:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

I never said they were that significant. There were generally more buffs than nerfs so the intention is that this class needed more help, at least in the amount of choices they have and if the class continues to underperform, more will be given. ANet isn’t (that) stupid.

As for the rest of the stuff, balance isn’t something that can be done overnight. Taking a class through drastic changes will ruin it; such as the necromancer is in an utterly terrible shape in general in terms of design with no vision whatsoever.

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

Relentliss.2170:

Michaeas Magister.1589:

Relentliss.2170:

Black Box.9312:

ArchonWing.9480:

Considering the buffs meditation guardian got recently, it would seem Anet is becoming aware of the situation and will reconsider the other side.

To be honest I wouldn’t really say that they were all that significant as far as buffs go. The change to fury on medi becoming AoE for allies is a greater buff than the renewed focus change IMO, and that wasn’t even mentioned in the patch notes, let alone the ready up stream.

This is more of a comment on our small buff than on our role in current team meta:
After the last patch, I find I am just taking too much damage from too many ranged sources for my med build, which I only really use in solo q, to be effective anymore. Everyone else’s buffs are just so much bigger than any we recieved. Its gotten so bad that if I want to play a fun game to complete my dailies I have to play a different class.

Just out of curiosity, may I ask which profession you change to for PvP? I am finding the same difficulties with my Guardian at the moment and while I do enjoy PvP, the current Range > Melee meta that this patch has introduced is making the games just not very fun on a Guardian. So, I am looking to change professions and would be interested in what you do find fun in PvP now.

Thanks.

Necro and Ranger mostly. The problem is I don’t like these classes that much but the meta seems to have really shifted to ranged combat.

Fight fire with fire, eh? Sounds like a plan to me. If you can’t beat ’em…

Thanks.

indeed guardians are not an spvp reliable class:
lowest hp in the game , no mobilty , no cc, easiest target in game
we are awesome at dungeons but that a different subject
skills like mace protectors strike hitting like a pillow even though it should of being our anti faceroll skill against those who burst you mindlessly its just scratches them
there is no way to turn the tables with guardian

Today I saw the ToG EU games. All teams had at least 1 Guard. One got 3 (2 DPS and 1 Bunker) and won both games

Where, in hells, are we fading away from competitive PvP?

mPascoal.4258:

Today I saw the ToG EU games. All teams had at least 1 Guard. One got 3 (2 DPS and 1 Bunker) and won both games

Where, in hells, are we fading away from competitive PvP?

EU has a different meta than NA. Some top NA teams don’t even bother running guards anymore. The last ToL was a prime example, and so where the NA ToG qualifiers.

Harbinger.8637:

mPascoal.4258:

Today I saw the ToG EU games. All teams had at least 1 Guard. One got 3 (2 DPS and 1 Bunker) and won both games

Where, in hells, are we fading away from competitive PvP?

EU has a different meta than NA. Some top NA teams don’t even bother running guards anymore. The last ToL was a prime example, and so where the NA ToG qualifiers.

Even the winning EU team from ToL 2 did not run with a Guardian. But the team they played against (and won) ran two!!

Thanks.

mPascoal.4258:

Today I saw the ToG EU games. All teams had at least 1 Guard. One got 3 (2 DPS and 1 Bunker) and won both games

Where, in hells, are we fading away from competitive PvP?

Meh… the team with the 3 guards just got a really lucky bracket and played against Exaltation without Drazeh. When we faced them in TeamQ I didn’t even realize that it was actually a premade team until I saw them in ToG because the match was pretty easy and their comp doesn’t look like an actual comp. :/

Celestial builds can now might stack more on there team than empower can. d/d and staff ele can heal as much if not more than a bunker guard. Ele has higher uptime on AOE protection and regen than a guard. I am not saying ele should be unable to support but it should have to go clerics because right now their damage + support is ridiculous.

P.S. I do not want a guard buff, I just want cele toned down

Yeah, celestial is probably about 200 total stat points higher than it should be right now. It should be reduced to the point where in the builds where it’s good it shines, but doesn’t push out entire classes from viability that can’t take advantage of the stat combo well. Seems like taking about 25 or 30 points off of each stat would be a good place to start.

ow boohoo. Guardians are not falling out of the meta. Selfsustain builds are indeed able to run without but that just gives an alternative playstyle than the forever stale bunker guard, support bunker hambow and roamer teams. I you wanna fall out of the meta, roll thief, the last nerfs hit hard for tpvp..

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

jihm.2315:

indeed guardians are not an spvp reliable class:
lowest hp in the game , no mobilty , no cc, easiest target in game
we are awesome at dungeons but that a different subject
skills like mace protectors strike hitting like a pillow even though it should of being our anti faceroll skill against those who burst you mindlessly its just scratches them
there is no way to turn the tables with guardian

let’s see, highest armor in the game, highest heal potential in the game, most “reset buttons” in the game (how many times it happens you burst a guardian with all you have and 2 sec later hes full hp bvs he popped a virtue and some boons?) and no cc? You have the furtheste knockbakc in teh game, you have groundtargetted cc that can repeatedly AOE knockdown a groupfight, you have immobilize, you have a pull, you have a lauch from shield. Mace is your defensive weaponset, ofcourse it doesn’t hit much. And regarding the no damage, a medi guard can reck almost any class that is unprepared.

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

Saying that guardian is a ‘bunker class’ goes against the idea of any class fulfilling any role. I like guardian, but I don’t want to bunker with one. There’s nothing wrong with being able to have some build diversity, and I’d much rather have a squishy, mobile damage dealer than a tanky bunker that just stands in place for entire matches.

Black Box.9312:

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

Saying that guardian is a ‘bunker class’ goes against the idea of any class fulfilling any role. I like guardian, but I don’t want to bunker with one. There’s nothing wrong with being able to have some build diversity, and I’d much rather have a squishy, mobile damage dealer than a tanky bunker that just stands in place for entire matches.

Hahaha any class any roll, ever seen a thief hold a node vs 3 ppl bashing in to him? Same for mesmer? With that statement anet just was refering to selfsustaining classes that do not need a dedicated healer /dedicated tank but each have their own mechanics to deal damage /stay alive. As goes to roles in tpvp, not all classes can do all roles as effective. You haev build diversity (stop trying to go off topic) and you haev a squishy guardian that can deal tons of dps and has teleports (judge intervention) and sowrd no 2. But you can not expect to haev the mobility of a thief, with heavy armor and tons of virtue heals/blocks/invulnerability. For as far as my opinion goes, the two teleports listed above are already way too much.

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

You can’t see the forest for the trees.

I was bummed when I couldn’t play Dire with my Guardian, it is really quite fun.

Prince.7198:

jihm.2315:

indeed guardians are not an spvp reliable class:
lowest hp in the game , no mobilty , no cc, easiest target in game
we are awesome at dungeons but that a different subject
skills like mace protectors strike hitting like a pillow even though it should of being our anti faceroll skill against those who burst you mindlessly its just scratches them
there is no way to turn the tables with guardian

let’s see, highest armor in the game, highest heal potential in the game, most “reset buttons” in the game (how many times it happens you burst a guardian with all you have and 2 sec later hes full hp bvs he popped a virtue and some boons?) and no cc? You have the furtheste knockbakc in teh game, you have groundtargetted cc that can repeatedly AOE knockdown a groupfight, you have immobilize, you have a pull, you have a lauch from shield. Mace is your defensive weaponset, ofcourse it doesn’t hit much. And regarding the no damage, a medi guard can reck almost any class that is unprepared.

highest armor with the lowest hp make the calculation ,meditations also a one trick pony style and
yes we have a cc that knocks everybody down because stability is not like up all the time in a group fight right?
and who on earth does spvp unprepared? explain me what you mean by that?
seems you wanna argue just to argue.

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

You mean like how everyone is now rolling with Celestial Engineers, Elementalists, and Warriors? Having self-sustain while still being able to wreck face is not GOD MODE at all? Sweet.

I can get behind that. Now I just want to be able to do the same thing with my Guardian rather than having to choose between being a glass damage dealer or a support bunker.

(Sorry guys and gals. I know I probably should not feed the troll, but I thought this was a valid argument)

Thanks.

Prince.7198:

Black Box.9312:

Prince.7198:

TrOtskY.5927:

Guardian will never be as good and diverse as other classes until Anet FINALLY realises their mistake and decides to actually give the class some mobility.

What mistake? Guardian is a bunker class, their design is not to be very mobile. It seems like you want a GOD MODE profession, which would be lame cz everyone would then roll it.

Saying that guardian is a ‘bunker class’ goes against the idea of any class fulfilling any role. I like guardian, but I don’t want to bunker with one. There’s nothing wrong with being able to have some build diversity, and I’d much rather have a squishy, mobile damage dealer than a tanky bunker that just stands in place for entire matches.

Hahaha any class any roll, ever seen a thief hold a node vs 3 ppl bashing in to him? Same for mesmer? With that statement anet just was refering to selfsustaining classes that do not need a dedicated healer /dedicated tank but each have their own mechanics to deal damage /stay alive. As goes to roles in tpvp, not all classes can do all roles as effective. You haev build diversity (stop trying to go off topic) and you haev a squishy guardian that can deal tons of dps and has teleports (judge intervention) and sowrd no 2. But you can not expect to haev the mobility of a thief, with heavy armor and tons of virtue heals/blocks/invulnerability. For as far as my opinion goes, the two teleports listed above are already way too much.

Your comparison is irrelevant, because by design no class should be able to triumph in a 1v3 against 3 players of similar skill level. You’re also missing out on the fact that guardian is no longer far and away the bunker class. Classes like warrior and engineer are now vying for that spot that guardians used to hold alone, and we’re being left to stagnate because Anet isn’t giving us any other options to work with.

Nobody here wants a ‘thief with heavy armor and tons of heals/blocks/invulnerability’. We just want to be able to play a guardian that can actually kill people rather than just one that can stand in a circle and bounce around it until your staff 4 is off cooldown.

iN A GOOD PLACE!!!111

Guardian has loads of mobility: Save Yourselves + Retreat + Staff #3 + GS leap + Judge’s Intervention.

Little acknowledged fact:
PvP problems with the class aren’t the same as WvW problems with the class.

Svarty.8019:

iN A GOOD PLACE!!!111

Guardian has loads of mobility: Save Yourselves + Retreat + Staff #3 + GS leap + Judge’s Intervention.

Little acknowledged fact:
PvP problems with the class aren’t the same as WvW problems with the class.

Let me tell you on thing
Those weapons in WvW are for … you guessed right, ZERGS!!
Those utility skills, aside Judge’s Intervention, in WvW are for … right again, ZERGS!!

And guess again, mobility doesn’t matter in Zergs, you move with the zerg and in that case you should have 100% swiftness uptime.

Mobility in WvW only come to play in roaming, where the Guardian to be sucefull is pretty much forced to go Medi with Sw/F & GS and Traveler runes to be viable, UNLESS, you do small group roaming, and even then depends on the role you fill in the group (which will be either Burst Medi or Healway, most of the times for small groups)

I play in EU and haven’t felt any diference in the Guard role in tPvP, I still see a lot of ppl asking for Bunker Guard there and in solo q (where I do most pvp because I don’t have much time to play to get top lvl with a team) Medi Guards are welcome now that they got small buffs, at leasts since patch I’ve never seen someone complaining about having one instead of bunker, which happened sometimes before the patch.

guardian burn build in pvp are very op

u cant survive to that bunker burn when u know how to play the build

Magicarrow.8530:

guardian burn build in pvp are very op

u cant survive to that bunker burn when u know how to play the build

It’s strong but with teamfights with multiple people around, it starts to fall off, if the other side is running multiple AoE Condi cleanse.

like i said if u know how to play with its amazing sure that clean condi but its perma burn every time i put burn bleed and poison so hard to clean burn

Magicarrow.8530:

like i said if u know how to play with its amazing sure that clean condi but its perma burn every time i put burn bleed and poison so hard to clean burn

The main thing about Burn guard is it’s really reliant on blocks to stack up the duration. I’ve played burn guard, I enjoy it, it’s strong, but if the other team has lots of Condition removal you do lose out a bit but still do good damage depending if you use Carrion or not.