Guild Wars 2

Hi! So I’m an incredibly casual player, hopping on for two weeks or so every couple of months. Last I played was pre-raid release.

As I do not have much time to play I have relied on sites like metabattle to help me with builds and selecting stats for my lone set of ascended gear. I have not played since Raids came out as I was waiting on the community finding Guard ‘s proper niche in a raid, but now months later there’s still nothing on metabattle for Raids for guardians.

Are guards that bad in Raids? Are there any currently acceptable builds for raiding as a guard?

Thank you to anyone who takes the time to reply to this career newb!

Bad not really.

Its just that everything a guardian can do is done better by an engineer, ele or rev & those classes can do allot more dps, provide allot more CC (especially in former twos case) and bring other things like passive run speed, reveals etc…

You gonna hear people at each extreme here probably. Some people say that there is no reason whatsoever to take a guardian in raid, they are useless, etc, etc. You also gonna hear people that say that guardian are fine, there is not problem with guardian in raid.

The truth is Guardian don’t bring anything to raid that other profession can’t bring better. The strength of the Guardian were always the defensive support they bring : protection, aegis, condi removal, projectile defense, blind, etc.

Blind is useless on raid boss since they are immune to it. There is no condition to remove in raids. There is almost zero projectile to defense against. The Herald can provide the protection just like the guardian. And finally Aegis isn’t as good as before because there is a lot of small attacks in raids to push for a healer, making aegis only stopping a very small portions of the attacks that gonna hits you.

But you still have role to fill in for the raid. You want PS Warrior for might, Heralds for fury and cc, 1 healers, chronomancer for quickness/alacrity, condition at VG, etc, etc. In the end you usually end up with only 1-2 free spot for only dps and that’s where you can put a Guardian. But it’s for dps, so even if he can fit there, a DH meta build will only does 15-17k dps, compare to a Tempest which can reach 24k dps.

You can also use a guardian as a Tank. For VG, it’s actually a good tank IMO. Not as good as a chronotank, but it does the job very well. My team use a DH tank at VG (1st boss) since day one and we have no problem whatsoever with it. At Gorseval (2nd boss), it’s a bit trickier tbh. You need a lot more dps and CC at Gorseval so usually people want a Condi Scrapper or a Chronotank at that boss, but it would still be possible with a DH.

So ya, DH is just fine for raids.

Here one video per boss when the group is using Guardian and you can see that they don’t have much problem. The first one is 10 Guardian so there were a bit short on DPS. The main problem is that since it’s not one of the best choice, pugs just don’t want to raid with them. Why would they, there is like 10 other dudes with Tempest or Condi Engineer right next to the Guardian so there is no reason for them to take you instead of the Tempest. So if you gonna pug, you probably gonna have a very very hard time finding groups. So your best option are play another profession in raids, find a group or accept that you won’t find a raid team each night you are searching.

Be discriminated by class and gear for this poorly designed raid
….or do better things with my game time? hmmm choices.
Anet doesn’t know gw2 anymore. Dungeons were never like that, neither were world bosses.

Anet needs to remember GW2 has been more about employing mechanics. Hitting switches, carrying bombs, doing a combination of acts to perform a thing.

Not having the right crew to fill a meta should not even be a thing.
That is the biggest mistake and resembles WoW ideas behind raiding.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Bad not really.

Its just that everything a guardian can do is done better by an engineer, ele or rev & those classes can do allot more dps, provide allot more CC (especially in former twos case) and bring other things like passive run speed, reveals etc…

well after the nerfs rev apprantly is getting replaced now, apprantly the pve impact was huge for them with the nerfs

but no, mainly this, guardian is all around pretty strong, the issue is as time as progressed proffessions have seen more focus’d and specialised options which provide the role much stronger then the guardian does.

it isn’t that guardians arnt capable or their DPS is that far behind other proffessions its just we arnt specialized, we don’t have that nicht to demand us, hopefully if a-net keep up with the trait changes, hopefully we will see a nicht at some point but currently, it isn’t impossible but i’d be hard to find a PuG that would not replace you with one of those proffessions mentioned before.

Guardians have very little sustained damage which is the main problem throughout honestly, if they sort it a guardian could maybe get into a raid as a DPS, but I doubt they ever will for PvP reasoning, no matter how much they nerf traps (half our burst Output)

Nethod.7068:

Be discriminated by class and gear for this poorly designed raid
….or do better things with my game time? hmmm choices.
Anet doesn’t know gw2 anymore. Dungeons were never like that, neither were world bosses.

Anet needs to remember GW2 has been more about employing mechanics. Hitting switches, carrying bombs, doing a combination of acts to perform a thing.

Not having the right crew to fill a meta should not even be a thing.
That is the biggest mistake and resembles WoW ideas behind raiding.

Exactly this @ArenaNet – this guy got it right!

Mortifer.2946:

Nethod.7068:

Be discriminated by class and gear for this poorly designed raid
….or do better things with my game time? hmmm choices.
Anet doesn’t know gw2 anymore. Dungeons were never like that, neither were world bosses.

Anet needs to remember GW2 has been more about employing mechanics. Hitting switches, carrying bombs, doing a combination of acts to perform a thing.

Not having the right crew to fill a meta should not even be a thing.
That is the biggest mistake and resembles WoW ideas behind raiding.

Exactly this @ArenaNet – this guy got it right!

Thanks.

I am a guard main and still to this day I struggle to get into a VG group and actually finish it.

Obviously I went for the tank position and still tried to squeeze out most of the DPS I can do with the obligatory Toughness you need to get (as much DPS as you can do with Guard anyway)

The speed of sound is nothing against the speed of the people who ask me to switch to a Tempest or Condi Engi.

And thus I get moved back to the LFG queue which is by far the worst thing. You can wait a day to get eventually picked. Of course I could look for guilds but those guilds who accept DHs as Tanks for VG or maybe Gorseval (which I didnt even see yet), yea those Guilds already have their Tankspots or Raidgroups closed and good luck getting into one. Plus those who accept you are very friendly, thank you, but then they all run Toughness and complain why I cant hold aggro.

3000 hours dropped in my main and people just raise their eyebrows. Who to thank?

darghe.3072:

3000 hours dropped in my main and people just raise their eyebrows. Who to thank?

3k hours?

I can relate

2K++ hours on my guardian out of 2400. Playing Guild Wars 2 is playing as a guardian for me. ArenaNet should respect that and they should never create situations when I am forced not to be myself – a guardian.

I find that Guardian tank for VG is better for less experienced groups. I found a build that hits as much as a zerker guardian while keeping up 25might stacks with the help of 1 herald. Also giving really nice passive healing to take off burden off the healer.

For Gorseval on the other hand, I haven’t really test it much since he’s a real DPS wall. On Sabetha, protection is always nice during the last, very hectic phase. They are very useful for Eternal runs too.

darghe.3072:

I am a guard main and still to this day I struggle to get into a VG group and actually finish it.

Obviously I went for the tank position and still tried to squeeze out most of the DPS I can do with the obligatory Toughness you need to get (as much DPS as you can do with Guard anyway)

The speed of sound is nothing against the speed of the people who ask me to switch to a Tempest or Condi Engi.

And thus I get moved back to the LFG queue which is by far the worst thing. You can wait a day to get eventually picked. Of course I could look for guilds but those guilds who accept DHs as Tanks for VG or maybe Gorseval (which I didnt even see yet), yea those Guilds already have their Tankspots or Raidgroups closed and good luck getting into one. Plus those who accept you are very friendly, thank you, but then they all run Toughness and complain why I cant hold aggro.

3000 hours dropped in my main and people just raise their eyebrows. Who to thank?

Jezzz pugs are bad. We kill VG with a guardian as a tanks every week. DPS is not the reason why you can’t kill VG, it’s bad players not able to complete the mechanics.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

eithedog.4678:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

This is amazing news! Even though I won’t get the spot of tank, I can still get in as DPS/support.

eithedog.4678:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

Is this really a build that’s meta lol?

Also how does it beat GS?

Also, does your Aegis Healing work on yourself only, or others?

I’ve never heard of a Hammer build being top damage, ever.

hammer isnt better damage but it’s perma protection

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

eithedog.4678:

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_DPS/Support

Considering his rotation is only hammer AA his secondary weapon is completely open. Having a weapon that can produce a symbol on demand is helpful but even then GS or longbow could easily fit into this slot.

True, he can change trade self defense + regen and heal and knockback for GS or LB…. I would say rather GS because of skills 2 3 and 5….. it all depends on the party composition

To be honest, bringing a guardian to pug group makes it a little bit easier. The amount of people actually thinking they can play well but sucking kitten is way to high. Guardians make it a bit easier with the perma protection, extra group heal and aegis (which is a godsend at gorseval stomps since that’s where most pugs just suck at).

Mortifer.2946:

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

That is horsekitten.

Rev lost 10% from sword but gained a boost to sword #2. Damage loss is probably a 5% if less if you use a flawless rotation now and are mindful of your energy.

Revs are not affected by the aclarity nerf. You mean to tell me hammer guard is magically above rev and ele post patch? LOL!

Hunter.4783:

Mortifer.2946:

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

That is horsekitten.

Rev lost 10% from sword but gained a boost to sword #2. Damage loss is probably a 5% if less if you use a flawless rotation now and are mindful of your energy.

Revs are not affected by the aclarity nerf. You mean to tell me hammer guard is magically above rev and ele post patch? LOL!

According to some wiser players than me, yes it is, if you are comparing it with revenant that keeps up group protection.

@Hunter: Or guardian hammer wasn’t properly tested long enough to give it accurate damage results previously.

Mortifer.2946:

Hunter.4783:

Mortifer.2946:

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

That is horsekitten.

Rev lost 10% from sword but gained a boost to sword #2. Damage loss is probably a 5% if less if you use a flawless rotation now and are mindful of your energy.

Revs are not affected by the aclarity nerf. You mean to tell me hammer guard is magically above rev and ele post patch? LOL!

According to some wiser players than me, yes it is, if you are comparing it with revenant that keeps up group protection.

It doesn’t matter, whether you upkeep fury might or fury protection gives you exactly the same thing as a rev. Remember you are hopping back and forth between legends.

If you upkeep protection and nature you will find protection last just about the entire time you are in dwarf.

Your rotations will be the same;! I don’t see how it’s lower than guard tbh

Hunter.4783:

Mortifer.2946:

Hunter.4783:

Mortifer.2946:

According to the tests of the CURATOR of guardian for PVE section on metabattle, it has the third best sustained DPS among all professions that actually beats burst DPS of GS/LB guardian. It is a completely new build made possible post 26th patch because of the nerfs of other classes. I get the scepticism, but this guy knows what he is saying. Also, he mentioned he will make some spread sheets so he can present the actual damage.

That is horsekitten.

Rev lost 10% from sword but gained a boost to sword #2. Damage loss is probably a 5% if less if you use a flawless rotation now and are mindful of your energy.

Revs are not affected by the aclarity nerf. You mean to tell me hammer guard is magically above rev and ele post patch? LOL!

According to some wiser players than me, yes it is, if you are comparing it with revenant that keeps up group protection.

It doesn’t matter, whether you upkeep fury might or fury protection gives you exactly the same thing as a rev. Remember you are hopping back and forth between legends.

If you upkeep protection and nature you will find protection last just about the entire time you are in dwarf.

Your rotations will be the same;! I don’t see how it’s lower than guard tbh

I’m sorry, I’m not a person to answer this question. If it were on me, I would scrap the whole revenant thingy and go back to classic guild wars 2.

Hunter.4783:

It doesn’t matter, whether you upkeep fury might or fury protection gives you exactly the same thing as a rev. Remember you are hopping back and forth between legends.

If you upkeep protection and nature you will find protection last just about the entire time you are in dwarf.

Your rotations will be the same;! I don’t see how it’s lower than guard tbh

In theory yes but Sword #2 don’t work well at all. In theory you should always be able to hit the 3 projectiles on the boss, but you can’t really stay inside the boss at all time. Gorseval and yourself will move a lot too much for that, while Sabetha will give you a very short window on the flame wall to get the hell out. The canons will also hit the middle of Sabetha, meaning that it,s really hard for an herald to stay alive if he try to stay inside Sabetha for the whole fight. Even when there is no alts near you, the sword #2 can bug. Sometime at Gorseval a projectile will go at the wall on the other side of the arena and you will have a message of out of range, dropping you dps.

There is also the problem of energy. With Protection, Fury, Facet of Nature and Regen (because no herald would put himself in a situation where he can’t use his heal skill), you will empty your energy in about 11 second, so you can swap your legend with no problem. But if you need to add the Sword #2 which also cost energy, then you end up with an energy problem. You run out of energy before you can swap your legend, which drop your dps and your buffing capability.

That’s why most herald now can’t keep all of that like they could before. They need to sacrifice something. Either their protection or their dps.

From what I know, you do around 21k dps as an Herald as a theorical maximum. I don’t know what is the dps in-game, but it’s less than 21k for sure. So ya for sure if they are right and DH reach 23k as peak dps, then Herald does less than DH.

Myeah, people saying that Revs are fine because #2 was buffed don’t understand how Revs work(ed). Everything is/was balanced about maximizing buff uptime and once energy ran out the legend swapping would fill it up again.

If Revs use #2 when energy will run out much early than the legend swap CD leaving them back at autoattacking and no longer providing buffs.

This nerf is like the random nerf chronos got when their whole thing was a balancing act with alacrity and quickness. Alacrity got nerfed, but their CDs remained the same.