Guild Wars 2

Guardians need a decent ranged weapon, we only got scepter which has only 2 ranged damaging skills including auto-attack, and compared to other classes, our total ranged damage is terrible. Having a weapon like a rifle or bow for a warrior with 3-4 damaging skills would help guardians overall greatly.

No you don’t need ranged weapon.
You stay within the lines of friendly ranged support and use Staff Empower and Wall of Reflection.

Honestly, our only “real” ranged weapon is Wall of Reflection.

I have this theory – if you are one of the people out there who believe that Guardians are lost without a ranged weapon addition, “Guards need guns or we are uselessssssss!” types, can we see your builds too?

The staff actually handles pretty well after the recent fix to the Orbs. It makes hitting targets on the run much easier.

Wall of Reflection is just beasty in WvW though. Dump it in front of the door all the enemy ranged is pounding on and watch the numbers fly all over the place on your screen.

Come on. The class is pretty potent as is.

My thoughts exactly – I suspect to see a particular bias being commonly in the builds of those who feel like Guardians need another tool in their bag.

An actual ranged weapon(or orb speed increase) would be very useful. I think this horse has been beaten to death, the orbs are easily dodged without actually dodging and provide no secondary effect compared to other projectiles.

Total ranged damage is terrible, when out sceptre deals the best single target damage of ALL our weapons? Admittedly it has little AoE options (smite is not a true AoE since it hits 15 times total among ALL targets in range), and requires a stationary target, but damage itself is not a problem with sceptre.

(Speaking PvE admittedly, but no one said this topic isn’t about PvE too)

(Also, not to mention it’s unfair to say Sceptre has only two ranged attacks when there’s only 3 attacks on them to begin with. Use your offhand for more ranged attacks.)

Thank you for clearing that up then. So we have the highest single-target damage per hit with no secondary. I can live with that. We still need it to be sped up.

I wouldn’t mind a 25-33% speed increase to our Scepter’s projectile speed,so we don’t have to stand at melee range to make sure we can hit a moving target.

They increased mesmer’s scepter projectile speed by 33% why not guardians

If you are having trouble with scepter attacks missing, then stop missing with them. It’s not that hard.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

If you are having trouble with scepter attacks missing, then stop missing with them. It’s not that hard.

Depending on the distance and the movement of the enemy, that still is easier said than done. And of course, Smite is worse off cause it’ll inevitably not get full effect on any enemy which is moving faster than a tortoise.

Not this topic again. Everything about it has already been said before. Multiple times.

I’ve been advocating for better ranged capabilities on the Guardian since Beta.
I know a lot of people think that would make us overpowered, but I’m hardly convinced by that. First of all, that’s a problem the developers need to handle, not the players and secondly, it’s not that hard to imagine ranged options that don’t incredibly increase the Guardian’s power.

I don’t think asking for a new weapon is necessarily the best option. Tweaking the weapons we already have would be perfectly fine (Although I still dream of a Guardian with a Rifle, shooting blue flames). I’ve suggested tweaks for the Scepter multiple times already, so I won’t do it again.
The Staff is a harder nut to crack, since the skills on the weapon aren’t really bad, but the weapon has no theme or character.

redknight.8036:

No you don’t need ranged weapon.
You stay within the lines of friendly ranged support and use Staff Empower and Wall of Reflection.

we do, what if a player doesn’t like to play support and likes to be a full out dpser?

thisolderhead.5127:

I have this theory – if you are one of the people out there who believe that Guardians are lost without a ranged weapon addition, “Guards need guns or we are uselessssssss!” types, can we see your builds too?

well unfortunately for you, i’m not one of those types. And i do think that in ranged fights we only have limited options. in ranged fights im forced to switch to meele just because my scepter damage is far less inferior than my greatsword and i don’t want just keep spamming my auto attack and smite from afar.

thisolderhead.5127:

I have this theory – if you are one of the people out there who believe that Guardians are lost without a ranged weapon addition, “Guards need guns or we are uselessssssss!” types, can we see your builds too?

This is the problem in my opinion. Lack of ranged options for guardians means that they are almost ALWAYS in melee combat. Add to this a small hitpoint pool and you have a scenario where 95% of the builds that people use put 50-60 points in the vitality and toughness traitlines. In the end, the lack of ranged option means that guardians are pigeonholed into one or two variations of the same tanky build.

There is a rather appalling lack of variation between guardian builds. Especially compared to other classes that have 4 or 5 or more viable builds for any given scenario. Without 50-60 points in your survivability trees, guardians get blown up in melee combat. Guardians are also pretty much the only class that has no choice but to be in melee combat most of the time.

Psaakyrn.5794:

Total ranged damage is terrible, when out sceptre deals the best single target damage of ALL our weapons? Admittedly it has little AoE options (smite is not a true AoE since it hits 15 times total among ALL targets in range), and requires a stationary target, but damage itself is not a problem with sceptre.

(Speaking PvE admittedly, but no one said this topic isn’t about PvE too)

(Also, not to mention it’s unfair to say Sceptre has only two ranged attacks when there’s only 3 attacks on them to begin with. Use your offhand for more ranged attacks.)

In pve a warrior with a rifle with the same stats would deal damage atleast twice as much as we do.

Exionn, comparing a guardian to warrior is like comparing apples to oranges. Warriors are a different breed of fighters than we are. Its only natural that they hit harder than we do. To expect us, to be the same as a warrior, is like expecting a freshman to play as good as a senior. Every know and again you’ll run into that amazing person thats the exception. But 1 person does not make this game, and should not make the game change in order to fit the whims of such said person.

I am having a blast with this build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNAW5dlUgKD3FSHEg4ERWBWWzYfyD7hG94HB

its situational
its only WvWvW
others can do what you do a lot better
you are squishy
… and its still a lot of fun

the game is what you make of it

Kashien.6278:

Exionn, comparing a guardian to warrior is like comparing apples to oranges. Warriors are a different breed of fighters than we are. Its only natural that they hit harder than we do. To expect us, to be the same as a warrior, is like expecting a freshman to play as good as a senior. Every know and again you’ll run into that amazing person thats the exception. But 1 person does not make this game, and should not make the game change in order to fit the whims of such said person.

i’m not comparing guardians to warriors, i’m just comparing their ranged limitations and how a warrior would do twice as much as damage in the same situation. that comparison would have worked with any other class actually, because range for guardians is just that bad.

exionn.8152

i’m not comparing guardians to warriors, i’m just comparing their ranged limitations and how a warrior would do twice as much as damage in the same situation. that comparison would have worked with any other class actually, because range for guardians is just that bad.

As they should. Gaurdians are not, and should not be ranged combatants. All of our abilities, all of our specs, focus on close to mid ranged protection/buffs. We have very few offensive 1200 range abilities.

To add more, to make us more “versatile” ranged combatant will destory the very foundation of being a guardian. We can protect our allies from ranged attacks, can we not? Then that is all that matters. Retribution from a range is not our fortè. Getting up close and personal, that, is what we do. We protect and shield our allies, we are not long range combatants. Nor should we be.

And yes, you can make scepter builds, but the only reason i would ever use a scepter ( and i never do, or have), is to chase enemies down. Because it has an immobilization ability on it.

The staff #2 ability has had its velocity increased, making it a more viable ranged attack. even with my build, I am seeing 2.5k+ crits with it. which may not seem much, but it can be used every 2 seconds as long as you havent detonated it for healing.

Maybe instead of creating a new weapon they could give an alternate to our spirit weapon: make the bow useable (like ele’s) after hitting the key again. To compensate for taking away the destroying option it could be added to when the life of the weapon is up. Just my $.02

redknight.8036:

No you don’t need ranged weapon.
You stay within the lines of friendly ranged support and use Staff Empower and Wall of Reflection.

Three actions every 32 seconds when equipped with both CD reduction traits.

Yeah, that’s fun.

Kashien.6278:

As they should. Guardians are not, and should not be ranged combatants. All of our abilities, all of our specs, focus on close to mid ranged protection/buffs. We have very few offensive 1200 range abilities.

To add more, to make us more “versatile” ranged combatant will destroy the very foundation of being a guardian. We can protect our allies from ranged attacks, can we not? Then that is all that matters. Retribution from a range is not our forte. Getting up close and personal, that, is what we do. We protect and shield our allies, we are not long range combatants. Nor should we be.

Why shouldn’t Guardians be capable of ranged (I’ll come to your second paragraph later)? The reason all our build are centered around melee, is because our ranged capabilities downright suck. I think you’re mistaking about cause and effect. Given decent ranged options, we would be able to make a whole range of new build-options, instead of defaulting to tank-y builds. I’ll also add that if we weren’t supposed to be ranged they wouldn’t have upped the range on the Staff and the Scepter during beta.

I’m willing to accept that Guardians should defend, but they shouldn’t be completely limited by that definition. No professions can be defined on how they act around allies.
Protecting our allies from ranged is not enough.
And I don’t think anyone is asking to make Guardian default to ranged. We just want our ranged options to be viable and not suck.
Lastly, if you truly believe that carrying a ranged weapon prevents you from protecting allies, you probably haven’t thought about it very much. It’s not hard to imagine ranged options that also fit our profession.

Kashien.6278:

exionn.8152

i’m not comparing guardians to warriors, i’m just comparing their ranged limitations and how a warrior would do twice as much as damage in the same situation. that comparison would have worked with any other class actually, because range for guardians is just that bad.

As they should. Gaurdians are not, and should not be ranged combatants. All of our abilities, all of our specs, focus on close to mid ranged protection/buffs. We have very few offensive 1200 range abilities.

To add more, to make us more “versatile” ranged combatant will destory the very foundation of being a guardian. We can protect our allies from ranged attacks, can we not? Then that is all that matters. Retribution from a range is not our fortè. Getting up close and personal, that, is what we do. We protect and shield our allies, we are not long range combatants. Nor should we be.

And yes, you can make scepter builds, but the only reason i would ever use a scepter ( and i never do, or have), is to chase enemies down. Because it has an immobilization ability on it.

The staff #2 ability has had its velocity increased, making it a more viable ranged attack. even with my build, I am seeing 2.5k+ crits with it. which may not seem much, but it can be used every 2 seconds as long as you havent detonated it for healing.

it seems that you never played PVE and are only talking PVP wise. some fights CANNOT be fought in meele, just can’t. unless you’re a tank, which some guardians just don’t like being. due to just bad overall ranged abilities and damage of guardians, forces us to become tanks so we could survive being close to a bose which should be fought in range, like gigantus in arah.

I think it’s inevitable that all professions will get more/new weapons in the future, that’s just part of game evolution, so I don’t see anything wrong with talking about ranged options for the guardian. We have plenty of melee options, but no decent range options.

I think guardian getting a longbow or crossbow would be suiting, and I vaguely remember Anet mentioning that they’re looking into guardian longbow.. it suits the lore as well because of the spirit bow utility skill.

In some situations, melee is NOT an option, period.. end of discussion, so it seems only fair for guardians to get a good ranged option. The scepter is just a really bad weapon, mechanic-wise and visual-wise, smite misses half the time against a single target, and its hits are spread out against multiple targets, it’s just absolutely horrible as a skill, while the tennis-ball orb is unappealing and ineffective in every single way.

Imo, give the scepter a completely different function, just remove the skills and give them another mid-range function, and add longbow or crossbow as a ranged dps weapon. Anyone with experience as a guardian in all the game content, knows that the guardian needs a ranged dps option.

Some professions are better at some roles than others, but every profession should be at least viable at every role when specced into that specific role, and right now guardians just can’t do anything at range. Increasing orb of wrath speed still won’t solve the problem, because the other skills are just too bad.

Anet is very short signed and a bit hypocritical when it comes to Guardian Range dmg.

Honestly, make our dam orbs Seeker based or Increase the speed already.

That’s it. Out of all the other complaints, this would solve a VAST MAJORITY.

But until Anet firmly removes the perverbial ‘head from kitten #8217;, and realize thier statements about ~all classes being able to perform all aspects of the holy trintiy~… we are limited to certain builds.

The game is young and it’s going to take time…… even though this is Guild Wars ~~~ 2 ~~~~

Broken (not working as intended) aside, this entire topic still just results in revealing a lot of players – including some bright and skilled ones – coming across as completely clueless. Notable favorite:
“every profession should be at least viable at every role when specced into that specific role” oh – that’s adorable… so every profession (excepting perhaps warrior) in missing at least one or two builds – so slippery slope extrapolation and the whole game is broken because you don’t have a gun.

Flavour/lore wise I have a thought for the “look and feel” types – how many people out there can shoot fire out of their face, burst into flames at will, and then blink into groups of enemies (having them catch fire and die burning) would come to the conclusion that being far away, using a little toy shooter, is their tactical preference… not kittening many.

thisolderhead.5127:

Broken (not working as intended) aside, this entire topic still just results in revealing a lot of players – including some bright and skilled ones – coming across as completely clueless. Notable favorite:
“Every profession should be at least viable at every role when specced into that specific role.” Oh – that’s adorable… so every profession (excepting perhaps Warrior) is missing at least one or two builds – so slippery slope extrapolation and the whole game is broken because you don’t have a gun.

Disregarding the mild insults, it’s not about guns. I think no-one is seriously suggesting we need a Rifle. It’s not about guns, it’s about the ranged options we have being lackluster.
And yes, if any profession cannot fulfill a specific role, I find that a fault in the game. I’m only playing Guardian at the moment, but if I decide to level my Necromancer, and discover that is has no viable way to (for example) support or control, I would be on that sub-forum complaining about it.

thisolderhead.5127:

Flavour/lore wise I have a thought for the “look and feel” types – how many people out there can shoot fire out of their face, burst into flames at will, and then blink into groups of enemies (having them catch fire and die burning) would come to the conclusion that being far away, using a little toy shooter, is their tactical preference… not kittening many.

It’s not just tactical preference (as I said, I don’t mind being melee all that much), it’s about having the option and the fact that in some situations, you are at a severe disadvantage in close range.
You can’t just list one cool thing we can do, and use that as proof nothing else is wrong.

If you really think engaging a Guardian equipped with a rifle, dropping a wall of reflection, using Save Yourselves and Stand your Ground, clad in Heavy Armor is balanced, then more power to you.

Realize that this game isn’t about having every class being very good at everything. For something that each profession excels at, something must be taken away.

Though I like the Spirit Bow being a 1200 range summoned weapon idea. Spirit Weapons need a good buff overall.

In all seriousness though… the scepter orbs need an increase in speed… they miss too much… all my target needs to do is strafe left and right and I can NEVER hit them… is this fair? or the way it was intended?

While fighting the Ascalonian final boss in FotM I am missing more than 50% of the time… it is incredibly frustrating.

It is very frustrating in WvW as well.

In all honesty I hope Anet addresses this issue

I’ve been playing and loving the guard after I found the necro too buggy.
Personally I like that the guard is melee, and I’d personally like to see things like ‘gsword heals work off +heal’ and some tweaks to covering ranger faster. I know necro’s get a passive movement speed sig, offhand movement speed & slow to others, movement speed trait for there [F1] Form.

Point of my story. Melee Uniqueness is nice, I’ll play one of the ranged class’s if I want to range. Just give us a tweak up so we can get/keep in range of rangers!

redknight.8036:

If you really think engaging a Guardian equipped with a rifle, dropping a wall of reflection, using Save Yourselves and Stand your Ground, clad in Heavy Armor is balanced, then more power to you.

Realize that this game isn’t about having every class being very good at everything. For something that each profession excels at, something must be taken away.

Though I like the Spirit Bow being a 1200 range summoned weapon idea. Spirit Weapons need a good buff overall.

listen to the redknight. its all been said.

i do not think that spirit weapons need a good buff… maybe a fix. iirc the timer resets when the weapon is destroyed -and that makes them not fun especially when you trait for them. I do not want to have them permanent up at least not all because that would be OP.

People hate the shield which i find extremely effective in WvWvW. Two guardians timing this ability an nullify ranged damage for a very long time… well different topic

redknight.8036:

If you really think engaging a Guardian equipped with a Rifle, dropping a Wall of Reflection, using “Save Yourselves!” and “Stand your Ground!”, clad in Heavy Armor is balanced, then more power to you.

No-one is saying Rifle. Not anymore. People would be grateful for a Scepter that’s actually reliable. (And, I’ve suggested Rifle-skills that I don’t think would overly powerful in the past, but let’s not go there.)

And balance isn’t my concern. If Guardians would be really overpowered at range, revert the range changes they did in Beta. Don’t give us a semi-viable range option.

The argument isn’t: “I want to be overpowered, so give me an epic Rifle.” What people are saying is: “Sometimes (or often) I find myself at range. The options given to me aren’t good enough to be viable at range. I want to be able to do stuff while I’m at range.”

thisolderhead.5127:

Broken (not working as intended) aside, this entire topic still just results in revealing a lot of players – including some bright and skilled ones – coming across as completely clueless. Notable favorite:
“every profession should be at least viable at every role when specced into that specific role” oh – that’s adorable… so every profession (excepting perhaps warrior) in missing at least one or two builds – so slippery slope extrapolation and the whole game is broken because you don’t have a gun.

Flavour/lore wise I have a thought for the “look and feel” types – how many people out there can shoot fire out of their face, burst into flames at will, and then blink into groups of enemies (having them catch fire and die burning) would come to the conclusion that being far away, using a little toy shooter, is their tactical preference… not kittening many.

it’s not about us having guns, it’s about guardians not being able to function properly in ranged fights. man i’d be happy with a stick, if it was a good ranged weapon.

Bweaty.9187:

I’ve been playing and loving the guard after I found the necro too buggy.
Personally I like that the guard is melee, and I’d personally like to see things like ‘gsword heals work off +heal’ and some tweaks to covering ranger faster. I know necro’s get a passive movement speed sig, offhand movement speed & slow to others, movement speed trait for there [F1] Form.

Point of my story. Melee Uniqueness is nice, I’ll play one of the ranged class’s if I want to range. Just give us a tweak up so we can get/keep in range of rangers!

There is no such thing as a ranged class in gw2, all profession can work as ranged or meele, but in the case of guardians we can only work as meeles, and being forced to meele all the time even in ranged fights, is a pain in the kitten And switching to a class which is efficient at range because my guardian isn’t is just running away from the problem instead of fixing it.

Yes there are some broken skills… I still attest to the fact THAT is the problem, not the LACK of skills/tools available.

And yes – there are times a profession will be at a severe disadvantage to other professions, or the environment, or the situation – its the core principal behind asymetrical gaming and what RPGs are born from, working as intended.

thisolderhead.5127:

Yes there are some broken skills… I still attest to the fact THAT is the problem, not the LACK of skills/tools available.

And yes – there are times a profession will be at a severe disadvantage to other professions, or the environment, or the situation – its the core principal behind asymetrical gaming and what RPGs are born from, working as intended.

just broken skills? are you referring to the scepter auto attack? well you’re totally right, of they fixed the weapons auto attack that is surprisingly not usefull unless the boss is stuck to the ground would be so great. thank man, you truly are a genius. In all seriousness now, we do lack a single target, dpsing ranged weapon and i don’t think that does justice to guardians.

I am suggesting is that if they fix the broken abilities, that is in fact the ranged attacks from scepter and staff (which is ok at least, now) innability to hit anything, guardians will then have a single target DPS ranged option. Not genius, simple stuff – I’m not the first to suggest it.

That is a far cry from many other posts in some cases, such as suggestions that a new weapon that puts Guardians at the top of the single target ranged DPS needs to be introduced based on the fact we are (intentionally) balanced down in that situation.

Yes, dealing Greatsword damage.
Hitting 5 target per strike – critting too.
At 900 range. Triggering a Sigil of Fire too.
While dropping a Symbol on them and Wall of Reflection.

redknight.8036:

Yes, dealing Greatsword damage.
Hitting 5 target per strike – critting too.
At 900 range. Triggering a Sigil of Fire too.
While dropping a Symbol on them and Wall of Reflection.

Stop it. If you think it would be too strong, just throw any suggestion that could improve Guardian’s range capabilities instead of throwing unconstructive crap in this thread.
On my part, I’m not asking for melee level AoE damage at 900 range with the Staff, maybe something like Necromancer’s Staff’s skill Necrotic Grasp, that’s a totally fair thing to ask for.

redknight.8036:

Yes, dealing Greatsword damage.
Hitting 5 target per strike – critting too.
At 900 range. Triggering a Sigil of Fire too.
While dropping a Symbol on them and Wall of Reflection.

every class can do the same with a greatsword, what are you talking about?