Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Suggestion-Writ-of-Impediment-And-More/page/2#post1293496
I open this thread, to continue a discussion Born on the thread above, but not tied to that single class proposition.
The Guardian is for sure one of the strongest class in the game, on Pve and on spvp is invaluable, but the lack of mobility, really risk to influence our playstile.

For pve, there is no problem i suppose, mobs dont flee and for ranged fight, the scepter is enough, so i dont discuss pve here.

On spvp our class is all about bunker, you dont need to follow your enemy, and to catch the point the enemy need to come after your, so until the other classes issue won’t be addressed, we are on a good spot, but only as bunkers.

WvW is the place where our issue come out strongly, a lot of player accuse the class to be OP, but in most part, i think that are players that charge us without any sort of strategy, and its like hit a wall.
The real good players on WvW know how neutralize a guardian, and its not so difficult, it take time for sure, but our class have very few tools to counter a ranged\kiting playstile.

So what’s for you is the best method to address this class lack?
Add more ranged option?
Increase class mobility?
Add more snare options?
A mix of 2 or all these 3 things?

For me the best thing is improve the control on Close combat, we already have some teleport, that are perfect to reach an enemy, but when the enemy is running, even if you reach it, you have very few things to keep him on the range of your weapons. I like the idea of a melee only class, because its totally different than the others, but the class need something more to remain loyal to this view.

Last thing. I really wish that some devs can share with us its opinions on this. Im not talking about Promises or work in progress, i just wish to know their opinion as player and developer.

Trait to change Burn procs to Cripple, since Burn is so horrible for Guardian anyway.

blenheim.6489:

Trait to change Burn procs to Cripple, since Burn is so horrible for Guardian anyway.

This can be an option, Keep on mind that this is a problem of the entire class, so to be effective as solution we need different kind of traits to cover every possible build.

Anyway, i suppose from you reply that you are for a snare only improvement too ^^

Sticking on a target and escaping sticky situations are literally our biggest challenges in WvW. These were the biggest contributors to me adopting the “Healway Guardian” build for myself(might sound odd, ill explain..).

Running with GS and 2h mastery gives me an 11 second leap without need for enemy target, and sword another blink on a decently low cool down. Using them intelligently not only helps me stick to a target, but is SO helpful for escaping situations. Seriously, I feel like a thief out there.

The reliance on roll heals and sigil of energy means I’m switching weapons nearly every time I can, which then pretty much guarantees my gap closer is ready. If you’re getting crippled while on a target it can be tough to keep whacking away at them; here is where Guardians need to rely on some condition removal to keep themselves free and clear of any movement hindrances.

Situation getting sticky? GS leap away, roll If heals are needed, switch to sword, target those blessed rabbits or deer, blink again and pop some swiftness.

It’s really unbelievable how much less I die and how much longer I stick on targets with this build. I will attempt to make a video in the near future and share my success

George Steel.1804:

Sticking on a target and escaping sticky situations are literally our biggest challenges in WvW. These were the biggest contributors to me adopting the “Healway Guardian” build for myself(might sound odd, ill explain..).

Running with GS and 2h mastery gives me an 11 second leap without need for enemy target, and sword another blink on a decently low cool down. Using them intelligently not only helps me stick to a target, but is SO helpful for escaping situations. Seriously, I feel like a thief out there.

The reliance on roll heals and sigil of energy means I’m switching weapons nearly every time I can, which then pretty much guarantees my gap closer is ready. If you’re getting crippled while on a target it can be tough to keep whacking away at them; here is where Guardians need to rely on some condition removal to keep themselves free and clear of any movement hindrances.

Situation getting sticky? GS leap away, roll If heals are needed, switch to sword, target those blessed rabbits or deer, blink again and pop some swiftness.

It’s really unbelievable how much less I die and how much longer I stick on targets with this build. I will attempt to make a video in the near future and share my success

You get a good point on here, i use a similar tecnique with JI, i love to use bunnies to go away from stikies situations.
But as you can see, is something related to your particular weapon choice. and when the fight is going, you cant change weapon just to compensate the lack of the above factors. ANd i think is horrendous to be forced to chose a predefinite weapon asset because the others are not effective.

Another thing related to this quote is that with your weapon choice, you are very mobile, probably is the most mobile combination for guardians. I played it on WvW too before start using the hammer, but the problem of kiting was still there.
You reach the enemy, and set one hit, the enemy flee, recover healt, you reach him again, another hit, the enemy flee again, you pull him with GS, another 2 or 3 hits, but the enemy flee again, and when you start to finish CD’s your enemy just go away.

I’m with George here. I don’t use the “healway” I’m more of a DPS mode but the synergy for attack/escape is the same. I use it solo/duo everyday.

I must say that Guardians certainly have options in order to increase their mobility and the ability to stay on a target. The trade-offs for doing so however are often way to high.

And I’m not sure if I completely agree with the notion that any “fix” needs to be available for every Guardian as baseline. I could see any solution that is a trait (Master or lower) in Radiance or Zeal, for example.

Then again, doing so risks making those traits nearly mandatory in sPvP, which results in even less (viable) build variance. I’m interested to see what solutions the community can think of (I might add something myself later after giving it some thought).

Ynna.8769:

I must say that Guardians certainly have options in order to increase their mobility and the ability to stay on a target. The trade-offs for doing so however are often way to high.

And I’m not sure if I completely agree with the notion that any “fix” needs to be available for every Guardian as baseline. I could see any solution that is a trait (Master or lower) in Radiance or Zeal, for example.

Then again, doing so risks making those traits nearly mandatory in sPvP, which results in even less (viable) build variance. I’m interested to see what solutions the community can think of (I might add something myself later after giving it some thought).

This is a really good analysis.
We see to many times on the forum, people that claim that guardians have NO mobility problems, and suggest to use skills to stay on the enemy, without thinking that we can use 2 weapons and 3 utility, and without consider the average long skills CD.

My solutions are always the same.

1)change how simbols work, to provide a punishing effect to the enemy but for doing this we need 2 things. the first is provide a simbol to the weapons that dont have one.
The second is create a light snare condition exclusive for simbols. (not a condition heavy as cripple for example)

2)another method is change all the 5% damage traits on weapons, to provide some control effect to the traited weapon. (and this can effectively help build variation, even if it can change too much the gameplay, because if you need to change weapons on the road, you lose effectivness)

3)the last is simply provide to any weapon some sort of snaring condition, directly on the weapon skills. (boostable then with proper traits, like leg specialist for warrior)

obviously, i dont consider these 3 solution synergistic, one exclude the other 2.

It seems that the only attempt at a slow that ANET wanted to give us was the super weird chill proc on the hammer (I forget the actual trait).

I like the idea of symbols causing a slow but I don’t think that crippling people is in the guardians flavor.

We already have “walls” with the staff, hammer, shield and some of our utility spells so it seems that if we could expand on that we could be golden.

My idea is that we have a trait (maybe replace the hammer one) that says the first time an enemy enters the edge of one of our symbols (each symbol procs separately) they receive a 1-2 second chill and if they try to leave they receive a 1 second immobilize.

It creates this idea of symbols having a sort of wall which gives enemies a chill when they enter or an immobilize when they leave.

drkered.7948:

It seems that the only attempt at a slow that ANET wanted to give us was the super weird chill proc on the hammer (I forget the actual trait).

I like the idea of symbols causing a slow but I don’t think that crippling people is in the guardians flavor.

We already have “walls” with the staff, hammer, shield and some of our utility spells so it seems that if we could expand on that we could be golden.

My idea is that we have a trait (maybe replace the hammer one) that says the first time an enemy enters the edge of one of our symbols (each symbol procs separately) they receive a 1-2 second chill and if they try to leave they receive a 1 second immobilize.

It creates this idea of symbols having a sort of wall which gives enemies a chill when they enter or an immobilize when they leave.

The idea is a original, you can use the simbol as trap or illusionary prison. But the problem with trais proposition, is that if you have not enough traits of this type, you just push poeple to use a particular build.
Look for example Valor 30 (AH or monk focus) how many guardians dont invest on it? i suppose the 90% of us use that 30 points, and the reason is simple, without a costant flow of heal, the guardian is just a dead body on an heavy armor.
If will be created only one trait, to addres this issue, no matter on wich place they put it, that trait will become a must have, pratically cutting down our builds selection, that is just very limited.

however, your idea can be applied directly to simbols, with lighter effects of course.
for example, the enemy that exit from the simbol is crippled for some second (variable on base of the simbol cd)