Guild Wars 2

I have seen this pop all the time everywhere. Guardians can heal too much, too hard to kill, too op.

Let me just say that NOT ALL GUARDIANS are built for “healing”

YES, some will stack healing power, healing skills, and toughness and they WILL be crazy hard to kill, but for the love of god don’t say its OP. They sacrifice damage for survivability, not every guardian that you see will run this build.

I, for one run the power, vit, crit damage build and I cannot heal constantly I cannot survive in a battle as long as these traited guardians and that’s completely fine because I don’t like that playstyle.

so please, stop saying that guardians are “OP” because you cannot kill them instantly with your 10k crit or whatever.

You’d think the people who did the 10k crit would be the overpowered ones.

You probably could have used a different title. Most will read it and assume its a troll post.

Survivability comes in many forms… I’ve seen thieves, eles, and mesmers get out of situations you just cant ‘tank’ out of, by means of quick and easy escapes.

I build purely for toughness, vitality and boons (as much survivability and team support as possible basically so I can keep points secure) and whilst having terrible damage, my worst nightmares are the supposedly underpowered Necromancer and those nasty Mesmers. Everything else is fair game I feel, don’t feel too dominant over any other profession.

sorry for the title fellas, trying to grab everyones attention :S

sPvP Troll-of-the-Hill:

Gandalf #5, > Reflect Wall, > Shelter, > Shield Knockback, > Renewed Focus, > Apply Retaliation, > Kite the Circle, > Downed #2 Blow-back.

Do all this and watch as the 8 other players scream at you to kittendie already. Fughahahahaha!

i do think guardians are OP.

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.

I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

it’s ridicolous.

guardians, warriors, and elementalists are the golden standard of balance. they have many viable builds. every other prof needs to be like them.

Mrbig, quantify ‘hit like a truck’ being a couple thousand isnt really large.

I don’t think the thread’s title is gonna help your cause, haha.
In any case, people don’t understand that you can not both be super tanky and do high damage.
They simply assume that we somehow magically keep this tankyness (is that even a word?) when we go for full out damage and I’m not sure why that is.

Keelin.5781:

They simply assume that we somehow magically keep this tankyness (is that even a word?) when we go for full out damage and I’m not sure why that is.

Hypothesis: People go into PvP and see Guardians that just won’t go down (as they seem to be the more popular builds), thus they associate Guardians with “tanks”. Later they come across Guardians who put out sustained crit-damage (it’s the only damage build I know). Their mind go: “Wait, but Guardians are tanks, why is he doing so much damage?”
I don’t think people see individuals when talking about profession damage.

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

Guardian is tied for the lowest HP with Thief at 10,805.

They don’t have OP survivability. If anything, their survivability is about average.

Also, toughness makes less of a difference than vitality.

Krathalos.3461

Guardian is tied for the lowest HP with Thief at 10,805.
They don’t have OP survivability. If anything, their survivability is about average.
Also, toughness makes less of a difference than vitality.

Finally, a voice of reason.

If you want to be a survivable guardian, you want to stack vitality and healing. Just saying.

(This is statistically because of the way toughness/defence is normally coded into games. Unless GW2 has coded defence differently, then it’s almost exclusively the case that HP will be better than the toughness will.
In effect, if you had 1000 extra vit, you would be able to take MORE HITS than if you had 1000 extra toughness.)

If you wanted to go for the super-tank guardian, you’d stack healing power, vitality and toughness. I did this once and it’s pretty easy to survive two people hard-nuking you provided you time everything properly to block (three aegis minimum) and stat so that shouts and what have you also heal on use.
Of course, just because you can survive those people, you also won’t kill them.

So… it’s not OP at all. Those tough-as-nails-to-kill survivable guardians are never going to kill other players on their own because they won’t have the power to do so. They’ll always be running support.

And if I run at you with my greatsword, stated with vit/power/condi damage, I’m going to be twice as easy to kill as the support guardian because while I can hit like a truck and generally have a high HP pool, I’m just not going to have the combined healing power and vitality to out-heal the damage I take.

Simple really. People who claim guardians are OP just never actually played one.

Snort.3698:

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

No need to screenshot, this is my build ( the tooltip is a little wrong, since i have less critical chance and power, and more armor, but whatever it can give you the overall idea.).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQRAse7dlYgaDnGyKEm4Eh1DCeQ/hVgjXPgIFbIA;TwAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1siYExWkpIA

Hit like a truck, 45 % crit chance, 3k+ toughness.

You can remove valor traits and put them into zeal and virtues to make it a spirit weapon build with 2.8k+ toughness.

The guardian is like the most OP class currently along with the mesmer. SERIOUSLY.

This is replying to an argument that hasn’t been made… Reply to arguments, don’t pluck them out of thin air. If you see this argument being made somewhere, reply to it there.

Complaints like this are nothing new. It’s the same people that complained that healers were hard to kill and thus OP in other games because (surprise!), healer’s are built to survive and help others survive. Those are the dumb people complaining that survivability/support spec Guardian’s are OP. It’s perfectly balanced because surviving and supporting is all they can do – they’ll never kill you. It’s a tradeoff but it tends tokitten people off when they have a hard time killing people so they cry OP. As long as ArenaNet doesn’t nerf it like other games have done, let them QQ.

Mrbig.8019:

Snort.3698:

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

No need to screenshot, this is my build ( the tooltip is a little wrong, since i have less critical chance and power, and more armor, but whatever it can give you the overall idea.).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQRAse7dlYgaDnGyKEm4Eh1DCeQ/hVgjXPgIFbIA;TwAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1siYExWkpIA

Hit like a truck, 45 % crit chance, 3k+ toughness.

You can remove valor traits and put them into zeal and virtues to make it a spirit weapon build with 2.8k+ toughness.

The guardian is like the most OP class currently along with the mesmer. SERIOUSLY.

Armor =/= Toughness. Major difference. Using a shield instead of a Focus or a Torch is also hurting you. That said, your build is fairly solid if you support it with the right gear. I wouldn’t use this as an example of why the “Guardian is OP,” which I disagree with in any case. Versatile is a better word in my opinion.

Maximilious.6054:

I have seen this pop all the time everywhere. Guardians can heal too much, too hard to kill, too op.

Let me just say that NOT ALL GUARDIANS are built for “healing”

YES, some will stack healing power, healing skills, and toughness and they WILL be crazy hard to kill, but for the love of god don’t say its OP. They sacrifice damage for survivability, not every guardian that you see will run this build.

I, for one run the power, vit, crit damage build and I cannot heal constantly I cannot survive in a battle as long as these traited guardians and that’s completely fine because I don’t like that playstyle.

so please, stop saying that guardians are “OP” because you cannot kill them instantly with your 10k crit or whatever.

I think the issue is when they DO go defensive build, they can sit on a point in sPvP and just not die from between forever to as little 5+ minutes, often against multiple attackers.

The link to that build doesnt work for me

Guardian tanking in sPvP is problematic. It’s like how everyone used only paladins as flag defenders in arathi basin back in the day…except guardian doesn’t rely on a long cooldown bubble, they can keep that survivability going almost indefinitely.

Let’s not lose sight of tactics or the lack thereof. So there is a heavy defensive guardian on a node, so what? There are two other nodes to be capped and often other objectives. no team is going to win because of the ONE node they possess. Also, tons of classes have knockbacks. No guardian can keep stability up indefinately, even the defensive shout based defender. Instead of worrying about killing them, worry about getting them off the node so it can be capped or at least put into contention. Let us also not forget that boons can be stripped, just ask a necro.

The devs have done a really good job in this game balancing things out overall. I seriously hope they don’t mess it up due to a bunch of whiners that don’t want to actually learn to play but would rather face roll their keyboards to win.

Yukishiro.8792:

Guardian tanking in sPvP is problematic. It’s like how everyone used only paladins as flag defenders in arathi basin back in the day…except guardian doesn’t rely on a long cooldown bubble, they can keep that survivability going almost indefinitely.

not true. guardian are crumble under any decent condition/boon removal build. their area denial abilities are on long CD’s

All the armor in the world doesn’t help against the oh-so-popular condition dps builds in sPvP. With our lower than average hp pool its very easy to build up a few to many DoTs and hit the ground fast. That being said any truly tanky guardian probably isn’t putting out a ton of damage most of the time and can be overwhelmed by a few high damage attackers even if they aren’t condition based.

nerva.7940:

guardians, warriors, and elementalists are the golden standard of balance. they have many viable builds. every other prof needs to be like them.

Elementalist are the most underpowered class in the game right now….we work twice as hard to achieve the same result, sometimes worse. We can only run certain builds if we want to do well because many are just not up to par.

Animus.6073:

Mrbig.8019:

Snort.3698:

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

No need to screenshot, this is my build ( the tooltip is a little wrong, since i have less critical chance and power, and more armor, but whatever it can give you the overall idea.).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQRAse7dlYgaDnGyKEm4Eh1DCeQ/hVgjXPgIFbIA;TwAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1siYExWkpIA

Hit like a truck, 45 % crit chance, 3k+ toughness.

You can remove valor traits and put them into zeal and virtues to make it a spirit weapon build with 2.8k+ toughness.

The guardian is like the most OP class currently along with the mesmer. SERIOUSLY.

Armor =/= Toughness. Major difference. Using a shield instead of a Focus or a Torch is also hurting you. That said, your build is fairly solid if you support it with the right gear. I wouldn’t use this as an example of why the “Guardian is OP,” which I disagree with in any case. Versatile is a better word in my opinion.

I have the focus. Torch has less utility than a shield, plus you would have no interrupts to block enemy heals.

I’ve tried it in cap defenses in torunament, and it’s like the most overpowered thing a guardian would ever achieve: very good damage, great survivability, great group support.

Not only that, it’s also unkillable in 1vs1, if well played.

I believe people tend to underrate the guardian because they don’t know hot to build them, and because the death log only shows the “LULZ 15 K HUNDERED BLADS, WAR IS DA OP”, while the warrior is like one of the most useless classes in PvP, unless shout heavy.

@ other people

Conditions are bad for the guardian ? only if you make them hurt you. Contemplation of purity, passive on signet of resolve, smite condition etc.

Do an offensive shout guardian, then come back here.

guardians have WAY too much survivability. this is a joke, and i expect guardians to get nerfed big time. guardians are near unkillable and in tournaments, you cannot spend precious time 1v1ing a stupid guardian on their point because you will likely never kill him and ur just wasting your time letting the other team win because the guardian will keep it capped.

Yeah, I run Power+toughness+healing power on my gear and mix power+vit+crit damage and Power+toughness+healing power on my jewelry and mix some vit and healing power into my weapons.

I’ve got good defense, higher vit than toughness surprisingly, and a ton of healing power. It helps keep me alive and helps with my aoe heals. But it really hurts my damage output.

The thing that sucks though is you really kind of have to do that. Your base health and such is SO incredibly low, that if we do try to build for damage, we are the squishiest thing youd ever see. and our utilities dont lend themselves well to damage and offense. So honestly a lot of that toughness and vit, and healing power I am stacking is just to make up for the complete lack of those stats I get to begin with.

That’s basically how I see it atm. I just stack the defense and just play to my strengths, it’s what im good at. If I go for damage, I get crushed and can’t do anything.

Of course this is from a WvW perspective, where not many can really do melee, and our ranged options are so so so horrible. I hate the scepter and the staff doesn’t have enough range. In PvE, I can do damage just great. Not quite as well as a warrior, who has utilities and elites that just give him like permanent 25 stacks of might and fury, but respectable enough.

Bloodyx.5946:

Guardians have WAY too much survivability. This is a joke, and I expect Guardians to get nerfed big time. Guardians are near unkillable and in tournaments, you cannot spend precious time 1v1ing a stupid Guardian on their point because you will likely never kill him and you’re just wasting your time letting the other team win because the Guardian will keep it capped.

Here are a couple of tips:
- Bring to players with a damage focused build. Start hitting the Guardian about a bit until he has used his heal and most other defensive options. Then burn the redacted out of him.
- Keep a distance and shoot the Guardian with one of your ranged weapons. Even in the case he’s packing a Scepter, you will be at an advantage and the Guardian either has to leave his point (giving you to opportunity to cap it) or die slowly.
- Just use pushes and other forced movement to get the Guardian of the point.
- On Battle for Kyhlo: just trebuchet the Guardian to death.

A defensive Guardian will never kill you, unless you let him. Use that knowledge to your advantage.

Its amazing how people want to poke n kill every one, so that lead into emo rages, as Ynna says use your head…

its my impressioin or is the forum full of Q.Q?

Ynna.8769:

A defensive Guardian will never kill you, unless you let him. Use that knowledge to your advantage.

This by a million. By a million.

You all sit there and whine “BUT THEY SIT ON POOOOIIINTS” as if there wasn’t another two points for you to go and capture, and as if this meant that that team was down one player for every time you encounter them. And if you’re on Kyhlo and you aren’t using the treb to kill that guardian – which you will assuming he doesn’t turn and run away first – then you have absolutely no excuses when you come in here and sob about how “OP” we apparently are.

If I trait for vit and toughness and healing, you are never going to kill me 1v1. It’s true.

I’m also probably never going to kill you.

If you aren’t smart enough to say “Well boy this 1vs1 isn’t going anywhere, I’m going to help my team capture a different point and you can stand here on your own until I come back with two more people to push you off the point or outright kill you” then it is your fault that you’re that dumb. Not mine.

Because I will happily dance 1vs1 (and maybe 1vs2 if I get lucky and am playing well) until the timer counts down to 0. If you were too dumb to find something else to do that can kill me easily (and three nukers/treb can easily push me off a point, if not kill me assuming one of you is a necro and get rid of all my wonderful boons) then you are going to think I’m OP.
And I’m just going to think you’re a little bit dim.

Should we lose that survivability we would get damage proportionally and you’d cry we kill you “because a Guardian is not supposed to kill but to defend”.
But if we can defend well then survivability is OP?
Either way you’d see us as OP.

Guardian is supposed to be – duh – very good at guarding stuff.
Removing our ability to guard is like removing Thief’s ability to stealth or Warrior’s ability to deal damage.

It’s just nonsense that a defensive Guardian shouldn’t be hard to kill sorry, especially since an offensive one is pretty glassy.

Compared to a necromancer’s dps healing specced guardians do still too much dps. However, the reason is more a combination of horrible design, tons of bugs, absence of any minion AI and simply not working traits (it is golden when corrupt boon doesn’t work…except for the self-poisoning part).

Elementalists seem to be sitting in the same boat.

However, these classes and pet/minion AI should just be fixed and skills get buffed up to the level of other classes instead of nerfing them (maybe reduce some of the burst of some classes somewhat). Then I think the game is pretty much fine.

Mrbig.8019:

Snort.3698:

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

No need to screenshot, this is my build ( the tooltip is a little wrong, since i have less critical chance and power, and more armor, but whatever it can give you the overall idea.).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQRAse7dlYgaDnGyKEm4Eh1DCeQ/hVgjXPgIFbIA;TwAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1siYExWkpIA

Hit like a truck, 45 % crit chance, 3k+ toughness.

You can remove valor traits and put them into zeal and virtues to make it a spirit weapon build with 2.8k+ toughness.

The guardian is like the most OP class currently along with the mesmer. SERIOUSLY.

no gems gives pow-vit-tough :S? are you mixing fighter,soldier,guardian?
link doesn’t work
and you surely mean 3+ armor not toughness -,- big difference..
and heal with shouts you mean “applying a boon to allies heals you” ?

Red Falcon.8257:

Should we lose that survivability we would get damage proportionally and you’d cry we kill you “because a Guardian is not supposed to kill but to defend”.
But if we can defend well then survivability is OP?
Either way you’d see us as OP.

Guardian is supposed to be – duh – very good at guarding stuff.
Removing our ability to guard is like removing Thief’s ability to stealth or Warrior’s ability to deal damage.

It’s just nonsense that a defensive Guardian shouldn’t be hard to kill sorry, especially since an offensive one is pretty glassy.

Completely agree with this!

Mrbig.8019:

Snort.3698:

@mrbig

Go 30 radiance, pick up your + 15 % crit with main hand sword, get pow-vit-tough gear.
I hit like a truck, heal with shouts, 3.2 k toughness.

err 3.2k toughness?

screenshot it.

No need to screenshot, this is my build ( the tooltip is a little wrong, since i have less critical chance and power, and more armor, but whatever it can give you the overall idea.).

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fUAQRAse7dlYgaDnGyKEm4Eh1DCeQ/hVgjXPgIFbIA;TwAA1CnoqxUjoGbNuak1siYExWkpIA

Hit like a truck, 45 % crit chance, 3k+ toughness.

You can remove valor traits and put them into zeal and virtues to make it a spirit weapon build with 2.8k+ toughness.

The guardian is like the most OP class currently along with the mesmer. SERIOUSLY.

people say this a lot i don’t understand why. Toughness and armor rateing are different…
when you say you have 3k toughness, you confuse people when you really mean you have 3k+ armor ( witch acts like toughness, and adds to your armor) but your toughness is not really 3k because well it cant be done atm in GW2. in spvp the most you could have is 2.3kish if you go balls crazy and kitten your stats.

and hell as long as we are talking about ARMOR in WvW i got 3.4k armor its like (2199 toughness) 45% crit and and 3.3k attack (its like 2189 power) at 17.5k hp my wvw stats blow my spvp stats away ….. stupid spvp amulets