Guild Wars 2

… with how cohesive FB is using a 130 wep and mantras, and wow, those staff buffs.

But we are, the core and DH are viable :^)

On serious, like I posted on other topic, they will make changes when they realize how bad it is, hopefully soon enough for the PoF launch.

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Remove stand your ground and it would still have an on demand stunbreak and stability to their party, still multiple sources of stability especially now with firebrand, condi clear, aegis spam and other boons ect. They would still be in a good spot and widely used.

Guard is used in pvp and pve and perform well in both.

GrahamW.5397:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Remove stand your ground and it would still have an on demand stunbreak and stability to their party, still multiple sources of stability especially now with firebrand, condi clear, aegis spam and other boons ect. They would still be in a good spot and widely used.

Guard is used in pvp and pve and perform well in both.

Firebrand has less stability, not more. Yes, the mantra is cute, but you can’t hit anything with 300 range cones, and without RF you will be blown up instantly when focused. The on-demand stun break and stability you mentioned yourself is tied to F3 that has double the cooldown for firebrand.

Guardian was unwanted in pve for the the first year of HoT and actively kicked from fractals, and has barely been viable for the second. And for those 2 years it has only 1 build, power DPS, when other classes can play condi or support.

As for pvp, it’s one of the worse classes right now.

RabbitUp.8294:

GrahamW.5397:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Remove stand your ground and it would still have an on demand stunbreak and stability to their party, still multiple sources of stability especially now with firebrand, condi clear, aegis spam and other boons ect. They would still be in a good spot and widely used.

Guard is used in pvp and pve and perform well in both.

Firebrand has less stability, not more. Yes, the mantra is cute, but you can’t hit anything with 300 range cones, and without RF you will be blown up instantly when focused. The on-demand stun break and stability you mentioned yourself is tied to F3 that has double the cooldown for firebrand.

Guardian was unwanted in pve for the the first year of HoT and actively kicked from fractals, and has barely been viable for the second. And for those 2 years it has only 1 build, power DPS, when other classes can play condi or support.

As for pvp, it’s one of the worse classes right now.

I never said it would have more stability. It would have Less but you would still have enough especially with chronos. Firebrand is strong enough in wvw to make up for the things you lose out on by taking it and can largely be covered by other classes.

Who cares about the first year of HoT? Its been more than barely viable for a long time even going back to the first year, I’ve carried many a raid on guardian especially in wing 3. There are currently 3 different Guardian builds that all do top damage on large hit boxes as well as a build thats on/near top for damage on small. I don’t think i’ve ever joined a fractal group and been kicked for being a guardian lmao.

Even if it was “one of the worst” classes in pvp, that doesn’t mean much when its still pretty kitten strong able to fight and perform well on its own or in team fights.

Guardians are in a good spot overall. You can make an argument without resorting to bold exaggerations.

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.

Fire Brand though is a different story.

No class in the game is bad enough that it’s not used at all. Discussion about balance are always about comparisons to other classes. So saying, oh well you can use guardian in pvp, when top teams don’t take guardian means nothing.

They are not 3 builds, they are same build, with be same skills and rotations. Only the traitline is different, and it has no impact to gameplay, you just exchange one % damage modifier for another.

Who cares about the first year? People who played during that time. As for the top damage, this is only the case as of 2 weeks ago, but you treat it as established history. Befire that, even power Engi was doing more damage, on an easier rotation and even had the utility of Pinpoint Distribution.

And even now, DH remains a weaker Tempest, as it has always been.

If you don’t know what was going on with guardian in fractals, then you weren’t around during the first year of HoT.

Guardians are in a good spot overall. You can make an argument without resorting to bold exaggerations.

Exaggerations like how you carried raids with your guardian?

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.

Fire Brand though is a different story.

More than half of the base profession see use in some game mode, so not that few.

RabbitUp.8294:

No class in the game is bad enough that it’s not used at all. Discussion about balance are always about comparisons to other classes. So saying, oh well you can use guardian in pvp, when top teams don’t take guardian means nothing.

They are not 3 builds, they are same build, with be same skills and rotations. Only the traitline is different, and it has no impact to gameplay, you just exchange one % damage modifier for another.

Who cares about the first year? People who played during that time. As for the top damage, this is only the case as of 2 weeks ago, but you treat it as established history. Befire that, even power Engi was doing more damage, on an easier rotation and even had the utility of Pinpoint Distribution.

And even now, DH remains a weaker Tempest, as it has always been.

If you don’t know what was going on with guardian in fractals, then you weren’t around during the first year of HoT.

Guardians are in a good spot overall. You can make an argument without resorting to bold exaggerations.

Exaggerations like how you carried raids with your guardian?

The first year isn’t a good indicator of the current state of any class. The may balance patch there were 2 different power builds for guard that did between 25k-30k dps which is perfectly viable and one which was doing 34k dps on large hitboxes which was nearly comparably to ele, probably out dpsing most pug eles tbh since no one ever hits near benchmarks. It having a near top damage build hasn’t been the case only since 2 weeks ago. The dragonhunter pull+Banish made certain encounters where you had to push/pull things trivial if you knew how to do so properly so yes it was/is entirely possible to carry groups on a guardian.

I’ve been playing consistently since almost launch, I am perfectly aware of guardians in fractals during the first year of hot and no one except for the usual groups who irrationally kick classes they perceive as “bad” ever said anything about me being on a guardian.

Again you can make arguments without resorting to exaggerations. Guardian is in a good spot, this doesn’t mean everything is perfect. Infact there are many things about guardian that I would like to see adjusted or improved but making blanket statements and things that are untrue doesn’t help anyone.

RabbitUp.8294:

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.

Fire Brand though is a different story.

More than half of the base profession see use in some game mode, so not that few.

Yes, but how many classes capable of doing 35K damage? How many classes have none elite builds viable for anything? How many classes have multiple top tier builds in sPvP and WvW?

The only other class that is this versatile is elementalist.

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.

Fire Brand though is a different story.

More than half of the base profession see use in some game mode, so not that few.

Yes, but how many classes capable of doing 35K damage? How many classes have none elite builds viable for anything? How many classes have multiple top tier builds in sPvP and WvW?

The only other class that is this versatile is elementalist.

Guardian
Base class: Used in wvw
Pve: Top tier power build (as of last patch, much weaker before that), no build* or role variety
Pvp: Usable, but definitely not a top class
Wvw: strong support build, condi build pretty much obsolete with staff nerf, mediocre roamer
(* as in power vs condi, swapping a few traitlines around, but keeping the weapons, skills, rotations and general capability of the class the same is not build variety for me)

Warrior
Base class: Not really used
Pve: Top tier damage build, meta PS build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: was weakened after the last nerfs, I don’t know how this patch affected it, let’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, strong roamer

Revenant
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: Condi dps (not truly top tier, but better than pre-patch Dh), healer/support build used primarily in w4
Pvp: about equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, good roamer

Ranger
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: strong condi build (used to be top tier, was nerfed with this patch), meta support build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamer

Engineer
Base class: All over pve
Pve: Top tier condi build, good power dps build
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamer

Thief
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: top tier condi build, strong power builds (staff DD and D/D thief)
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, probably the best roamer

Elementalist
Base class: Technically inferior to Tempest, but it can be used as dps in pve and is better than what DH used to be before the patch
Pve: Top tier condi and power builds
Pvp: Probably not top tier, Iet’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: Heavy use in zergs, good roamer

So, it seems to be the above classes are at an equal standing in a spread of different parameters. That’s 7 out of 9. All have strong dps builds, but guardian has no role variety in pve, ranger engineer and thief don’t see zerg play but can roam, revenant has 2 good builds in pve but not truly meta, and warrior doesn’t use its base class. Let’s say ele doesn’t use the base class either, but that’s only because it loses to its own spec, not other classes. So everyone has a weak point.

So, Guardian is not in any unique spot. The thing with the “good spot” meme is that people use it every time someone asks a change or buff for guardian to shut them down. Other classes of similar and in certain areas stronger power level get buffs all the time, and while guardian did get buffs recently, it has never been to the point of ranger or tempest, that got an entire new build.

You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.

RabbitUp.8294:

You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.

And this is the whole argument, people did not roll Guardian to deal DPS but because it was said to be THE support class. Anet even said it would be for those Paragon, Monk, and Ritualist players who wanted to do support.

RabbitUp.8294:

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

otto.5684:

RabbitUp.8294:

NemesiS.6749:

Guardians is in the best spot IMO among all the classes. At least from a wvw perspective core guard it still a strong build, dragonhunter can also exchange the core guard a little. You have burn guard also. I just tried firebrand and honestly i think it will be very requested for wvw, so much support and boons, with staff it will probably be among the new meta, loved it. So guard is in a good spot, all 3 are usefull, core, DH and firebrand seem liek will have its place.

Remove Stand Your Ground then come tell me about that good spot.

Also consider there’s a game outside of wvw.

Guardian is fairly strong in sPvP, PvE and WvW. In addition, it is one of the few classes where core builds actually work somewhere.

Fire Brand though is a different story.

More than half of the base profession see use in some game mode, so not that few.

Yes, but how many classes capable of doing 35K damage? How many classes have none elite builds viable for anything? How many classes have multiple top tier builds in sPvP and WvW?

The only other class that is this versatile is elementalist.

Guardian
Base class: Used in wvw
Pve: Top tier power build (as of last patch, much weaker before that), no build* or role variety
Pvp: Usable, but definitely not a top class
Wvw: strong support build, condi build pretty much obsolete with staff nerf, mediocre roamer
(* as in power vs condi, swapping a few traitlines around, but keeping the weapons, skills, rotations and general capability of the class the same is not build variety for me)

Warrior
Base class: Not really used
Pve: Top tier damage build, meta PS build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: was weakened after the last nerfs, I don’t know how this patch affected it, let’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, strong roamer

Revenant
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: Condi dps (not truly top tier, but better than pre-patch Dh), healer/support build used primarily in w4
Pvp: about equal to Guardian
Wvw: heavy use in zergs, good roamer

Ranger
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: strong condi build (used to be top tier, was nerfed with this patch), meta support build at 2 in every squad
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamer

Engineer
Base class: All over pve
Pve: Top tier condi build, good power dps build
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, strong roamer

Thief
Base class: Used in pve
Pve: top tier condi build, strong power builds (staff DD and D/D thief)
Pvp: Top tier class
Wvw: Not used in zergs, probably the best roamer

Elementalist
Base class: Technically inferior to Tempest, but it can be used as dps in pve and is better than what DH used to be before the patch
Pve: Top tier condi and power builds
Pvp: Probably not top tier, Iet’s say equal to Guardian
Wvw: Heavy use in zergs, good roamer

So, it seems to be the above classes are at an equal standing in a spread of different parameters. That’s 7 out of 9. All have strong dps builds, but guardian has no role variety in pve, ranger engineer and thief don’t see zerg play but can roam, revenant has 2 good builds in pve but not truly meta, and warrior doesn’t use its base class. Let’s say ele doesn’t use the base class either, but that’s only because it loses to its own spec, not other classes. So everyone has a weak point.

So, Guardian is not in any unique spot. The thing with the “good spot” meme is that people use it every time someone asks a change or buff for guardian to shut them down. Other classes of similar and in certain areas stronger power level get buffs all the time, and while guardian did get buffs recently, it has never been to the point of ranger or tempest, that got an entire new build.

You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.

In WvW Ranger, Engi and Thief while not used much by pug groups are actually really strong with certain builds. Druid is especially strong in a commander party combined with a mesmer to help with pinsnipe and just as a healer in general. Warriors are going to most likely see a decline amongst most organised groups until pof drops, they still do some good damage but the nerfs to their sustain hit them pretty hard. Would honestly prefer to take engis over warriors until pof.

Azoqu.8917:

RabbitUp.8294:

You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.

And this is the whole argument, people did not roll Guardian to deal DPS but because it was said to be THE support class. Anet even said it would be for those Paragon, Monk, and Ritualist players who wanted to do support.

Yeah, if i understood that correctly, that defensive spec since ANet(and their awfull balance) wanted players to be carried by damage spam capabilities,guard was getting behind, and it was always a easy target if played on defensive/support way while its support was justabout stacking some boon bots, while ANet kept bufifng other classes (buffing what was already strong in some cases).

Azoqu.8917:, people nowadays only roll for damage(main objective of the game, its not hard to get carried in some classes either), that is what this game is about… FB has the support of core on steroids plus what always laked on support, a bit of DPS, and even has CC on mantras .
Still, being “carried by damage” due the low effort gameplay gw2 has its a burst race, mesmer is good at that.. has some boons stleath / blink, kills targets very fast is all that matters.

Aeolus.3615:

Azoqu.8917:

RabbitUp.8294:

You also set the parameter for top tier dps, which for me personally is of less important and would rather have a druid/chrono tier support build than do 35k.

And this is the whole argument, people did not roll Guardian to deal DPS but because it was said to be THE support class. Anet even said it would be for those Paragon, Monk, and Ritualist players who wanted to do support.

Yeah guess what, that defensive spec since ANet(and their awfull balance) wanted players to be carried by damage spam capabilities,guard was getting behind, and it was always a easy target if played on defensive/support way while its support was justabout stacking some boon bots, while ANet kept bufifng other classes (buffing what was already strong in some cases).

Azoqu.8917:, people nowadays only roll for damage(main objective of the game, its not hard to get carried in some classes either), that is what this game is about… FB has the support of core on steroids plus what always laked on support, a bit of DPS, and even has CC on mantras .

We are talking about PVE. Look at druid or chrono to see what support means.

Guardian never had good support in pve. Aegis is bad because all attacks worth blocking are unblockable, stability is unecessary, their base healing is low and inaccessible. They are focused on defensive support, and yet they are nowhere near close to mesmer that can share invulnerability, and now scourge whose barrier absorbs even unblockable attacks.

If you think the problem with guardian support is that they lacked damage, you haven’t played pve for years.

ah yeah.. guard in pve was no existent to the date if i recall low support and low damage no trade off, must play dps roles with some relfects or for specific encounters, but that is due how pve was builted, not the class itself

Aegis on pve was always the mose anoying thing.. “let me just press skillfully on the right timming the block skill”…. burns skill and still get damage xD,even stability on some mobs they could KB..

That is how pve is builted… low skill all that needs and game forces itself for DPS keymashing, besides learn some key mob animations to dodge.. meh :\

As much dont do pve i doubt it changed.

Warrior is not wanted in wvw zergs anymore, only thing left is a banner bot in pve thats it, ok roamer vs scrubs but anyone half good will kill warrior.

Juular.4729:

Warrior is not wanted in wvw zergs anymore, only thing left is a banner bot in pve thats it, ok roamer vs scrubs but anyone half good will kill warrior.

Condi dps zerker is doing top damage, and condi PS is doing 31k, as much damage as some pure dps builds for other classes.

But sure, they are banner bot because they waste exactly 1 utility slot for a banner.

How much DPS does power DH do if they camp scepter/torch and don’t go GS.

Core guardian feels like an elite right now. I’ve been hooked on meditations and symbols for ages as it is, so Valor and Honour, with the 3rd slot being Dragonhunter for a while.

Now though, Radiance feels amazing in that 3rd slot for RHS, the torch trait and Perfect Inscriptions for the elite. So I basically take 4 meditations + the signet elite (1200 radius full heal for 5, nice after rezzing an ally or two to top them back up, or to heal npcs for 50,000 health, plus the passive is ticking otherwise).

The other things with that is it’s so trivial to hit 100% critical chance solo. Marauder gear (55% say for laziness), Fury from your meditations (20%), RHS (15%), burning foe (+10%), and there you are at 100%. Sword or scepter are both good with RHS.

Of course the hammer is also amazing even untraited.